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Football Super League

by 155 Comments

I’m in, you’d be mad not to.

Tottenham have won 2 trophies (League Cup… oh, well done) in the last 100 competitions in which they have entered.
I want to see that quality side playing at the very top of the pyramid and I’m prepared to dig deep for the privilege.

Something as good as this rarely comes around more than once, lump on.

0

Comments

  2. Imagine the grandees of the breakaway Premier League being affronted by the idea of a breakaway European Super League. I’m shocked, I tell you, shocked.

  3. I’m a Spurs fan, but I’m conflicted about all this. Very flattering to be considered one of the ‘top six’ as we never bloody win anything, but very uncomfortable with the thought that it seems that wealth trumps achievement.

  4. So the big six would leave the Premier League? Or would this new European league run along side the Premier league..,I’m not clear. And if it doesn’t, with no relegation or promotion won’t it get a bit boring?

    • It would be a self-governing league so the big six would necessarily need to resign from the Premier League, and if not would most probably be expelled anyway. Yes, of course it would get boring quickly, but there are probably more than enough armchair fans around the world for whom the prospect of Real Madrid v Barcelona v Juventus v Bayern Munich v Man Utd again and again and again for all eternity sounds like the best video game imaginable.

    • I agree.

      The mad bubble that is elite-level football is long overdue its bursting.

      Let’s agree to let what Roy Keane memorably dismissed as “the prawn sandwich brigade” keep their super breakaway while the rest of us rediscover the joys of old-style fandom by supporting clubs further down the league.

    • Part of me understands and agrees with that, I hate the very anti-competitveness of the Super League idea. Good riddance (especially to Chelsea, who I wish only very bad things upon), and let’s have a more competitive top level where the fight is no longer between the comparative bank accounts of Saudi princes, Russian oligarchs and American financiers , but between broadly similar football clubs again.

      The owners of the big six understand that the possibilty of relegation (however slight) or the greater liklihood of failing to qualify for a European competition the following season is a not a route to greater profits. They want the commercial security of always playing the other biggest teams without the threat of losing that if their team aren’t good enough. The game becomes secondary to the business.

      And yet, for a small League One club like the one I support, it may prove a financial disaster. Whilst we may not rely entirely on the annual subsidy money that trickles down from the Premier League to EFL clubs, and though it may only be a tiny weeny fraction of what the PL earns from TV and commercial deals , it is still a very big deal to clubs like mine. Less money in the PL means substantially less for the rest of English professional football, and in some cases it could mean the final straw for some small clubs.

  8. Anyone who watched Arsenal (currently 9th in the league) struggle to a draw against a side heading for relegation will chuckle at their inclusion in a super league.

    It’s the franchise-loving American owners operating in a market of pure greed. I genuinely wonder: who wants to watch a European super league? Like any league, it’ll be pretty clear early on who has a chance of winning, so most of the games will be dead rubbers. No promotion or relegation, and no difference between finishing second or tenth. What’s a player’s motivation to actually try when they’re eighth in a super league?

    If the clubs involved think they’re going to make more money, just wait until player contracts come up for renewal. A player on £300,000 p/w will be on £800,000 p/w; a player ‘worth’ £50 million will be worth £150 million.

    I don’t like dealing in generalisations, so I’ve genuinely tried to think of a benefit that a super league might bring. Nope: can’t think of any.

  9. Arsenal haven’t won the league in nearly 20 years. Liverpool have won it once in nearly 30 years. Whilst Ipswich, Everton, Leicester, Derby, Aston Villa, Blackburn, Leeds and Nottingham Forest have all won it in the 60 years since Spurs last won it. The idea that these teams have been playing in (and winning) the ‘Champions’ League is laughable enough.

    But as a fan of a club outside the Premier League that has had to watch the way that league has routinely shafted the rest of the pyramid, as someone who has watched corrupt UEFA officials expanding the Champions League, which has subsequently led to the League Cup and then the FA Cup being as significant as the Johnstone Paint Trophy (or whatever it’s called now, after the Premier League clubs insisted their kids’ sides are allowed to take part), as someone who has watched corrupt FIFA officials line their own pockets by giving World Cups to places like Russia and Qatar, watching them all getting their knickers in a twist now that the monsters they helped to create have worked out they can do it by themselves is kinda fun.

    The sooner the bottom falls out of the whole lot of it the better. Last summer, when Liverpool, who had at least 12 players, who weren’t even training, getting paid £100k+ per week, one getting £200k+ per week, furloughed some of their office staff we hit a new low. All whilst over the water, Tranmere, who the Football League had decided to relegate, despite it looking like they were about to move out of the relegation zone (my team Barnsley entered the lockdown 8 points adrift of safety, but we were allowed to finish our season and escaped in the 91st minute of the final game of the season – there’s a record that will surely never be beaten, 10 consecutive months in the relegation zone without going down), had to lay off 6 office staff, because in League Two they wouldn’t be able to afford to keep them. It’s shameful what has happened to football.

