Anti-Vax film that has got Twitter talking. I found some of it credible, some of it ridiculous (and some of it really gross!). Am very interested to see what the vaccine scientists have to say about it.
Anyone else watched it? Any thoughts?
Musings on the byways of popular culture
by Gary 181 Comments
Anti-Vax film that has got Twitter talking. I found some of it credible, some of it ridiculous (and some of it really gross!). Am very interested to see what the vaccine scientists have to say about it.
Anyone else watched it? Any thoughts?
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Gary says
You can watch it via the above link or on YouTube.
The whole conspiracy theory bit, the “elite” trying to cull the population, doesn’t interest me. I strongly suspect it’s nonsense and can’t be arsed with it. The footage of people falling down (devoid of any real analysis) doesn’t either. But the reports of death statistics, especially infant mortalities, seem worth further investigation. And the ‘Alien’-like stringy bits that get pulled out of dead people is a bit scary.
I haven’t found much reaction to it from the expert/scientific community yet (it was only released yesterday). Just a couple of critical articles, both pretty vague:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2022/11/22/new-died-suddenly-film-pushes-unfounded-depopulation-claims-about-covid-19-vaccine
https://www.dailydot.com/debug/died-suddenly-documentary-twitter-debunk
bogl says
Seems to be often plain wrong.
Gary says
Yep, there are many shots of people falling down, with no investigation proffered, some of them already debunked (see second article above). But ignoring those and the conspiracy theory stuff, there are some claims that I want answers to, particularly those relating to blood clots and miscarriages/infant deaths.
retropath2 says
There is a lot of info/evidence about blood clots. Yes, there is an increased risk with the vaccine, but less than with the actual infection. (A bit like the measured increased risk of clots with the contraceptive pill, whereas the risk of clots with pregnancy is higher still.)
I dare say the miscarriage risk is on similar grounds and related.
Infant deaths? Que? As in vaccinated infants? If an infant is defined as under 1, that seems unlikely, as they are not given it.
fentonsteve says
You so-called (medically-qualified) ‘experts’ with your (scientifically-proven) ‘facts’ are all part of the global… {continues on page 94}
Gary says
I thank you Retro, for the first reasoned response to the op (as opposed to “I assume you agree with conspiracy theories and so I think you shouldn’t be posting the stuff that presumably supports this assumed opinion here”).
IIRC, you’re a doctor. Have you seen the film? I’d like to know if the ‘Alien’-like clots that the embalmers pull out are as rare a phenomena as the film’s “experts” claim or are they relatively normal?
As to infant deaths, I can’t access the film right now, but hope you won’t mind if I come back to you this afternoon with a specific question related to its claims? (One thing I do remember, without needing to find it in the film, is a health “expert” claiming the vaccine is causing babies to “have heart attacks in the womb”.)
retropath2 says
I probably won’t be watching the film, to be totally honest…. Alien like clots? Well, given blood will eventually clot internally after we die, the embalmers will need to pull out such debris, whilst draining the liquid “whey”, ahead of infusing with whatever they do. Foetal heart attacks? Who’s to say? Given we don’t currently find out or know the cause for a majority of miscarriages, it would seem highly likely, irrespective of either covid or vax, that many are due to coronary thrombosis, loosely aka clot. So, arguably, despite the torrid sensationalism of the reportage, if this goes to further expand the understanding of causes of miscarriage, so much the better. I will still bet the covid risk is bigger than the vax risk. File under happy accident, in the same way as long covid is helping expand the understanding of chronic fatigue syndrome.
murkey says
If we know some of the information in the film is untrue, there’s little reason to think the rest of it is. But always good to find answers where possible.
A bit like when Boris or Trump say something, there’s little reason to assume it is truthful, but it’s still worth finding out what the actual truth is.
Gary says
Exactly.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
We shouldn’t be giving guff like this one second of oxygen, not one effing second!
Two seconds research.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2022/11/22/new-died-suddenly-film-pushes-unfounded-depopulation-claims-about-covid-19-vaccine/
Jaygee says
Agree 100% with Lodey.
Besides which a lot oof the people who dropped dead in the film are obviously actors
Lodestone of Wrongness says
You quoted the Forbes article, Gary, so surely should have stopped there? Most of the people (all of them?) associated with the “documentary” are right-wing nutters conspiracy theory downright crazy and downright dangerous.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
I don’t have time for such nonsense, the bloody cat just bit my bloody foot and I jerked my new knee upwards and I swore and I swore some more and it’s agony and I demand my Mum. Where’s my Mum (being dead and all isn’t an excuse)?
Mike_H says
I’d go along with this (to a limited extent, obviously). Life’s too short to bog your brain down in such sideshows.
I really don’t care enough about this shit to bother my arse.
Next!
Gary says
With the potty-mouthed, feline induced effusion?
Gary says
Our posts crossed. Which ones are right wing nutters? If you know, I’d very much appreciate the names and links to evidence.
Ps. it hurts me to read of your distress. Your pain is my pain. (Not literally. Not figuratively even. But in some less tangible way.)
Vincent says
Exactly. These people are not measured and analytic in their thinking. They are hysterics who get their views from straight to DVD tough guy films. What’s worse, because of their bs, real conspiracy and egregiousness gets through. Maybe they are the ones being played to distract us from what’s going on? Or maybe that’s what they are pretending … And so it goes. Just say know.
