There! I have said it and, I believe, it may well be the same for many others on this site (in the UK at least.)
Is anyone else prepared to ‘come out’ and admit to it?
Wogan’s death means more to me than Bowie’s death
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I’m probably with you, Daff. It’s not a competition, and I hope no one will think this is combative or disrespectful, but as you ask… purely on a personal level I had no emotional connection to David B. I enjoyed a couple of his singles and I like the Pin Ups album, but that’s really it. Again, that’s not to take away from anyone’s grief or to deny his obvious influence on aspects of popular culture etc etc. Wogan, however, was a more prominent figure in terms of the culture I grew up in.
hat’s fine, daff. It’s not some kind of competition. For me, Bowie’s death was a punch in the chest while Terry was more of an ‘Awww …’
It’s the difference between losing a mate who was a crucial part of my adolescence and an old uncle I hadn’t seen for years. If sure everyone else who was saddened by both men’s death will have their own analogies to indicate the depth of emotion felt.
I’ll admit Sir Terry’s death struck me more than I imagined, and very touching to read what appear to have been very genuine tributes. His was a life well lived and a nice tribute on the passenger board at my nearest tube stn; with the front cover of today’s paper “IN MEMORY OF AND THANKS”. David Bowie connected with me in a different way. They will both be missed, they have been around for so long it seems odd to be without them. It’s been a hell of a January, thank god it’s over
Sorry I wasn’t meaning it to sound like a competition and apologies to anyone who might take it the wrong way. Likewise I wasn’t trying to suggest those who expressed emotions or were deeply saddened by the deaths were wrong to do so.
I couldn’t relate to all the outpouring for Bowie because, similar to Colin H, I just liked the odd song or two plus the Young Americans album. Wogan however seemed to accompany me for years as our children were growing up – getting ready for work, dropping the children at school and continuing my drive to work. I suppose in reality his death has stirred up memories of 20-30 years ago – things that have gone and can’t be repeated and made me more aware of my own mortality.
The reactions to their deaths have been illuminating. I always knew that Bowie was a genius and the reaction bore this out. Wogan I thought was a bit cosy and slightly sexist. Turns out he was ‘subversive’ and a comic genius. I still think he was slightly sexist and I’m not sure I agree that he was subversive but I’ve certainly had my eyes opened as to his talents.
What’s wrong with sexy?
Beyond basic human sympathy, neither of their deaths really meant anything to me.
That’s EXACTLY what a massive psychopath serial killer would say.
Yes, that’s why I said it.
*stares, unblinkingly, at Gary*
Your sympathy does you enormous credit, Bingo, you great big girl’s blouse.
I really don’t get the “sad news – terrible month” angle. What’s sad about dying? Eh? It’s no inherently sadder than being born or the bit in between we call living.
If we can celebrate someone’s life when they die, that’s good. Should make us happy and glad the departed ever arrived. Bowie and Wigan made huge numbers of people very happy, and in Bowie’s case a recorded legacy will ensure he’s appreciated for a few more years yet. Hurrah!
In any event, people will continue to die, even famous celebrities, so best not get too upset about it when it’s at some remove from our personal experience. Remember the good stuff and be grateful.
*turns stare to Saucecraft*
*twitches slightly*
“runs finger around collar*
*stares at glass of water*
Also:
“What’s sad about dying?” – Afterword tshirt.
Would the death of any musician or entertainer mean anything to you? I don’t think it would to me. When people do get upset over Bowie say, it seems to be because they were they grew up with him. He was theirs. Much as I love music, the artists I like the most were not contemporary when I started listening to them. My favourite records at college were Dylan’s from 1965-1975, so at least 4 years old when I first heard them, which was enough to mean I didn’t feel any attachment to him as a person. And when he dies, his records will still be there. I wouldn’t deny that it could be different for others.
I think it depends on the nature of their death. If they were young and it was particularly tragic, then perhaps moreso. If I’d been looking forward to more music/entertainment from them, then maybe.
But in general terms, I can’t imagine being genuinely upset about the death of someone I don’t actually know. There are plenty of musicians I love, but – if I’m honest – it would upset me more if one of you lot on here died than if Bob Dylan went tomorrow, because I haven’t the foggiest idea who Bob Dylan is as a human being, and because what I did ever know of him (his music) remains in place. There is no real personal loss to me.