  10. It’s akin to eating out at a fine restaurant for years and then deciding to eat your own leg instead because it might be better. It’s that level of greed and stupidity.

  11. Let them go. Don’t allow them back, ever, and sling them out of the FA Cup too, permanantly.
    I hope people realise that their small, local, non league club will welcome them with open arms and that this is where “real” football now resides, the rest having long ago sold their souls.

    • That’s so true.
      I remember going off on a beautiful Spring day a few years ago to Wingate and Finchley (Ray Davies apparently played for Finchley Reserves!). Superb ground, Art Deco style main stand, a view of Alexandra Palace, club bar, it was a great game.
      On the same day Arsenal were playing (the pre-monied) Man. City and I had to wade through thousands people to get to my game. I didn’t do it, but I felt like saying to one of them “it’s going to be 2-0,” such was the jaw-dropping predictability of the League at the time. No one had a clue what would happen at Wingate… actually Leyton pulled off an improbable away win.
      Arsenal won 2-0.

      I definitely got the better deal.

      Another time I pitched up at Enfield Town (the first fans-run club, just before AFC Wimbledon) for a play-off match. I had to dash from work and hadn’t eaten and so picked up a sandwich and a coffee at the ground. 90p. This was about ten years ago, not fifty years ago! Tottenham would have charged £9, and the sandwich and coffee would have been of a distinctly lower standard.

      • Aaah @deramdaze , used to enjoy my regular away trips to Wingate and Finchley, such a very friendly club, run by some nice people.
        And Enfield Town with it’s art deco stand…you don’t see that sort of thing among the identikit new stadiums.

        • Yep, that Enfield game was at the Brimsdown ground before they moved to the Athletic Stadium. What a remarkable building they now have there. It feels like being in a Poirot episode walking up that staircase!

          Last time I went (about 2013) I sat at the bar, had a couple of pints of Guinness, properly poured, watched the football on the TV whilst reading their fantastic (much, much better than any Premier League one I’ve ever seen) programme – a work of art, before going out to watch the game at 3 p.m.
          After all that, I had a considerable percentage of my £20 note intact.

          And you’re right, really friendly at the gate and around the ground.

  12. Get rid of the money grabbing arrogant bastards. The premier league will be more of a level playing field without them (and Tottenham). The whole structure is wrong and perpetuates their position at the top of the elite league through buying power. The money swilling around in their buckets could be used to help struggling clubs in this game they profess to love. When a Middle Eastern govt owns a British football club there is something clearly wrong. Yesterday my club scraped a 1-0 win at Rotherham. Luckily Lee Bowyer came back and helped us avoid a certain relegation under the clueless Karanka. Some members of the BCFC collective drove up to Rotherham and placed banners in prominent places on the drive to the stadium in clear view of the CEO. Some banners proclaimed their 100 percent support for Bowyer and the team but the telling one was ‘BCFC made in Brum – 100 percent destroyed in Hong Kong and China’ a sentiment that it is hard to disagree with. Football became a passion for me in the late 60’s when there was no foreign ownership and very few foreign players. The Bundesliga looks after its German talent much better than we do which perhaps explains why they have fared better internationally than we have. This super league if it happens could actually benefit the smaller clubs as would give them the opportunity to compete where they previously couldn’t. However only if the Super league is instead of rather than in addition to. So I would be glad to see them go never to return.

    • As hard as they’ve had it (and they’ve had it very hard indeed), the Blues haven’t been nearly aa badly fucked over by their owners as CoventryCity – my team and your current co-tenants at St Andrews

      • Deserved your (customary) win (against us) yesterday mate. The first team that managed to work us out and cancel us out, although the second looked a mile offside. It looked like it was us that had played on Thursday, not you. Death, taxes and Barnsley to lose at Coventry.

        • Apologies about that, PW but we really neeeded the points. Think you guys are still in with a shot of the play offs. In which case best wishes that the Tykes get to have a day in the sun at Wembley in the final.

          Given that clubs going up are odds on to go straight back down again and often go into financial freewill shortly thereafter, not sure if promotion to the EPL is the sort of fate you should wish upon a club nowadays.

      • @Sitheref2409 not only is Bowyer proving to be a managerial saviour but the only trophy he ever won in his playing career was with Birmingham – a rarity for both of us.
        When he came to us as a player it was on loan from West Ham. Some of our fans signed a petition asking the owners not to allow him anywhere near our club.
        I bet the people who signed that petition have a different opinion now.
        Football is a funny old game that’s for sure.
        Seeing him in interviews he seems laid back and affable – nothing akin to his past reputation – perhaps he has turned over a new leaf.

        • I like Bowyer. Very good player – gave everything and was not short of skill. I think he was a bit of a twat when he was young and his ego was probably too big. But he seems to have sorted himself out (as have many other players who had run ins with the law) and its good to see him doing something good.