Gary says
Vincent, if you know that some of the people in the film are bogus, unqualified to speak on the subject, right-wing nutters conspiracy theory downright crazy etc, could you name names and perhaps provide links for evidence? I’ve already looked up most of the doctors and health experts featured and they so far they seem genuine to me.
Vincent says
I wouldn’t trust something Stew Peters touched as far as i could throw it. Give these people your finger and they take your arm. I had 6 years seeing the early version of this when cranky Americans (some scientifically or medically trained) said HIV didn’t cause AIDS. it was generally to push religion, undermine belief in science, or punt patent medicine. Anti-vaxing seems very similar. But enjoy this if you do. I enjoy reading HP Lovecraft for paranoia as entertainment.
Gary says
Er… that’s exactly the same “vague” article I posted above. You could have saved yourself two seconds by just reading what I wrote properly! (Bet you regret that now! Just think of all the things you could have done instead!)
I knew I’d get this reaction, but (no offence intended) it doesn’t interest me. It’s easy to dismiss something out of hand without even watching it, simply because it clearly doesn’t conform to your point of view. (It doesn’t conform to mine either – I’ve had four jabs.) But that entirely misses the whole point of my concerns. I’m more interested in the bits of the film that do seem credible. I’m very, very interested in the scientific community’s response to the film, but as I said above, it’s too soon for that. So I thought I’d ask the Afterword in the meantime. Not for the general opinion on ‘No-Vax’ (I already know that).
If you haven’t watched the film, your opinions on it are of no interest to me (again, no offence intended).
Lodestone of Wrongness says
If I watched or read or listened to every such article all the way through before offering up my (generally worthless) opinion I’d be a very busy boy indeed .
That’s why we got the internet. So, instead of wading all the way through the film, I look for some informed comment because informed comment is all I’ve got. I’m not an expert in viral pandemics. The articles I’ve read so far suggest most strongly this is something that Jeremy Corbyn’s brother would give the thumbs up to i.e. complete bollocks.
And as for your “Yes, there’s some bad acting and questionable assertions and some downright lies in there but what if that section that says “There’s bits of alien in there!!” is true?
Us ordinary people with a modicum of intelligence but virtually no scientific knowledge have to rely on the fact that in general Modern Science gets it right most of the time. Most of the time, not all of the time. Of course buried deep in one of Trump’s speeches is the slightest sliver of truth but that doesn’t take away from the fact that he is a dangerous megalomaniac. Of course this film may (may, it appears highly unlikely) raise some legitimate concerns but if it stops one person doing the right thing re COVID jabs then giving it oxygen, even on an obscure corner of the internet like here, is just plain Wrong.
I’m off to kill a cat now.
Gary says
” if it stops one person doing the right thing re COVID jabs then giving it oxygen, even on an obscure corner of the internet like here, is just plain Wrong.”
Believe me, it is already discouraging and stopping people from doing what I too believe is the right thing. (In spades, judging by Twitter reaction alone.) That’s the very reason for my interest.
I doubt there’s many here can offer an informed opinion based on scientific knowledge any more than I can, but on personal experience maybe (re blood clots, for example, or perhaps previous online encounters with some of the people involved, or some of the deaths referred to).
Lodestone of Wrongness says
Let’s agree to disagree whilst I hose down the walls. Cat put up one hell of a fight
Gary says
Fair enough, but to be clear: all we’re disagreeing on is whether or not it’s worth examining some of the film’s claims, given that a lot of people are, without further examination, accepting them as facts.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
No. We are agreeing that watching the film in the first place was Wrong and that we are not going to waste our time investigating anything in there just because there might be a kernel of truth because that way lies madness and mayhem and Jeremy Corbyn’s brother and none of us want that, do we?
Gary says
You’re quite Right! If you think that watching the film was in any way “Wrong” we definitely have to agree to disagree on that. In much the same way I disagree with people who think reading the Daily Mail is wrong. (For free, that is. I would never pay to read it.)
Bingo Little says
Unfortunately, you’re treading a very well worn path here, and one on which reason holds only limited sway.
“I don’t trust the MSM, I get my information from elsewhere”.
“Look at this video about 9/11/vaccines/birds. I’m not saying it’s true, but I do find it interesting”.
“The worm people have infiltrated the government and are secretly puppeteering the country from their underground moonbases”.
I would suggest stepping away from this particular rabbit hole/YouTube/Twitter/the internet for a little while. And I mean that with much love.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
Bingo has said it much better than what I done (apart from the “much love” bit. Yuk!)
Gary says
You and Bingo choose to ignore the film and that’s fine. If it’s not something that interests you, fair enough. I have no problem with that whatsoever. But then why comment? The film interests me because a lot of people are taking it at face value, which disturbs me. I shouldn’t be required to justify my interests, much less be told they are wrong and I should step away from them.
deramdaze says
The worm people have definitely infiltrated the body of Jack Grealish.
Gary says
Again, as stated above, I’m very interested in the response to some of the film’s more seemingly credible claims. I’m very, very interested in the scientific community’s response to those claims, which I await with anticipation. I’m not in the slightest bit interested in the views of those who prefer to dismiss its claims without knowing what they are (again, no offence intended, just stating my personal interest). Why would I step away from something that interests me? (Frankly, associating me with your three comments in quotes I just find bizarre.)
Lodestone of Wrongness says
This has to stop soon or everyone will get bored of our squabbling but….
