I’ve often mentioned my wish to have an app or something similar that can erase your favourite song from your mind so you can hear it again for the first time. A couple of Sundays ago in a local garden centre café I came about as close as is possible to experiencing this. Suddenly with no warning over the music system came that jangly ear worm of an intro from This Charming Man. Completely out of context, completely unexpected and completely wonderful. By the time Morrissey sang “punctured bicycle” I’d put my knife and fork down and left my eggs to go cold until the last drop of the song had passed. Bugger me if it wasn’t followed by What Difference Does It Make another unexpected smash between the ears. Since then I’ve found the time to listen to their four studio albums and A Hatful Of Hollow again.
My history with The Smiths is mixed. As a young man in 1984 I was between friend groups, old college friends and new nightclubbing mates but when The Smiths crashed into my world via Top Of The Pops I couldn’t ignore them. I was lucky enough to see them live. I bought the albums The Smiths and Hatful Of Hollow and all the singles up to How Soon Is Now and then met a girl more into 5 Star and Madonna and fool that I was that was that.
In early 2000’s I picked up Best 1 and Best 2 on CD during a miserable shopping trip while drifting around HMV. It set me on voyage of rediscovery collecting everything I could studio albums, compilations and live albums. I devoured them all ultimately deciding that Strangeways, Here We Come wasn’t the same standard as the rest and that it was probably a good thing that they split when they did. It was only later via social media that I realised that I was in a minority. Since then I’ve only listened very occasionally and with all the Morrissey stuff I’ve had no real inclination to listen again until now.
What struck me instantly with the eponymous first album was just how dark it was. Of course it was dark Dave I hear you say. Well yes but bloody hell. Maybe a life lived, experience and my job now meaning that safeguarding is front and centre on a daily basis I was quite shocked. I remember the accusations of paedophilia, the morbid obsession with death and serial killers, the bleakness and the sadness hidden in plain sight behind the music but it was always as Morrissey the protagonist. It hit me that maybe Morrissey was a victim. Yes he was always odd and carried himself with this ridiculous arrogance but… Reel Around The Fountain, The Hand That Rocks The Cradle etc could be perhaps from memories of his own childhood. Let’s be honest if a teacher in 2022 came across this stuff in a students writing all sorts of alarm bells would ring. I must dig out and try again with the Morrissey autobiography, maybe answers lay there. Maybe he is an awful human being or maybe….
Hatful Of Hollow was more of the same. This stuff is raw, open, profoundly troubling and quite extraordinary when taken as 3 minute pop songs hoping to gain broad appeal. It’s quite remarkable.
On to Meat Is Murder which was always my favourite although I think The Smiths has taken over on this revisit. It certainly retains the rawness and that sense of reality. Like it was all drawn from actual experience. I have to confess that Well I Wonder stopped me in my tracks and almost drew a tear.
Well I wonder Do you hear me when you sleep?
I hoarsely cry
Well I wonder
Do you see me when we pass?
I half-die
Please keep me in mind
Please keep me in mind
Gasping but somehow still alive
This is the fierce last stand of all I am
Gasping, dying but somehow still alive
This is the final stand of all I am
Please keep me in mind
Those words with Marrs light touch just exquisite. (Man up Dave ffs!)
It also reminded me how important Mike Joyce and Andy Rourke were. Barbarism Begins At Home for example being as much about those two as Morrissey and Marr. This was a rare collection of musicians thrown together with Morrissey’s unique qualities to produce a run of three albums that on hearing again, now, for some reason have been elevated beyond how I previously remember them.
With The Queen Is Dead it starts to feel forced. I know there are some brilliant songs. But…. it’s all a bit we need to be quirky and lacking that feeling of the personal. Vicar In A Tutu, Frankly Mr Shankly, Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others? Mmmm. It’s great album obviously and it contains There Is A Light That Never Goes Out which is one of their best but it doesn’t make me feel what the first three do.
Strangeways hadn’t improved with age and still feels just wrong and again all a bit forced and fake. Last Night I Felt Somebody Loved Me the standout.
The Smiths legacy as one of the most important British bands achieved in just 4 years, influencing much of what came in the 90’s has been tainted by the fall outs and Morrissey’s increasingly bizarre offensive behaviour. He’s an adult and needs to take responsibility, if he even cares. Im certainly not making excuses for him. What I have learned over the years is that we all have a story, something that makes us the people we are. I can’t listen to the first three albums without wondering what made Morrissey the man he is and whether he is a product of something nasty in his early life. Marr, Rourke and Joyce though deserve better. Marr’s guitar work never bettered for me and Rourke and Joyce one of the great rhthym sections. The songs survive as unique, provocative and thrilling snapshots of a very different 80’s. I’m glad I can, on this occasion, continue to listen, even if the world won’t anymore….
Nice piece. Disagree about Strangeways, I think it is superb, as was Viva Hate that followed fairly quickly. Am probably with the majority in thinking that “Queen” is their masterpiece, first album has terrible production and a few clunkers. Much prefer Hatful of Hollow which has quite a few repeats from the first album. Meat is Murder I find the weakest actually,
My original UK Rough Trade vinyl was worth quite a lot and I sold them about a year ago while cursing Morrissey I kept Hatful of Hollow though 🙂 (and a few 12 inch singles)
Yep, I’d agree with every word of that. I can never understand why Meat is Murder often ranks so highly.
A similar argument to The Holy Bible is the ‘best’ Manics album. It might be (unifying theme, etc) but it is a tough listen.
Pop kid that I am, I much prefer The Queen Is Dead and Everything Must Go.
Yep, with you on the Holy Bible. I gave up on that one and flogged it some time ago.
