Author:Nick Duerden
An idea so simple that it’s surprising that it’s not been done before. What’s it like when you’re no longer hugely/fairly/semi famous? It’s presented as a pretty straight collection of articles/interviews with an impressive range of artists from proper superstars (Robbe Williams), indie types (Alex Kapranos, Lloyd Cole, Wayne Hussey, Shaun Ryder), oldies (Joan Armatrading, Leo Sayer), as well as teeny-pop types and plenty more.
There’s no real attempt made to find patterns or draw overarching conclusions. Some stories tell of an abrupt fall of a cliff, others a long, slow managed decline and while some have a redemptive arc, not all of them do by any means. But the author has a nice easy to read style and it’s pretty funny in places. Sad in others.
One thing is pretty clear – it’s not easy. And it can’t have been easy either to get many of these interviews and while this is thankfully far from a tabloid-style take-down or hatchet job, there’s plenty of evidence, both explicit and implicit, that a fair few of these post fame and success lives have been a struggle. There’s a lot of ‘I’m in a better place than I’ve ever been’ or ‘It’s just about the music not the fame and fortune’ which don’t always sound terribly convincing. There’s also been, unsurprisingly, a lot of drinking and drugging. Plus multiple partners and numerous children. As well as a few happy endings thankfully.
Length of Read:Medium
Might appeal to people who enjoyed…
The music press.
One thing you’ve learned
It certainly helps to have made a shit load of cash before the fame and success come to an end.
paulwright says
I met Ray Dorey who played guitar and sang in Edison Lighthouse in his later job as Sales Director of a Mechanical Pump Seal company in Slough. (In an office block I swear was in the credits of The Office).
Had a neat line in John Lennon stories. And high quality mechanical seals for pumps.
(I don’t think he made a shit load of cash. Still had long hair though).
Moose the Mooche says
….it’s a shit business.
davebigpicture says
I’ve been meaning to order this, cheers.
Jaygee says
@Guiri
Any good anecdotes to whet our collective whistles?
Guiri says
ip33 has already provided the best wtf fact to be found in the book, but it’s also nice that Dennis Seaton seems to be genuinely happy with his position as a ladder guru, after a few struggles along the way.
The bloke from S Club 7 provides the most ‘you poor bloke’ moment’. Peter Perrett the most ‘how are you still alive?’ one. Bob Geldof the best quote: ‘That’s it. It’s over? I was 30’.
Good reviews/articles from the Graun here:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/apr/16/pop-stars-spotlight-bob-geldof-robbie-williams-lisa-maffia
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/may/10/exit-stage-left-by-nick-duerden-what-happens-once-the-hits-have-dried-up
ip33 says
Reading this at the moment. In turns heartbreaking and hilarious with some deluded people but also quite a few with their head screwed on.
Favourite fact, Dennis Seaton lead singer of Musical Youth is Chairman of the Ladder Association who help and advise builders working at heights.
Moose the Mooche says
This generation rules the nation with authoritative and practical health and safety information.
davebigpicture says
Pass the hard hat from the left hand side.
Jaygee says
@ip33
Toppermost of the poppermost
Paul Wad says
I used to work with the bassist of Thousand Yard Stare in a recruitment company. Good bloke. His claim to fame was appearing on the front cover of Melody Maker (or the NME) wearing nothing but a sock on his old chap. The rest of the band were supposed to be doing it too, but they chickened out.
retropath2 says
Old pop stars doing other things? I thought they stayed available and gigging somewhere eternally.
Colin H says
The idea has been done before in various forms, Guiri. Off the cuff, I can recall ‘Where Do You Go To My Lovely?’ by Fred Dellar (an early ‘where are they now?’ book on 60s pop people) and two or three volumes of ‘Unknown Legends of Rock’n’Roll’ by Richard Unterberger (more focused on cult figures from the 60s / whatever-happened-to).
I think now that we’re coming to the end (I believe) of the era of popular music as an even semi-viable career choice, for a number of reasons, we will probably see more of these sorts of books.
