Attached to the front of this months MOJO is a free cd compiled by the Davies Brothers of deep cuts to support The Kinks 60th anniversary. Now now that is some achievement and certainly worthy of a mention or two in our beloved music press.
However personally – with the glorious exception of the sublime Waterloo Sunset – I just don’t understand the appeal of this band and the standing they have in the pop pantheon (other than longevity). Over the years I’ve heard quite a lot of their stuff but it nearly always leaves me cold.
So this thread is about the bands or artists that may be critically quite lauded but leave you puzzled; not the ones you simply don’t like. So those of you about to kick off about Steps or Westlife – stand down!
Would be good if one or two of those with the opposite view could try and convince the doubters of the errors of their ways.
I’m with you, Feedbacker – I bought the same issue and was underwhelmed with the music on the disc. Yet I do find a handful of Ray’s songs/recordings with the Kinks to be unusually powerful, in terms of embedding themselves in one’s mind – ‘Waterloo Sunset’ and ‘Sunny Afternoon’ spring to mind, maybe ‘Days’ as well. There is something bigger than the sum of the parts about them. Often the Kinks recordings – certainly in the 60s – were, to my ears, ramshackle and amateurish sounding. The acoustic guitar sound especially I find unattractive. But as I said, Ray’s narratives occasionally override the shoggliness of the presentation. To me, the Kinks – like King Crimson – are much more interesting to read about than listen to.
My pet dislike among lauded acts is Steely Dan – I’m fed up with people extolling their apparent genius. Muso bores.
Ray Davies is second (maybe better than that) only to Lennon and McCartney for writing genius in the 60s. Dozens of classic tracks. The recording quality and production isn’t as good as the Fabs but the songs are peerless
As for stuff I don’t get that would include most (British) folk and pretty much all prog, but I assume that is just because I have excellent taste 😉
@dai I think I have the same view as you. The kinks are brilliant. I have a problem with some British Folk especially Martin Carthy’s voice and also with some prog ie Emerson Lake and bloody Palmer and Yes from Topographic Oceans onwards.
I love British (particularly English) folk but struggle with Richard Thompson’s voice and rarely listen to his stuff by choice. Martin Carthy is beloved by everyone, not least because he seems to be a truly lovely bloke who has dedicated his life to folk music with little reward. He literally deserves a knighthood. But I also find his voice cloying.
Commented earlier on Richard below. Martin – hear hear. I met him once after my wife and I saw him do a gig with the late lamented Swarb, and later corresponded with him a bit on Facebook for some research I was doing. He couldn’t have been more helpful – answered my questions at once in some depth and with delightful, good-humoured self-deprecation. You’ve only got to read some of his interviews to get the measure of him. A real gentleman if ever there was one.
I always like it when the late Dave Swarbrick is referred to as “Swarb”.
It’s a tremendous nickname.
He should have joined The Strawbs.
I agree with @dai
I think the Kinks are one of the greatest bands of all time bar none
Even now after listening for so long I find nuggets on obscure 70s albums no one bought
Currently Schoolboys in Disgrace
Lennon-McCartney, Jagger-Richard(s) were the giants of the 60s, but in both cases there were two of them. Ray Davies did it all on his own, which makes him arguably the greatest British songwriter of the rock era bar none. There are absolute diamonds on most Kinks albums. From the early 70s alone, take ‘Celluloid Heroes’ and ‘Sweet Lady Genevieve’, to name but two. And when it comes to complete albums, ‘Village Green Preservation Society’ and the often overlooked ‘Muswell Hillbillies’ as albums rather than one or two cherry-picked tracks will surely take your breath away. They failed to set the charts alight, I suspect, because the marketing folks at Pye and RCA were either on holiday or just weren’t up to their job. As for ‘don’t gets’, Prince, The Smiths and Depeche Mode would be at the top of my list.To chilli ray virus above, yes Richard Thompson’s voice is a bit of an acquired taste, but his multi-instrumental skills are astonishing and he is for me another of the most gifted songwriters of all time. ‘The Dimming of the Day’ and ‘A Poisoned Heart and a Twisted Memory’ (with a passionate vocal performance to match) – say no more, just listen.
Bruce Springsteen, Elvis Costello, Joni Mitchell, Paul Simon (S&G exempted). Too wordy? Not just bands right?
Joni Mitchell too wordy? Good grief. Such words. Nowhere near enough of them. Paul Simon the same? Have you no soul?
It’s a thread for acts you don’t get. It’s not that you don’t see the merit, as has already been stated, more that it doesn’t work for you. This is art. It’s not rational or objective. There are many who feel like me about these artists.
I like Joni Mitchell. In many ways the Taylor Swift of her generation, albeit with fewer bops.
You’re very brave 😏
There’s another one with her fancy words.
Agree with all of those Diddley
Can appreciate all but no love.
Bruce has some good songs but not melodic enough for me. And his awful autobiography put me right off
Elvis Costello is too clever by half. Classic song constructions, clever lyrics, but dull. Again, write some melodies
Joni I can’t be doing with the voice. Sorry
Paul Simon solo has some excellent moments but missing Artie
Nice to know I’m not alone. I have bought secondhand vinyl of all a few years ago. No longer played after a few times. They remain glued to the shelves. For reasons you give among others. I am averse to lyric heavy songs although Dylan and Cohen are exceptions. OK Cohen I don’t listen to so much. I’m Your Man is the one I like, Everybody Knows, brilliant.
Just reading Bruce’s autobiography now. I think it’s pretty good so far…what did you find awful about it?
It was the section when he congratulated himself at length for making his own kids breakfast. as if he deserved a medal
It’s funny I admire him as a person but the book was a big let down. Funny how some autobio turn out a lot less interesting than you expect. See also Debbie Harry
Yeah, I must say I was a bit underwhelmed with Harry’s Face To Face, found it too insouciant and unengaging. Re: Bruce, I’m still at the Steel Mill period, but would surmise that he’s so proud of doing something for his children because he was over-indulged and (s)mothered as a son and grandson.
Ditto, but I did find a Blondie book worth a read. By Kris Needs, I think. I could check, but it’s on the shelf in the garage and I’m still in my jim-jams.
I’m currently reading Bruce’s memoirs and quite enjoying them. Haven’t read Debbie’s. I also liked Bernie Marsden’s Where’s my Guitar, but out of what I’ve come across recently, Roger Daltrey’s Thanks a lot Mr Kibblewhite takes top prize. Very funny in parts, self-deprecating and warm-hearted, yet serious when it needs to be. I always admired him as a person and finished it liking him even more. Pete Townshend’s Who I Am is interesting as well, but if it came to a choice of meeting one of them in the pub, Roger would definitely be mine.
Interesting enough recollecting his early life and his determination to succeed.
It gets very dull in the last one third, I thought. Once he’d become what he now is. The book becomes a bit of a slog.
The gist of the tale had been told by then and it was just gigs and albums followed by more gigs and more albums ad nauseam. Many chapters that could have easily been condensed into just a few.
I have it but haven’t read it. Funnily enough I have read the opposite criticism that he should spend more time on particular albums. Guess you can’t please everyone
It often seems to be a case of the more interesting the musician, the duller the autobiog – E Costello, P Townshend and N Young being three classic examples
I’ve written on here before about listening to Joni Mitchell’s Blue in its entirety every day for a week and being unable to remember a single melody or lyric at the end of it.
You must recall River, surely? Carey?
Do you want the full list of bands/artists I just don’t get, or the highlights?
Actually “don’t get” is not always the correct term. I fully “get” Bruce Springsteen’s appeal. It just doesn’t work for me. Ditto Depeche Mode, The “no hits” Clash, REM and any number of the jangly, angsty guitar combos that get sky-high praise here.
I completely understand that whatever the musical sound you like, there will be some very efficient practitioners to be heard. It’s just that a lot of them don’t appeal to me. I won’t waste my time trying to like stuff that I know I don’t.
Metal, as a genre, leaves me cold. Right from it’s late ’60s gestation I Haven’t been able to get past the pomp and bombast of it. The reverence shown towards Deep Purple is particularly baffling.