One of the top 5 albums of the 90s. Stupendously brilliant. I can listen to it still no problem. the lyrics are indeed very tough but James Dean Bradfield (and Sean Moore) made some incredible songs from it and the band’s performance is their peak for me., also his vocal peak. Everything Must Go is great too.
It’s interesting that the critical response to Meat is Murder – as collated on Wikipedia – is pretty average. I’d agree: I don’t think it’s particularly good. As I say further down this thread, this certainly doesn’t mean I don’t like them as a band.
Fascinating stuff…I love everything on Meat Is Murder except the title track, which I can’t stand.
Context and timing, in my case. I was living in a tiny flat in Canterbury in the last stages of a relationship that had survived Sixth Form but wouldn’t see University out. We had Hatfull of Hollow, but when Meat is Murder came out it was the greatest thing ever.
Actually it isn’t – Hatfull is way better. But you can’t tell a 20-year-old anything. A year later The Smiths put out I Know It’s Over, and by then it was.
I was 22, and disappointed in MiM (despite being a vegetarian at the time)
Remember hearing The Headmaster Ritual at huge volume and loving it, rest of album not up to that standard for me
I must have been at Canterbury (UKC) at the same time as you, or a year either way, @chiz and The Smiths’ releases perfectly spanned my time there.
They played at the Uni in February ’84, promoting the debut album, Meat Is Murder was a year later, and then, in the final summer (’86), The Queen Is Dead came out. Much as I loved the latter, it was slightly spoiled for me on account of hearing ‘There Is A Light That Never Goes Out’ enough times for a lifetime, via a lovelorn housemate who played it 24/7. Still, the World Cup was on, and that helped.
I was at that concert in ’84 too.
I expected everyone to eulogise about Strangeways but try as I might I just don’t hear it. I love Hatful Of Hollow no clunkers there. Any regrets selling the originals?
Not really. I have the music anyway and rarely listen to them these days. A lot more vinyl may well be sold in 2022
It’s all about the context sometimes isn’t it? Pre-COVID I was in a pub for a birthday do for one of my wife’s friends. There was a stream of mostly 80s videos playing from a couple of huge TVs.
Bonnie Tyler, Rick Astley, Foreigner, Berlin, T’Pau, Heart, Phil Collins…that kind of thing. Small pockets of dancing might break out if there was a particularly jaunty one.
And then…from nowhere…comes “Stop Me if you Think That You’ve Heard This One Before”.
With a video featuring Morrissey leading a dozen or so very pale lookalike fans (cardigans, nhs glasses, quiffs) on bicycles around the suburban landmarks that feature in Smiths songs and cover art – for example Salford Lads’ Club.
At that moment, it was the best thing I had heard or seen in my life – largely because it was so unexpected. I’d never seen that video before. I gloried once more in the music, the humour and the damn clever lyrics.
You’ve just described my café experience beautifully. It’s a brilliant thing when it happens. Stop Me though is one of those songs I can’t get into.
Because it’s been covered by a proper pop star relatively recently* Stop Me… has kind of risen without trace, like a mini-Hallelujah.
It’s the best “end of side one” track I can think of. I know what I mean by this.
*er, this century… possibly
Mark Ronson (it says here). Got to No. 2 in 2007.
Morrissey’s autobiography talks of Geoff Travis, founder of Rough Trade, attempting to correct his grammar when referring to the line “who said I lied, because I never!” . I think several pages are devoted to incinerating Travis – not as many as the “pile of sandwiches” judge though.
Many years ago, an elderly contestant on Who Wants to be a Millionaire said that he was once Morrissey’s English teacher. This prompted Chris Tarrant to smirk and say “Good Lord, imagine being Morrissey’s English Teacher!” to a big laugh from the audience.
Oh yes I liked that, Dave. You make some interesting points. Although the whole Morrissey character was clearly a contrivance, dreamt up over some time in his bedroom, I get what you’re saying about those first albums – I’ve often listened to the song Jeane, for example, and wondered why he couldn’t have written a few more lyrics like that, where he was at least synthesising an empathy for real characters rather than the “I”, “me”, “my” dominated stuff which, to be fair, he did excel at . At least his self-obsessed material was, mostly, very funny.
As someone who bought all the albums as they came out, I’d say an important addition to the story is the compilation The World Won’t Listen*.
It would be my first stop now if I want to play The Smiths. This is partly because it takes me right back to the most wonderful time in my life, but also, in the process of bringing together some off-album singles, it has, on side two, a terrific run of b sides like Stretch Out And Wait and You Just Haven’t Earned It Yet, Baby which exemplify a band not on the way to the top, but right in “the zone”, confident and prolific.
And it’s their best album cover – geezers on the front, lasses on the back.
(*Others will have bought Louder Than Bombs, which had many of the same tracks and came out during that same post-QID/pre-Strangeways
period).
Kirsty MacColl did a nice cover version of “You Just Haven’t Earned It Yet, Baby”. Good song!
I really like the Sandie Shaw album, Hello Angel, with a couple of Moz/Marr songs (and the whole of the Smiths as her backing band on Hand In Glove).
She has much better vocals (and legs) than Moz.
Yes! Sometimes one of the tracks from that album pops up on shuffle and it’s always a treat.
Better legs than Moz. Fainter praise never damned….
At the risk of inappropriate comment, Sandie Shaw’s legs were (are still) better than most. She was on Later… a few years ago and that’s what I most remember about it.
Ditto the performance on Later… by French electro swing band Caravan Palace. I liked the tune enough to buy the album.
Hurrr.
I think I have both. (just checked – I do).
My favourite is still Hatfull of Hollow – as often it is the one you first fall for that sticks with you.
