U2 are about to release ‘songs of surrender’ a 40(!) track reimagining of classic U2 tracks. I.e. an acoustic best of. The first single turns a protest anthem into a Coldplay b-side. Bono and co have seemed rather lost in the 21st century. No longer the biggest band in the world, creatively unsure what to do. Trying to avoid being an heritage act but not making anything interesting enough to not be an heritage band.
So why do bands plod on and not do the dignified thing and call it a day when the creativity runs dry?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I suspect that for their managers and the promoters that’s certainly true.
For the bands themselves it’s usually a case of “What else are we gonna do with ourselves?”
If you’ve spent the last 40 years travelling around and playing music in front of audiences, successfully, it’s not going to be easy to just knock it on the head and do something else or do nothing.
Well yes, except didn’t REM do just that?
Being massively rich does help. Stipe and (or course) Berry rarely play live, but Buck and Mills do. Not as REM, but I saw them both accompanying (former live REM member) Scott McCaughey playing as The Minus 5 at Solid Sound Festival in 2019. I believe Berry has also joined them once or twice when they are playing near his farm.
Peter Buck and Bill Berry have recently collaborated with Kevn Kinney on the latter’s first album for a decade, entitled “Think About It”:
https://tinnitist.com/2022/12/09/albums-of-the-week-kevn-kinney-think-about-it/
Buck has recorded an album and is touring with Luke Haines
I remember Francis Rossi being asked this and he said that performing on stage and having several thousand people shout “we like you” is a very, very hard thing to give up.
I do wonder if some bands should just tour as and when they feel like it. And release new songs whenever they want to – doesn’t have to be an album.
Depeche Mode always have a new album to promote when they tour. I could see the sense in that when people bought records and CDs but nowadays, I’m not so sure.
Isn’t that where the money is? Especially for acts like DM who play stadiums? Even at the 200 standing, £20 a ticket end of things, it seems to be possible to make a living although I suspect that without t shirt sales, it would be less so.
I was talking about the need to always have an album to promote. Touring is a given because that really is the only way to make money.
“Depeche Mode always have a new album to promote when they tour. ”
….and then they only play a few songs from it, and the tour quickly becomes a greatest hits show (* complete with gurning and the cold blooded murder of many said hits).
When the new material is mostly bland dross, though, I suppose I can sympathise with the problem. 😉
Hey, the new album can’t be far away now. I hope I am surprised! (I really do hope I am).
Of course the problem with slowed down acoustic versions is they draw attention to your lyrics in a way that shouting over loud multilayered guitars does not ..
With U2 as much as I am not keen on their music they stayed together and not sure heritage applies to them in the same way as say 10cc or any number of classic bands from the 60’s who tour with maybe one or possibly two of their original members. Personally I think both McCartney and Rod Stewart are well past their sell by date and Elton John too.
Other bands that still perform well live are not ie Simple Minds or James
I think this is something Bruce Springsteen has to a tee. Releases the odd album here and there which are a bit of a mix (old tracks album, acoustic album, covers album, new songs album). All are half decent without really capturing past glories. On the touring front, regardless of if there is a ‘new’ album out, you have got more or less the same E Street band show for the last 20 years or so. No fancy themed stage set up, most of the classics, some unexpected deep cuts, one or two off the ‘latest’ album, and that’s your lot. Also, on occasions plays the whole of one of his three classic albums in the middle of a set. This is the sort of thing U2 should maybe consider. In recent times they appear to have tried to have bigger and better stage shows, outdoing the last tour, but everything is so stage managed and hyped to the exact second, with the exact same set every night while also plugging strongly the latest album. Would be great if they just got up on a ‘normal’ stage set up, and one night played, say the whole of the Joshua Tree, then at another show the unforgettable fire, then a week later Achtung Baby, interspersed with a handful of songs from across their career. Would be so much easier, looser and fun, without having to roar up the big tour machine they have to do. Billy Joel is another who seems to have settled into a great routine. Anyway just a thought.
Good call. I’d go and see Unforgettable Fire or Joshua Tree. Maybe even Achtung Baby. They lost me after Zooropa.