          • Good point. Lots of blokes are d*ckheads in their early twenties and grow out of it quietly, but footballers are under the spotlight from the start (and have the added negative factors of too much money too soon and probably an environment not ideal for personal growth). So a player can be branded as a bad ‘un and maybe never be able to shake off that image no matter how they conduct themselves afterwards. Of course, the majority of those who are sh*ts at 22 will continue to be such for the rest of their lives, but that’s also true for plumbers, accountants and high court judges..

  13. The timing as well… in the middle of a world pandemic when no one can even go to their local football club.
    Also, a few hours before an F.A. Cup semi-final between two of the “other” clubs, a competition that Chelsea et al have gone out of their way to make the tournament (after Christmas) it is today… i.e. distinctly less prestigious than winning the Essex Senior League.

  15. I have been perusing the Bluemoon forum this morning, a Manchester City site, and the response there seems to be near universal outrage and despair. A sense of shame that the club has signed up to this scheme, with no consultation, and with most fans threatening to disown the club. I feel the same way, and my fifty year association with MCFC will come to an end if the current custodians follow through on their greedy and hubristic ambitions. It makes a mockery of City ‘Til I Die.

  16. It won’t happen.

    But if it did I would like to see them all re-admitted into the league once it fails. Conference should do it, they would welcome the gate fees. The clubs can then try for promotion in the usual way.

          • And think of what the revenues would do for the lower league clubs. 6 full houses for a season, then 3 more (at least). Wonderful top up.
            I think the lower league teams loved the presence of Man City, Leeds, Sunderland etc. amongst them because the brought so many fans to away games and attracted non-season ticket holders. (Wednesday too?)

    • I rather think it will – I hope I’m wrong.

      The owners aren’t in this to be in football. It’s all about the money for them, and the amounts being offered here will make them think that they don’t need all the fans, just ‘enough’, and over the long term things will settle down.

      One of the things I’m grateful for in rugby is that precious few of the owners/backers are in it for the money; that has to be true, because there isn’t enough money for it. There’s been more than one – and I think it was Barwell at Saints who said it explicitly – that said they got into it knowing they would lose money, and they were doing it for the sake of the club and the game.

      These plans are a fucking disgrace, pure and simple.

  17. LFC fan here. We face missing out on the Champions league next season, maybe even Europe. That will have an impact on our income and ability to keep or attract new players.
    I still don’t want the super league.
    (It’s not a super league anyhow if it doesn’t have Ajax or Bayern)

    • If Ajax or Bayern aren’t in it, then it must surely be a non-starter. Are any German clubs involved? Bayern are surely the biggest in Germany so does bring into doubt the word “Super”

      • With Sky Sports touting every Sunday there’s three games on as Super, think the word has, like its first cousins “amazing” and “journey”, become completely devalued these last few years.

      • In Germany, top clubs have an ownership structure which gives fans a big say in the running of their club. Not to AFC Wimbledon levels, but significant nonetheless. Therefore it is much harder for Bayern Munich to walk off and join a Super League on a whim. But I’d be astonished if they don’t have an open invitation to join it whenever they can.

        As for Ajax, sadly their days as a European giant are long past and only those of us who fondly remember Dutch teams of the 1970s still consider them a major force. Still, if Spurs and Arsenal can be involved, you have to wonder why Ajax aren’t.

        • Simple. Ajax don’t have the financial muscle of Spuds and the Arse.

          Those behind the project will be desperate for Bayern, PSG and (probably) Borussia Dortmund to sign up as the last 3 permanent members.

            • Never said that they were – just that those in will be desperate for them to do so. The ownership model of German clubs will make it difficult for them to join – clubs must be at least 49% fan owned in Germany. PSG’s President is a big noise in UEFA, and hasn’t stepped down from the big club’s organisation, which the 12 named clubs have. I suspect that PSG are waiting to see which way the wind blows before they commit.

            • It’s more likely that PSG and Bayern have chosen to keep their cards closer to their chest, or weren’t willing to be part of the initial fanfare. For the leverage that the “elite” teams are seeking it probably doesn’t matter if they are in or not.

  18. There’s a reconfiguration of the European Champions League on the cards – this could be it. But it shouldn’t be a closed shop with permanent members. The competition must be open to allow clubs to grow through the pyramid (eg AFC Wimbledon) or go through the ” mighty have fallen” phase (eg Man City a few years ago).
    If it is a closed shop, how do we get the fairytale story (like Leicester winning the Prem) or non league players coming through to international recognition (Ritchie Lambert, Jamie Vardy).
    Hoping this is a money grabbing thing which will turn to be a damp squib. Seems like no supporters groups are behind it – at all.
    Probably a great business idea, but not a great one for sport.

  20. People will come.

    They might turn their backs on the oblivious owners, but they’ll pay their ticket and show up to do so.

    The popular revolt against the management of football has been predicted for the last 30 years. All that has happened is that management has become more corrupt and less accountable.

    The tickets and shirts will be bought, the matches will be watched. People will come.