I haven’t ignored the film. I watched for a few minutes, smelled the fetid air and went exploring to see if my initial impressions of it being conspiracy bonkers was correct. Agreed, there’s not a lot out there but right now the Forbes article and a couple of others seem to confirm my suspicions. Just like I don’t need to read a duff book all the way through to confirm it’s duffness (and in the duff might be a few passages worthy of Austen or King) I don’t need to watch Died Suddenly in its entirety to know it’s a complete load of old bollox. Complete.
And by the way both the links you quote in the OT are anything but “vague”. Unless vague is shorthand for “This movie is full of mendacious shit”
Gary says
The first bit is all about the conspiracy theory stuff, all about the “elite” wanting to cull the population. As mentioned above, that interests me not one jot. Ridiculous nonsense. It’s the later medical stuff that does. Especially the claims (made by embalmers, doctors and scientists) about blood clots and miscarriages/infant mortality.
In this case, “vague” could certainly be shorthand for “This movie is mendacious shit”. I want far more specific analysis. As said, I await the scientific community’s response with great anticipation.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
Me and my knee are bowing out. Nothing it seems is going to change your stance of “the film-makers lie all the way through the first half but, who knows, maybe the second-half gives us Truth”
Off to buy a kitten
Gary says
Ok. Tbh, I don’t really understand why you commented in the first place. And if you think my “stance” is “maybe the second-half gives us Truth” you clearly haven’t understood (or perhaps haven’t read) what I’ve written. I don’t have a “stance”. I have questions.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
Blimey! I commented cos you posted. It’s how this place works. Maybe stance was the wrong word. Maybe my shorthand Truth was wrong too.You think there are serious questions to be answered as a result of this film. I don’t.
I don’t think we have much more to discuss here but if we do shall we do it by DM instead of boring everyone to death?
Gary says
I’ve never been that bothered about boring people to death. Why start now?
I posted asking if anyone had seen the film and what were their thoughts. You hadn’t seen it but felt compelled to comment anyway. Fair enough, but I’m still not sure why.
You don’t think there are serious questions to be asked. Again, fair enough. I do.
I rarely speak much about my personal life here, I’m a little reluctant to do so, but to give two very specific questions:
1. Someone I care about is pregnant and unsure whether to continue with Covid jabs. The “experts” in the film give her the impression that she definitely shouldn’t. Not having seen the film’s claims, do you think I should dismiss her qualms out of hand? Tell her that she shouldn’t even have watched the film? Would you say that if it were someone you cared about? I respect her concern and want very specific answers.
2. I personally have suffered in the past from blood clots in my leg. My father died of a heart attack induced, I believe, by a similar problem. Will the vaccine risk worsening this problem? The film indicates it is possible (with very yucky filmed evidence and “experts” saying they’ve never seen the phenomena before the vaccine was introduced). Should I dismiss it as tosh on your word, or take it for granted that the film’s “experts” are right? Or should I look further for answers?
These are two very specific questions related to my life. Of much wider concern is the number of people on Twitter talking about not taking any more vaccines.
I repeat (God bless my patience!) I await the scientific community’s response to the film’s claims with much anticipation and in the meantime wondered what those among the Afterword community who have seen the film think of them.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
I have “seen” the film, as explained previously, enough of which sent me to the internet where as well as the articles you quote other sources commented about lies, conspiracy theories etc.
I totally understand your friends concerns re pregnancy. I’m no expert but, honestly, there seems to be enough properly researched information out there saying risks are minimal compared to catching COVID.
And to repeat, I commented on your post because from what I and others I respect can tell it’s a big pile of mendacious poo authored by frankly loony loons who have no right whatsoever to scare the bejeesus out of your friend (and you ).
I’ve found this chap a very good guide these past few years: hope he can give some reassurance to you both
https://thelogicofscience.com/2022/01/19/debunking-30-bad-arguments-about-covid-vaccines/
Gary says
Now that’s far, far more what I was looking for than any other comment so far! Thank you! Skimming through (am not at home right now), it doesn’t address some of the specific issues raised in the film, but that is exactly the sort of article I am hoping will come out in response to the film.
Moose the Mooche says
So. What about those moon landings, eh?
mikethep says
They turned up in the first two minutes, along with Twin Towers, Ruby killing Oswald and Jeffrey Epstein. Presumably the line is, here are all the ridiculous conspiracy theories that nobody believes in, you can disregard those, but what we have to say will amaze you.
hubert rawlinson says
I have a Facebook friend who posts all this stuff, as if it’s all scientific proof. I think he’s to far invested in this type of stuff that he’ll just keep posting them.
I’ve still not had a reply to my last question about one of his posts.
Gary says
If you search the film’s title on Twitter you’ll find an enormous number of people like him. I know a few personally too.
hubert rawlinson says
Here’s his latest link
There are two groups of people on the planet. Group A who have worked out how the system really works and who try to inform their friends, family and work colleagues what’s really going on and then there is Group B… who are oblivious – and who use the term ‘conspiracy theorists’ to describe Group A… and to avoid having to come out of their ignorance.
Gary says
He doesn’t mention Group C, who are sceptical but willing to discuss.
hubert rawlinson says
I’m afraid he doesn’t believe in a group C, you are either A or B it’s a binary thing. Discussion is out.
hubert rawlinson says
And yet more.
Moose the Mooche says
Very disturbed to see a depiction of a round Earth at the bottom there. Another Kool-Aid drinker, despite protesting too much.
hubert rawlinson says
Ah but if you heat a ‘choccy teapot’ it eventually goes flat proving his ‘point.’