The World Won’t Listen and Louder Than Bombs were both discoveries during my 2000’s revisit. They are still the best way for me to listen to the Strangeways tracks interspersed with the older stuff.. All their covers were wonderful. Would make for a great exhibition
At the time, in real time, I just didn’t and couldn’t get them. Seeing them on TOTP didn’t help, the gormlessness and poor taste of the awkward cove with a fake old school hearing aid, gladioli and naff shirt sense was sufficiently off putting for me to deplore the whole context. And he couldn’t sing, or scan his drab lyrics either. It was only when Girlfriend ina Coma came along that it suddenly fell into place. My then wife had bought Strangeways etc for reasons I couldnt quite tally, so I got to hear a fair bit, whether I liked it or not. By then there was beginning to be a fair number of cover versions of their better known songs, which gave me a better appreciation of the cleverly structured songs. Suddenly I was a fan, as ever way behind the curve; it was just about the time of Morrisey’s Last of the International Playboys, it clear he actually was a bit of a twat, but too bad. I remain a late blooming fan of the Smiths and much even of his solo work. Strange, but then I am: I only ‘got’ Ian Curtis and Joy Division a year or so ago.
I’m like you, in that I had a few of their singles, but didn’t really see the appeal. My brother in law is a big Morrissey/Smiths fan though, so I finally got what all the fuss was about in the early 90s. I actually rank Your Arsenal up there alongside The Queen is Dead, Tomorrow being my favourite song he’s done. Like most I drifted away from him a few years ago, when he moved from being a bit of an arse to a complete tit, so I didn’t buy his last few albums, but I had a listen to them a year or so ago and found that despite all the horrid stuff he says, he’s actually going through a bit of a purple patch musically. So I’ve since relented and bought the ones I’d ignored.
It must be a bit of a thing, coming out with a load of racist/conspiracy theorist/right wing drivel, whilst releasing your best album for years, as Van Morrison has just done it too. Maybe I should give Eric Clapton’s most recent album a go?
‘He couldn’t sing’. It’s fascinating, isn’t it? There are so many pop and rock stars who really are chancers and, I say this as an insider to singing, clearly haven’t even thought about what they’re singing sounds like. Morrissey isn’t one of them (OOAA). Resonance, sustain, projection, expression; he’s got so much that others don’t have. Yet, his is that old chestnut, a marmite voice, reviled by huge numbers. Even my mother (Northern working town choral tradition / Gilbert & Sullivan / Kathleen Ferrier), septuagenarian at the time, went out of the way to say that, of all my dodgy music, he was the one who could actually sing.
Of course he can sing, some may not like his voice but he did some excellent performances
What was it about Girlfriend In A Coma that drew you in where others hadn’t? It’s another one I can’t get into compared to say Heaven Knows I’m Miserable Now. I think of Marrs guitar dancing around Morrissey’s lyric on HKIMN where it plods around GIAC.
Arf! I have always enjoyed the uplift of arch miserablisms, so catnip to me. Dirges are my carols of joy.
Plus, to those who chide my critique of his inability to sing, I will revise. He sings nearly as well as Marc Almond. Happy?
Marc Almond’s a great singer. Bedsitter and Say Hello Wave Goodbye are great songs and as no one can sing them better than him that makes him a great singer right?
What’s that Sooty? He can’t carry a tune? Oh give over…
I went to Robin Ince and Brian Cox’s Compendium of reason at the RAH in December (lucky set of coincidences meant I was in London for the night for the first time in 2years). Guests included Sophie Ellis Bexter, Tinita Tikaram, Boy George and… Marc Almond. His performance of Say Hello…was the highlight of the evening for me. Fantastic.
I’ve been to see Marc Almond on stage; he is a great performer, and really delivers a song well. He’s one of those vocal artists who somehow take the audience with him into the performance, and he (usually) astutely chooses his material accordingly. There’s a lot of love in the place at his gigs, at least there was the night I watched him perform. Note that I haven’t used the word ‘sing’, because it doesn’t always matter when you’re watching a soul in thrall to the song they are performing. There are quite a few more contemporary vocal artists who could learn a thing or two from his artistry. Some of them most definitely cannot sing.
“He’s one of those vocal artists who somehow take the audience with him into the performance”
That’s exactly it. When he sings about standing in the doorway of the Pink Flamingo crying in the rain, you need to put up your umbrella.
You will be delighted / alarmed to learn that I was required to deliver Tainted Love in a folk styleee a couple of years ago. ‘Now I’m going to pack my things and go’ fits perfectly to the refrain of Pleasant and Delightful. All for charidee.
Great stuff, Dave.
It makes me think of under-appreciated rhyhm sections in pop:
Rourke and Joyce
Berry and Mills (R.E.M.)
Clayton and Mullen (U2)
This could become a thread of its own…
Brzezicki and Butler (Big Country)
Starkey and McCartney?
Gallup and Tolhurst
Crun and Bannister
Hungerdunger, Hungerdunger, Hungerdunger, and McCormick
You left out a Hungerdunger! The most important one, too!
I’ll stick in a windshield wiper instead.
You may go, Jamieson!
Foxton & Buckler..
I hardly think they’re underrated. Except by Weller perhaps.
Fletch (Depeche)
Yes, especially live. I’d have no idea when to clap along if it wasn’t for him.
Thanks for the clarification, I’d have assumed you meant Chevy Chase
Frantz and Weymouth
Karn and Jansen
Pegg and Mattacks
Donaldson and Conway
Howlett and Moerlen
Thomson and Allen
Mustapha and Mustapha.
Rivers / Otto
Burgess/Lever
Kilbey/Ploog
Sacco/Vinzetti
Reilly / McMordie
Adams and Avalanche
Kirke and Fraser.
Gunnarsson and Brunkert
I think Strangeways is their best album. I like the others, particularly the debut, but Strangeways wins it for me.