Prog, with a few exceptions, because mostly it no longer has anything to do with musical progression. It just sounds like itself, over and over.
Punk is nearly 50 years old. Getting on a bit. A lot of the original punks are now pensionersand too tired out for rebellion. Punk can be very effective as a musical palate cleanser if done well, though.
Hear Hear with metal…not for nothing did I fight my own metal war in the eighties when I was at high school, arguing that the indie-ness of the JAMC, The Fall and The Smiths were superior to WASP, Poison and GNR. And, by association, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath and a good bit of Led Zep. All guilty, m’lud.
Your loss with Deep Purple and Black Sabbath.
I loved JAMC. WASP were always awful. Poison had one or two good songs. Guns and Roses are legends.
I love The Smiths and The Fall had one or two good tunes.
WASP’s first album is pretty good. Slim pickings with the rest though.
Donnington 87: tried too hard and we’re worse than Bad News on the day.
Donnington 92: surprise inclusion, their moment had past surely? Great performance down to not trying to hard to be important and just glad to be on the stage
Black Sabbath – for me a bit metal by numbers, apart from ‘Paranoid’. Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin are streets ahead of them, both as songwriters and musicians. Anybody who doesn’t really get Deep Purple, do yourself a favour and listen to ‘The Aviator’ (‘Perpendicular’ album, 1996), arguably their best song ever. I tried it on a pal who had never liked them and he said he thought it was brilliant. It’s kinda semi-acoustic folk-rock – Fairport Convention meets Lindisfarne meets Jethro Tull meets Big Country; ace lyrics, vocals and wonderful playing. I love ‘Black Night’, ‘Smoke’ on the Water’ , ‘Highway Star’ et al, but this is in a class of its own.
With metal, it was very much a teenage dislike of all of the tropes of metal that, thirty years later, I haven’t really moved on for.
That said, I was grateful to have a bunch of people at school into music as much as I was even if it was the wrong kind of music (to me). But like having a mate who supports a different football team…it’s the live of a team that’s important and not necessarily the team itself.
Most disappointingly, my eighteen year old daughter has just got into metal. Karma you might say.
And I’ve just listened to The Aviator. Not very ‘eavy. And not very typical of Deep Purple. And what with the mandolin, more reminiscent of Blackmore’s Night, who I do like, than Deep Purple.
Still Hush is a great song.
Negativity I don’t get.
I’d rather discuss the merits of artists/band/genres I like than be negative about artists/bands/genres that do nothing for me.
For what it’s worth that’s my personal opinion, OOAA.
Tend to agree, Baron. But if a thread is there I’ll maybe say what I think (without being nasty about it, I hope).
If it was just what we like and no critique I am afraid it would be a tad dull.
Fair enough Diddley, like I stated that’s just my opinion and everyone else has theirs. I’m not saying do not discuss the subject of this thread but when I meet up with friends one of the subjects that comes up is music. However we tend to discuss the music we’ve been enjoying and new acts that we think will interest us. Rarely do we spend time discussing acts who we can’t be bothered about.
For me it’s Steely Dan and Radiohead. Probably music I ‘should’ like, but both just leave me cold, the odd song notwithstanding.
You am I!
No, I’m Black Type! Radiohead and Steely Dan are in the top 2 bands I’ll never ever get. There are others, like Red Hot Chilli Peppers and Stereophonics, but you’re not supposed to like them. I don’t really see the appeal of Tom Waits or Depeche Mode, either.
Maybe it’s just me but there’s a Metal-like pomposity to Depeche Mode’s presentation that completely puts me off them.
We’re all Black Type, in a very real sense.
Steely Dan – I’ve got a Best Of. That’s all I really need
All you really need is the guitar solo from Reeling in the years.
And that had already happened at the end of Wishbone’s ‘Blowin’ Free’ anyway…
Kerpow! Take that, Elliot Randall!!
I bought Mojo purely for the Kinks article and the CD, not for Sainted Dave, and the track-listing was perplexing to say the least.
Ironically the writing sticks solely to the 60s, yet the CD has cloggers from Lola and Hillbillies and finishes with a 7 minute track from 1975!
A 10-track Kinks’ CD of lesser known songs should be blistering… Two Sisters, She’s Got Everything, This Is Where I Belong, Come On Now, I Need You, Pretty Polly, Do You Remember Walter?, Mindless Child of Motherhood, Berkeley Mews, The Way Love Used To Be… there you go… the thing compiles itself.
And here we were thinking you were seduced by that gorgeous picture of the DISH.
Eh? Dame In Shitty Hair. Drive In Saturday Hitmaker? Davies Is So Hornsey?
It’s the first one, isn’t it.
You know which one it is, you little tease.
New Order
Absolutely…not quite pop enough, not quite melancholy enough.
Not quite enough of anything when, in any year in which they were active, there was a rich supply of similar artists that were less muddled than New Order.
Their middlingness is so pervasive that I don’t know why this own members could be bothered falling out with one another.
I think @fentonsteve will be along shortly.
They’re not beyond criticism, much of it from me. A band in three acts, best served live. First act: teeting on the edge of chaos, some brilliance, some crapness. Second act: led by the (very average) singer. Third act: not for me.
We will always have That Petrol Emotion to bond over. Just maybe not New Order.
One good early tune with Blue Monday and then a late career boost with a football tune.
Pathetic!
Del Amitri did better on both scores.
Hmmm….Ceremony and especially Temptation are far better than BM for starters.
My god – The Perfect Kiss
I think @fentonsteve is close. 1981-1989 they were incredibly good especially as a singles act (plus Regret in 93). Pretty erratic live though.
Live, pre-1993, either transcendent or terrible. Nothing in between.
Post-1998 reformation, much ‘better’ but more average. Every pearl needs a little grit.
Let’s add BLT and True Faith to the canon of classics.
Hooky’s bassline, Gillian’s synths, Barney’s guitar, Stephen’s relentless drumming. It’s the combination of those different elements that make a wondrous, dynamic complex rhythmic mix that soars and swoops around the still small centre of Barney’s underwhelming vocals – understated so as not to distract from the glory of the music.
Not sure I’ve heard that Bacon, Lettuce and Tomato one – is it a Record Store Day exclusive? 🤔
Completely agree that Blue Monday, however great, isn’t as good as some of their other singles, although when it was in the chart originally it stood out as a stark work of genius. Ceremony, Temptation, Confusion, True Faith, Regret and even Touched By The Hand Of God are all up there. I can find lots to like in all eras of New Order, even Singularity from the last album was a good single even if it wouldn’t stand up with the run of classics on the original release of the Substance compilation. I’m not a completely blind fan…bits of Republic admittedly aren’t great and the last album is a bit patchy but I love the first full reunion album, 2001’s Get Ready.
Queen. Bohemian Rhapsody will never be anything to me other than unusual.
Queen for me too. Couple of decent songs – 39 and Killer Queen definitely. Love of my life maybe.
The rest is dull with the most boring guitarist ever.
Queen are a simple band dressed up in theatrical finery. I like Crazy Little Thing Called Love, their least pretentious song.
Strangely, I’ve seen two bands locally this week who both played Crazy Little Thing Called Love.
Queen were for me at their best in the early years – very clever, but interesting and entertaining at the same time, something not everyone manages all at once. (Steely Dan are also very clever, but otherwise – hmmm). I think afterwards they went more commercial and less, er, arty, with the intention of selling more records. It certainly worked – they had to follow ‘Bo Rhap’ somehow. But they still came up with more than a few decent to great songs – ‘Hammer to Fall’, ‘Save Me’, to name but two. I wasn’t keen on ‘Radio Ga Ga’, but they showed they could assimilate synth-pop, dance and so on as well as any of the other long-established acts. Also I’ve never wavered in my love for and admiration of Brian May’s guitar work, not far behind that of Harrison and Clapton.
Queen I, II and Sheer Heart Attack are musically straightforward with some pretty lyrics from Freddie. Their contemporaries, 10cc, were ‘clever’ and actually funny. I guess we all have different views on what’s entertaining.