Diddley Farquar says
Have we started the best 2002 album voting already? I am confuse.
Moose the Mooche says
Pitchfork’s list right there.
Diddley Farquar says
The TMFTL meme makes most things a little bit better.
Gary says
If you mean the best album of 2022 poll, the winner of that is looking very likely to be a 95-year-old Cuban woman with her first album! What are the odds?*
*15-1 for a £10 stake.
grac says
“The Stew Peters Network would not be possible without the loyal and endearing support of all our sponsors. There is something for EVERYONE!”
Always read the small print. Apparently he’s an ex bounty hunter turned radio host. Or in other words a grifter. My tolerance for shite like this is VERY low so I’ll stop now before I offend anyone.
Moose the Mooche says
Well you can’t argue with those scientific credentials.
hubert rawlinson says
All I can say is those brain supplements he peddles don’t seem to work.
Vulpes Vulpes says
Christ allmighty, I’ve indicated elsewhere how I feel about Twatter, and here’s a perfect example of why it’s a numpty shitstorm looking for morons, and ought to be avoided (or filtered to within a nanometre of its miserable life) by anyone sensible.
Diddley Farquar says
Thank God we have this haven of sanity where we can come and avoid such tosh. Er… Personally I contact trained medical staff when I have concerns about vaccines rather than search on Twitter and share posts with addled fans of 70s rock to get to the truth. I suppose such medical staff are not to be trusted as they will no doubt deceive and lie. What to do?
Moose the Mooche says
Yebbut what if trained medical professionals don’t confirm your world-view? It’s a dilemma!
Gary says
If anyone can supply info on the “trained medical experts” who participated in the film being wrong or unqualified to comment (rather than just “they don’t confirm my world-view”) I’d be interested.
Gary says
As stated in the OP, I would be interested to hear from anyone who’s actually watched the film as to what they think of its medical claims, particularly with regard to blood clots and miscarriages/infant deaths (ignoring, as said, the conspiracy theory stuff and the footage of people falling down). If you haven’t seen it yet or refuse to do so, please feel free to comment nonetheless, but do so on the understanding that I couldn’t be less interested in your comments.
dai says
Seems like a pretty good example of the real dangers of social media. “Trending on Twitter” often means misinformation spreading quickly due to people not setting their filters right or something and believing everything they read/see that fits into their warped world view
(No I haven’t watched it, but all vaccines have side effects, some much worse than others)
hubert rawlinson says
For some reason the film isn’t showing now, I looked up the two ‘award winning’ film makers I can’t see any reference on IMDB to any awards they have won, not even cycling proficiency. One has been a magician for ten years not that there’s anything wrong with that as Orson Welles did magic too and also filmed F for Fake.
Gary says
I did same. Describing the filmmakers as “award winning” seems totally bogus.
Ironically, there are a few seemingly respectable people in the film who say “all we want is an open discussion, nothing more”. This thread is a good example of why that’s not going to happen.
Rob C says
The film appears to be a rather vile and cynical enterprise for nothing but financial gain and I shall not be watching it, but, there is a lot more to the picture than we are led to believe. I’m not on twitter, but can access it. Have a look at Dr Aseem Malhotra also Dr Tess Lawrie on there. These are not bogus doctors, far from it, as are the largely msm banned Dr Robert Malone and Dr Peter McCullough. There are many others trying to highlight serious concerns. Be diligent and discerning and ignore the crowds of hysterics on either side. It is worth some cool headed open minded research. This may help your and your loved ones in regard to what you decide either way and come to some form of balanced conclusion.
Gary says
Thanks Rob, I’ll certainly check them out. I don’t see the film as an attempt at financial gain (it’s free to view), and I definitely get the impression that most of the participants are, however wrong or misguided they might be, speaking in good faith.
A quick look at Dr Aseem Malhotra, I see that he’s one of the doctors quoted in the film (regarding the death of a 13-year-old boy after receiving the Pfizer jab).
hubert rawlinson says
The film may be free to view but the links below certainly show an ability to shill, ok you don’t have to buy but …
Gary says
True, but then Rumble strikes me as a very dodgy site altogether. I’d never come across it before, but my initial impression is that it seems like tin-foil paradise.
mutikonka says
What Retropath said – yes there is good evidence of blood clotting risk with some vaccines (AZ). It’s a well documented rare risk, much less than the risk of clotting with the virus. The side effects mentioned in programmes like this are real but blown out of all proportion to the actual numbers. See what they are doing for myocarditis. A very small risk but if you listen to Dr Aseem Malhotra he portrays it as an epidemic. I’m a pharmacologist and used to work in a NHS hospital medical information dept many years ago. There was often a Malhotra type of doctor who played the contrarian – as per Wakefield and MMR vaccine. There was another guy who was always banging on about statins being toxic, until they went off patent and are cheap as chips now, so they’ve moved on to the next evil Big Pharma product. So to answer your question – is there anything in it? Yes, but only a tiny fraction of what they make it out to be. All medicines come with a risk, it’s a case of balancing those with the benefits. What we’re now learning about the long term destructive effects of the virus on the circulation, brain, lungs etc is way more worrying than rare vaccine side effects.
Gary says
Thanks mutikonka, exactly the sort of reply I was asking for.