  21. Taking US sport as the model for any new league, it’s interesting to consider what that would mean. Firstly, the likely need for some sort of draft system to avoid the scenario where the same team or teams win every year, for ever. Secondly, that means no transfer fees and a reduced capacity for the richest clubs to simply hoover up all of the best players. This means the likes of Barcelona, Man Utd etc periodically scuffling around in the lower third of the table for years on end. I wonder how the reality of that would go down.

    Thirdly, it’s interesting to note that only New York and L.A. have two teams in the NFL,NBA or MLB divisions. Following that model, it seems unlikely that London would retain three teams, or Manchester and Milan two teams,for very long. One ‘franchise’ would soon pop up under a new badge in Moscow, Peking or Dubai. That means that one of Chelsea, Man City, Spurs or Arsenal would cease to exist, so its not all bad news 🙂

  22. I suspect there will be some shabby compromise out of all this which looks after the ‘big’ clubs, keeps them in domestic leagues whilst giving them still more European competition but has some fig leaf protection for the notion of promotion and relegation. It says everything about the moral vacuum at the heart of English football ownership and leadership that no less than half of the twelve clubs are English.

  23. I’m a Spurs fan would be embarrassed to see them taking part in this. As things stand they don’t even look like qualifying the Europa League next season, but this would put them up amongst Europe’s elite. And the fact that elite would be defined by money rather than achievement is a further embarrassment.

    A plague on all of them!

  24. Meantime Jose is sacked. Not before time, he should never have been appointed in the first place. But to sack him less than a week before a cup final (even if it is the League Cup) is extraordinary. Either, as the rumours have it, he refused to take training out this morning because of the ESL proposal (seems unlikely) in which case his credentials as a man of the people are re-established, or Levy is sacking him now because it would be a little harder in the unlikely event that they win on Sunday.

    Levy has this reputation as an astute club Chairman and I suppose an indication of this is that laughably he has managed to keep Spurs in the group of supposed big clubs. But in terms of their performance on the pitch he has been hopeless. In his twenty years at the club they have won precisely one trophy, the League Cup, their worst twenty years since they first won the League in 1951. In that time he has been through nine managers, mostly disastrous. Any that have shown signs of making a success of it, like Martin Jol, and above all, Mauricio Pochettino have been sacked the minute they have had a downturn in form and disastrously replaced.

    Pochettino in particular offered an opportunity to put faith in a manager for the long term and allow him to build something. Instead we have this merry go round of ever more desperate attempts to bring someone new in who can immediately turn it around and win things overnight. Levy’s record here is 0% success so I’m not holding my breath for the next one.

  25. Musing further on this, another potential comparator is with the IPL. Limited number of teams with players frequently moving between teams. Some people I know in India inevitably end up supporting favourite players, rather than teams. One Keralan friend used to support Chennai because he liked MS Dhoni, as there is no team In Kerala ( population 35million). His loyalties have now moved on to Rajasthan, as they are captained by Sanju Samson, who is from Kerala. They are based in Jaipur, which is 1500 miles away, about the same as London is from Moscow.

    • Yet the IPL is by some distance the most financially successful cricket competition ever, and is now the third wealthiest sports league globally, behind only the NFL and the English Premier League.

      • No doubt, albeit it , like most American sports, of little interest to most people elsewhere in the world. It’s also similar to, say, basketball, in that there are loads of games and I doubt most people can remember or distinguish one game from the next. Nothing intrinsically wrong with that, but I do wonder whether the shift in the nature of fandom this involves will result in rather bigger changes than the fans of some of the proposed ESL teams might envisage. I wonder , for example, how many Manchester United games will actually be played in Manchester. We shall see.

        PS Also worth noting that in some parts of India, including Kerala, the number of young people I see playing cricket reduces each time I visit, with football becoming more and more prevalent.

  26. There’s nothing to worry about here. Boris and company will put a stop to this; he’s against elites apparently.

    I would have thought this falls foul of competition law but it’s a long time since I worked in that field so I might be wrong.

  27. Arsenal and Spurs battling it out for bottom place in perpetuity. Literally any team being able to compete for trophies again. Players being forced to choose 500k a week with The Liverpool Kickers or 20k a week with Everton and a chance to play for their country. Games tucked away on The ESL channel with nobody watching. The Premier League becoming exciting again. What’s not to love about this idea? Ban them all now. The game will survive without them. Leeds v Villa was a huge game once. It can be again.

  28. Please leave…oh and dont come back…it is kind of funny though…the Premier League and its evolving tale of greed, eating and consuming each other but getting their wishes where there will never be relegation/promotion etc…I will continue to worship at the real Theatre of Dreams: Edgeley Park, Stockport

  29. My guess is it won’t happen. The super league alone isn’t enough to sustain clubs – they expect to be able to remain in their domestic leagues and also invite a few “non-elite” to play alongside them so that they can be relegated. Who could turn that down eh? I don’t think they can truly go it alone, so this is just upping the bidding in terms of what they will get.