Not so lauded though? I mean an easy target. Try something more beloved of The Afterword. Then they bite back. 😉
OK – I’ve never “got” Van Morrison. Not just the more controversial stuff, discussed at length on here – I’ve never got the adulation for Astral Weeks either…
I really like 1970’s Van Morrison from Moondance to Common One, and own all those albums in various formats and play them often But Astral Weeks I just cant get on with.
I don’t want to be the bearer of bad news but that is exactly what Mark Lawrenson once said in a Sunday newspaper. In a whinny voice, obviously.
Neigh, lad…
AW’s half-brother Veedon Fleece a far, far better album IM(NS)HO
Can I just chip in with a controversial opinion about Astral Weeks? It’s fuzzy, stoned, overplayed. Listen to the precision, clipped bass playing on Into the Mystic, then listen to the frantic mess of sproinging that comprises the bass on, say, Sweet Thing. It’s a matter of taste, I suppose, and AW is something you need to get in the zone for. But it’s far from his best work. Give me the kaleidoscopic Celtic soul of St Dominic’s Preview or even Hard Nose the Highway any day.
‘AW is something you need to get into the zone for’.
AW T-shirt.
Astral Weeks doesn’t sound like anything else he ever recorded. The songs are magnificent, the singing is great the playing is great even if Van didn’t give them any pointers as to what he wanted. A true masterpiece that I never get tired of. No longer play every day though
This is an interesting viewpoint, well expressed by MH. It shows that a diss can be worth reading and be more interesting than many a paen to a loved tune. We don’t need to be wounded or offended just because it’s about one of our cherished masterpieces.
I hear comments such as “not as good as Moondance” and think well; we can’t all share the same taste. Even among AW fans, Beside You; which I think is the best song; doesn’t get the love.
The Pet Shop Boys. The very definition of ‘meh’.
The very definition of “moi” surely?
The very definition of ‘melancholic’, maybe. Often with a disco beat, beat, h-h-heartbeat.
‘Meh’lancholic in fact
Brilliant pop songs. Tapered off after Very though, peerless until then
No no NO!
The Smiths. Tried hard. Nope
Me too 😕
The only album I’ve been able to tolerate is Strangeways, Here We Come, which I’m reliably informed is their worst.
2nd or 3rd best I think, depending on whether you count Hateful of Hollow
Freudian slip?
It’s not! A lot of “us” thought it was on release but it’s not. It’s just not so janglesome.
Interesting fact about the Smiths LP’s: the later ones are all better than the previous ones.
Less singing, more guitar.
Hmmm
Would have thought Meat Is Murder is the one with the highest guitar/vox ratio..
And Strangeways with the lowest.
This is fun!
Early records and singles have more of the jangle and riffage. Pretty guitar as Neil Tennant put it when he bemoaned the lack of it in later songs where there’s more acoustic and a more ‘rock’ feel. How Soon Is Now is surely the most celebrated Marr guitar moment.
Really? I think Morrissey sings for a bit, then the band rock out for a longer while on Strangeways. Maybe, it’s less jangly
Deffo less jangly but on reflection plenty of yer actual guitar. Plus maybe more keyboards?
Definitely more keyboards. Morrissey ‘plays’ them at the beginning of Last Night ..
The band rock out? On Strangeways? Only in the mildest sense I would suggest. The song London maybe from another record. There’s some rocking going on there. Bigmouth Strikes Again builds up a bit of steam. But otherwise not so much.
The Queen Is Dead rocks like the proverbial beast. See also: Sweet And Tender Hooligan.
The Smiths I would suggest are on the top 5 discussion starter artists here at The Afterword (maybe there’s a thread idea.. ) I love them still yet completely understand anyone who says they don’t get them. Strangeways has always been their weakest album. The irony for me is that it feels like all the joy has gone from them musically. This remains one of my favourite threads. Reading what The Smiths meant and still mean to some of you brought all the joy…
The Eurythmics. I should love them but no only do I find Annie Lennox voice slightly more grating than Freddie Mercury’s but musically Dave Stewart leaves me cold.
Springsteen, Nirvana, Pink Floyd, Wilco, Pavement, Flaming Lips, the Thrills (I know), anything with Damon Albarn in it, P Diddy or whatever he’s calling himself these days, the Blue Aeroplanes (niche), the Wedding Present, Pink, Eric (f#*king) Clapton and Cream, the Band, Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Franz Ferdinand, Coldplay, Kylie, Lana del Ray. I need a lie down. I’ll come back when I think of a few more.
I forgot the Beach Boys… and Love.
The Beach Boys !!! – what – even Pet Sounds. Good grief man.
Especially Pet Sounds for me. I have a soft spot for Surf’s Up but Pet Sounds never connected with me, despite putting the time in.
Okay I like the song Sail on Sailor. The rest is just over produced cheesy glee club stuff. As for God Only Knows… Apart from the unfortunate triggering of the memory of the opening titles of Jim’ll Fix It, I have written in these pages of my disregard for it, considering it a passive aggressive suicide note. So there.
You and I are never going to get along!
Kate Bush, Talking Heads, The Smiths
For music to ‘work’, it has to stimulate me on more than a cognitive level. I’ve done musical theory (grade 6) and it’s overrated. Overwhelm me with counterpoint, drive my hips with a bassline, flood me with gorgeous sound, on rare occasion inspire me with poetic imagery or allusion in the lyrics. Otherwise it’s just dull noise.
I tend to think that every band has either a sourdough starter (that when heard brings the previously inert dough of their musical canon to life, albeit differently active in different parts of their discography) or, better still, a spark plug song (which ignites the canon – everything starts to sound explosively vibrant, resonant).
From those mentioned with fervour and passion on the Afterword, Joni Mitchell and Little Feat are sourdough artists – I don’t love their music, but there’s enough bubbling gently away, that I have faith I will get them with enough listens – probably when I’m not paying close attention, but with peripheral hearing.
Kirsty McGee was a sparkplug artist for me – Sandman on one of the Word cover CDs just wowed me and I have loved her music since then – a musical pixie.
There are some AW artists I don’t like at all, but don’t care that I don’t like – e.g. Steely Dan, prog in general*, Wilco, Todd Rungren, Nick Lowe, Talk Talk, The Blue Nile. They’ve shown what they are and do, and it bores me. Life’s too short.
Two AW acts that leave me peering in at the window in wonder, while AWers I like and respect enthuse over favourite albums are XTC and Elvis Costello. I have no idea why these musicians manage to explore musical territories with such evident knowledge and fervour, and still produce really boring music.
——————-
*except King Crimson – I don’t get them, but they seem to have style and I’d like to get them
Sleb encounters corner: I once baked Kirsty McGee a loaf of bread. French bread, as she’s vegan.
Pre-Brexit she used to come to Bonn quite regularly to do house concerts or shows in a local bar. Always experimenting with something new, she got to know me and always played my favourites.
At first it was Sandman – she found it funny I used it as a lullaby for my baby daughters
Then it was this
Stereophonics. Meat and potato stodge rock.
Kasabian. No redeeming features at all, sorry.
Jamiroquai. Stevie Wonder rip-offs fronted by a twat in a hat. I saw them supporting Mother Earth, who deserved global stardom.
I could never understand why Mother Earth weren’t much bigger. They looked and sounded great, were brilliant live and had had proper songs, not always the case for an Acid Jazz type band, although they transcended that genre pretty easily. Jamiroquai being their support act would just be a bit of an embarrassment.
When I first saw them, Jamiroquai were third on the bill to Mother Earth with Corduroy in between, which seems about right. People were openly laughing at them, they were so bad. Next time, they helicoptered onto the Glastonbury stage for a special guest slot. I endured about a song and a half, as I sprinted from the field.
Sorry – “this thread is about the bands or artists that may be critically quite lauded” – in what world (let alone the Afterworld) is that true of those three?
Fair point, they are all like shooting fish in a barrel. Someone beat me to Oasis…
If that was my post, it was a different thread
Oasis are very easy to get, and to forget.
