Gigs, I’m talking, although, as largely a forum of mature gentlemen, this may equate equally to matters micturitional. A lot of posts have mentioned the merits of a seat, whilst mentally moshing to the performance on stage, several going as far as to state that their days of standing for any length of time are behind them.
Me, much as I love a seat for a posh gig, yer Symphony Hall and yer Town Hall, increasingly my tastes see me frequenting venues where, if you want a seat, you have to arrive way too early, to stake a claim. Or sit behind unfeasibly large headed individuals who block any view. So, given the choice, I’ll stand, ta. My knees don’t thank me, and complain, swelling with their dissent, often quite painfully. But I prefer the freedom, the right to roam, not least as I like to get as close the front as I can.
Festivals make up most my live these days, and this is added to, on an additional governing principle. The demographic at folk festivals is not young; “afterword friendly” an epithet that could be used. Aka so fucking old, often, to embarrass me, until, of course, I catch my reflection. What are traditionally called chair wankers form massive ranks at such festivals, offending my entitled sense of lone grooverdom. As such I have to insist on standing, to separate myself from these old codgers, ending up in near agony, by the end of a 12 hour day.
Dear Marge, what should I do? And, dear tribe, what do you do?
Standing up or sitting down?
by 65 Comments
With rare exceptions I would much rather be seated. I can’t imagine sitting for, say, Peat and Diesel but being surrounded shoulder to shoulder by people isn’t conducive to enjoying the show for me. That goes doubly for winter gigs when the crowd and layers of clothing send the gig goer out into the cold air in an uncomfortable sweat. I want to sit back, relax and enjoy the show. Also, The Light is my usual gig going companion. She’s much shorter than me and seats, assuming a decent slope, give a much better chance of both of us getting a decent view. Given a free choice my favourite spot is the centre of the front row of the balcony.
Standing for most as a preference. I’m seeing Sleeper tonight at Brighton and I’ll be stood up. Seating seems to suck the energy out of a performance.
Seated, and at the end of a row. I think I’m a bit claustrophobic and being crammed in surrounded by people is not pleasant. Probably for this reason I don’t go to that many gigs and wild horses couldn’t get me to the bigger stages at a festival.
This is me. Seat. End of row. I do not like being mid-row at all anymore. Not just because I often become anxious about needing a widdle, I do feel slightly panicked at being hemmed in amongst so many people all focussed on a performance.
Exactamundo. We’re staying with friends this weekend and are off to the arts centre tonight for a little gig and I have no idea where the seats are. I realise it’s unlikely we’ve got an end seat so I’m not really looking forward to it.
UPDATE as I am amongst friends. My friends had booked seats 4,5,6 and 7 so I expected the worst but against all logic 7 was the end of the row so I was sorted. Just as well, like @Ainsley I struggle with cramped seating and was able to twist and stretch both legs into the aisle in the second half before my right knee locked up. We’re off to the cinema tonight and it’s a bijou art deco place, nicely set up, so we’re in the small theatre with doublesofa style seats and tons of legroom – and have the end of the row. Happy days.
What a touch! Excellent work from all involved.
This is me as well. Definitely seated at the end of a row, or no more than a couple of seats in. It’s funny how times change, because once upon a time I used to love being in the middle of a row as it felt great to be surrounded by people, and the atmosphere was great. That was until I had a panic attack at one show, and would never ever book the middle of a row again. Like you say the end seat is great for nipping out to the loo if needed without disturbing anyone, but also leaving early if it’s not such a great show, which we’ve done on a few occasions. We went to see a play a few weeks ago, and the number of people who were disturbing a whole row just to go to the toilet after about half an hour was incredible. It spoiled the show for a lot of people, when there was an interval after an hour anyway. Too many people who drink too much before a show, and can’t hold it in for an hour.
Sorry to hear about the panic attack. I’m reasonably sure I’ve never had one. As I get older though I am aware of feeling ‘panicky’ if hemmed in by a large crowd. That and a genuine anxiety about disturbing people. I prefer being to one side. It soothes me and, of course, with the security of an end of row my famously weak bladder suddenly has the capacity and strength of an oil tanker.
Ultra huge crowds can become very claustrophobic very quickly, if the space is limited. One of the reasons I avoid stadium gigs. I was about 5 people from the front at Glastonbury, and quite pleased with that, 20 minutes before Lana Del Rey was scheduled to start. But the area kept filling and filling and filling, giving me frissons of anxiety about a Hillsboro’ taking place, so, not without difficulty, I exfiltrated myself. As it happened, she started late and was cut short by the curfew, so I didn’t feel overly disappointed by making that decision.