Nick L says
Having just read the first chapter of the Duerden book and about 20 years or so ago the Unternberger book, I’d say the latter is a little more in depth. So far anyway. And early subject Peter Perrett isn’t exactly an artist you’d describe as completely fallen into obscurity, as his newer albums get a fair amount of press.
Moose the Mooche says
Fallen into obscurity?
David Kendal says
I wonder if making a living out of popular music was a passing phase, and now it’s becoming more like most forms of art or entertainment which are mainly supported by amateurs who have other jobs.
I don’t work in the arts at all but I’ve been surprised how many people I’ve worked with or met socially who maintain their artistic life alongside the day job. For example, a couple of writers of novels and biographies published by mainstream publishers and available in Waterstones, and people in regularly gigging classical ensembles or jazz groups. A couple of people make a living teaching art or music, but the rest seem to do a day job totally unconnected with their artistic leanings. For some reason, IT and accountancy seem to attract the musicians.
Out of curiosity @Colin_H what do you think is causing this change – streaming, or the after-effects of Covid. Or just music not being so central to a youth culture?
Colin H says
I’ve thought of starting a thread on the matter recently, David. It would be an interesting way to gather evidence / anecdotes. I’m more than casually familiar with the worlds of various British & Irish jazz and folk artists, and a few in punk and rock/blues, and it is definitely the case that 2 years of Covid brought effects that have yet to be surmounted. In short, the ‘folk scene’ or British/Irish touring scene for troubadours and others in the roots music space has not remotely recovered.
I know one established artist who had three dates on a 3-week Irish tour cancelled mid-tour because no, or almost no, tickets had been sold. Other venues had lower than previous turnout (the venues report this for other recent bookings, not just my pal). I’m hearing of others on the English scene considering their positions professionally.
Streaming has killed recorded-music income, two years of Covid / lockdown has got audiences out of the habit of going out, so live music income is being severely compromised. I honestly don’t know why anyone in music at the cottage industry level would continue as full-timers. The living isn’t there.
Guiri says
I imagine Brexit has thrown a further spanner in the works. In Spain it used to be possible to see at least some mid/lower league bands somewhere but having had a look recently as I think about venturing out again it seems to be only arena or stadium size acts or festivals which I’ve no desire to go to. Great shame for all involved.
@Colin H re your comment on it having been done before, I stand corrected. I’d picked that up in a review or podcast somewhere (maybe WIYE in fact). I’ve actually got that Unknown Legends on the Kindle from years back so should give it a read.
davebigpicture says
I’ve previously mentioned the topsy turvey driving and carnet rules which have made European touring more difficult and expensive post Brexit. I do see a future for smaller acts travelling in a Sprinter sized tour bus and carrying their own instruments as this is much simpler, although a carnet is still needed. Doing a tour of small venues that have a house pa and lights would be relatively simple compared to an arena tour with multiple 40’ trucks.
I also think that there is a market for one gig per tour being live streamed at a good standard, doesn’t have to be broadcast quality. It can be a decent revenue generator if the artist has a committed, geographically spread fan base.
fentonsteve says
See also the hobby musican professions of Engineering/Physics, and anything else involving Maths. You’d think we’d be able to do all those funny prog-/math-rock time signatures, but I can’t seem to count above four.
Mike_H says
I read a report somewhere a few months back that said males aged 50-60 have been particularly reluctant to get out to performances of all kinds since the UK lockdown was eased. That cannot be good for live music.
The effect of streaming on music is a strange one, because it’s definitely hit artists’ incomes from recorded music. However, it has also tended to broaden the taste of listeners. Everything from all genres and times being available everywhere, instantly, has had an effect. The generation and genre barriers have been breached.
Colin H says
…and nobody’s paying anything / anything much for the pleasure.
Gatz says
How odd. I’m bang in the middle, and gigs are what I missed most. I found that so long as I had my other half I could manage perfectly well without further company, but needed shows both to enjoy and to have in the diary to look forward to.
Jaygee says
I was really nervous before going to my fist live show in two-and-a-bit years, but that one gig was all it took for me to conquer my fear and get back into the habit.
While none of us wants to die any sooner than we have to, living life denying yourself things you love doing because of fear is no life at all.