I think you’re spot on about the records still being there.
Imagine when Durst carks it.
IF YOU CAN.
Pah. Durst will outlive us all.
Durst and the cockroaches, fighting it out on a barren, burnt-out shell of a planet. 500 years hence…
You don’t really know until it hits you. It’s not like you choose. I didn’t think it would happen to me either but I was affected by Bowie’s death despite not being that greatly into his music. It’s not rational. I never had that kind of response before with a public figure. You might be taken by surprise some day, maybe not a music star but someone.
Obviously, that’s entirely possible. I’ve felt a teeny tiny bit sad when both Kurt Vonnegut and Joe Strummer died. I just can’t imagine anyone going who would have that big impact on me. I don’t really do “heroes”, and most of the ones I do have are long since dead – the dead ones don’t tend to be as prone to letting you down.
I don’t do heroes either. So much of the idea of a star is myth and so many of them are or have at some time been arseholes. Still I felt it anyway. A bit choked up hearing the records, finding it hard to accept. Just a couple of days but there it is.
Oh I don’t know. Tupac’s output improved immediately after his death but has drifted away since. Jimi is an interesting case. Early flourish followed by decreasing returns until a sudden resurgence at the turn of the century.
With Jimi, there was a ( slight return )……sorry
Hmm. Aside from the hits, I only got into Bowie about 7 or 8 years ago, so none of his music was contemporary to me – except of course for The Next Day and Blackstar. But on Jan 11th, just after 7am, I too was on the receiving end of that “punch in the gut”*. Perhaps it coming so soon after the release of the brilliant Blackstar made it more shocking. I don’t know. It’s never happened before with someone I didn’t actually know.
*aside from the fact that at first I thought they’d said “David Bellamy” (who, confusingly, I wrongly believed was already dead)
Hmmm yeh to be honest I hadn’t thought about either of them much in the last 20 years, and even then only knew them for their work, which we still have. I’ll leave the grief to those that knew them as people rather than icons.
Like Bingo, I wasn’t particularly moved by either. But it did strike me yesterday that there must be a lot of people who would be touched by TWs death. He had a radio show on and off for over 40 years, the old breakfast shows had 8 million odd listeners and his fans.would have been listening to him for hours a week, if not every day.
I have (Had?) one problem with Wogan – Children in need – I am sure that I have read that the annual chariddee telethon/smugfest was a huge annual payday for him.
call me a simplistic idealist if you want to (& TBPH, you would probably be right), but I find it distasteful that he is paid very handsomely for asking plebs like me to dig deep into my pocket for the cause.
Of course I have no idea what financial contributions he makes privately, but the idea of the on screen talent trousering big bucks while those of us at the lower end of the food chain make donations does not sit well with me.
As ever, OOAA.
Well I spose we don’t know whether he made a donation, and at least the money didn’t come from the Children in Need dosh, it was just his BBC salary.
The ‘public’ death that I was most saddened by in recent years was Christopher Martin-Jenkins on Test Match Special.
It simply occurred to me that I must have listened to his voice in terms of months (2 hours a day for 30/35 days for each of the last 30 or 40 summers, plus winter tours and match reports) rather than in terms of days or weeks.
David Attenborough is 89
When Keith Richards goes I won’t be sad, because he’s been a dead man walking for so long. When Jagger goes I won’t be sad, because I don’t have any sentimental attachment to him, although I do to the entity called The Rolling Stones.
When Sir Thumbsaloft and Bongo go I will be sad (assuming I haven’t gone before), because there won’t be any Beatles any more. That will leave a huge hole in my life, although I dare say they aren’t losing any sleep about it.
But as Deram says, you don’t really know until it happens.
Neither bothered or surprised by Wogan. Admired his ability to tap a wide sentimental streak of the population, and his chatshow was fun for the guests he had and what he got out of them, but didn’t like his old style schmooze.He did actually have quite a good taste in music as his discoveries showed, even if people more note his championing of Melua and Cassidy over others like Beth Neilson Chapman.
Bowie was just wow. Hunkdory to the Blackstar , always a surprise and original, even when I didn’t like him. There was always another him along in a while that i did. Or grew into the older ones.
No contest.
My biggest problem with Wogan seems to be the main reason everyone else adores him – Eurovision.