And I will continue to fly the flag for them
(I might be fighting a losing battle, but if nothing else works a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see me through)
I’m like that about Status Quo. There’s something about a Rossi melody and his vocal timbre that I am just a sucker for.
They have melodies?
This is the piscine vat subthread – be careful with your blunderbuss, sir!
Quoasis, so Damon’s joke went but unfair to Quo whose finest efforts are sublime whereas Oasis who I once rated for their first two albums, are no longer listenable somehow.
Excellent post Salwarpe but I wish I hadn’t posted this in the first place. As the Baron noted above this just creates mainly negative reaction – OMG I’ve turned us into Twitter!
Firstly, thank you. I don’t think you should beat yourself up about the OP – it inspired me to write my response, for a start. And what I took from it most was the entreaty to respond to people’s puzzlement at artists they don’t get – not just to offload all the musicians we don’t like and leave it at that. I’m happy to answer for the acts I like/love (see New Order above), and I hope somebody else will do the same for XTC and Elvis for me.
Musical taste is a peculiar thing, and there can be many reasons why we like or don’t like artists, genres, songs. If we don’t talk about that, then there’s no way of understanding why.
This is a classic AW post isn’t it?
Next, music that I get but nobody else does.
I disagree…
Joni Mitchell. Sorry folks.
Bruce Springsteen. And I really have tried.
Neil Young. It’s the voice.
Queen. Any of it, OK, except maybe Crazy Little Thing Called Love.
Post Syd Floyd.
I’m amazed that no one on this thread has yet mentioned the Grateful Dead.
Normally, when you have a thread about “Bands that you just don’t get”, people are absolutely queuing up to declare that they’ve never understood the appeal of the Dead!
The Grateful Dead.
Will that do? As pretty much an entire genre, I don’t get white men playing the blues.
Suddenly it’s 1963 again.
The New Order thread is ⬆️ up there.
Freddy wins the hamper for this.
Taylor Swift. Don’t start!
I’ve tried I really have but nah not for me. I can hear that Ms. Swift is talented. It’s not that I find anything about her music objectionable but it just doesn’t engage me. I find everything she does predictable and just a wee bit safe. I tried again only the other day to listen to Folklore, I lasted three songs then dumped it in favour of the recently released Manzananita from Shana Cleveland. I had similar problems with the Medicated Barbie Lana Del Ray but after prolonged exposure to her fuckitty fucking afternoon cocktail and quaaludes oeuvre I find her mildly tolerable occasionally. Ms Swift is just…sorry I fell asleep for a moment there.
Are there two different Taylor Swifts? Though I don’t know them that well, I get Folklore and Evermore. I don’t get Shake It Off at all.
I get them both. I just don’t need either of them.
There are more. She is legion.
Absolutely agree on Taylor Swift. She doesn’t speak to me either. At the moment, Yasmin Lacey does.
I absolutely concur about the Yasmin Lacey. It has been on regular rotation here at my bijou council penthouse apartment along with Safe Ground from Sundrayati and the release from last week by Vijay Iyer, Arooj Aftab and Shahzad Ismaily called Love in Exile. The new Julian Lage is a beauty too.
I was revisiting 2021 recently. It was a bad year for me and I ended up unable to properly vote in the AW poll. Uneasy was definitely top five and still is.
Blimey I agree with you yet again about the album that is. I choose not to remember 2021. It was a terrible year.
I’ve just ordered that album Love in Exile by Vijay Iyer, Arooj Aftab and Shahzad Ismaily. Glad to hear that it has the Pencilsqueezer seal of approval!
I imagine you will certainly dig it duco.
Fully endorse your opinions on the Aftab/Iyer/Ismaily album and Mr Lage’s bijou offering, Mr Squeezer. Not yet heard the Sundrayati or Yasmin Lacey’s.
Champion. Sundrayati’s album is an artifact of quiet loveliness. Yasmin Lacey’s darned groovy. While you’re here I’d point you at Goodbyes by Hanakiv on the always interesting Gondwana label. At First Light from Ralph Towner a solo acoustic album it’s absolutely lush. I seem to have been listening to Mr Towner’s music for most of my adult life and his recordings are always wonderful. Lastly if you dig a good bone player and I know I do the new one from Michael Dease is well worth your time it’s called The Other Shoe : The Music of Greg Hill.
In my morning pre-breakfast fug, I read that as “The Other Shoe : The Music of Grange Hill”.
I did a typo.
I missed out a “g”. Oops.
I’ll get you, Tucker!
Not a band but worth mentioning the formally alive person known as David Bowie
I suppose in some form, the elegantly formal Laughing Gnome hitmaker will be immortal.
I agree with this.
I don’t dislike the Thin White Duke – in fact I quite liked him as a person – but his music just leaves me completely cold. I am baffled by his huge influence and acclaim.
I’m not going to join in with all this negativity and bad vibes. I’m going to be positive and say West End Girls is quite good and Being Boring is actually very good.
While we’re at it, other very good songs by acts of whom you might infer my opinion via reference to the thread title:
Jokerman
Child In Time
Being Boring is more than very good.
And if we are doing “good songs by duff acts” I prefer Highway Star to Child in Time.
You am I!
Having received a few anxious DMs on this subject, I’d just like to offer my public the following words of comfort; I get all the bands.
I just don’t like listening to some of them (so far).
Why do you think people like listening to the bands you don’t like listening to (so far) then?
I think it has a lot to do with 5G phone masts.
nuff said.
Eh, Bingo…Why are you being so reasonable now??
If by “now” you mean that blessed period since I first joined the blog, the answer is: because I know no other manner of being.
If, on the other hand, by “now” you mean this thread, then I am forced to look at you askance.
Don’t be looking at me askance! T’was a humorous shoe-horned Weddoes reference .
😘
Well, it made me laugh. So it wasn’t entirely wasted.
I don’t get The Beatles, Rolling Stones or Van Morrison. I like the odd track by all three, but none of them have ever clicked. I can absolutely see why the first are revered and adored, but not the last two.
I thought for a moment that was going to be a Reynolds Girls reference.
I’d Rather Jack is a brilliant example of a SAW 80s pop song. The only trouble is that middle aged men wrote it and nobody, ah say nobody, would say in real like they’d “rather Jack”. Also – “Showing out”.
I don’t get any bands except for The Beatles, Stones, Jellyfish, Ben Folds Five, XTC, Pink Floyd, Mott the Hoople, The Monkees, Dylan, Felt, T.Rex, Stackridge, Caravan, early Yes, mid-period Waterboys and The Smiths.
Everything else is obviously rubbish.
Was there a perception of the Kinks as a singles band? I was surprised to learn they’ve released twenty four studio albums, but only three made the top ten in the UK. In fact, they never had a top-ten album after 1965. This certainly doesn’t mean they didn’t make good or great albums; for a group with such well-known songs, however, I find the lack of sales rather bizarre.
They shifted quite a lot of albums in the States when they reinvented themselves as a stadium babd during their late 70s and early 80s Arista period
The Village Green Preservation Society was released on the same day as The White Album and a fortnight before Beggars Banquet.
Crowded market … plus the fact Pye didn’t have a scooby when it came to promoting albums.
I’m a fan of the Kinks, and I own a copy of Village Green Preservation Society. Crowded market or not, it reached number 47 in the charts! Why did they have such success with singles, when their albums were as popular as Donald Trump at an orgy?
The Beach Boys albums didn’t sell either, including Pet Sounds, hence all the greatest hits packages over the years.
Not really true, Pet Sounds was a huge seller in the UK (no. 2, nearly 10 months in the charts) did less well in the US (no. 10). A quick glance tells me they had 34 top 40 albums of which 10 were compilations. Much better album sales than The Kinks
They made 29 studio albums and released 55 compilations, not including the “Sessions” like Feel Flows.
Yes, but many of the original studio albums sold just fine, certainly better than The Kinks
Peter Gabriel, Van Morrison, Cat Stevens, The National, Sigor Ros, King Gizzard.