Does anybody happen to know offhand if they’ve done any really good songs since Zooropa? I just checked their discography and I haven’t heard any album tracks or singles from this century apart from Vertigo in 2004.
The Miracle Of Joey Ramone … worth a listen
All That You Can’t Leave Behind is an all-round decent ‘old-skool’ U2 album.
Having “observed” them from the start, that was the first I bought, and still, IMHO, their high water mark. I then bought the 2 greatest hits sets and a couple of early ones and, y’know, that’ll do me. And maybe this new one.
‘“observed”’?
Casual observer of articles written rather than listening to, buying product etc.
They did do a Joshua Tree tour in 2017, which was extended to Asia / Australia in 2019 (we had them in Singapore at the end of 2019). It was basically a short set on a small stage of “hits” followed by the Joshua Tree album on the main stage and then an encore that added a few more recent track. It was very good.
In the last 20 years Springsteen has done the following tours/residencies, 10 studio albums released in this period:
2003 The Rising Tour – E St Band – The Rising album heavily featured
2005 Devils and Dust Tour – Solo – D & D heavily featured plus many rarely played obscurities
2006 Seeger Sessions tour – Seeger Sessions Band – Mainly covers + radical re-arrangements
2007-2008 Magic tour – E St Band – Magic album heavily featured
2009 Working on a Dream tour – E St Band – WOAD album heavily featured, some full album shows later
2012-13 -Wrecking Ball tour – E St Band – WB album heavily featured
2014 – High Hopes tour – E St band – HH album features at beginning, moves to some full album shows later
2016-17 – The River tour – E St band – Initially full performances of The River, later moves to a more greatest hits set but playing way more from first 2 albums than usual
2017-2018 (+2021) – Springsteen on Broadway – solo (with Patti Scialfa) – Theatrical performance
2023 – ? – E St band tour
So he mixes it up quite a bit I would say.
OK, tin hat on and gloves off: I rather like that version of Pride. And the Beautiful Day was interesting. Usual AW DOI, not a huge fan, about 5 of their albums, and both “Greatest Hits”, but I do not have the hatred that others seem to have. I guess and think they are a bit redundant and irrelevant these days. Ever since that apple gimmick album.
Nowt like Coldplop, btw, as Bonio’s voice is quite rich rather than the strangled ululations of of their singer.
I wonder if they are slowly seeking/negotiating a way out from the circus. What with the drummer not touring and comments about the rest not feeling it maybe right to leave him behind, it wouldn’t surprise me if this was a farewell, or the beginning of one.
Pretty much the same as you.
The remain a formidable live act, though.
Are you sure about LM not touring any more? The only news i’ve heard in Ireland is that they look like doing a lengthy residence in Las Vegas later this year
Pretty much the same as you.
The remain a formidable live act, though.
Are you sure about LM not touring any more? The only news i’ve heard in Ireland is that they look like doing a lengthy residence in Las Vegas later this year
I’ve never understood the hatred, that’s what it comes across as, for U2, more to the point Bono. Of course he’s a prick for his many unwanted/unwarranted utterances. But let’s face it he isn’t the only one of the rock fraternity who is a complete idiot, very few of them aren’t. Don’t like them because they have money? That’s what happens if what you produce is popular. Most of the people in the industry snort their money up their beaks, others on wine and women and waste the rest (thanks Georgie), some donate lots to good causes others? Do what they want, how different would any of you critics be?
The music? Feck all wrong with it if you’re a fan and let’s face if you don’t like, don’t listen. Me? I have a couple of comps and I may buy this reconfigured best of because if the above song is an example I’m gonna like it. Are they past it, many think so, many don’t. There many more artists in the entertainment/art/creative industry this can apply to.
What gets me with ‘music fans’ who are quick to criticise, nay scoff at others preferences, they never tell us what they like to listen to. Hypocrites?
Track listing for the St Paddy’s day release is up on SDE and looks not bad
One could ask the same question about novelists, architects, film directors, chefs, poets, screenwriters, actors, sculptors, biscuit makers. That original magic seems to have gone: why do you keep doing it?
It’s their job, it’s the thing they know how to do and they are still good at it.