The GLW has to book seats for anything, gig, theatre etc that include an end of row seat for me or I pretty much won’t go. It’s not claustrophobia in my case, just want a decent chance of being able to have somewhere to stick a leg to avoid spending the entire thing with my knees jammed up against the seat in front for two hours.
On a slightly related note, why can’t fuckwits apparently fail to last half a performance without going to the loo or the bar two or three times and having to disturb everyone else in their row in the process?
Some of those “fuckwits” may have had a recent prostatectomy. Probably best if they stay at home, mind, so as not to inconvenience you.
I’m mindful of potential circumstances beyond individuals control and I would accept a degree of lack of charity on my part were it not for the fact that on the two recent occasions this has been an issue, it was clearly just a case of multiple visits to the bar and it’s results.
I don’t go to gigs, but I find the same on planes. I quite often fly between Sardinia and mainland Italy. It never ceases to amaze me how many people need to go to the loo during the one hour flight. Of course, I can forgive the elderly or people with health problems, but when a young, clearly healthy person makes me stand up cos they forgot to go before boarding, I tend to assassinate them.
It is certainly a gift – to be able to tell which of your fellow passengers might have a urinary problem, just by looking at them. Helps you to know who to forgive…
I imagine very few people are unable to last just one hour without going to the loo. And I always allow them the opportunity to produce a medical certificate before deciding whether to assassinate them.
I was told by a physiotherapist that specialises in such things that the “normal” gap between needing to go for a wee should be 2-3 hours.
Depends on who you’re seeing and where.
While the odds of me going to see someone like Bruce in concrete canyons like Croke Park are zero (once was enough), I do go to smaller outdoor shows (Neil and Van at Marlay).
On the whole would rather go and see a gig in a small sweaty club (standing by necsssty) rather than sitting down in a big arena
A while back, I realised that the live music experience can broadly be split across three poles, for me at least.
The first is the gig where all the action is onstage. Where if the rest of the audience left it wouldn’t really detract from the experience at all, because the musicians are making the art and you’re all largely passive observers, beyond the polite applause between songs. These gigs can be fantastic – wonderful music performed to pin drop silence. The recent Sigur Ros shows reviewed on here fall squarely into this category.
A few days after said Sigur Ros, I got a good example of the second category, which is the gig where the magic is in the crowd. Where if the crowd left the whole thing would fall apart. A friend asked me to join him for Gene’s reunion show at Brixton Academy. I have no emotional attachment to Gene or their music, but the venue was crammed to capacity with middle aged people singing along to every word and reliving their collective youth. I couldn’t pick a Gene song out of a line up and I doubt I’ll ever listen to them again, but I had a great time surfing off the top of all that emotion. I was there for the crowd, and for my mate – his joy became my joy too.
The third pole is the gig where everything comes together. The act onstage are red hot, the audience are absolutely buzzing, and there’s an interplay between the two where they start to power each other. These are – to my mind – the best gigs of all, and also the hardest to find. Usually it’s a young act with a young crowd, because it’s especially potent when both act and audience are discovering for the first time their shared power in unison.
When I go to gigs these days I tend to ask myself where my expectations are in terms of these three poles, and adjust my mindset accordingly. The first case is best for sitting, but for the latter two I’d want to be stood up, and ideally in the middle of things. There’s nothing more painful than being in the seats when it’s clear the action is on the floor – you end up a spectator to the people having a really good time.
On reflection, the vast majority of my favourite gigs have been stood up.
Sitting down for me not through choice but necessity. I can’t stand for too long and I’ve been offered a chair at some gigs or booked one. However I do need to stand occasionally as i need to alleviate the pain from sitting for too long.
I sat in the disabled area the last time I was at Cropredy which was fine as it was a raised platform with a view over the heads. Madness last year had a wheelchair area and a seated area for those unable to stand it was to the side and quite a way back so you felt a bit out of it.
Given your own “maturity”, @retropath2, me old chum – your second paragraph does seem surprisingly and unnecessarily harsh…
Irony, dear boy, irony: “until I catch my reflection”….
You say potato…etc
My favourite place is standing up on the periphery with a wall or pillar to lean against and away from the heaving crowd.
This thread reminds me of Lullaloop, Robert Wyatt’s take on getting old:
“Hey! You! / Bin that bebop / Ditch the dancing / Night’s for lying down.
“Bin that bebop / Ditch the dancing / Don that duvet / Cook the cocoa / Turn that music down!”