I could never understand the concept of presenting several hours of rubbish music as a wall-to-wall piss-take. It didn’t make any sense at all to me.
The humour was condescending, forced and mainly self-evident: the costumes, the poorly translated English lyrics, the hairstyles. Worst of all, it wasn’t particularly funny.
But then I’ve never understood how in recent years the song contest has become gay catnip with weeks of build-up and people hosting Eurovision parties on the night
Yeah, bring back Katie Boyle say I.
Mmmm, yes, the lovely Katie.
For me Eurovision was better when it took itself seriously and left the viewer to laugh at the naffness.
It doesn’t work for me when we are told it’s crap at the outset, then lead by the hand and spoon-fed sneers and quips at every step for what seems like an eternity.
Do you *really* not understand how the ESC has become gay catnip, JC?
Oh yeah, I do see why. But clearly the show didn’t start out that way but now it seems Eurovision is pitched equally at the gay and “let’s laugh at foreigners” demographic
As happens fairly frequently on the AW I think you’re confusing “gay” with “camp”. None of the gay people I know would be in the slightest bit interested in the Eurovision, whereas the campest chap I know (a heterosexual Irishman) loves it.
I suspect there might be a substantial overlap between “camp” and “gay” even so.
I see the banner above the headline on tomorrow’s (Tuesday’s) Daily Mail screams “Why Wogan Moved Britain In A Way Bowie Couldn’t”.
Quite so. I’m sure the grannies out in the provinces preferred their daily dose of gentle Irish blarney and enjoyed “Fighting The Flab” more than getting to grips with that difficult Berlin Trilogy or discussing the Andy Warhol connection.
Bowie got me, as others have said, because he had just released brilliance. If it was three years ago before the Next Day I am sure the nation’s reaction would have been different. He was out of public consciousness for so long that the Next Day was like the resurrection and Blackstar appeared to signal his creative renaissance and then it was taken away.
For me personally the ones I found hardest to tie were John Martyn and my beloved Bobby Charles. Never prolific him but what he did do was pure class.
Lot of respect for Wogan but not really on my radar other than at fleeting moments on his breakfast radio show when my wife and I shared our marmalade and toast before setting off for work.
Bobby Charles in a Wogan thread. Love it, gator.
Well ,Daff ,seems the mail reads your posts
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/arthurdog/CaKfJxEXEAAlDEL_zpsd73srur2.jpg
As someone just tweeted: Wed: why Robin Cook was better than Elvis. Thurs: Bagpuss vs Princess Di. Friday: Jesus vs Tony Hart
Fair do’s, though. It is The Daily Mail, the archive of all that is foul and wrong with the human spirit.
Yes, so we’re constantly told
Wow! I thought that Mail story was a spoof!
For what it’s worth, I’d definitely place Bagpuss over Princess Di and, in fairness to her, I suspect she would have to.
To be fair, Bagpuss has had more impact on the country than Diana. She’s been Queen for 60 years
Yer. Fair do’s to the old girl I say. She done more for the country than that facker on TV, that muslin. Say what you like but old Bagpuss bloody works her balls off no offence for the country earnin’ millions in tourism an’ that shes known an’ respected all over the Hempire more strength to her say I ‘ere’s to your majesty, Queen Bagpuss II an’ so what if she’s a German so was Itler. Fackin’ muslins.
Nice to see you back on the blog, Mr Crout.
Your soulful input & excellent playlists have been missed.
The only Wogan stuff I liked were his Eurovision commentaries.
It’s clear that Graham Norton REALLY loves Eurovision which should, pretty much, preclude him from doing the job.
I’ve had The Floral Dance on constant rotation.
Yes, Terry’s gently self-mocking, yet somehow irresistibly charming cover of the Brighouse and Rastrick Brass Band’s 1977 hit has never been far from the Dansette here as well.
How’s it affected business. Ian? More customers than when you were playing “The Voyeur of Utter Destruction (as Beauty)” 24/24?
Business? Deader than Terry.
RIP ASSPORN RESTUARANT NUMBER ONE IN ARE HAERTS FOR TASTY THAI TAKEAWAY YOU WER ALWAY ARE CHOICE FOR CHEESE N’ PRAWN PAD THAIBURGER RIP MATE FROM NEV AND MANDA AT NUMBER 49
One of the points made in that Mail piece is that the average pensioner knew who Terry Wogan was but wouldn’t have a clue about ‘Ziggy Stardust’.