I have had no interest in buying a Neil Young album for years. But I’ve seen him several times at Roskilde and he was magnificent.
Same goes for McCartney. His Roskilde show was stupendous.
And at festivals these artists are playing for an audience with an age rage from 6 to 106.
Several of the AW probably were probably there at Shea Stadium when the Fabs played or in San Francisco in 1967 when the Dead were in their pomp.
But for the youth, to see some of these legends in concert is a rather special experience.
Of course, everyone can retrain or have a parallel career. James Yorkston, Willie Vlautin and Josh Ritter are now feted as accomplished, critically acclaimed novelists.
And the late, great King of Rock and Soul, Solomon Burke diversified into snow clearance and a funeral parlour.
U2 are in an odd position of being a colossal, even iconic, rock group but with no real claim on the “zeitgeist” at all now–I am not sure if anyone under 30 will have listened to them (not the case with NY or the Stones). I am not a fan, but it must be a strange place to be.
My obligatory New Order reference. Half a dozen half-decent tunes in 30 years, and only half a band for the last 18 of them.
I’m going to do my tin hat before I say this, but The Waterboys. Great live, but I’ve heard nothing since Mike Scott’s first solo album (in 1995) that I reach for. Everything since just sits there on the shelf, reminding me of the cash I wasted on them.
3/4 of a band surely? Saw them in September and they were great, better than last time I saw them in 1984.
How dare these bands/acts who no longer meet our approval keep going, so selfish! If 20,000 people want to see them it would be foolish not to. And most (not all) acts need the money, it’s how they make a living. I am glad I don’t have people looking at my work and saying he was much better in his 20s, he shouldn’t really do it any more
Yes, you’re right, Gillian was out for a decade, so the average is closer to 3/4.
I don’t have a problem with anybody carrying on playing live (e.g. Macca, Shakey, NO, VTM) but they really don’t need to release new music unless it matches their previous heights. At least, I hope they don’t expect me to buy it. Unfortunately I often do, which I suppose is my fault, and it then tarnishes my appreciation of them.
I’d struggle to fill one side of an LP with the worthwhile NO tracks since 1993 (arguably, since 1989).
I’m pleased you enjoyed NO. I prefer smaller gigs, so I’d rather see The Light close-up. They’re playing Cambridge Junction soon.
The last New Order album was fine, as good as P, C and L? No, but most of their albums were patchy anyway. A supreme singles band (mainly in the 80s of course)
For a moment there I thought you were referring to Shaky (Stevens) – but the discussion applies to him too, I suppose. 🙂
I saw Shaky at a promotion for chocolates a few years ago. He sang his Christmas song. I didn’t know it was him until the compere announced it after he had finished.
Was your view obscured by a green door?
Oh very good.
Always found it funny that This Ole House is such a jaunty song when it’s about a bloke who seems to be contemplating suicide.
(Cue humourless “Not his song though” rejoinder)
It’s worse that that he was DEAD, Moose!
Songwriter finds a dilapidated old house, theres a dead body inside. Chuckles to himself that the owner just gave up and died because the maintenance of the house was too much for him. Writes song.
Song written by zombie gets Look-In coverage. That was the direction of travel for the eighties right there.
I totes sympathise with that guy. To paraphrase M*******y “When I’m lying in my bed and I think about (having actual workmen in my house, noisily sponging my leccy and hovering round the kettle) and I think about death”, well, the thought of entering the deep, final sleep awarded to the formerly alive does particularly appeal to me..
At least they drink proper hot drinks like adults. Most workmen these days seem to subsist on pop and foul-smelling energy drinks. An example of the collapse of civilised values.
An Appointment with Mr Yeats is a wonderful record.
Fabulous live band. Anyone seen them since SW left?
Yeah, that’s the only one I’ve played more than once.
Yeah: without SW at Wickham they were just a loud stadium band. Bit like I imagine U2 might be like. Polished yet soulless. On of the new songs references Memphis and Nashville, suggesting Spiddall and Findhorn but a distant memory.
Wrong re the Waterboys.. They have released a string of very good albums in last 25 years just probably not in the style you want them to be in.
That’s probably a fair comment. I preferred it when MS sang rather than spoke.