Dexys Midnight Runners – self regarding piffle
Waterboys – faux fishermen
Prefab Sprout – 80s wimpathon
Haircut 100 – guitars held too high (see Gerry and the Pacemakers)
Postcard bands – return to sender
Blow Monkeys – too earnest
(Over)Crowded House – name says it all
Kate Bush – warbling
I see a theme here – 80s dontcha just love it.
“Postcard bands – return to sender”
That’s gold, Jerry!
If you want to see a 15 stone septuagenarian bear Usain Bolt out of the blocks, simply put the Incredible String Band onto the turntable
Jethro Tull: Perennial favourites on this site, but I don’t get them at all: an unattractive blend of standard blues, faux folk and pretentious rock.
And, I regret to say, Frank Zappa. I theory I should admire all the things he was trying to do with music, but other than “We’re Only In it for the Money” I don’t enjoy the albums that much.
Apart from the first album, could you point me to one single example of standard blues in their entire canon? I’m intrigued how I missed it.
I was once recommended This Was but didn’t take to it. Couldn’t get into Stand Up or Aqualung either. I must be missing something.
I think you may have misread the situation, if you believe that TMT are “perennial favourites on this site” – apart from one or two stalwart supporters (in which I include myself), I suspect your view of Tull may carry the day here.
I think you may be right Fitter, I’m with Pessoa on TMT.
Interesting approach – ‘perennial favourites on this site’, I took to mean artists for whom there are AWers who can reliably be expected to bang the drum and toot the horn for them – like Twang for Tull, for example.
Are there any artists which have ‘across the AWership’ appeal? I sincerely hope not. That would be very dull. No groupthink here, please.
Beatles, Bowie and Kate Bush are probably core. I’m not that bothered about them personally.
I mention the Tull from time to time but as Fitter says, they barely get a mention otherwise.
If we’re going for the letter ‘B’, I’d like to suggest Bogshed be added to the canon.
I think it is splendid you push Tull on the AW. I can’t be doing with the myself, but I think it’s an integral part of this place – and you did do a podcast on them.
Beatles can’t be avoided as they were there at the start and are/were both popular and critically acclaimed. I suppose Bowie and Bush kind of fit into that category of popularity and credibility, (though a more limited range of their discography was really popular). I’m like you in that regard – there ain’t much bother from me about them.
I think your approach is the more interesting, @salwarpe – and using your definition of “perennial favourites on this site“, I hereby claim the term for Van der Graaf Generator. Huzzah!
Radiohead. I’m surprised no-one seems to have mentioned them. Why not? Are they AW favourites or something?
Mentioned by Black Type upthread…
You’re right I see. He lumps them with Steely Dan! Weird,
Foxy’s not a fan, either. I think he’s mentioned it once or twice before.
Ahem…I’m stood here, y’know!
I ‘lumped them together’ as both are bands I just don’t get. I followed the brief.
Tom Waits. I have tried, o I have tried, but he still sounds like a maudlin drunk in a scrapyard. The songs are great. But only by other people. I can tolerate the early stuff, if by sheer determinant exposure, but the Sorephlegmbumbones type stuff? Ghastly.
“determinant exposure”
That sounds like something rather naughty, or perhaps[ it’s something we should all have more of?
I loved Swordfish thingy but ran out of steam with Raindogs. Up till then, big fan though.
There are some people who prefer later-era Tom Waits; I can’t say I’m one of them. His first album, Closing Time, is the work of a very different singer than swordfishtrombones – almost to the point where you can treat them as two separate entities. A decent analogy might be the four sumptuous Scott Walker solo albums (Scott 1-4), when you contrast them with him slapping a piece of meat in Düsseldorf for 27 hours in his later work.
If Barry White can be used as a catalyst for bedroom-based tomfoolery, Tom Waits doing spoken-word sweaty stuff is what I put on the stereo when I want a relationship to end.
That’s helpful, @hamlet. As someone with a soft spot for the Walker Bros, I have been put off his solo work by hearing some of his ‘meat’ period, as you describe it. Which really was murder.
Scott 4 is actually a good place to start: it’s accessible, with strong melodies and great lyrics. Scott 3 isn’t one you’d put on at a wedding, as it’s very one-paced; it’s a rewarding listen, though.
Duchess from Scott 4 is fab:
Yes 1, 2 and 4 plus most of “Till the band comes in” is the good stuff. After that it’s diminishing returns. This off TTBCI, which I like a lot.
I find something interesting in all periods of Scott, and I’m one of those who likes his later work.
In my mind, SW’s whole career was an attempt o define himself as an artist, by rebelling against the pigeonholes in which society and the music industry tried to put him. To me, the more extreme he became in this the more interesting he became. Probably my favourite two albums are Climate of Hunter and Tilt. But he was aware that what was doing meant isolating himself from the majority of current music consumers, but he was at peace with that, since finally he had the opportunity to do what he said he always wanted to do. In other words he didn’t minded that much all those who didn’t “get” him.
This will annoy people…
The Smiths – tuneless, nonsense lyrics and Morissey
Early Genesis – prog twaddle
Yes – see above
ABBA – I have no idea why they are thought of so reverently. A few decentish pop singles.
The Sex Pistols – I have a couple of their singles, but that’s all their stuff basically.
Jefferson Airplane – it mostly all sounds the same – White Rabbit is good though.
The Killers – they annoy me for some reason.
AC/DC – this is close to hatred – vocals like fingernails on a blackboard.
Funnily enough, it is Trespass that I like the bestest by Genesis, arguably prog-folk whimsy before the later more twiddly NC and FT. Selling England was my get off stop, bar some odds and ends from the rest of their career.
I didn’t like the Smiths at the time, coming later, through cover versions, gradually getting to like the cut of their jib.
Agree with Accadacca and have never felt the Killers worth my precious time. Indeed, true of most guitar based rock with portmanteau screechy vocals.
…and your point is…?
Nice melody, beautiful lyrics
The Smiths were many things but tuneless was not one of them.
This is a nailed on classic sing along tune IMHO.
The lyrics might be upsetting to some but the tune is a monster.
A truly incredible record.
Back to the Kinks… One interesting thing I noticed in the 90s, when trawling 1960s/early 70s ‘Melody Makers’ at the Brit Library during research for my Jansch book, was how little Kinks coverage there was by the later 60s. The Pentangle were in there every other week with news items, reviews, interviews etc. for example – with barely a mention of the Kinks, supposedly one of the key British acts of the era. One factor is the Pentangle had a dynamite manager/publicist in Jo Lustig – who if anyone was stoking the fire for the Kinks? Another factor is that at some retrospective point – maybe in the Mojo / first-wave CDs era in the 90s, an orthodoxy grew about the Kinks’ importance that has never been challenged.
Perhaps, dare I say it, their position in the pantheon has been overstated in retrospect… Perhaps they were a great 60s singles act who made enough interesting/unusual albums in the late 60s/early 70s to ALSO become a sort of uber cult albums act in hindsight (because as others have pointed out, these albums just weren’t selling at the time).
Another example of how the passage of time can skew perspectives is that Nik Cohn, in his 1969 book about the history of pop, devotes *a whole chapter* to PJ Proby. In the decades since, no generalist history of pop in the 50s/60s would give him more than a paragraph. Yet, back in the day (or very close to it), he was perceived as seismic enough for a chapter.
I agree. As a teen in the 60s, I remember that they were well liked, but they were a singles band. Having said that, most groups were considered thus besides a select few. I have often banged on about the importance of the Beatles’ singles being more or less ignored now, but that is what most people heard as they were on the radio, not album tracks. These days it is always the LPs that are given preeminence, with the singles being relegated to ‘oh and they had released a couple of singles in the meantime’ sort of comments.
The Kinks early albums are very patchy and they were ill served by Pye Records – they sound as if they were made in a hurry, and the sleeves were thrown together. By the time the terrific later albums came, no one was listening and everyone was into more progressive heavy sounds or folk rock or whatever – they were yesterday’s men.