    There’s certainly a lot of interest in such a league from outside the UK. Not only are these the teams that sell so well in Asia and Nth America, but most domestic European leagues are two horse races, year in year out. They want more cash rich fixtures, whilst the UK “elite” want guaranteed status without the fiddly requirement to actually play well enough to justify it. The prospective league is heavily weighted to the UK “brands”, and as yet don’t have any teams from France or Germany.

    I reckon it will result in more cash for the brands with the most clout, and some relief from pointless domestic cup fixtures.

  30. I like football but I really can’t be bothered with the Premiership or Champions League any more. I find it so difficult to care which mega-million bucks business brand wins or loses. I much prefer going to watch lower league games- or even amateur knockabouts in the park of a Sunday. Much more real somehow. Done for the love of playing.

    • Having watched the cup tie on Saturday I agree. If these are the cream with a boring 1-0 result full of passing back to the goalie and endless tap tap God help you. I remembered why I gave up watching.

    • I thought that. I thought – I’ll watch Oxford United, a local team, down to earth, grassroots football. It was dire. Endless route one hoofing, players with a dreadful first touch, in a mostly empty ground with absolutely zero atmosphere. I lasted around half a dozen matches.

      And it is the case that some Prem matched are just as grim – I’ve watched a few this season. But there’s also some – indeed a lot of – top quality football being played by some of the very best players in the world.

      • I’m sorry to hear that, it sounds as if it was as much to do with the ground.
        When in London I pretty much stopped going to all seater grounds, a factor which is not an option now I’m in Cornwall anyway.

        One issue in choosing a match for me was sunshine! I didn’t like going to football or rugby grounds on a hot day, so I’d often pick a game purely on “is there shelter?” at Boreham Wood, Chingford RFC, Wingate etc.
        The remarkable thing was if I turned down a humdinger top-of-the-table match for this reason in favour of a top v. bottom option, the game I’d go to, purely on shelter/staying out of the sun, would be the cracker.
        Chingford RFC v. Rochford RFC… Chingford second… Rochford without a win all season… I had it down as 60-8… finished 3-3.

        I started going to more and more perverse games as a result.
        The more middle of the table or lopsided the fixture, the more likely it was I’d go. Honestly, it really worked!

        Not really surprising because most of the Chelsea-Man. Utd. type games seem to be awful, but the Villa-Newcastle or Burnley-Leeds matches will have far more about them.

      • I go and watch Hitchin sometimes. Classic local ground, cheap beer, burger or hot dog or cheese fries from the steel turn walk home after the game. Actually fun if a little lacking in the finesse department.

        • Yea – I watched Burton Albion before they got a new stadium and went pro. The football was pretty industrial but it was easy to just rock up and watch, and with the bonus of an occasional encounter with Brian Clough thrown in.

          • My introduction to live football was lowly Bangor City at their old Farrar Road ground (before it was transformed into an Asda supermarket and before the games were played at a soulless ground on the outskirts). I loved that level though and I still do. To be honest I can’t really care about the silky skills of the great stars. I have a soft spot for the hoofy, shouty, shots-way-over-the-bar-and-the-ballboy-has-to-fetch-it-from-people’s-back-garden kind of thing.

  31. One question which doesn’t seem to have been answered in all this is: where’s the money coming from and who’s backing it? TV subscriptions? If so, who? Sky and BT have paid big bucks for lengthy contracts to televise the existing competitions and surely they won’t want to fork out again for the privilege of televising a new one.

    All the fan groups seem to be against it, but this last season and a half has demonstrated to the “big” clubs that you don’t need fans in the stadium to be successful and make money, you just have to sell TV subscriptions and replica tat to any fool who’ll pay up, wherever in the world they are. That must appeal to the Yanks, who are used to sports franchising, whereby a team is re-located lock, stock and barrel if it suits the owner. As Ernie said above, this could mean that in years to come, if Abramovich or the Glazers or whoever decides there’s more cash in having their club based in Moscow or Dubai than in London or Manchester, then that’s where they’ll go and sod the fans. Be careful what you wish for, rich clubs!

    • JP Morgan are reported to be offering $6bn in financing, with $3.5bn going to each club on start up for “infrastructure” changes. The FT reckons forecast revenue would be around $4bn a year from TV and sponsorship, so each club could expect to trouser another $250m + each year from participation.

      The Guardian reported today that Barcelona are £1bn in debt and on the edge of financial disaster. Real Madrid were unable to afford a single major signing last summer. and Juventus have to find around £100m by the end of June.

      • Struggling financially despite billion dollar TV contracts? Oh, that will be because they pay many of their players 10s of millions a year I guess. There’s an easy solution to that.

        • I doubt the share of TV rights going to Barcelona is anywhere close. BT paid £400m for a whole season. It would need a lot of other broadcasters paying that or more to see one club earn a billion. Which is sort of why the breakaway makes sense to them. Why share to fees if you could avoid it.