Morrissey and Marr thought so, too.
Yep. I think the albums just kept getting better, and the outstanding singles throughout their career alleviated any misgivings about patchy LP”s.
Yep. It made me dance my legs down to the knees.
(this joke’s crap, I know)
Hatful of Hollow all the way, even if it was a kind of compilation. Strangeways just has moments for me. My favourite song is Rubber Ring though so I’m probably in a minority.
Apparently Morrissey had a notebook of lyrics already written which he referred to for the earlier albums. Then he used up that source and had to come up with new material for the later records. That could explain a certain decline, if you believe there was one.
There wasn’t. And his first solo albums were top notch too
I mean there is awful stuff like Miserable Lie on first album, he got better
I’m obviously missing something so a decline is probably harsh. Miserable Lie is brilliant, frantic and full of energy I don’t hear in Strangeways. And these lyrics, just perfect…
I know I need hardly say
How much I love your casual way
Oh, but please put your tongue away
A little higher and we’re well away
The dark nights are drawing in
And your humor is as black as them
I look at yours, you laugh at mine
And “love” is just a miserable lie
You have destroyed my flower-like life
Not once – twice
You have corrupt my innocent mind
Not once – twice
Can’t stand the “falsetto”.
Actually looking at the track listing I was a bit harsh on “The Smiths”, it is full of good songs. I played it to death when it came out, production puts me off these days Let’s see (inc comps):
1. The Queen is Dead
2. Hatful of Hollow
3. Strangeways
4. The Smiths
5. Meat
6. The World Won’t Listen/Louder than Bombs
All are worthwhile though
I saw them play in 1984, and while the songs sounded interesting, the sound was appalling, and I left them largely alone for the next few years. A copy of Louder Than Bombs drew me back in, and now that I could hear how – more or less- they were supposed to sound, I found a wellspring of great tunes. Thanks for the reminder – I must dig out the double vinyl and give it another spin!
You can see me*, standing under what is now called Ben’s Tree, half way up the hill on the left, in the still photo that accompanies this recording of the gig I saw:
*powerful microscope required, plus Bladerunner photo enhancement tech.
I don’t think there’s a bad song on any of the four studio albums. There are a handful of weak b-sides but that’s about it. Johnny Marr did it all before the age of 23, and never again hit the same heights.
I can only think of one poor B side (Golden Lights), most were really good
Most of the duff ones were left off the compos, but there weren’t many. And they weren’t even duff by normal standards.
The session versions were routinely best – not just the Hatful material but the Peel Nowhere fast and Ruffians, which turned up on the Last Night I Dreamt…. 12″.
I’m not a big fan of:
Is It Really So Strange?
London
Golden Lights
These Things Take Time
Unloveable
But that’s it. The rest of their material is brilliant imho.
God These Things Take Time is wonderful
I’m a fan of Really So Strange but I do kind of understand why somebody wouldn’t like it. It’s from their last Peel session and almost makes me glad that they split when they did, because it’s on the edge of self-parody.
Anybody* mentioned The World Won’t Listen? I thought it was phenomenal value and works incredibly well as an album. Terrific sleeve too (Jurgen Vollmer’s pictures). I’m referring to the vinyl.
*EDIT – yes, loads.
Only a couple of times have I had the feeling of standing at the centre of the musical world. Nirvana at Reading was one, and the Smiths at the Hacienda in the week they were on TOTP with This Charming Man was another. Though the songs vary in quality its a pretty perfect catalogue, 4 studio albums and 2 single compilations. Choosing between them is a bit like choosing between children. Oh and myself and Mrs Moles were both separately at an Oxford Apollo Smiths gig before we met…
Felt were my Smiths in the 80s, though not sure either of them stand the test of time as much as I’d wish these days (though Felt are definitely more listened to still). What they have in common though is that though the young teenage worshiper in me would have loved to be Lawrence or Morrissey at the time, I’m glad that the middle aged me hasn’t ended up like either of them, for very different reasons.
My favourite is Strangeways because there is more Marr + band and less Morrissey, whose mannerisms irritate me over a whole album. Hatful of Hollow is superb, though. Those are the only two I’ve listened to in the last twenty years.
Like a lot of great groups, there’s a lot of good stuff, but I strongly disagree with anyone who says they never did a bad song. If anyone ever deliberately seeks out any of the following (and this is just from the first two albums), I’d be surprised:
Pretty Girls Make Graves
Suffer Little Children
The Hand that Rocks the Cradle
What She Said
Meat is Murder
The first three of those are absolutely phenomenal.
All of them are ace.
Different strokes etc
All five of those tracks are superb in my opinion.
Each to their own, clearly!
I’m on Team Hamlet. Go us!
He’s in need of new signings after Rosencrantz and Guildenstern were transferred to England… or something.
I think How Soon is Now is as good as anything ever recorded. Just recently I chuckled to myself whilst listening to my ipod when I picked out this bit of one of their songs as it played
It was dark as I drove the point home
And on cold leather seats
Well, it suddenly struck me
I just might die with a smile on my
Face after all
I loved The Smiths. The tunes. the guitars, the lyrics, the image (you could choose between a Byrds haircut or a quiff) and the fact that they were such a great live band. Fabulous. Saw them live a few times and each was a proper “event.” None of the singer’s idiot utterances from more recent years will ever convince me otherwise. Although he does keep trying…
If you’d ventured into Morrissey’s solo work, “Your Arsenal” would have worked well with your listening last March/April.
I heart the Smiths.
Many years ago, I was browsing CDs in Tower Records Chicago and found myself next to Morrissey. You Are The Quarry had just come out, I was really enjoying the album, and for a moment I considered saying something to him.