Gary says
Just as a follow up to your kind and helpful reply, @mutikonka, a specialist friend in UK sent me this article regarding the relationship between blood clots and vaccine, in particular Astra-Zeneca (I’ve had Pfizer x4). As someone quite concerned about the possibility of blood clots, I found it extremely interesting. As you rightly say, “a well documented rare risk” (albeit one seemingly still being investigated) but one that I knew nothing about until now.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9055170/
Gary says
Soz, should have mentioned @retropath2 too, also thanks for your kind and informative reply. (And the above article might interest you).
Vulpes Vulpes says
Black Friday special! Fake Moon Landing Rocks for only $99 each! Dried grass leaves from The Grassy Knoll in a presentation resin pack! Unpublished 10×8 photos of Bigfoot enjoying a Coke! Shreds of lizard skin discarded by members of the British Royal Family in a neat hand-made wooden casket! Quick before they are all gone!
Gary says
I see the BBC has just in the last hour come out with an interesting article about the film that addresses the blood clots (yay!) and the miscarriages (double yay!). I should have known the BBC wouldn’t let me down even if The Afterword did:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-63719246
Diddley Farquar says
All this goes to show is that you shouldn’t have wasted your time on this garbage, which most of us well informed people could tell is bogus from the get go. Then you wouldn’t have needed to clutter up this forum with unwanted trolling instead of your usually impeccable content. Didn’t need the BBC to figure it out.
Gary says
Informed opinion? From people who refused to watch the film I was asking about? “Unwanted trolling”? I retract my insult, though you deserve it.
Diddley Farquar says
Nothing personal about you in my reply was there? Just attacking the kind of thing that was posted that is foul and shouldn’t have been put here and is trolling on the part of the film makers. It was all a waste of time as the BBC report demonstrates and as most of us already knew.
Gary says
I understood “clutter up the forum with unwanted trolling” to be a reference to my many comments on something I found interesting. If that wasn’t the case, I apologise.
Diddley Farquar says
Yes I should have made it clearer that by trolling I meant the posted link.
Gary says
Then, my sincerest apologies.
Diddley Farquar says
No worries.
Jeff says
@gary please don’t do this again.
Whatever your reasons for posting this thread, I implore you to ask the Mods to remove it.
Gary says
Don’t worry, I won’t.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
I did delete a reply to you which said ask the Mods to remove it. It’s honestly not a personal attack , Gary – you amuse and delight me on an almost daily basis.
If , knowing we have a coterie on here with medical experience, you had posted ” ATM – been reading there’s some questions over COVID and blood clots and people falling over:
anybody know good places for me to find out a bit more?” the replies you would have got would have been far more sympathetic.
And FFS, don’t flounce!
Gary says
If , knowing we have a coterie on here with medical experience, you had posted ” ATM – been reading there’s some questions over COVID and blood clots and people falling over:
anybody know good places for me to find out a bit more?”
In my mind, that’s EXACTLY what I was asking. Repeatedly. I still don’t see how it could have been interpreted otherwise.
Me (paraphrased): Has anyone seen this film? Any thoughts? Ignore the conspiracy nonsense and footage of people falling over, I’m interested in the medical bits and looking for disproof of their validity while I wait for the expert responses to it.
The Afterword (paraphrased): Tin hats, moon landings, conspiracy guff, trolling, right-wing nutters, wouldn’t watch it, you shouldn’t, don’t want it posted here.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
No, you didn’t. You said “I’ve just watched a film that any sane person knows is full of shit but I’m worried some of it might be true.”
Most people didn’t get past “I watched a shit film”
Gary says
No, I didn’t. At no point whatsoever did I say or even suggest I was worried any of it might be true. The nearest I came to doing so (which was after you’d already commented several times) was to mention my own personal worries in relation to it. But I had previously stated, very clearly, that the fact that many people were believing what the film said without question was what disturbed me.
Throughout all discussion my emphasis has been on wanting specific answers to specific questions (‘What are those weird blood clots?’ and ‘Can the vaccine cause miscarriages?’) and I explained why. The BBC article quite rightly addresses both questions because, I think, anyone who’s watched the film would want an intelligent response to do so. Of course anyone who hasn’t watched the film wouldn’t, which is why I wasn’t interested in those responses.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
Last time I joke on here (he lied). Twas meant in good spirit. I apologise.
Gary says
No worries. I didn’t realise you were joking. (As is so often the case.)
MC Escher says
Gary’s free to post on whatever he wants without you policing it, isn’t he?
Jeff says
I’m not policing anybody.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
Of course he is! That’s why because I count Gary a “friend” I thought better of asking him to delete his thread to avoid people piling in. He’s big enough (just ask Enrico) and old enough to do what he bloody well likes.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
I for one can’t wait for Gary’s Album of the Year thread.
Gary says
Thanks, MC. I would have hoped so too. According to the BBC article (which, as stated, was very much what I was hoping for – a proper debunk rather than sneering and boasting of moral superiority through refusal to watch) over 5-and-a-half million people have watched the film already. Many, as I’ve repeatedly said, have disturbed me by allowing it to convince them against getting vaccinated (and, having watched the film, I can understand why, as can the BBC journalist). I therefore thought, and still think, it’s something worth discussing. More so than the latest Wordle. (Though I wouldn’t be so rude as to object to that.)
Lodestone of Wrongness says
A low blow. Wordle is played by 6 senile old men in the back snug where they disturb no-one but themselves
mikethep says
How dare you call me a senile old man in the back snug? I might be a bit snug in the front though…
Gary says
Eeew!
Moose the Mooche says
What’s with the formula one impersonation?