          • I didn’t say each club earns a billion. A successful team may make around 100 million from worldwide TV rights. Guessing income from fans is around 30 or 40 million a year? So pay your players accordingly so that you don’t get in debt. Pretty straightforward, they will still all do very well at a top club.

            [edit] Liverpool made around 175 million last year from TV money.

            • A large part of the pain the clubs are feeling now is the loss of ticket sales because of the pandemic and all the spin offs – match day merchandise and catering. They didn’t see that coming more than anyone else.

              They could try and get players to take wage cuts to cut costs – or they could try to get a bigger slice of the Champ League revenue.

    • I know there can’t ever be too much money, but really, what the hell do Sheikh Mansour and Roman Abramovich want an extra few (hundred) million for? At their financial level it can’t be about the money, and the public response to this utter nonsense has very quickly turned out the opposite to giving them the prestige they enjoy by owning a PL Club.
      Of the ‘Top Six’ owners, I can only see the Glazers being in it for the actual money.

      • You don’t think Stan Kroenke at Arsenal isn’t looking at the money.
        My Arsenal mates complain that is all he’s interested in and is not too bothered about trophies because the cashflow keeps him happy.

  32. The aspect of the Super League that its backers don’t seem to have considered is this – the number of meaningless games that will be played.
    It’s likely that in any season four, maybe five teams, will contest the championship. These teams will emerge quite early in the season and fight it out amongst themselves. With no threat of relegation there is nothing for the remaining clubs to play for, except completing the fixture list.
    It would be even worse for that league were one or two teams to emerge and dominate a season from early on.
    A pox on them, I say.

    • They would probably have play-offs similar to basketball or (ice) hockey in the US/Canada.

      In the NHL there are 82 regular season games (naturally this would be less in football) to reduce 31 teams (24 US, 7 Canadian) to the 16 that contest the play-offs. Then there is a straight knockout competition but with each match-up being best of 7. For me the season only really gets going when the playoffs start when each game become super meaningful.

      The teams that finish at the bottom get first picks in the draft system, that tends to mean periods of dominance are shorter than in some other sports. Can also mean games with weakened teams at the end of the season when the play-offs are out of reach.

      Games are played pretty much 7 days a week with staggered kick-off games and every game is live on TV somewhere.

      I could envisage something similar in this European league especially if they no longer play in domestic leagues.

      • “The Super League is a new European competition between 20 top clubs comprised of 15 founders and 5 annual qualifiers. There will be two Groups of 10 clubs each, playing home and away fixtures within the Group each year. By bringing together the best clubs and best players in the world, the Super League will deliver excitement and drama never before seen in football.

        Following the Group stage, 8 clubs will qualify for a knockout tournament, playing home and away until the single-match Super League championship, in a dramatic four-week end to the season.

        Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues.”

  33. A quick thought about broadcast rights.

    If this so called big 6 leave the premier league, won’t sky TV go straight to the lawyers & demand that they stay until they complete their contract?

    Could this happen or will the money men just say – walk away, we will pay any fines?

  34. Cricket is the sport of the future.

    Football can sod off.

    If The Hundred gets traction this summer on the BBC many casual occasional sports viewers might find a new home….I hope.

  35. The Super League will be as meaningful as Harlem Globetrotters exhibition matches.

    One branding solution could be to call all the teams the (club name) “Rebels”, “Mavericks” or “Desperados” featuring big-money players towards the end of their careers playing each other in Dubai, LA or Beijing or wherever. The COVID era and the Qatar World Cup will show us that real crowds aren’t necessary to generate the big TV bucks.

    The “proper” teams continue as essentially youth squads with those players representing their club and country in front of large crowds as they normally would. Some will stay with traditional format but others will follow the dough once they reach their late 20s.

    For the players it will be one or t’other. Once you join the join the travelling circus you cannot play for your country or compete in domestic competitions or the Champions League.

  36. I’m reminded of the top clubs’ general contempt for fans from my final, and, at the time, increasingly rare meetings with them.

    I used to love going to F.A. Youth Cup games in London.
    Hornchurch, Waltham Forest, Ilford, Orient… saw them all play. No problem.

    Two games – Tottenham v. Middlesbrough and West Ham v. Man. Utd. (on TV quite late in the tournament – a shockingly bad game in which I was praying a player would score – one did – so there wouldn’t be extra time)… could you get a programme at either?
    Not on your life, and, on both occasions it seemed like a badge of honour to the officials to tell you exactly that.
    West Ham contrived to print about 200 in a crowd of 5,000.

    It wasn’t such a big deal, I guess, but why wouldn’t you print enough copies for those in attendance?
    I got one each time, just said “I’m looking at a player.”
    Amazing how effective that seemed to be.

    Another thing that seemed to crop up, though I never went to such a game, would be a Youth game at Arsenal or Chelsea, say, at which no spectators were admitted.
    Never used to happen, crept in about 10 years ago.

    I distinctly got the feeling that the thing these clubs hated most of all were the people who had found a loophole in which they could enjoy a side of their franchise (the most enjoyable bits – the history and the minor fixtures) without being a “customer.”