Given the price of most gigs these days, I think the provision of a seat is a minimum requirement. However, I have to agree that increasing age and arthritic knees come into that equation. I know @retropath2 was at Cropredy this year as was I, and I think they get it pretty much spot on – a large area at the front for standing, dancing and so on, and a respected line behind which you can have a chair. We tend to have the best of both worlds – we have chairs for much of the time, but get down the front for anything where we want to see the whites of their eyes.
We tend to go for the smaller gigs and if I was on my own I would prefer to stand . As I usually go with my wife who is a lot shorter than me sitting is the best option . Two nights ago we saw Police Dog Hogan at the Gloucester Guildhall , lovely venue with a very bouncy dance floor. Unfortunately the gig was seated so no dancing ( my knees welcomed that ) and I didn’t enjoy the gig so much .
I’ve semi-retired from going to gigs, but when I do go I want to stand, even with that poxy knee of mine. Preferably at the front of the room – if I can see too much of the audience I tend to get self-conscious and unable to really get lost in the music. It’s like watching a film of the gig, and seeing myself in it. And the crowds in the back tends to be a bit boring as well!
Sitting down is for classical music and jazz, neither which I have gone to hear live in years.
Sitting for a long time is worse for my aches and pains than standing up, and there’s nothing to do about it once you’re stuck in your row.
These days I mainly choose gigs by the venue: is it close enough to home, is it small enough for the intimate experience, is it standing room only, are the acoustics good there? It would have to be a very beloved artist for me to go to a venue where the answer to those questions aren’t yes. My next question is “Have I seen them live before?” If so, I probably don’t feel an urgent need to see them again, unless (possibly) the first time for some reason was a terrible experience, for reasons not to do with the artist/band.
I’ve been thinking about your last point @locust . If you want to see someone enough go to a gig, then enjoy the show, have a great time, come out with that warm glow all gig-goers know, then why wouldn’t you want to repeat it if the same artist or band came to a venue near you again?
@Gatz, it depends on the band/artist of course, some I would go to see live again (and have).
But I’m not an enthusiastic gig-goer anyway, I usually find the experience to be stressful, uncomfortable and often not living up to expectations. So if I can find an excuse not to attend, I’m quite relieved!
And then there’s this fear I have that if a gig was perfect, the next gig I’d attend by the same artist would probably not be even half as good, and then that will spoil the memory of that first, perfect gig! Again; it wouldn’t of course, it’s probably just another excuse I use to not have to go to gigs…
It’s a strange thing – I DO enjoy live music, but at the same time I don’t. Too many people, too much waiting around, I’m physically and socially uncomfortable, it’s stressful to get there in good time (but not too early) and a pain to get home afterwards (after standing in line forever to get your coat).
It’s often difficult to get a ticket, and/or they’re expensive. But when a really good live artist is in a great mood and the audience too, it’s very exhilarating and wonderful; you just can’t bank on that to happen. Which is part of the thrill, but also a source of much frustration through the years…
If there is the option to stand, then that’s my preference, typically leaving a triangle of empty space behind my considerable frame. But half my gigs are at my folk club and other similarly sized venues and I’d look a berk if I insisted on standing at those.
For me it varies from gig to gig. In general I would rather sit down to hear intricate music – singer-songwriter, folk or folk-rock, most every kind of jazz, for sure, and that’s the vast majority of what I go to hear live. There can be exceptions; for example a while back a mate and I went to see Jason Isbell in a tiny venue with no seats, and his performance was so electrifying that the standing around didn’t worry me too much at all; mind you the crowd was nowhere near full (it was around the time of the Southeastern album) and that helped enormously – if I can wander about a little I can stand for prolonged periods, but in a rammed place it becomes lower back hell due to an old sporting injury.
And the seat itself can be a determining factor; if I’m stuck in a crappy uncomfortable seat for two hours, I’m pretty much guaranteed to be in pain the next day, due to the same long-standing sacroiliac damage. On the odd occasion that I get to enjoy a band that demands movement, I’m happier standing up in order to do so, as standing up dancing at one’s seat always feels odd, not to mention positively anti-social for the poor bastards in the row behind.
I have no interest whatsoever any more in being one of twenty thousand people standing in a field.
I stood to see Jason Isbell with the TV excellent @carl and eventually looked to my right to see I was also standing next to Kim Richey
I went to the excellent but tiny Ramsgate Music Hall to see Glen Matlock and stood for a while next to support artist and ex GoGo Kathy Valentine. She’s tiny btw.
Kim isn’t, she’s very tall!