Bloody Italian futurists…
Gary says
Wasn’t supposed to be Formula 1. Was supposed to be a macaw expressing delight without distracting its insect prey.
Moose the Mooche says
Hen or cock?
Gary says
I can do both, depending on how much I’ve drunk.
Moose the Mooche says
Recreational fluidity.
Very
2023.
hubert rawlinson says
Point of order macaws do not eat insects.
Gary says
Who said anything about eating?
hubert rawlinson says
Then what do they do with ’em, keep them as pets?
Gary says
That’s a good question. I’m going to ask them.
hubert rawlinson says
@Gary The Macaw Whisperer.
Gary says
Gannets too.
hubert rawlinson says
Gannets not to be found in Olsen’s Standard book of British Birds the expurgated version. Nasty beaks
Bingo Little says
The video in the OP is transparently a load of old cobblers, designed to reel in the credulous. It is quite clearly not credible.
With thanks to an invaluable (not to mention timely) intervention from the BBC, we all appear to have arrived on that same page. How we got there, and with quite how much kicking and screaming, is a deeply secondary matter.
What is there left to argue about? I’d be grateful to know, because we’re in grave danger here of consensus, and that will never do.
Well played everyone/peace and harmony through all the world, etc. Here’s the new The National, it’s fairly nice (or is it).
Gary says
I honestly don’t want to prolong the discussion, but that’s never going to be my mentality: I wouldn’t proclaim a documentary is a load of old cobblers until I’ve seen it any more than I would proclaim an album is not worth listening to without listening to it. Unless it’s by The National feat. Bon Iver.
Bingo Little says
I’m afraid not all of us are so intellectually rigorous. In many ways, that’s the lesson of this thread.
Gary says
That’s actually very a nice track. First time I’ve knowingly heard either of the artists.
Bingo Little says
If you enjoyed it, I would go listen to most of The National’s other stuff, because it all sounds quite a lot like that.
On the Bon Iver front, worth checking out his immortal collaboration with Jedward.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
Ah, such a song! I can even forgive Bon Iver and his stupid kerchief mask
Baron Harkonnen says
I read the Shyte on that site, well some of it. I’ve better things to do than read/watch crap such as this.
Gary says
How fascinating.
Moose the Mooche says
What is Shyte? Is it an attempt to be fhakefpearean?
fentonsteve says
Very nearly a hamper (full of vaccinations) for Gary.
Gary says
I’ll donate it to the orphans of the slain.
Moose the Mooche says
Well, now I have questions.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/23/uk-experts-helped-shut-covid-lab-leak-theory-weeks-told-might/
Gary says
Censors! Where are you now you’re needed, ffs? (Loafing slovenly, that’s where.)
Moose the Mooche says
Vallance lied. People died. Children cried. Puppies sighed. I like Ride.
fitterstoke says
Moose…untied!
Moose the Mooche says
Life stinks… I like the Kinks
hubert rawlinson says
Roger the Dodger ♥ Minnie the Minx
Gary says
Woe betide
that one should abide
by unreserved and unqualified
faith in only one side.
fitterstoke says
…Gary replied…
Jaygee says
That’s the problem with opening this particular Pandora’s box…
Moose the Mooche says
That’s what Adrian Mole said etc
Vulpes Vulpes says
A dummy’s guide to starting a new conspiracy theory:
Read one of those leaflets they put inside every box of pills you get from the quack. Yes, the leaflets that you always bin as soon as you open a pack – they are always at the other end, whichever end you open first, folded around the little blister sheets of pills so that you are obliged to open the other bloody end as well to get at them so that you can chuck them in the bin.
Next time, read one of them. They will list counless horrific potential side-effects of taking the little pills you’ve been prescibed. The probability of suffering from any of the ghastly contra-indications is likely to be vanishingly low in most cases, but you won’t see the percentage estimate, you’ll just read the disturbing results and assume that this is what will happen to you when you pop the blister pack and swallow a couple with your dinner. My goodness, wouldn’t your risk avoidance strategy be better if you just accepted your medical condition and took the consequences, whatever they might be?
You can then go on to Twatter and write an account of how you know for certain, because ‘expert scientists’ have discovered through their research that these are the consequences of taking this medication, but you never hear about it in the ‘main stream media’ because it has all been hushed up for some reason. Obviously.
Out there in Twatterland there will be enormous numbers of people who have also been prescribed these pills and have also always binned the little leaflets unread. Once they’ve read your Twat, had their eyes opened to this conspiratorial denial of the truth, and forwarded it to Jase from Accounts and all their other mates, with any luck it’ll go viral across the numptysphere and you can bask in the glory of having reduced the sum of all recorded human knowledge by an infinitesimal amount.
fitterstoke says
I know that it’s slightly against the spirit of your post, Foxy – but how can these side effects be both “hushed up” and simultaneously available to scare the public, by being printed on the leaflet in every single pack? Or is this why you called it the numptysphere?
fentonsteve says
“hushed up” = printed in balck and white, but in the small print at the bottom on the back side of the page. Whereas it should say:
TAKE THIS AND YOU MIGHT* DIE
(*) there’s a 1 in 10 billion chance of it, but our lawyers insist we tell you all the same
fitterstoke says
#AskYourPharmacist
fentonsteve says
I read the leaflet in my Immunosuppressants just the once then, several months later, got sunburn blisters on one arm after driving from the airport to the villa in Galicia (it was 42C in the shade, we’d gone there for Mrs F’s cousin’s wedding).