‘They Were Yesterday’s Men’ – it sounds like you’ve just invented a mythical outtake from ‘Village Green…’ 😀
You make a good point about the predominance of singles in the 60s – something that is probably routinely underappreciated now. Ironically or otherwise, we seem to currently be in an era of uneasy / destination-not-really-known transition between ‘the album’ as common currency / statement of artistry and ‘tracks’, bunged out on digital platforms and quickly adrift of any context save (for those lucky enough to get millions of streams) a financial one. Even some significant ‘album artists’ are trying halfway houses of releasing their latest album as a series of EPs before the main thing – or a track every lunar month, if you’re Peter Gabriel. Personally, I find that irritating and too much effort (as a consumer)
The idea of music artists creating a body of work or delivering a more or less annual report in the form of 40-70 minutes of music is in danger. Of course, nothing lasts forever. But visual artists still work in the structure of more or less annual gallery shows, book authors still work in the structure of more or less a book a year (not a short story on Audible every two months or whatever). Creators of music will still, I feel, be drawn to the idea of ‘the album’ as an entity that represents a given creative period. But who knows what tomorrow looks like…
The Kinks were managed by Larry Page, and taking Ray Davies words in Moneygoround probably mis-managed. Pye’s publicity machine probably didn’t do much overtime, and then RCA seemed to do even less.
After Waterloo Sunset, Ray Davies was hailed as a writer of some renown whose legend was stoked after being cited as an influence by Paul Weller and factions of Madness
I saw a Kinks mid-70s OGWT concert on BBC4 a while back – it was pleasantly entertaining, in a sort of pub rock with A levels way, and I didn’t know most of the repertoire.
The first time I recall The Kinks was when I discovered music in 1978/9 and I recall a 1980s concert on the BBC that was guitar heavy and made me explore them more. I was into heavy rock at the time.
Once I discovered their 1960s output I was an immediate fan.
As stated above a great 1960s singles band but probably no more.
Listen to:
Face to Face
Something Else
Village Green Preservation Society
Arthur
Lola
Muswell Hillbillies
Not just a singles band
I know Village Green…gets the kudos – but Something Else and Muswell Hillbillies are great albums.
Yep, as are the others.
Everybody’s in Show-Biz is also a worthy inclusion
Yes, indeed: I also rate “To the Bone” – but as a live album, it probably doesn’t count!
Some brilliant songs on Preservation Act 1 also. I think early/mid 70s has plenty of worth, but the consistency is no longer there. And Come Dancing is great in the 80s!
This was a personal memory @Dai. I don’t think I even heard a Kinks album in the 60s.
As I said, the later 60s albums were ‘terrific’, but sales went off a cliff as the band just went out of fashion, whereas the first 3 LPs did well in parallel with singles performance. Those later LPs have grown in stature immeasurably, mostly around Village Green to be honest, but none of their albums from Arthur onwards bothered the charts.
It wasn’t just the Kinks – most of the early/mid 60s groups had either given up, been dropped by their label, or were being ignored in favour of what were called ‘progressive’ sounds…Hollies, Byrds, Searchers, Dave Clark 5, Spencer Davis Group, Merseybeats, Beach Boys…the list is endless. The ones who survived were able to adapt to the new world of albums and big US tours – popularity in the US was crucial too – The Kinks couldn’t even go there for 4 years.
@NigelT my comment was aimed at @Uncle-Wheaty, sorry wasn’t clear
I have a copy of the Village Green one somewhere.
I will certainly try the others on Spotify.
Sounds like the OGWT special they did for Sleepwalker. interesting and pretty good album
Maybe – all I know it was mid/late 70s and repeated recently. They did ‘Celluloid Heroes’ on it, which I hadn’t heard before. It zipped along nicely but from memory there was a really terrible bit of lyric writing towards the end – like Ray had suddenly given up trying to rhyme and just put a few words in, grasping defeat from the jaws of victory.
[goes off to Google…]
Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBATx9qnRDs
The group weren’t helped by Pye putting out compilations on their budget Marble Arch label, two of which reached the Top 10, which went in direct opposition to their own studio LPs of the time.
When I was but a lad in the early 70s I remember earnest discussions about best bands etc. the popular ranking was Beatles, Stones, Who, Kinks. Ahead of the likes of Small Faces, Cream, Yardbirds, Traffic etc. Kinks at the time were on the slippery slope of Rock Operas and in hindsight Stones and the Who has probably peaked. Beatles preserved in aspic. Led Zep and the like, at that time, didn’t have the heritage to be in the debate. American acts weren’t in the discussion. The Beach Boys were a novelty act to us callow youths. Didn’t know much of the Byrds. Doors pretentious etc etc. this isn’t how is see things now put the pecking order in a less crowded field.
The Fall are obvious bollocks aren’t they? Van Der Graaf Generator sometimes sound a bit like them. But better. And with a science degree.
Girly swots.
Any more of that, I shall have to ask you to step outside!
I never ever ‘got’ The Fall. A couple of tracks I liked…obviously Mr Pharmacist. Beyond that it was just a noise to me.
I used to sing Mr Pharmacist, and play scratchy rhythm guitar, with a covers band in the ‘90s, Wheaty – used to startle the local nursing staff from the hospital, not a side of me that they were used to seeing…
You sound like an old NHS rogue Chief Pharmacist.
Did you ever play ‘The Drugs Don’t Work’ as a Xmas special?
Arf!
Led Zep. Just brainless to me. Crappy lyrics, Plant doing the stupid vocal histrionics.
Of course of course there is the odd thing I really enjoy of theirs… but way too hyped. Music for civilians
Bob Dylan
Been trying to get him to click for years and by Christ I keep trying. I finally found 1 album, Time out of my Mind, that I enjoyed but still that’s it. I keep trying this one though as I’m so much on the minority side it has to click one day… just bored to tears mostly
This is the most on-point post of the thread. Dylan’s 1960s output attracts few converts today, probably being only of interest from a sociological or cultural history point of view, rather than a musical one. You sort of ‘had to be there’ to get it. Time out of mind by contrast works for me musically.
Same with the Zep I reckon. The “stupid vocal histrionics” seemed like it must somehow be the next big thing for those of us caught up in the madness of late 60s. Those who were more sane than me were merely perplexed by it. I do still like some of the bluesy guitar and drums though.
Well Dylan’s 60s albums worked just fine for me (and my friends) in the late 70s, when the mid 60s already seemed like ancient history. And my 16 yr old daughter was playing some songs from that era in the car recently (without any prompting from me) so I think you are wrong
Subjective impression. So sue me.
And now the 60s really are ancient history. I was talking about now-ish.
“Dylan’s 60s output attracts few converts today”
Really?
Care to elaborate on the basis for your claim?
“You had to be there” to “get” Desolation Row, or Like A Rolling Stone, or Subterranean Homesick Blues? I can’t think of an act where this is less true.
Subjective impression. So sue me.
Thankfully wasn’t there for the 60s, but no obstacle at all to enjoying Dylan. Grew up with the 60s records (and some of the 70s) played in the house/car by my parents and absolutely hated them on account of the voice.
Penny dropped when I hit my mid to late teens, and became an enormous fan. Bringing It All Back Home the gateway drug.
Great example of the reason I think these threads are generally a bit fruitless; there are so many acts I “didn’t get” until one day I just… did. If I don’t get a band and you do, then lucky you, frankly.
You are single-handedly redefining the term “made little sense”, B.
Not at all, such threads share subjective experiences. Entirely valid and supported by sheer data (the double century in this case). Keep them going, I say.
I agree, and I think it’s interesting to learn what is the album that unlocked Dylan for Bingo., like it was Time Out of Mind for Thegp (well, maybe not unlocked, but at least opened the window in that case).
Can he crawl out of it?
Well played.
The thing is this thread is futile. But taste IS taste and personal to each other. So using that logic Chris de Burgh is as good as Bob Dylan. And all music criticism is therefore futile.
So everyone is free to enjoy what they enjoy but it’s also more fun to point out what you don’t like and find likeminded souls.
I tried all of Dylan’s 60’s albums. After that, Blood on the Tracks nearly got me but not quite. Thing is he has so many that maybe there is something from 1976–93 I would enjoy but it’s a bugger finding the time
Whatever you do, don’t call off the search until you’ve experienced Bob’s timeless rendition of Here Comes Santa Claus.