Given the price of most gigs these days, I think the provision of a seat is a minimum requirement. However, I have to agree that increasing age and arthritic knees come into that equation. I know @retropath2 was at Cropredy this year as was I, and I think they get it pretty much spot on – a large area at the front for standing, dancing and so on, and a respected line behind which you can have a chair. We tend to have the best of both worlds – we have chairs for much of the time, but get down the front for anything where we want to see the whites of their eyes.
I’d consider concert going again if it involved a nice comfy bed and a well stocked mini-bar.
Shove over and I’ll bring some crisps.
I’ve *always* preferred to see/hear live music seated.
I’m watching this early Led Zep doc. The audiences mostly are seated, as they were in those days. Rapt and WTF stares. I think I prefer to have that opportunity to get lost in it. Otherwise you are distracted by one thing or another. Of course you want a similar respect from everyone else.
phew, I thought this was a thread about taking a piss before I clicked on it.
It can be; the choice is yours. If it helps, I am happier sitting for a wee, than standing for a dump. Unless it’s an old fashioned continental footprint squatter.
My preference has always been seated. This partly because I like my comfort and partly because I am the same height as Tom Cruise (66 inches of sheer dynamism). However, over the past 5 years, a couple of health issues have increased the desire for a seat. First of all, I developed a back problem which made standing physically difficult. However, this was resolved by the sadistic manipulations of my chiropractor. I then got myself an inguinal hernia. I put up with the mild discomfort for some time before it turned nasty a couple of months ago. This was then resolved by an operation in June (my first-ever time in hospital in my 73rd year). My usual gig-going buddy just purchased tickets for Courtney Marie Andrews in February and assured me that it was a seated gig in St Lukes, Glasgow. However, I have now established that will be a standing gig. Hopefully, I will survive
Go upstairs at St. Luke`s and you can get a seat or a balcony that you can lean on. There is a bar upstairs too.
Sometimes they don’t open the upstairs, I think it depends on crowd size, but this has only happened once for me. Maybe phone ahead to check.
Or just stay in the not half bad bar. Certainly more inviting than many around the corner, especially on Saturday evenings, early, during fitba season.
Thanks androo. I am aware of the balcony and have used that option before when available. However, I do prefer the more ‘intimate’ downstairs option. For standing gigs, I have used the pillars for leaning purposes a few times. I will probably do that for the CMA gig in February if we get in early enough. The bar is of no interest these days. The Guinness days ended a couple of years ago as 50+ years was enough. Also, I am normally driving from Dumfries. We do normally dine in the Winged Ox before gigs which is normally an excellent start to the evening.
I do like the standing, wandering, getting different vantage points, but …
Mrs D had some complimentary tickets for a gig at Shepherds Bush Empire.
“do you want standing or sitting?” the box office asked.
Went for seating, and glad we did – great seats, great view, properly relaxing (and easy to get to the bar).
For comedy gigs or plays, it is always going to be seating, and now I will do that for music (unless it’s one of those small places with 4 seats randomly placed in a corner).
Plus I’m getting on a bit, me knees aren’t what they were, back pain, blah blah blah
The fuckwit factor puts me off seated gigs now. At least when I am standing, I can move away from them.
Fuckwit Factor – TMFTL
Much prefer to stand. Partly because of the above post as it gives the opportunity to move away from dickheads who like to talk incessantly. Also think a standing gig has a more vibrant atmosphere. Even when attending a “seated” gig I try and stand at a side wall.
Thankfully regular Nordic walking and Magnesium and Turmeric tablets have banished any joint pains albeit I suspect they will return sometime. My last gig Robert Finley at Islington’s Assembly was standing and I was fine. Seeing someone like Alabama 3 must be standing as I have a tendency to dance. However for quieter artists and at venues such as The Kitchen Garden cafe or Symphony Hall is perfectly fine
for me it very much depends on the gig. for the many My Life Story gigs i attend i will be in the front row with a group of like minded and long time fans. I was by the barrier again for BabyBird and Echobelly in Oxford last week and was pretty close for Rialto and Sleeper in Bristol but was happy to be sat for the Divine Comedy recently. as I prefer smaller gig venues to stadiums it does rather dictate what is happening but i do like to have somewhere to lean against
I once went to a Roger McGuinn concert at Warwick University and was told at the ticket office that it was sold out… apart from ‘side views at the same price’.
‘Eh? OK. I’ll have a side view’.
This ‘side view’ meant one of about four sofas, all to yourself, very slightly to the right of the stage, ten yards from the MTM-hitmaker.
The only snag was that everyone in the audience could see you in this outstandingly luxurious accommodation, the huge benefit was that it was the most comfortable I have ever been in my life, let alone a gig, and so it took me 0.001 seconds to overcome any initial embarrassment.