@SteveT is correct, ‘Dream Harder’, ‘Too Close To Heaven’, ‘Mr Yeats’, ‘Modern Blues’ are all very good Waterboys albums but there are some clunkers since Dream Harder.
Retro is also correct about them live, they are one of the few bands I risk watching due to tinnitus and Mike does rather shout-sing these days. Still good though.
Dream Harder was 1993, I’m one of the few who bought it and loved it, which is why I made my initial cut off (up there) at 1995. I saw him in the Acoustic Tent at Glastonbury for his solo debut (acoustic, incredible) and the Cambridge Corn Exchange for Still Burning (electric, awful – one of a handful of gigs I’ve walked out of).
Too Close to Heaven is a comp of 1988 Fisherman’s Blues outtakes, isn’t it?
There’s a definite argument to say that Peter Hook And The Light might actually be the best place to see the soul of New Order and Joy Division these days, as good as the main New Order band are live.
I 100% agree with this! They are really great live & the album gigs have been superb.
They are doing 3 nights at Albert Hall in Manchester in April & I will be at all 3. Can’t wait for it
I haven’t seen him (them) live, almost did last summer. But as he is only 25% of either group and he wasn’t the lead singer I would say it is more of a tribute act than the real thing. Is it true he doesn’t even play bass live?
Hooky did sing a few JD/NO recordings (his vocals are closer to Ian’s than Barney’s). His bass-playing son was drafted into The Light so that Hook Snr could concentrate on being the frontman.
He also has a bad back after years of playing the bass round his ankles, so standing up straight helps at his age.
JD? I know he did 1 or 2 with NO (on Movement)
Hooky sang lead on Interzone.
A co-lead. I used to think that was Barney, of course Ian Curtis sang on it too. Read somewhere he did both call and response vocals for the studio version.
Anyway am sure he is good live, but with maybe 1 exception he is singing songs he never sang lead on and not even playing the instrument he played on the records
Hooky lead, Ian on the low BV. According to Hooky’s book* (I just checked).
(*) I know it isn’t all Gospel truth… but do I believe that bit.
This may be where I saw Ian sings both vocals. The plot thickens. They do sound like different voices to me, but on Movement both Barney and Hooky seemed to try to impersonate Curtis. New Order really took off when Barney found his own voice (such as it is) and they discovered dance music.
Next who sings the “Ahhhhhhs: on A Day in the Life? John of course!
Anonymous man on internet post disagrees with published author… shock horror!
Did Bob Holness play on Baker Street, though?
Didn’t he, though?
Still waiting for Gerry to confirm or deny this…
I can’t get past his singing with The Light. There’s something about his personality that comes through in his vocals which makes him seem hamfisted somehow. It’s wrong.
Are you talking about Hooky, or Barney, or Ian? None are exactly Pavarotti.
Well it was clear when I replied to Dai then your comment popped up hence I added ‘The Light’ to my reply. I even considered a reference to Pavarotti when mentioning Barney to be clear that I know none of them are great singers but singing isn’t just being in tune, it’s phrasing and other things. I guess it can help when the one who wrote the text sings, at least when the singers aren’t Pavarotti. Hooky? No thanks.
I didn’t know that about Interzone. Assumed that Hannett, who regarded JD as “a genius and three idiots” wouldn’t have allowed such a thing.
It was the song they came up with when attempting to cover Keep On Keeping On in the studio, and Hooky ran with it, so Ian stepped aside. But they aren’t exactly contrasting voices.
Rather like Foxton singing in the Jam and sounding like Weller when he did so.
To be fair in 1978 nearly every Englishman was singing like that – the way that Bruce goes “Wo-oh-oh-orllld” in NOTW for example. Even Norman St John Stevas had a go at it, which was disconcerting.
Wasn’t it “a genius singer and 3 Man. Utd. fans”?
Which is far more disparaging and amusing, of course.
I was thinking about this when the Beeb’s FA Cup coverage of the City game featured a mock up of the Movement LP cover and either New Order or Joy Division music in the background (I can’t remember and it was both striking and only a couple of days ago. Yikes!). These are United supporters who will also, incidentally, proudly tell you that they are not from Manchester at all..