Happily, reason quickly regained her throne and I decided to leave him well alone. For one thing, the poor bloke was probably just trying to do some peaceful record shopping, for another, I figured that there was no likely interaction from which I would emerge with (a) my fond regard for Morrissey; and (b) my dignity, intact.
As it turns out, he’s clearly a complete knob. But then, so are/were most rock stars, although most of them haven’t written a lyric as laugh out loud funny and terrifically on the button as I Know It’s Over. Still, I look back on that day in Chicago and reflect that a moment of uncharacteristically sound judgement spared me from what would have been near-certain genuflection before a man who would latterly reveal himself to be a profoundly unpleasant bigot.
Dave – I know well that feeling you’re talking about when you’re out and about somewhere and hear a song fresh. It’s fantastic; I only wish it could be bottled. Had it quite recently with Werewolves Of London; mother of god, what a tune.
I bought You Are The Quarry in Tower Records in LA. No Morrissey though, just a miserable assistant who wasn’t impressed that I wasn’t able to agree with her that a record I’d just bought and had not yet heard was, like, the best record ever, you know.
Re: Werewolves of London – the first thing I taught myself to play, via a YouTube tutorial, when I bought my daughter a keyboard, many moons ago. It’s one of the Wad household favourites.
Re: Werewolves of London – Kevin Rowland liked the melody so much he lifted it wholesale and used it as the basis of One of Those Things on Don’t Stand Me Down. Not sure if Warren Z sued him, but he and Waddy Wachtel now get songwriting credits
I loved and still love The Smiths. All of the albums are fantastic but my favourite two
Are Hatful of Hollow and Louder Than Bombs. They were they ones I listened to most (but I played them all to death).
When Moz was recording Kill Uncle, he’d come to the students union at nearby Reading to see the live bands. The first time I saw him I thought “That bloke looks just like Morrissey” and thought nothing more of it. Then there was an announcement over the Tannoy: “Please do not disturb Mr Morrissey”. Which put the cat amongst the pigeons, as it were.
With the distain of the true disciple I resented those who came late to The Smiths, and dismissed the last two albums as sold-out pop. Girlfriend in a Coma? Fuck off. Obviously I now know I was wrong about that, and Johnny was just tired. If they’d taken a year or two off they’d have done great things, but hey ho.
When I was a staff nurse in A&E in Brighton I had a paediatric student nurse shadowing me for a week [before I get any smart comments, I’m qualified in paediatrics, a nurse training in paeds spent a week with us – I wasn’t being stalked by a nursing equivalent of Doogie Howser!]. We had gone for separate lunches until the Friday, where we got chatting about what she had done before nursing, as she was older than your typical student nurse. Turns out she used to work in a recording studio as the sort of housekeeper, running round after the bands, doing their washing, etc.
When I asked her which bands, she said the one she’d worked with most was The Smiths. I asked her more questions in the next 25 minutes than she asked me all week! Seems Morrissey was a bit of a loner, didn’t mix much with the other 3, usually had his head in a book, over in the corner, whilst the rest were a great bunch of lads. Who’da guessed?
I’m amazed there’s so much dislike of Meat Is Murder. What She Said, Rusholme Ruffians and That Joke Isn’t Funny Anymore are three great songs and if the second side tails off somewhat, it still has Andy Rourke’s bassline to Barbarism Begins At Home. Faced with the studio albums, it’s probably the one that I would reach for first.
To these ears, it’s their best studio album. And by studio, I’m making the claim that Rank is their best overall album. The problem with The Queen Is Dead album is not only that the songwriting is the most twee The Smiths ever were but the song The Queen Is Dead collapses like a souffle once the opening drum rolls are over and done with. The album never really recovers from that fluffing of its opening song.
Granted, some of this may be due to it being the last Smiths album I came to but it sounds like a disappointment after listening to the others. At times – Vicar in a Tutu and Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others – a caricature of a Smiths album.
Rank has a great selection of songs and the best of them sound roaring and full-throated. Marr said of The Queen is Dead, “To me, it was the MC5 playing ‘I Can’t Stand It’. I’d always felt let down by the MC5…when I first heard the MC5, it felt a little too gung-ho, too kind of testosterone-mad for me. I wanted to deliver what I imagined the MC5 to be – energy, coolness.”
The Rank version of The Queen Is Dead sounds like the MC5 tearing up I Can’t Stand It. It’s thrilling, exciting and passionate in every way that the studio version is not.
And the rest of the album is as good. His Latest Flame segueing into Rusholme Ruffians, Ask, a better version of What She Said than is on Meat Is Murder, London and the best version of Bigmouth Strikes Again. Even Vicar in a Tutu sounds decent on it.
Writing this down has made me want to listen to Rank again. But it’s likely the fault is mine…it may be that I want the Smiths to be more MC5, more Velvets and less achingly maudlin.
Marr is absolutely phenomenal in the first couple of minutes of Barbarism.
Don’t agree about studio Queen at all. Wasn’t particularly impressed with Rank, would give it another listen but I think I sold it
…And then read Hedgepig’s post below and it all balances out regarding The Queen Is Dead. Either way you can’t ignore it…
There are some records you remember exactly where and when you bought them. I bought The Queen Is Dead in the Gloucester branch of Our Price in August 1994. I know this because I’d just got back from a memorable post-GCSEs holiday with my family and it was the week before results.
I was browsing and found the CD for £4.99. I knew enough to know this was a Big Deal Album, and I had £30 or so to burn from my holiday job at Pizza Hut. So I snapped it up, and tried to enthuse with the girl at the counter over the utter bargain price for a record of this legendary stature. She was resolute in her refusal to be enthused.
Got it home. Take Me Back to Dear Old Blighty. That thunderous sampled drum loop, “her Very Lowness with her head in a sling”. Hooked doesn’t begin to cover it.