Are those sofas still there?
In response to the original post… whatever gets me away from the general public, so usually standing. I don’t go to all-seater venues if I can avoid it, although now I’m really talking about sporting events.
@deramdaze sounds like you had a unique experience. Been to Warwick University many times and never seen the sofas that you describe., I am going this Wednesday and will report back.
My son went to see Men I Trust in Glasgow the other night and it was a standing show but even at aged 21 he said it would have been MUCH better as a sit down gig, tsk young un’s today eh?
I wonder at what age most people prioritise their comfort and begin to get irritable when it’s interfered with? The age at which things aren’t what they used to be and you become a fully fledged Afterworder?
Plenty of grey hair and bald heads at Sleeper last night, which was a standing only gig. I doubt I was the oldest there although I was probably older than quite a few. I’d say most were late 40s or early 50s.
It looks like the design of seated venues is wrong! They clearly need far more aisles in order that they can accommodate more row ends! If people are not booking because they can’t get an end of row then perhaps they don’t need as many seats!
Personally I actively avoid seated only venues. If a venue is seated then I hope I can stand at the back. It’s clear that lots of people need a seat but I’m always surprised at the plaudits that the Union Chapel gets, not only are you not allowed to stand at the back, but the seats are basically planks of wood.
It is uncomfortable to the point that I don’t go there any more, even though it’s a lovely place and I miss people I like. Watching through gritted teeth and praying for it to end is no way to see a band.
One of my favourite gig-watching spots in London is upstairs at Union Chapel, in the centre of the row that’s always left empty for access. A great view of the glorious venue and no one immediately in front of you to spoil it.
There is the added bonuses that they don’t allow drinks outside of the bar area, so there are far fewer pillocks making constant triangular journeys between the bar, toilets and main venue. We do always take cushions though.
I provide projection in the Union Chapel a fair bit and as the projection platform hangs from the balcony underside, just behind the sound desk, we have to allow for about 3” of movement on the image because as the balcony fills up, the projector moves a bit. We can adjust it without it being obvious if necessary but we always ask if the balcony is in use when lining up. I agree the pews are pretty uncomfortable. So much so that the plastic “school chairs” are a better bet.
The should be ‘in the centre of the row behind the one that’s always left empty for access of course.
Depends. As I wrote on the other thread standing for 2 or 3 hours in fairly cramped conditions gets harder when you are in your 60s. Seats sometimes bring other problems if some want to stand up and others do not. I like front row on the balcony at the end, normally great view/sound and pretty comfortable.
When I attend Solid Sound festival every 2 years (but skipping next year probably because of Trump), I take a fold up chair and use it in the middle of the 3 days. Mostly standing for 6 or 7 hours 3 days in a row is a bit much for me these days.
If have to sit, much prefer an aisle seat myself. Problem is gigs nowadays tend to sell out so fast, you either take what TM offers you or you risk missing out.
Even assuming you do get offered a choice, a lot of venues have a policy of only selling end-of-row seats in pairs or groups
If I’m going to be there for 3 hours or so (a multi-artist thing f’rinstance) I’d prefer to be sitting and so will my back and a few other bits of me.
Standing’s OK at a long show if there’s somewhere to go and sit between acts/sets. Where there is no seating and no readmittance if you go outside then that is a problem for me.
I am no longer a young person.
The Jazz Café in Camden Town is a great venue except it has extremely limited seating on the ground floor (about 20 backsides maximum) and they absolutely WILL NOT allow you to sit on the floor. It’s probably a safety thing in case you get trodden on and get hurt, or someone trips over you and gets hurt.
The seated area upstairs costs more and you are expected to buy food and drink. Also the view of the stage looks like it can be sub-optimal at some tables and I’m told the sound is far better downstairs.
Standing for rock-style gigs gives a better experience, usually. Seated jazz and acoustic gigs OTOH mean you’re less likely to be in the company of constant talkers, though it’s often impossible to do anything about it if you’re unfortunately stuck with them when in a booked seat.
At a standing gig, if you find yourself next to some idiots, you can always move away from them. Incidentally, I’ve found that if I move around occasionally at standing gigs, my back etc. trouble me a bit less.
Seated for me. And interesting that so many here share my preference for an end row seat.
My absolute favourite concert experience – in terms of the logistics – was Belle and Sebastian’s Boaty Weekender. Disabled seating next to the stage(s), waiter service for drinks, Med sun, and an air-conditioned cabin with own toilet just 5 minutes away. It’s spoiled concert-going for me, to an extent.
I should say that the music was also excellent.