Other – equally valid – opinions are available.
Mike_H says
Just as much of a factor as fear of Covid is the effect on people’s finances of the pandemic, Brexit, spiralling energy prices etc.
While some are back to spending like before, quite a lot are tightening their belts. Entertainment outside of the home, in general, has been a casualty of that.
fentonsteve says
I had my fourth vax jab yesterday (I’m immunosuppressed). I love live music, but not enough to catch Covid, and prefer the sweaty pub gig to seated arenas. So I’m going to ease myself in with a couple of free open-air festivals this summer, and see how I cope.
Arthur Cowslip says
Sounds like an excellent book, thanks for the recommendation. I find this kind of stuff fascinating. Funny how as a teenager you dream of fame and fortune. Now I can’t think of anything worse! Can you imagine being on top of the pile and then having to deal with the comedown afterwards?
Jaygee says
I think when most people of my (our?) age were young, you only got to be famous for doing something worthwhile.
Around the time satellite TV came in and hundreds of channels needed to be filled, fame was diluted by homeopathic levels and became celebrity.
Now, all you need to become a celeb is to make an eejit of yourself on some reality show.
Better still, you can be the child of a well-known parent and establish a celeb bloodline – Calum Best, Brooklyn Beckham and Bradley Walsh’s son, Bratley are all excellent examples.
Given the shellacking you’re likely to take from the red tops, that’s a fate I wouldn’t wish on anyone
Gary says
And yet the publicity hungry Beckhams seem to want just that for their kids. Harper, aged 10 (TEN!), was in the papers yesterday as her dad posted a vid of them walking to school for his gazillion followers on Instachat or something. (I also noticed Tom Daley parading his son to the press, but in total contrast making sure his face was hidden from the camera.)
As for the Johnny Depp vs Coleen Rooney* trial, don’t even get me started. How can people with so much money have such tawdry lives and little dignity?
*I might be confused
Jaygee says
The Vardy/Rooney thing is unintentionally hilarious.
“If I’m being honest…”
“I certainly hope you are being honest, Ms Vardy, you’ve sworn an
oath and are in the witness box of the High Court”
Arthur Cowslip says
Do you think there genuinely has been a shift, from wanting to be famous for doing something to wanting to be famous for fame’s sake? I’m never sure whether this is a real shift or just me being grumpy and old(er).
Moose the Mooche says
There was a joke somewhere on telly recently about “Amanda Holden dropping a TikTok” and Mrs Moose said that it’s probably been forgotten that AH was once an actor before becoming a “celebrity”.
Unless all that crying over cutsie doggy-woggies and the like on BGT is a load of old pretendy, heaven forfend.
Paul Wad says
I’m absolutely fascinated by the likes of Amanda Holden, Rebekah Vardy, Mylene Klass and all those ‘celebrities’ who will do absolutely anything to be famous. They are so repulsive, I wouldn’t want to spend a second in their company, but their dedication to their cause is bizarrely admirable. I used to like Michael Winner in a similar way. A grotesque man that I wouldn’t want to be within a mile of, but so fascinating to watch someone so pompous and horrible.
I would just love to do a social experiment with the lot of these professional celebs. Round up about 50 of them for a new reality show, Celeb Prison or something, where you have them doing the most degrading, selfish, backstabbing things to each other, but just don’t film it. I’d lock James Corden in with them as the star governor, allowing him free reign to come up with whatever zany idea he likes to put the celebs through their paces. Every day, after you’ve left them all locked up for a couple of months first, to piped in crowd noise from the ‘excitement outside’, a losing celeb come out to face their fans and watch their ‘best bits’ to find nothing but a taxi there to take them to the station, leaving the rest inside, elbowing each other out of the way to win the public’s affection, when nobody in the country has a clue about it, other than being relieved that ITV has been almost watchable for two months.
Guiri says
That’s a big part of it isn’t it? Even in an anonymous, normal life there¡s plenty of ups and downs and more than enough regrets to look back on from middle age. So god knows what it’s like when in your youth you were successful, well known and – often temporarily (or illusorily) – rich. So there’s the schadenfreude of reading about when it all goes very wrong and the genuine pleasure to be gained when they’ve found a way through it. There’s plenty of both to be found in this book.