I need to listen to it now.
Tonbridge Our Price.
On my way home from somewhere, and in the throes of my first (and so far only) heartbreak.
I had never heard a Smiths album, so it was essentially sight unseen, so to speak, but I had a good track record in that Our Price; two years earlier I’d walked 30 mins each way to buy Doolittle without hearing so much as a note of the Pixies. To this day one of the most profitable hours I ever spent.
Got The Queen Is Dead home and, with my parents away somewhere or other, I remember sticking it on Dad’s fancy stereo and waiting to be impressed.
As the title track proceeded, a grim mood settled. Why me? How could life be so cruel? Would I ever be happy again? Etc etc.
I don’t think I heard a note of Frankly Mr Shankly, so busy was I feeling sorry for myself and cursing the universe.
Then I Know It’s Over began, and that first line hit me like a truck; perfect fusion of moment and music. I listened agape; it was as if Morrissey had a direct line to my very soul – thank god there was someone else on the planet who understood my pain.
And then it got to “because tonight is just like any other night”, and I literally burst out laughing. By the time the song finished, I had a firm sense of how utterly ridiculous I was being. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced that since; a lyric that reads your mind so thoroughly and then forces you to change it so abruptly. God, he was good. It was like having a mate put his arm round your shoulder; I get it, I’ve felt it too, but dear god please buck yourself up now.
The rest of the album is obviously gold. In Boy With The Thorn, I found a song that could so easily have been my adolescent theme tune. In There Is A Light That Never Goes out, one of the most beautiful, doomed yet romantic pieces of lyric imaginable.
I got back together with the girl. It was probably a mistake; she was absolutely barking mad, but huge fun. No regrets though, if there weren’t other compensations enough, the whole relationship would have been worth it for that glorious moment on the sofa, laughing through the tears and feeling fully seen. Music; bloody hell.
It absolutely got me from line 1, and by the time I laughed out loud at “she said “eh, I know you and you cannot sing”, I said “that’s nothing, you should hear me play pianooooo””, the deal was irrevocably sealed.
One of my favourite couplets …. ever.
I bought Smiths records in shops that weren’t Our Price, so I have no story to tell..
Rival Records, Park Street, Bristol.
You?
Revolver records, Mansfield. And Woolies for the singles, because they were cheaper.
Emotional crisis near the pick’n’mix…
Well you couldn’t buy Our Price records in Smiths.
“I remember walking down Portobello Road and out of a window came the sound of The Smiths. My life was changed forever. ”
Danny Kelly said that.
Me, I’ve never got The Smiths and I fear I never will.
I am clearly unworthy and most probably unhinged
Something we have in common, Lodey…the “life-changing” fervour passes me by completely.
Nowt wrong with not liking a extremely popular artist. David Bowie leaves me completely cold for example. Just one of those things.
Me too Lodes…I liked the jangle, but otherwise their music never spoke to me. Until, perhaps, this turned up on Early Doors.
This Charming Man on 7″ from the WH Smiths ex-chart bargain bin.
The Queen Is Dead from HMV in St. Albans with my gig-mate Gary (no, not that one). First play later that afternoon round his girlfriend Vikki’s house.
Why do I remember this shit?
Think I hears What Difference Does it Make on the top 40 countdown and went to HMV in Enfield next day to pick up the album.
Very misleading lead-off single, I think…
The Hatful version is just fantastic. These guys hit the ground running.
Girlfriend In The Tulips:
Big fan of all The Smiths albums, but must admit I haven’t listened to them in such a long time.
Agree with the love for ‘Well I Wonder’ – beautiful record.
I still occasionally give Morrissey’s solo work a listen – ‘Vauxhall & I’ is marvellous.
Never much of a fan or collector when it comes to music, (all artists/bands, given time, will release duffers/ have bad spells IMO), this thread has reminded me that Ver Smiffs are both a band who I bought everything as it came out and who I seldom play anymore (and not just because Morrissey’s pronouncements of recent years turn you away from hearing his singing voice).
After Yootha Joyce made an appearance on the cover of Ask, I was waiting for Brian Murphy to appear on the next one. Sadly they used some joker called something like Ellis Parsley… Wasted opportunity
The reaction to this thread has seriously exceeded my expectations. I thought it might vanish with a few grumbles as the band appeared to have been airbrushed from history thanks to Morrissey’s indiscretions. Some fantastic stories and memories prove they still mean an awful lot to some of us. Every album and every band member has had some positive reaction (even Mozza).
So I tried Strangeways again because I really want to love it but nope its about as far away from the thrill of Hand In Glove and This Charming Man as is possible to my ears but I’m not going to dwell on that and kill the vibe. So Morrissey you bigoted, racist, silly man you cannot ruin the memories of a bunch of middle aged men on the Internet….
Hand in glove
The sun shines out of our behinds
No, it’s not like any other love
This one is different, because it’s us
It’s not just a load of middle-aged blokes, Dave. My (then 16-y-o) daughter heard There Is A Light on an older friend’s playlist and asked if I’d heard it. I had the great pleasure of sitting her down and playing The Queen Is Dead on original vinyl. She then bought the CD in Fopp (and then asked me to rip it to her Fiio, but that’s life).
Only then did I mention not to check out the singer’s recent public views…
She has a Fiio?
I am amaze
Not
“Best Christmas present ever”
My 15 yr old is very aware of “How Soon is Now”, played a lot over here.
Another b side, of course.
So much of their best work was to be found on the flip..
Answer to the quiz question: Which B side was then issued as an A side on the next single?