I know so many people who feel they never truly “got” Dylan until they heard his imperious reworking of that festive classic. In so many ways, it is the Rosetta Stone of the entire Dylan oeuvre.
Well, I for one like it. It’s very endearing.
Oh, by all means keep them going. They’re just not for me. That’s my subjective impression (suing me optional) 😉
It gives me a little squeak of pleasure that Apple (Mac) trolled Apple (Corps) with their Sosume jingle.
They may not be for you, but you did come back to comment, didn’t you?! And each one is a delight to read, I should say.
Indeed, although I will continue to stubbornly refuse to list the bands I don’t get.
@salwarpe
And there was me thinking a sosume was some sort of orange
No, you’re thinking of Tangiers-ine by those stupid vocal histrionicers
*Sosumi*
Nice little film about its origins – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5838mfezO8M
Apparently, the start up chime that greeted Mac users for many years was also inspired by the closing chord in A Day in the Life.
I don’t get The Zep, either. I refer to my previous ‘White men playing the blues’ comment above.
Can blue men sing the whites?
Sorry Steve, but that is just too lazy a generalisation. There are many great bluesman of any background, and as as many dodgy black ones as white.
Well, tbh, I don’t much get The Blues, regardless of who is playing it. My loss, I’m sure.
Much of this thread is lazy generalisations TBH. Disappointingly the OP was largely ignored in favour of “X is ponderous rubbish/dull/utter shite” etc.
I get The Zep. Not a lot of point launching into a spirited defence on a thread like this, though…
There’s more to them than the blues anyway. Folk, psych even pop. No more silly and hysterical than much else in pop and rock, but then that’s part of music’s appeal. Daft ideas and experiments here and there.
Yep, agree (both points).
But Bingo, that’s no fun!
Au contraire, I love the Sex Pistols.
That’s because there aren’t any, Bingo, as you have already stated. I am impressed at the strength of your getness. As Ged is my wetness, I will never reach such a position of grace and imperturbability.
I have to admit, it was a rocky road. It became a lot simpler once I mandated that bands be brought before me to be formally got before being allowed to release their first single.
So what I DO get from this monster I unwittingly created is that between us we pretty much don’t get anything ? Welcome to The Afterword!
Your feedback file must be bulging.
Well, alternatively: between us, we pretty much get everything…glass half full, etc…
That’s my attitude. I can understand the reluctance to respond to a simple listing of bands that are no good (according to the writer) beyond saying ‘yes they are’ – it’s not very imaginative and doesn’t achieve much more than nailing colours to the mast.
The best contributions to the thread have been the ones which explain why the writer likes or doesn’t like an act. I don’t like prog at all, but I really like it when you enthuse over VdGG for example – I can relate to that, as I can relate to a dedicated exposition on why (a band I like) are mediocre bobbins.
Let’s have more writing about music (and dancing about architecture)!”
Huzzah to that! And, in the words of the Duke himself, we do love you madly!
Agreed. I’ve recently finished Gavin Hogg’s (of this parish) book about ‘zines. I’ve barely bought any, let alone written one, but listening to the enthusiastic writers & editors being interviewed was gripping stuff.
Mrs F has a pal who is a Victorian literature nerd. We get on really well, and we both use the same language to describe very different arts.
The AW love a good hate thread.
Anyway, getting back to those Kinks…
Arf!
If there is a problem with this thread I think it’s this:
A band I don’t get but as an AfterWorder of impeccable (?) credentials I really should is The Smiths. People whose opinion I mostly revere may rave but I just don’t get it. I left it there in my comments way above as simply that. But if I’m asked to elucidate I can only reply “Fey, whimsical, patronising, pseudo-intellectual drivel. Bah”. As soon as I say that others jump in with “How dare you!” And then the thread dissolves into “You smell” and “No, you do”
Lodestone of PONGness!!!
You don’t have to get them Lodes! OK, as a massive Smiths fan even I can see the fey and whimsical elements, but patronising and pseudo-intellectual? How and where?
I don’t think you smell by the way…😁
And what’s so Wrong with fey and whimsical?
Him what likes early Pink Floyd. Cuh!
Save us from the canonization of hallowed artists, untouchable and requiring adoration. That’s what the NME did, and it makes for a very narrow, prescriptive view of what is and isn’t cool to like.
A lot of people do like the Smiths, so I suppose there’s a sort of peer group-inspired curiosity to hear what the fuss is about. I would say that ‘fey’ and ‘whimsical’ are fairly neutral descriptions and describe the band (Morose-y in particular) rather well. I think you have to like his worldview to like their music (I never did, though I really like the Marr-involving Modest Mouse).
Patronising and pseudo-intellectual are judgemental and need substantiating. ‘Drivel’ is purely pejorative and the thread is already fizzing, before anyone else jumps in for the dissolution.
Care taken in critiquing what you don’t like brings the rewards it deserves in the responses, I would say.
I’m not sure (oh yes I am) that you’re addressing my point.
Surely this thread should just be “Never liked Brooce” or ” Kate gives me hives” without any explanation of this prejudice?
Is it an entertaining, interesting thread? Yes. Nuff said. Who cares how or why.
Probably not, I seem to miss the point of many things in life.
I don’t think this thread ‘should’ be anything, though I agree with Diddley that ‘entertaining’ and ‘interesting’ are good goals to aim for, and 3 or 4 word statements are neither.
So, this thread is not anything? It’s surely a thread where we are free to say “I’ve never liked Bob Dylan” without some nerd butting in with “Newport 65”?
Newport Pagnell 65? Not as good as Watford Gap 68. Although both are better than Sandbach 69
Sandbach 69 sounds very uncomfortable and probably requires a vigorous dip in the ocean afterwards.
Ah Watford Gap, ‘plate of grease and a load of crap.”
Newport state of mind.
My bad. I thought this thread was a Confessional Box where we could say, free from criticism or even a hint of rational explanation, “I’ve never got Brooce or Abba or Bloody Genesis”?
In fairness, no one got Abba until 1992, since when Abba have constituted 94% of songs played in Charity Shops, the only places where pop songs are still played in public.
Ahem, I’ve been on board the ABBA train since 1974.
It left the day before you came.
From Waterloo
Me too. First musical epiphany
First cacophony, more like it.
The NME’s canon was surely built on exactly the sorts of pithy put-downs this thread is full of. The publication’s main sales point was always just as much that it would educate you as to what you shouldn’t be listening to (and thereby save you from yourself) as to highlight what you should. Appealing when you’re a teen who doesn’t really know who the hell they are, less so as your need to define yourself in opposition to things diminishes.
If I come in here and say (for example) that the Beatles are crap and Twist and Shout is La Bamba for people who primarily dance with their arms, or that the albums of Pink Floyd have the most dangerous musical utility of all; allowing shallow people to feel deep, what does it actually achieve? It’s really not that hard to zing the tastes of others, or to be snide like that (which is why so many Lester Bangs-worshipping NME journalists who couldn’t actually write for toffee made a career of it).
But it also misses the point. I don’t get the Beatles and I don’t get Pink Floyd. Which is genuinely my loss, I’m quite sure, because so many people are clearly hearing something awesome that I am not. I am missing the party, in much the same way that many of those same people will be missing the party on (say) Whitney Houston or Drum & Bass.
Case in point; Dave’s recent thread about the Beatles is brilliant – it’s full of the usual hyperbole that makes me roll my eyes – but it’s also an absolute mountain of joy, with people celebrating music that they legitimately love. I see so much more value in that than someone telling you that a band are crap.
There are a few examples on this thread where people make good and interesting arguments in support of their position, but they’re almost all in the comments defending acts, rather than those criticising (notable exception; the stuff about Astral Weeks, which is great). For me, that tells you all you need to know – it’s a good thread, but if you take away those comments supporting bands and just leave the “I don’t like x” comments it would be a super dull one – which is why it’s good that the OP asked for both.
Mark Twain famously said that “grief can take care of itself, but to get the full value of a joy you must have someone to divide it with”. He could just as easily have been talking about musical criticism as far as I’m concerned. I want to divide my joy with others, while I’d prefer to be spared the tedium of listening to others spread their grief about the place.