Somewhere in the back of my mind I’d read about UV hypersensitivity in the small print, and borrowed Mrs F’s cousin’s laptop to download the info sheet.
What joy to discover I was the 1 in 10,000. As if being a Gin-ger in Spain wasn’t bad enough…
Gary says
My illness (NF2) makes me 1 in 40,000. I laugh at your pathetic 1 in 10,000 with haughty superiority.
fitterstoke says
As a “Gin-ger in Spain”, and at 42C in the shade – I wonder what the odds were regarding the sunburn blistering, even if you HADN’T taken the drugs…
fentonsteve says
…driving in an airconditioned car for an hour, only my left arm blistered.
I borrowed a long sleeve shirt from Mrs F’s cousin and drove to the Farmacia. “Donde es el antihistominicos, por favor?”
Freddy Steady says
Oi, Mr Pharmacist?
fitterstoke says
Can I help you out today (in my usual lovely way)?
Gary says
Ironically, pontificating about other people’s stupidity seems to me the most common reason people use Twitter.
Gatz says
Some people aren’t happy on Twitter unless their propping up their fragile ego and making themselves feel superior by actively seeking out people who they can look down on. That’s why I use it anyway.
Mike_H says
Having read a little more about this, it’s obvious Anti-Vax polemic/propaganda dressed-up as a film drama in a deliberate attempt to dis-/mis- inform. The intention being to evade any accusations of falsification.
Idiot trolls who cannot/will not distinguish a movie drama from reality are already hassling the greiving relatives of people who have “Died Suddenly”, even ones who died before Covid and it’s vaccines existed.
Any movie house that screens it should burn.
Gary says
Dressed up as a documentary more than a film drama. There’s zero chance of it being shown in “movie houses”. (Though having today seen the clip of the Colorado killer’s dad that’s doing the rounds, nothing would surprise me!).
There are two very distinct elements to it. The ridiculous ‘conspiracy guff’ (about how Bill Gates and “the elite” want to cull the population -plus lots of footage of people twirling round then falling over) and the seemingly more serious ‘medical stuff’ (which, strangely, the BBC debunk article falsely reports as based on the word of just one embalmer). I’ve seen a few people on Twitter who support its medical claims but are embarrassed by its conspiracy nonsense. But the vast majority of Tweets I’ve seen support both elements. Most of them from Americans, funnily enough. I’m surprised there hasn’t been more analysis/rebuttal of the medical side in the press yet.
Moose the Mooche says
Is it their job to rebut this? Have they not got enough to do, er saving lives and other such pointless shit?
As for grieving relatives, fuck them, this is Infowars pal…
Gary says
I would have thought they’d want to. There have been a few discussions of it on Italian media, but nothing providing serious expert analysis.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
Well, hi again There has been little scientific rebuttal because fanning even the smallest breath of oxygen towards nonsense like this is bad. The only, only, way for us non- experts to try and understand complicated matters like these is not through fucking Twitter Storms. Peer Reviewed Science. Peer Reviewed Science. Sure, scientists will sometimes make collective mistakes but in almost every instance these are genuine mistakes. Not fucking nutters spouting dangerous bollocks and then tagging on some “facts” that may just have a kernel of truth buried in there.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
I’m seriously thinking of dragging my Wounded Knee to Italy and snacking you round the head with an enormous fish
Gary says
Tried reading this but kept getting too bored.
Gary says
Mmmm… fish. Sea bass is my favourite. I think it’s actually my favourite meal out of anything ever. If I were to be executed, say, and offered a final meal, I honestly think I’d choose sea bass.
hubert rawlinson says
Why eat when you can play the double bass?
Gary says
I have so many questions. First and foremost: the ornate architectural thingy in the top left hand corner, does it serve a purpose or is it purely decorative? And does it feature throughout the house or is that the only example? Is it made of wood or plaster? And do you happen to know what the proper terminology for it is?
hubert rawlinson says
I’m so glad you asked
There are just the two plaster corbels in the hall, but there is much plastering decoration throughout the house.
Should you wish to view more please enquire.
Gary says
Thank you. I have no further questions right now, but if any should come to mind I’ll get back to you.
Mike_H says
It’s claimed by the makers to be a drama in documentary style, which I suppose is their get-out when it’s obvious falsifications and two-and-two-make-any-number-we-choose-them-to analogies are flagged as misleading.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
Nice to meet you after all this time
Diddley Farquar says
Despite being slapped with a fish, Cleese has ended up boring us by going on about how he’s sufferred unfair treatment by the BBC having become prone to the ageing star syndrome of turning into a bit of a twat, usually of a right wing persuasion. So I don’t think hitting Gary with a big fish will help the situation as this example proves beyond reasonable doubt. It is real isn’t it?
Gary says
But don’t rule out the possibility that I might enjoy it.
Hamlet says
The chasm between peer-reviewed evidence/clinical trials/metadata and a buffoon who insists, “I’ve done my research, mate!” is depressing.
An old family friend of mine has gone into full-on dribbling mode, insisting that Covid doesn’t even exist – his ‘research’ is watching conspiracy theory videos on YouTube. The last time we met, he accused me of being narrow minded…because I thought the earth was definitely round. I reminded him that even the Ancient Greeks knew the earth was round, due to the way shadows were cast at certain times of day.