Do you think these journalists did maths at school?
The pensionable age for a female is now 62 (?), I believe.
The 20 year old who bought ‘Ziggy Stardust’ in 1972 would now be 63/64.
A 25 year old will soon be hitting 70.
If, when I’m 95, some Mail journalist informs me I like Frank Sinatra or Perry Como, I am going to use my bus pass to track them down and ever-so-gently explain the situation via some Gene Vincent recordings.
I take your point about the perpetuation of a stereotypical view of pensioners. The same is true of grandparents, often still portrayed as people who went through WW2. Where I live they are more likely to been through the first Iraq war.
All that said, I think the Mail is still probably right in broad terms if we think of pensioners being in a 25 -30 year age range post 65. They overstate things in the sense that many will have heard of Bowie, but far more will have been active Wogan fans.
I am a pensioner, have been for 8 years. I was 25 when I bought Ziggy Stardust. So Tristram Shit-for-Brains of the Daily Mail can fuck right off.
Don’t forget to get your dementia iPod ready, Deram, or they’ll be force-feeding you David Whitfield down at the Dunrockin’ Care home.
Yeah, I better get it sorted!
Just seen the Wogan interview with Tin Machine.
Slightly awkward, but then I’ve never seen a Wogan interview with anyone that wasn’t.
The Mail guy hints that Bowie was ‘on something’…..really? He looked fine to me. I suspect there were far more wired people in the BBC bar!
ASTOUNDING POINT ALERT: it’s all about your personal connections. Some people felt connected to Bowie, some to Wogan, some to neither, some to both. I was upset when MCA of the Beastie Boys died but that’s because I had grown up with them, seen them live etc. He had been in my life.
That Mail piece is reprehensible. Why does it have to be a competition?
They had diametrically different jobs, didn’t they. One took it upon himself to pass the time away cosily and benignly. The other was provocative and stimulating. One was delighted to accept a knighthood. The other rejected all invitations to join the establishment.
You pay yer money and takes yer choice. I know which I choose.
One was nothing but himself – talking freely about his life, living through the same mundane ups and down as the rest of us, speaking to us as a friend about things we had in common. The other was anything but himself, hiding behind characters all his career, keeping us one step distant from himself, and never giving everything away. I can see why people might miss the first one more.
Oh I don’t know. I reckon Terry had his secrets.
If he did, he kept them under his hat…
…along with his national treasure. Bless.
There was droll article in The Onion a couple of years ago imagining the domestic life of David Bowie and Iman as being pretty much like everyone else’s. It sounded convincing to me.
A typical extract:
“Hon, it looks like we have most of the stuff we need for lasagna, should we just do that again?” said the provocative pansexual front man who once called his ex-wife claiming that he had been kidnapped by a warlock and two witches. “We could add some fresh basil, too. I’m pretty sure there’s some in the crisper drawer.”
http://www.theonion.com/article/david-bowie-asks-iman-if-they-should-just-do-lasag-34097
Although they had diametrically different jobs, it struck me they had similarities – both although at the top of the game, were kind and respectful to those they worked with and didn’t play the “celebrity” card. Both wished to keep their private life private, and not splashed over the pages of Hello, and when they were faced with terminal illness, they told virtually no-one and took their leave the way they wished. Oh and both had a hit with the word “Dance” in it.
True. Also both released annoying and successful novelty records and were big Velvet Underground fans.
I think The Afterworf has blood on its hands here. Some open-mouthed chewing tosser saw the OP headline from a Google search and went to the newsroom, saying “Wogan better than Bowie, yeah? That’s our headline tomorrow. Just write any old fucking shit, Tristram. Don’t care what it is.”
I feel much the same way, I think it’s down to the uniquely intimate nature of radio as a medium.
Whilst I’ve been aware of Bowie and liked some of his music he’s always been a rather remote figure. Wogan on the other hand I’ve spent an hour or more a day with for a big chunk of my life, he’s bound to leave a greater impression, not least because he’s seldom failed to make me laugh, or at least raise a wry smile.
I’m reminded of an Eels interview where E is asked “how much were you affected by the death of Aalliyah?” and he answers along the lines of “well, its was about a third of Kurt Cobain, maybe an eighth of Jeff Buckley etc”