Extrra track on the B side of the 12 inch only. That’s even more remarkable/careless.
think it was a B side on some 7 inchers too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William,_It_Was_Really_Nothing#Track_listing
Naturally I had the 12 inch (and I kept this one)
Rubber Ring is one of those rare songs about records and how important they are. If you’re not into the Smiths or Morrissey – at least we can all agree on the sentiment :
But don’t forget the songs
That made you cry
And the songs that saved your life
Yes, you’re older now
And you’re a clever swine
But they were the only ones who ever stood by you
and …
I’m here with the cause
I’m holding the torch
In the corner of your room
Can you hear me?
And when you’re dancing and laughing
And finally living
Hear my voice in your head
And think of me kindly
An example of a totally wonderful track originally tucked away on a B side. One of their best I think
In my top 5 Smiths songs, that. And the segue into ‘Asleep’ makes that record (Thorn In His Side 12″, IIRC) one of their absolute best.
Great, great song.
I often remind myself of it whenever Morrissey makes his latest right-wing pronouncement. He may be a twat but I’m forever in his debt.
My absolute favourite Smiths song. Honestly I can remember every nuance of his voice, I still don’t even understand my adoration of the song. Somehow it made me feel alive. He (Morrissey) didn’t stand by me but the song did.
Apologies for gratuitously extending this thread with one final thought, maybe… But while listening to Hatful Of Hollow today I was struck by the thought that Heaven Knows I’m Miserable Now is the ultimate The Smiths song. The song you’d play the Martians if they landed on earth asking “What’s the ultimate The Smiths song?” (Now there’s a plot for a movie @chiz ).
I mentioned previously how Marr’s guitar dances around Morrissey’s vocal and from the melancholy of the intro to the final drop of the outro Marr’s guitar is perfect. Cajoling and lifting the song where necessary always complimenting never over powering. Can one of the guitar players here shed any light on just how good it really is?
Rourke and Joyce do what they do so well in what feels like quite a complex song to keep time for. Understated yet perfect.
Then the lyrics that bring a nod of acknowledgement for every reason why he’s miserable now. A kick in the eye perhaps, for those who don’t care if he lives or dies. We’ve all been there and we recognise those feelings of often considered but never accomplished retaliation. If you’ve ever felt invisible, like you don’t exist or just never get a break you’ll know exactly how he feels.
Finally Morrissey’s oft maligned voice is never better, “Caligula would have blushed” pitched perfectly. There’s a moment where the tempo shifts ever so slightly as Morrissey pleads “Oh why do I give valuable time?” that is an real spine tingler.
A song that I’ve often stated I would want as my funeral song, taken by non Smiths fans as evidence of their general lack of tunes, weirdness and Morrissey’s inability to sing could actually be their greatest moment. I’ll stop now…
..AND the title is a play on “Heaven Knows I’m Missing Him Now” by the (T)ASTTRMH..
Who?
Shoeless Eurovision songstress and (There’s) Always Something There To Remind Me Hitmaker, Ms Sandie Shaw..
Ah. Married someone from my home town (Jeff Banks)
For me it’s between HKIMN and the follow up, William It Was Really Nothing. That opening couplet, with more towns and downs than is legal, then only goes and gets repeated. Majestic. And the Billy Liar allusions. Wow.
B-sides How Soon Is Now AND PPPLMGWIW. Good Lord they were good.
I wasn’t aware of allusions to Billy Liar, although I’m sure Dave will appreciate the link to The Associates.
‘Songs That Saved Your Life’ by Mark Goddard is interesting for showing the extent to which Moz ‘borrowed’ lines from films. It’s quite extensive!
It’s a good thing we had the golden age of Channel 4 to provide footnotes to Smiths records as they came out. They were always screening manky old black and white films. Even Work Is a Four Letter Word.
….and then Peter Sissons announced the plans for a future war.
Good post Dave.
It also showcases one of the most important and overlooked aspects of The Smiths’ output – the humour. So many people seem to miss that.
I was gonna post the same in my above response but I didn’t want the importance of my message to be diluted 🙄. It’s just lazy to say they were miserablist. It’s almost like some civ… er, people, don’t even listen to the lyrics.
My dad was of that opinion but I remember being in the car with him when Bigmouth was on the radio and he had a chuckle at “as the flames rose to her roman nose and her Walkman started to melt” after which he revised his opinion to , “He’s a moany bastard but his lyrics are good”.
Do they? I’ve always thought of Moz’s lyrics for their humour (and their poetry). Right from first hearing Reel Around The Fountain. It’s hilarious, from beginning to end. I think it was Rourke who said they all used to collapse laughing so often when Moz showed them his latest lyrics. (My favourite Smiths’ song though is the very unfunny Suffer Little Children.)
In the famous* “Good Lieutenants” interview with Rourke and Joyce they reveal that those lyrics were unknown to them until Moz was literally doing his shift in the vocal booth. They were, quite understandably, stunned.
(*among Smiths tragics)
“Music tragics” — i.e. every contributor to this message board — are not “people”. Or at least not normal people.
Normal people don’t dig Bert Weedon.
It’s impossible to listen to Cemetery Gates as anything other than comedy.
“A dreaded sunny day/so I meet you at the Cemetery Gates”.
Who wouldn’t laugh at that? It’s bang on.
Morrissey’s genius was to simultaneously embody and lightly parody the bedroom-bound teenager.
No one has ever done that stuff better, and it’s exactly the treatment you need at that age; a recognition that you’re not the only one who feels this way, a reminder that you’re nonetheless being preposterous, and that your affectations are glaring.
If you’re so clever, why are you on your own tonight?