OOA of course A.
Pithy and crock full of words but ,alas, not addressing my point and, I think (?), the thread’s OP.
“Discuss Groups/albums/artistes everyone else you know revere but you, all on your own, think nope, not for me. We don’t want explanations or treatises on why you think, for example, The Incredible String Band, is crap just a simple statement of nah will do.”
What’s that a quote from? Not the OP to this thread, that’s for sure.
Pithy means sparing in use of words. The OP doesn’t specify what you say about lauded acts that leave you cold, not that we usually worry too much about what the OP says.
Did I write that? I may well have as I can’t remember what I had for breakfast but even so Im impressed with myself!
This post needs to die quietly – I think I’ll restrict myself in future to safe and pleasurable topics like ‘How do you like your toast?’
“OOA…A”
Don’t get me started on Kajagoogoo.
Brilliant @black-type!
Brilliant, Bingo. You tickle me in all the right places. It has taken me decades to get over my NME years, I tell you. I’m still picking bits of sneering indie canon prose off my taste buds to this day. Some of my favourite musical discoveries these days are from genres ‘that the punk wars were fought to destroy’.
I did enjoy your, too accurate to be spontaneous, critique of the Beatles and the Floyd, though I note it was as much about the audience than the bands themselves. But I also take the point that laughing at others can often be a way to deflect how one feels about oneself and one’s own inadequacies.
What’s really great that you say is this – “genuinely my loss, I’m quite sure, because so many people are clearly hearing something awesome that I am not”.
That was what drew me to this thread – the recognition that others were hearing something really remarkable, revelatory and sheer throw your hands in the air awesome from acts who I had never drumroll‘got’. I wanted the sort of exposition from fans that gave an inkling of what it means to love,say, XTC, like I love New Order and Laurie Anderson.
The point of the critical stabs is to draw out the sweet nectar of beautiful, honeyed praise.
There’s a party on (say) Whitney Houston or Drum and Bass?
Where? When? Let me in, please, I’d do anything.
I mentioned The Smiths up above but – and this was prompted by Dave Ross linking to his thread – they aren’t a band I love unequivocally.
In retrospect, I think some of Morrissey’s nationalism was there in plain sight all along. And they are fey, patronising and pseudo-intellectual. Too often, some of Morrissey’s lyrics were punching down rather than the bonding-as-outsider than I was hoping they were.
I don’t know what you’ve listened to of The Smiths but if you go to The Queen Is Dead first, being their most celebrated album, it’s full of songs that you’ll probably dislike most. Frankly…, Vicar… and Some Girls… are all nonsense. And it’s ok to dislike There’s A Light…
And these types of songs litter their releases. Still Ill, Heaven Knows I’m Miserable Now and Paint A Vulgar Picture are the kind of Smiths songs that validate the criticism.
But Meat Is Murder (with the exception of the title track) is a muscular and thrilling album while Rank delivers better versions of many of the songs from The Queen Is Dead (and their wider back catalogue).
Inspired by this thread, I’ve gone back to listen to a lot of Smiths this weeks. The debut album and Hatful of Hollow are better than I remembered. Strangeways worse. Louder Than Bombs is a mixed bag. The love for The Queen Is Dead still baffles me.
Rank and Meat Is Murder, though, are still as exciting a listen as when I first heard them.
And herein lies the issue. The Smiths not only divide wider opinion, they divide your own opinion. As is often the case some nuance is required, it’s very rarely black and white. Thanks to The Afterword I now have an Acceptable Queen Playlist and it does the job. I still don’t get Queen per se but to dismiss everything? I defy anyone to come up with a 10 song Acceptable Eurythmics Playlist but who knows? This thread has been brilliant to follow. It may prompt another “One Song You Love By An Artist You Don’t Get”. I’m looking forward to Deramdaze confessing his love for The Land Of Make Believe…. And by the way @Viva-Avalanche Meat Is Murder has always been the best Smiths album and Strangeways their worst..
10 song Eurythmics playlist? Easy. Some of their early songs were brilliant – androgynous pop classics. I can sing all these in my head just from reading the titles and hear the instrumentation that goes with it. They might have become over-ubiquitous at the Brit Awards, but Annie Lennox has a beautiful soaring voice (to my ears).
Love Is A Stranger
Who’s That Girl
Sweet Dreams
Here Comes The Rain Again
Right By Your Side
Missionary Man
Thorn In My Side
When Tomorrow Comes
The Miracle of Love
You Have Placed A Chill In My Heart
Great comments about The Smiths from Viva and Dave. It prompts me to go back and listen to them again. My best friend at the time was devoted to the first album, so I may find myself reeling round the fountain at the memories it brings back.
Thanks @salwarpe Sweet Dreams, Here Comes The Rain and I’d add 1984 I can just about cope with. The rest put my teeth on edge just reading the titles. I know I should get them but as is the point of the thread I just don’t. But I now have 3 acceptable Eurythmics songs so that’s ok
Yes I think I’ll go and listen to something I can just about cope with. It’s such a great way to pass the time.
The Eurythmics songs seem to have all the right elements but somehow they sound soulless, made by a machine almost. By numbers. Thorn In My Side is a tune but I can’t say I ever want to play it.
i think it helps to think of Annie Lennox as a dominatrix.
Well…the snell wind off the North Sea and a diet consisting mainly of butteries will harden up a canny quine…
beautiful prose!
What in life generally?
I find it helps to think of most people as dominatrixes. Dunno why Salwarpe’s limiting himself to Annie Lennox.
If you just think of yourself as a dominatrix you can just get on with it and give yourself a damn good thrashing. No need to listen to the Eurythmics. It’s a win win.
Ouch! I’ve won!
Well, I was thinking of her persona in their songs, but…
If it puts a smile on your face and a song in your heart and a spring in your step, well…
Whatever makes you happy
Whatever makes you happy
Whatever makes you happy
Whatever makes you happy
Whatever gives you hope
Even if it’s a truly tasteless joke
Jennifer is awfully good.
I have two marvellously tenuous Konnections to The Kinks.
I used to work (kinda) with one of their original managers, one Robert Wace. This was during the early 90’s when he had long left their orbit and was then in the Diplomatic Service. As was I as a very junior clerk type nerk. He was thoroughly pleasant and very charming.
Another pal and colleague at same employment was and remains the nephew of the bass player, though I forget which of them.
I don’t much care for Bruce Springsteen this century. But if you need a blast of that 1970s into 80s magic sound, with the odd dash of CCR, try The Blue Highways. Flippin excellent.
I don’t know the Blue Highways at all.
But I do know “Blue Highways” (1982) the classic of American travel writing by William Least Heat-Moon. Great book.
Not so much a band I don’t get, I loved Nick Cave up to and including Dig, Lazarus, Dig!!! but the last three very heavily lauded albums do absolutely nothing for me, I just don’t get them. A friend summed it up when he said he preferred Nick Cave when he used to write songs.
Are Grinderman 2 and I agree.
Having said that, they all obviously mean a great deal to him.
I’d rate Push The Sky Away as one of his best.
Continental matchsticks, any brand. I don’t know if they exist in UK. I remember the UK having sturdy, proper wooden matchsticks by Bryant & May, who must be like the Lennon & McCartney of matchsticks. Matchsticks sturdy enough to strike alight in an ill breeze and/or to provide ample illumination in a cave in order to check for apex predators. Continental matchsticks are rubbish. Thin strips of a wax-like substance with a flammable bit on the end. To strike them successfully you have to also set alight to your fingers, there’s no other way. And then you drop it and it goes out. Whole thing last 2 seconds and gets you nowhere. Repeatedly.
Oh and continental plugs while we’re at it. Deathtraps the lot of them. I’m surprised there’s still anyone alive beyond the UK’s shores.
TMFTL
Oops. Wrong thread. Still, never mind.
No… Continental Matchsticks – two NME front covers in 1993, three Peel Sessions, and, frankly, a group only Peel could love. They sucked.