  37. Clubs already signed up 23-year contracts apparently.

    As the main market for this sort of thing will be in Asia, can’t really see the likes of the Glazers and Levy et al losing too much sleep over fan boycotts in the UK. Two and a half billion punters is a lot of potential buyers for over-priced club scarves and team home, away and third strips.

    As for breaching existing broadcast contracts with the likes of Sky and BT, I would imagine the greedy fucks have already started looking into setting up their own TV platform.

    What might hurt the turncoat clubs and their owners is if the FA and EUFA/FIFA collectively grow some balls.

    Kicking the clubs out of all domestic and international competitions would be a brave first step. Banning all of their players from representing their countries would be another way to make them suffer for their arrogance and avarice.

    Not sure how quickly such bans could be enforced – but if not the start of next season then as soon as it’s legal/practical for the football authorities to do so.

    Aside from every game essentially being meaningless, I think the ESL’s real problem is going to be its being top heavy with English clubs.

    • I’m no expert on the contracts but I think Sky and BT are contracted to the relevant leagues and football bodies, not the clubs, so if the leagues expel the clubs I’m not sure how the teams become liable. And there’s a clear market waiting for them in the form of Facebook, Amazon, Disney etc who are v keen to get a slice of the top tier the game.

      As for the players – why should’t they play for the highest paying team? It’s a short career – they are pro sportsmen not social workers. If it means they can’t play in the occasional national team game that actually means something, will they really care? How much sleep would Kane lose over being barred from England vs Luxembourg?

      • Not everything is about money.

        Kane is very proud to have been made captain of England. Unusually for a footballer, he’s also remained astonishingly loyal to the perennially underperforming club he followed as a boy,

        As a result, I think he’d be pretty gutted to be barred from leading England out vs Luxembourg.

          • If the players refuse to take part in the ESL, then the greedy owners who sign their clubs up for the venture are fucked.

            It’s that simple.

            Happened before in the early 1960s when players like Jimmy Hill and George Eastham challenged the absurdity of the maximum wage.

            Before they did so, players of the quality of Jimmy Greaves could receive no more than £20 a week for playing in club games that regularly drew crowds of up to 80,000.

            As odious and avaricious as the Glazers of today (albeit on a smaller more localized scale), the club chairmen of the early 60s capitulated PDQ.

            • From Wikipedia

              During 1960 the Professional Footballers’ Association (PFA), led by Jimmy Hill, organised a campaign seeking the abolition of the maximum wage, which then stood at £20 per week, and of the retain and transfer system.[1] Following talks involving the PFA, the Football Association, the Football League and the Ministry of Labour, the Football League committee offered a gradual increase in the maximum to £30, taking place over five years. At a PFA meeting in London, 250 players voted unanimously for strike action. Two further meetings elsewhere in the country brought the total to 712 players, of whom 18 voted against strike action.[2] On 9 January 1961 the League made a revised proposal, but PFA members rejected it by a three to one margin.[3] On 18 January, three days before the planned strike, the parties agreed to an immediate abolition of the maximum wage and the strike was called off.[2]

            • My point was why punish players by banning them from international games? That’s not the same thing as asking for a boycott of the entire new competition. Which has about as much chance of happening as Boris’s “legislation bomb” making any difference. If the requirement to stay in the domestic leagues is met, are players saying “I’m all right for Saturday boss, but I’m not playing on Weds”. I would imagine would put players at risk of breach of contract with their clubs, their sponsors and everyone else who has their hand out.

              Hill and Eastman’s actions took place at a time when football was so different I don’t see any relevance now – it wasn’t the global phenomenon it is now, with the streaming platforms we have now, with player contracts changed out of all recognition.

              Best way to deal with this grubby endeavor? Don’t watch it, don’t buy the merch, and make it clear to the sponsors that they are on your shit list as well. Unlikely to change much I’m sorry to say but better than expecting the players to be the fix for their employers actions.

              • Unfortunately, the owners of the breakaway clubs couldn’t give a fuck whether you or I or indeed anyone else in the UK watches it.

                They’re positively drooling at the the prospect of the millions of “customers” in who who’ll not only tune in for every match but also happily fork out for all the over-priced tat that goes with it.

      • Some will care about their national teams, others won’t. If, as is still a possibility, the Super League ends up more Globetrotters than apogee of the game, then some players won’t bother and some players will. In much the same way that some basketball players are happy to play for the New York Nicks because they are make shed loads of money, even though they haven’t won anything in , what, 50 years.

  38. If, as suggested, the players of the breakaway clubs will be barred from International games, this could be interesting.
    Imagine …
    Harry Kane in a Leicester shirt
    Mo Salah at Wolves
    Harry Maguire turning out for Oldham Athletic
    Kevin De Bruyne at Brentford

  40. Good point mentioned above about the Harlem globetrotters exhibition games.

    I am being serious here, with no relegation & guaranteed “qualification” each year, could some of the clubs (hello north London), lose their competetiive edge?