Those lines are grimly funny – and then, as if offering a commentary on himself, he hits you with that thing about being gentle and kind which is both straightforwardly true and, in purely human terms, a brilliant thing to put on a pop record made for impressionable young folk (like “Ridicule is nothing to be scared of”)
The bit about being gentle and kind is one of a number of quotes on a big poster we had made for my kitchen. It’s absolutely wonderful; that thing that is so true, but no one else would ever come out and say, let alone off the back of “with your triumphs and your charms/while they’re in each other’s arms”. So good.
As Anthony said to Cleopatra, as he opened a create of ale, ‘Ooh, I say.’
The soil falling over my head….mother they’ve all got it in for me!
The guitar in this is one of my faves by Johnny Marr.
Edith in response to Moose’s post at 10.42
Also IRT 10:42
There’s a thread to be had from good/bad life advice given in songs. I remember a conversation with a friend about the lyrics to Three Steps To Heaven where he had remembered the “find a girl” and “kiss and hold her tightly” steps and – filthy minded sod – was wondering what the third step was. I had to remind him that these were steps 1 & 3 and step two “she falls in love with you” explained the concept of consent to horny young lads, which shows they were pretty “woke” back in 1960..
I believe we have previously gone through a blow-by-blow analysis of all the terrible relationship advice in the otherwise excellent Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn.
They definitely do. As MC Escher says, the Afterword won’t miss the humour, but the general public will.
Always the honour. The First Of The Gang To Die, one of his solo numbers that I love, manages to combine a Los Angeleno Mexican gang with Private Pike (‘such a silly boy’), it rhymes ‘bullet’ with ‘gullet’, there’s borderline Hilda Ogden (‘the first lost lad to go under the sod’) and then the hilariously grim: ‘And he stole from the rich and the poor, and the not very rich, and the very poor’.
Class. Another from the same album.
Monday – humiliation
Tuesday – suffocation
Wednesday – condescension
Thursday is pathetic
“Petty, pretty thieves” is a straight lift from Round the Horne:
Williams: Yes! I admit it! I’m a pretty thief!
Horne: You mean a petty thief.
Williams: WHO’S READIN’ THIS??
How did I neglect to mention the humour. I used to have this conversation endlessly with some of my “Can’t stand ’em they’re so bloody miserable” mates. I’m off to my darkened room to be alone…
….do they have one at the YWCA?
Funny thing. Even after days of a thread of almost unanimous praise (hey, where’s deram to point out that their biggest hit only got to number 10 and all their records were released in the dire 80s?) including my own, I still haven’t been moved to play any of their records, although I have simply had to spin Sandie’s Nothing Less Than Brilliant several times..
Can’t speak for DD – but I’ve been following the maxim “if you can’t say anything good, don’t say anything at all”. Having been on the receiving end of many anti-prog pile-ons over the years, I thought I should follow my own advice…
I played TQID (the track: I find the LP too filler-y for my Smiths snobber-y) after reading Hedgepig’s very accurate description. Mainly ‘cos I fancied a laugh.
Spending warm summer days indoors, writing frightening verse to a buck-toothed girl in Luxembourg.
That’s the work of a great wordsmith, who is relishing using language for comic effect and as a joy in itself, plus it is so musical. It just sings itself. Conveying so much on different levels, based on a unique world view. As good a lyricist as you can find.
A top-notch pop song that prominently includes the word “flatulent”. Priceless.
And in the age of pompous stadium rock stars pontificating about everything they thought we should care about, this honesty was refreshing:
“Does the body rule the mind or does the mind rule the body?…. I dunno….”
The brilliance of the lyrics is relentless on Still Ill..
“Under the iron bridge we kissed And although I ended up with sore lips
It just wasn’t like the old days anymore
No it wasn’t like those days
Am I still ill?”
Oh am I still ill?
In the days before we became such instant googling smartarses, watching a film and spotting a Smiths lyric was one of life’s pleasures.
Sleuth (Olivier to Caine) – “you’re a jumped-up pantry boy who never knew his place!”
A Taste of Honey – “I dreamt about you last night – I fell out bed twice!”
“We” in this context presumably meaning Smiths fans – I can’t say I’ve ever wanted to google a Smiths lyric to find out where Morrissey nicked it from…
You’re right, of course. The Sleuth reference was one I hadn’t picked up on before, or even read about. When Olivier says it to Michael Caine in that film, it was very much a wow moment for my brother and I.
Another one was a LWT continuity presenter saying “well it’s very cold without today, but not to worry…the sun always shines on LWT…”. I asked my dad what he meant by “without today” and he explained that it in this context “without” means “outside”.
Anyway, years and years later – A-ha songwriter bloke says that the title of their hit single “The Sun Always Shines on TV” was inspired by watching TV in a London hotel room one afternoon and the presenter said….
Apologies, BC – I was a bit dyspeptic this afternoon…
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/whats-on/food-drink-news/girlfriend-korma-inside-smiths-themed-22626238
” You played guitar on Golden Lights. Not me”
https://www.classicpopmag.com/2022/01/morrissey-johnny-marr/
“Just stop using my name as click-bait” says attention-seeking egomaniac, in press release which gets plastered all over the internet.
There’s only one thing worse than being talked about…
If Morrissey and Marr reunited for live shows as The Smiths and toured the States and Europe for 6 months, everyone involved could end up being very rich indeed.
IfI was a multi-media Svengali type with lots of media connections I’d get Morrissey and Marr to engineer a meaningless online stoush to whip up a bit of interest first, thereby making the eventual announcement even more of a big deal. This won’t be an option when they’re in their 70s. So if they are going to do it, they should be doing it now.
Yebbut but Moz…
“I can’t believe it, he’s been alone in that empty room and he’s still managed to start a fight…. bruises bigger than dinner plates”
They should. But only if they had a decent rhythm section…
If anyone is still reading…….
https://www.covermesongs.com/2022/01/the-40-best-smiths-covers-ever.html
No Bernard Manning, no sale