The mock up record cover did look ace, though..
Rob Gretton was a City fan I believe.
And then there is the case of a band seemingly going through the motions, and then they come back with one of their best albums.
Iron Maiden did it a couple of times. First when Bruce Dickinson and Adrian Smith left, and then returned for Brave New World in 2000.
And then they pulled Book Of Souls out of the closet in 2015 – their best for many a year.
Metallica had been going through the motions since the Black album, and then along comes Hardwired To Self Destruct.
It’s always a troublesome question this, because (due to this being the internet and the right room for an argument) you will always get the answer, “Well, why SHOULD they stop??”.
But you won’t hear that from me 🙂 and I agree with the spirit of your question. I think the answer’s very simple though, and has already been mentioned above. They don’t know how to do anything else. And if you are any kind of artist or creative person, it’s nigh on impossible to judge yourself and say “I’ve done all my best work now, let’s draw a line there”. There’s actually something beautiful and tragic about people still clinging to delusions of artistic relevance and that next hit album.
Respect to Billy Joel who hasnt released an album in ages coz he reckons the songs arent up to scratch. He played some mega show down here saying “so you are gonna get the same old shit you got last time”. Did the crowd boo and rush for the exits?
Not likely.
Of course he could just have lost confidence in his songwriting and be denying his audience the pleasure of some great new songs. We may never know.
It’s possible that the other artists who DO keep releasing new inferior stuff are doing so purely because, while they still feel the compulsion to get up on a stage and perform, they’re sick of playing the old material again and again.
And what else does a songwriter do between tours, in his/her home studio, except write songs?
You’d think he would road test a few amongst confidantes. Maybe he just can’t be arsed even trying.
Maybe he likes the shows…wait for it…just the way they are.
*polite ripple of applause around the auditorium*
audience falls to sleep again.
Oh, my life!
I still buy and mostly enjoy Neil Young’s albums. Is he going to record another masterpiece, pick from any of up to a dozen up to 1980, no way. However I find something to like every time he releases new stuff. Many others don’t.
The same can be said for many ageing musicians, that’s a fact. I’m thankful that those who choose to continue to perform do so. If Dylan had packed in in the 80’s as many of his fans thought he should do so we’d be without at least 6 masterpieces* from the great man. There are others you may wish to nominate.
*Nominate your own or disagree because there are a few which ain’t masterpieces.
NY should do another Decade set, with the best of his last 46 (!) years for us lightweights (my last LP purchase was 1992’s Harvest Moon), but he’s more into the massive wallet-busting archive sets.
You need Sleeps With Angels at the very minimum
My quick Neil guide: Everything up to Trans, then This Note up to Angels. Anything else is for his very forgiving fans.
I’m not an NY fan, I only have 16 of his albums (not counting Springfield and CSNY) 😏
This is the material he mostly plays live too, not a new album no one has yet heard. He gets that at least. The show I saw not so long ago with Promise Of The Real was cracking. He seemed to be having a ball. In that regard he was at the top of his game.
You can leave out Reactor probably as well as Long May They Run. For me there at least 5 decent albums after SWA but I am not going to name them
Oh, go on – why not?
Silver and Gold
Harvest Moon
Psychedelic Pill
Le Noise
Prairie Wind
Oops HM preceded SWA
ok WTF, Greendale (I like it anyway)
Long May They Run?
Presumably that’s the super-duper
4-disc expanded special edition of
Long May You Run.
I think I have the CD. I’d have to consult my spreadsheet (I know…) or go and open a drawer in a cupboard. I can’t remember the last time I played it, mind.
My vinyl collection lives in open Kallax shelving and looks at me several times a day to remind me how much it all cost.
So … not just me with everything logged on a spreadsheet
Artist – Title – Year – Label – Purchase Price – Source
(Yes, I’m dull. And did go back through the history of my mind to recall long gone record shops that had my paper round money)
Yes TCTH is a comp of Fisherman’s Blues outtakes but @SteveT insist we treat it as a proper album because it’s very good, I agree.