This guy has alienated 90% of his friends and family. Conspiracy theories are seductive, but they appeal to the disenfranchised and are an attempt to impose meaning on a random, if cruel, series of events.
Diddley Farquar says
There seems to be more of this kind of thing happening these days. There’s this documentary Ancient Apocalypse on Netflix:
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/nov/23/ancient-apocalypse-is-the-most-dangerous-show-on-netflix
Should scientists go around debunking all these things in an endless game of whack-a-mole? Of course not but it’s troubling. And then there’s The Crown. But that’s a drama. People get cross about it because it takes liberties. Unfortunately not everyone is so discerning and either complains it’s not realistic or believes it’s all true.
Moose the Mooche says
But it is all true. It’s the royal family who are fictional.
Diddley Farquar says
Well the tv series flatters them, making them seem interesting with their dazzling conversation and charisma.
Gary says
I think scientists should indeed be making a clear rebuttal of the medical claims made in a documentary stylee, if they’re convincing millions not to get vaxed (which they are) and thus making the world less safe.
Whereas if people want to believe that “an advanced ice-age civilisation – responsible for teaching humanity concepts such as maths, architecture and agriculture – was wiped out in a giant flood brought about by multiple comet strikes about 12,000 years ago”, or that the royal family and ‘global elite’ are really lizards, or that just over 2,000 years ago the son of the earth’s creator came back from the dead, surely that’s up to them?
Diddley Farquar says
Makes me think of Erik Von Daniken’s Chariots Of The Gods books from long ago, that aliens made the pyramids. Not a new phenomenon.
Gary says
I personally know a lot of people -normal, seemingly smart people- who seriously believe (or claim to believe) that every Sunday they eat the body and drink the blood of Christ.
hubert rawlinson says
It appears he’s still publishing books.
Moose the Mooche says
Interesting that you don’t say “his books are still being published”… 😉
Jaygee says
Might not this strange publishing dichotomy be the work of sentient alien beings from a far-off galaxy?
Moose the Mooche says
Yeah, probably. Let’s blame the aliens for that an’ all. Scaly bastuds….
hubert rawlinson says
He’s still writing them too.
hubert rawlinson says
As the ‘Facebook friend’ I mention above sees science as fantasy then I think trying to change their minds could be a tad difficult.
Minerva and moloch is his latest, with ‘proof’ everywhere.
Moose the Mooche says
My brother in law, very intelligent man, emerged from his latest YouTube rabbit hole a few weeks back to announce, gleefully, that Russia Has Won The War. “That’s it! They’ve done it!” he said, as if he’s just watched Luke Skyywalker blowing up the Death Star.
Always ask yourself: does this person want this to be true? BiL hates America/NATO etc and despite the fact that he would be the first person to accidentally-fall-out-of-a-window in any country where Putin/FSB had any power, has gone out and found the material online where there’s a narrative that gives him the outcome he wants. That’s what “doing your research” means.
Gary says
I see that mentality a lot here. The Left in Italy are generally way more vocal in their opposition to America/NATO than they are in their opposition to Putin. I had a bit of a to-do with a friend who constantly posts anti-West memes. When I asked him why he chooses to live in the West he got narky.
(Though I must say, I find “I refuse to watch/read something that contradicts my beliefs” not much different to “I’m only looking for something that supports my beliefs”.)
Hamlet says
Spot on, Moose.
Jaygee says
@hubert-rawlinson
The Minerva and Moloch Sounds like the name of a Wetherspoons pub
Gary says
Minerva and Moloch sounds like a detective programme.
Mike_H says
Which is the one with the Troubled Past?
Moose the Mooche says
Moloch. Furious ex wife and lives on takeaways in his flat (because men can’t cook, can they?) Minerva is into crosswords or Wordle or some other boring shit.
Gary says
Just in case anyone is interested (as if!), the first proper, very specific rebuttal of exactly the kind I was waiting for was published today:
“Clots can easily form after death, as the liquid and solid parts of blood separate and as formaldehyde and calcium-containing water used in the embalming process catalyze clotting. Refrigeration can also be to blame, especially when a rapid influx of bodies due to COVID necessitates longer stays in the cooler as embalmers make their way through their backlog.”
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking/anti-vaccine-documentary-died-suddenly-wants-you-feel-not-think
Together with a final message that could be addressed to some of this thread’s contributors:
I have already read superficial denunciations of the movie by media outlets that do not address the core claims the movie makes. I get it. The escalation of the anti-vaccine rhetoric into a mad fever pitch is so pronounced, it can leave us speechless. We resort to dismissal, anger, and accusations of widespread idiocy.
I worry that this sort of drive-by skepticism—quick, often smug—, excusable though it may be, plays right into the hand of a movie like Died Suddenly. Its brave “truthtellers” are shown as people who care. They want to prevent deaths. They are tearing through the wall of passivity and the thicket of wickedness they see in order to save human lives. Propped up by the shallow depth of field of the camera, the professional lighting, the unnerving music, and the storytelling power of a good edit, it makes for convincing fodder.
Our casual dismissal of these propaganda pieces doesn’t help, in my opinion. If we want to persuade the people caught in their wake—not the die-hard believers, who can hardly be swayed, but those who are scared yet still willing to listen to reason—we must fact-check with empathy. We must show how easy it is to topple the scarecrows of anti-vaccine propaganda.
Diddley Farquar says
This just appeared on my Twitter feed.
Gary says
Thanks Dids. As hoped, the experts are getting their act together. Now I need some Italian ones to do same.