    I am sure counting the money passes the time, but I am sure they would miss the medals.

    Harry Kane hasn’t won a thing & I am sure he would like to.

    ’

    • The theory is that Spurs continue in the Prem League, but get to play in the new Champions league without the worry of having to qualify each year. So there’s everything to play for – a Premiership medal – as well as European glory. Expectations are that the lucky elite will play in both

      What’s harder to say is whether teams would lose interest in Premier league wins if the European places are no longer at stake, and maybe rest players. Do teams want to win the Prem because it’s the Prem, or just qualify for Europe? Some teams financial models seem to require both. I’m imagining that fans, sponsors, rights holders for broadcast of the domestic league games will lose interest fairly quick, in which case any gains from elite status could evaporate pretty quick.

  45. Whatever happens now, if the collective might of the rest of the premier league didn’t have absolute contempt for Tottenham plc, the Chelsea Laundry Co. etc., they surely have now.
    What took them so long?

    Also, I keep hearing about, and this is definitely connected with a lot of stuff we talk about on here about television and pop music, young people not having the patience to sit through the 90 minutes it takes to play a football match (erm… there is a gap in the middle!), and that something needs to be done to help them with this situation (see “cricket”).

    Can I say this in polite company?
    If there is any truth in this, and presumably Tottenham Hotspur plc and the Chelsea Laundry Co. do significant research on such matters to suggest it is… “young people” can go f*** themselves.

  46. Looks like it’s all up. So the question now is – what on Earth were they thinking? They must have known that such an explosive announcement would get a huge backlash. Did they really believe they could pull it off? Or was it more cyclical; Did they think it would give them more bargaining power to gain control over the current European competitions? Either was they just look utterly stupid and incompetent.

    And that includes City and Chelsea who should get precisely no kudos for being the first to throw in the towel. They should never have signed up to this in the first place.

  47. Interesting that the owners of the first two clubs to back out of this – Abramovich at Chelsea and the Mansours at Man City – were the two who effectively use their clubs as fig leaves too deflect attention from larger, less pleasant issues – Abramovich for his close mate, Vladmiir Putin, and the Mansours who have grown fat on the back of the UAE’s sub-human treatment of Third World workers and appalling human rights record.

    Like Abramovich, most owners of the Shameful Six would seem to hardly ever go to their club’s matches. Anyone here seen/know if there are any figures for such (non) attendances? Would love to see them

    Having swallowed indignity after indignity since the EPL set up in the early 90s, surely the time has now come for soccer fans to start lobbying the government to force the FA and EPL to change the rules regarding what makes someone “fit and proper” to run a football club.

    Be great if we could get rid of the FSGs, Glazers and Levys et al and move towards substantially fan-based ownership as they’ve done in Germany. Bayern Munich let’s not forget were probably the biggest notable absentee from the stillborn €$£.

      • Both clubs also deeply in debt, I gather, and the most desperate for the cash. They’ll probably be the last two to give up, for the time being at least.

      • Let’s unpack that a bit.
        The clubs are owned by the fans.
        The fans want the best players.
        The best players cost the most.
        The club cannot afford them, so borrows to buy them.
        There is no real way to pay off that debt.
        And here we are.

        I am just saying that fan ownership is clearly no barrier to financial meltdown.

          • Depends how you define success. German football is tightly regulated, financial transparency is much higher and there’s a real risk of not being allowed to play if a team can’t demonstrate solvency. Not that it’s stopped several clubs from nearly going under.

            The regulation has also prevented any foreign owners swooping in the buy the brand and saddle the club with debt. As a consequence most teams have a fan based majority holding – although 3 are owned by German companies (VW, Bayer and SAP).

            The tighter governance clearly has some benefits. The teams can’t borrow money to buy in the expensive players from other leagues, so their national team has prospered due to the domestic teams having to rely on – and develop – home grown talent. That said, the same team have won the league for the last 10 years on the bounce and there’s plenty of criticism within Germany, arguing that their rules are going to ensure Bayern Munich stay on top for years to come, and whilst it’s great having such a strong national team, it would be even better to have a domestic league with greater variety of players as well as winners.

  48. What is clear, now the hyper-madness has subsided, is that football needs a level of governance to save it from the day-to-day madness.

    Last season, Barcelona and Real Madrid received €165 million and €156 million euros respectively in tv money, but they still can’t make a profit. Barca are, apparently, a billion in debt, but they’re happy to give one player a contract worth over €500 million euros.

    Man Utd have a goalkeeper – on the bench – who is their highest-paid player. I can’t recall the last time Juan Mata started a game, and he’s earning over £8 million a year.

    Sadly, the governance won’t happen. The very clubs who need it won’t vote for it.

    • Surely debt is fine as long as it’s being serviced. If a Billion Euros plus other outgoings (salaries etc) cost less per year than the income then everything’s fine. In fact the main problem is that the whole existence relies on staying at the top. One of the best examples was Leeds Utds fall.

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