I also agree with you about Dream Harder, after FB & This Is The Sea(I was going to abbreviate that one) it’s my most played Waterboys album.
As far as keeping a record of my collection, which came in very handy when I was burgled 30+ years ago, I find Artist, Tiltle & Year enough info.
Yebbut, A Pagan Place is their best. Cuh.
Never mind the Kallax, Here’s My My Hey Hey
Landing on Kellax
I thought Neil should do another Decade every decade. I’d buy those.
It’s kind of what he is doing with Archives, vol 3 coming later this year (allegedly). Vol 2 is sensational
“Yes” should definitely only do gigs. I think the last genuinely decent stuff was the studio side of “Keys to Ascension”, released last century, and bits of “Magnification” (released 2001). And, after 16 live albums, possibly no more required? It’s not like they are a jamming band with interesting re-interpretations of well-loved classics. The last time they tried somethign interesting ehre was the unplugged section of the 2004 tour. That working so well, they obviously decided not to bother again.
They plod on because they can. While people want to go and see them and/or buy their records and they are healthy enough to do it, then why not…? It’s entertainment. One could make a similar point about authors or painters or poets – their masterpieces make them famous, but they can very probably never repeat that.
Also worth remembering that the vast majority of musicians aren’t rich.
When it comes to being past your sell-by date Stephen Patrick Morrissey has surely found a new low. Can just about make a case for You Are the Quarry (2004) but since then it’s twenty years of ever-worsening albums and every worsening statements. Possibly the least likely to come up with a Dylan-esque late career masterpiece.
I’d possibly add Van to your list, but I’m giving Dai the day off.
Van’s new skiffle album may be interesting
Oh thanks dai, that’s a classic 🤣
It’s a classic? So you have a pre-release? 😉
It might even be…. iconic 🤭
His covers album California Son is ace, but probably doesn’t count in this context.
I’m in two minds about the new version of Pride – it’s interesting, but I think the song needs the powerful sound / bombast of the original. That said, I will give this new album a listen.
Artists re-imagining tracks can work really well (the recent Roger Waters Lockdown Sessions is very good) but it can sometimes smack of desperation.
I don’t think U2 are past their sell by date in anyway – they still sell out mega stadiums and still put on good shows. People would stop going if they were crap. Does it really matter that recent years have only produced sporadically good new tracks when they have such a strong back catalogue ?
I think U2 are great to carry on and I’ve never had a problem with any of them personally. Pretentious and self important but thats what we want from our rock stars isn’t it?
Music wise it’s a completely different story. I’ve got a couple of the 80’s albums plus Zooropa and whilst they are perfectly fine, they don’t move me. None of their music since Zooropa is “bad” it’s just “meh”. There’s probably the odd good track in there if I really searched for it but life’s too short to be trawling through the back catalogue of a frankly average to good band. I’ve got to get through all of Neil and Vans back catalogue first…
U2 are absolutely greatest hits compilation type of band to me.
Elvis Costello seems to have slowed down a tiny bit since releasing an album every year (sometimes two) without fail. It’s now, one album every two years. He once said, “If I change my sound, critics say it’s not as good as his old classic stuff, but then if I do record an album that harks back to my past, the same critics will tell me I haven’t moved on and a one trick pony. You can’t win.”
CAN.
BB1974.
Fray Bentos?
I keep thinking 10cc. They seem to be the answer to most things.
Stewart and Gouldman soldiered on after Godley and Creme left in 1976. They split in 1983. …Meanwhile is the comeback LP, produced by Gary Katz, no less, recorded with crack musicians in 1992. Godley and Creme provided vocals, mostly backing, but no songs. It’s a weird album. 10cc were always polished but you can see your face in …Meanwhile. There were no hits but there are ‘hidden’ gems.
For the richer acts, surely it just becomes a hobby when you’re a millionaire. I’m in my mid 60s and not ready to retire yet. I like my job, why should I jack it in and spend my time doing something less enjoyable?
Who defines the sell by date? My go to example is always Sparks. They’re probably bigger worldwide now than they’ve ever been, and certainly since the early 70s. I’m certainly glad they haven’t called it a day. I’m not sure they’d welcome the tag of heritage act either.