FWIW I *really* wanted to be Lawrence from Felt (I know…) when I was 15/16. Looking back from 49 while I’d have liked to have been able to make that music, I’m glad I didn’t live his post-Felt life…
Moose the Mooche says
Who wouldn’t have loved to have been in the mighty Denim…. the Wurzels of the 90s?
hubert rawlinson says
I do hope there’s a mention of Barry Wom’s hairdressing salons.
John Halsey had a pub in Cambridge, since retired.
Jaygee says
There was but the publishers insisted that it was cut
Colin H says
Is that guy from East 17 with the backwards hat in it?
Moose the Mooche says
Hey kids: say no to Spudulike.
fentonsteve says
I vaguely knew the ’17 crew (one of them is my pal’s wife’s cousin). The scary thing is, Spuddy Thicko Brian wasn’t even the bluntest knife in the block.
Colin H says
Is that even possible?
fentonsteve says
I’d be surpised if any of them had an IQ in double figures.
Moose the Mooche says
Brian was only distressed after eating that potato because he thought he’d eaten his twin brother by mistake.
Jim Cain says
I love how Maggot from Goldie Lookin’ Chain is now a financial advisor.
https://www.unitedcommercial.co.uk/meet-the-team/
Moose the Mooche says
Your mother’s got a portfolio
Colin H says
Blodwyn Pig’s Mick Abrahams did that during his 1980s ‘wilderness years’, in Milton Keynes, in a suit.
Jaygee says
I think the look he was going for was probably Maynard Keynes
TrypF says
In the late 90s I ditched my good-for-nothing band and went back to the bass for a less stressful way of treading the boards. This involved auditions with a number of (mostly hopeless) acts. One of the more interesting ones came to nothing, but involved a chat with a chap who had written hundreds of songs, all neatly presented in a huge folder. I would have had a play with him and his drummer, but the latter couldn’t make it as he had a shift working in the box office of a West End theatre. It was then mentioned that his drumming background involved playing for early nineties next big things 5:30 (or fivethirty if you must). At the time, in my mid twenties it seemed quite a comedown for him – nowadays I reckon he was earning much better, and regular, money that way.
Any young rocker who has glassy-eyed visions of luxury as they set their musical course should be pointed at L7 documentary Pretend We’re Dead. At their height (headlining festivals, touring Japan, top 20 album) they earned about $500 a month each. On the bill of an enormous gig headlined by Kiss, they wondered why their major label people were being so distant – it turns out they had been dropped on the same day. By the end, they couldn’t afford to ship the stock of CDs back from their bankrupt east coast distributor and they went into landfill. It is, indeed, a shit business.
fentonsteve says
I bought a 5:30 t-shirt when I saw them supporting someone or other at the Cambridge Junction. It said “About fucking time” on it. I didn’t, however, buy any 5:30 records.
Jaygee says
Cue tired old joke about their missing their moment, being in the right place at the wrong time, etc
Moose the Mooche says
I bought their album. It was crap.
Jaygee says
Pip Witcher, one of the main guys from the Sorrows (legendary Cov band of the 1960s which had Don “Indian Reservation” Fardon as vocalist) used to run a car respraying business out of a garage in a residential car park at the bottom of the road where I grew up.
Arthur Cowslip says
I wonder how many of these pop stars genuinely dream they could still hit the big time again, given the right chance? Or maybe the realisation kicks in at some point. 10, 20 years after their last hit?
Hawkfall says
Do you remember the Where Are They Now? page in Q? Every time, at least 60% of the ex-band members were living in London working on “dance-oriented material that would be released on their own label”. It was rare to find someone who’d totally left the business. Maybe things are different now.
Moose the Mooche says
And of course the dreaded “home-studio” = AKA a load of equipment quietly gathering dust in an unfrequented basement or outbuilding
Beezer says
Not Snagglepuss? Even?
davebigpicture says
Heavens to murgatroyd!