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Lords Test – new thread

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I wonder whether Starc will come in for Hazelwood? He is a much better bat and can provide the occasional really nasty ball. I expect Boland to be much better next outing and he did well as Nightwatchman.
England has trouble. Stokes must be pretty buggered physically to only take those 2 overs. Moeen – how can he bowl ? Doesnt seem like the type to “ push through” . And would take more than a week for a blister rubbed raw to heal.
Can Bairstow open? You cant afford those misses that seem to always happen with him.

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Comments

  1. If Bairstow no longer keeps then I don’t see him opening, maybe push Pope up the order and then Bairstow cam come in at 5 or 6? Or replace Pope, putting Root or Brook at 3

    I think they will rotate fast bowlers throughout the series.

  2. I refer the Honourable Member for The Backend of Nowhere to my statement of this morning.

    “After the euphoria, let’s face it – England have problems
    Stokes can hardly bowl and is scoring less & less runs as captain
    Anderson seems to have lost (temporarily?) his cutting edge
    Ali unlikely to play, no other ‘proper’ spinner available (unless Root fancies bowling 40+ overs)
    Bairstow as wicket-keeper is always going to drop a few catches and miss a few stumpings
    Surely Australia’s Big Three will not be got out so collectively cheaply again?
    Can’t help but think England missed a big opportunity at Edgbaston……”

        • Head makes 5. Currently number 5 in the world. They are a very strong side and we took them to the wire. Can’t wait for lords where I would…

          Crawley
          Bairstow
          Pope
          Root
          Brook
          Stokes
          Foakes
          Woakes (check his Lords record)
          Wood
          Robinson
          Broad

          • Since the beginning of 2021, he has taken 40 wickets at 21.70 in Test matches in England. At Lord’s in particular, he is a master. His career stats at the ground read 27 wickets in five Tests at an average of 11.33, with three five-fors and a ten-for

          • If England are that close, why 3 changes? From McCullum’s post game comments I expect Bairstow to keep wicket. So I think maybe one change if Moheen Ali is unfit. Then bring in Woakes or Wood. Root would have to do a lot of bowling.

          • Are you sure its not just poet in you that picked that side. Has any team had so many ‘o’ players? Australia have none in their top 7 and only if both Boland and H/wood play do they accumulate. By contrast, England have 14! Apart from the obvious rhyming, your side also have a rural thematic core with Wood , Foakes ( Old English for folks, of course), Root ( classic ambiguity), Brook as well as the allusions to broad village life and its small streets and neighbours. Great team.

  3. I know scheduling has to be tight due to other commitments. Way back when England and Australia would tour for 6 months.
    Having a mere 3 days before the 3rd and 5th seems an incredibly tight schedule, esp if they play full 5 day Tests each time.

  4. FWIIW:

    – I think Stokes only made one – albeit major – error and that was after the inspired decision to give JR 66 another (wicket-taking) over, he gave him another (“No! No!! No!!!”) came the shout from my garden as I was putting down wood chippings.

    – replace Moeen and his dubious finger with Wood…

    – Bairstow will surely keep wicket at Lords. I think that position would only potentially change if (say) Duckett throws away his wicket again. Then, perhaps replace him with Foakes (w/k). If not opening with Bairstow – I wouldn’t – go with Brook.

    BTW, fantastic entertainment, eh!!

  5. As a neutral observer, the non-selection of Foakes hurt and will hurt England in so many ways. Duckett is unlucky but it seems that the selection team must choose a specialist there. The need for an specialist opener is oddly antiquated for this team and is vastly outweighed by the need for a specialist w-keeper . If England bat first then Foakes could open – is he worse than Crawley who has likely scored his runs for the next three games prior to a career saving innings in the final match? If they field first then Pope opens. England just need to follow through on ‘Bazball’ theory. Or just have Pope open either way. Or Stokes opens. Not so hard, boys. Pick a wicket-keeper.

  6. Much has been made of Stokes but we know he’s going to be bonkers – the really interesting guy in all this is Cummins, my man-of-the-match at Edgbaston. When the 8th wicket went down, the odds were at their most extreme over all five days (75%-25% England win), but he saw his team through.

    So, does Cummins stick or twist?
    I reckon he should stick. In other words – do not compete in the captaincy stakes, you can’t hope to win! Stokes is doing enough captaincy for the whole world, let alone England. Tinkering every other ball, everything a mind-game, so let him get on with it. Don’t do anything. Nothing. Zilch. Zero. Read a book.

    Three successful calls out of four of that coin toss, bat for a long time (650+ if possible), and the Aussies at the very least should retain the Ashes. Fascinating stuff.

  7. I can see Bairstow keeping the gloves for no other reason than recalling Foakes would be akin to McCullum and Stokes admitting that they got it wrong for the first test.

    I hope I’m wrong as Bairstow was pretty woeful behind the stumps and his confidence in that respect must be pretty low which in turn could affect his batting at some point. Not sure who I’d drop though. One of the openers I suppose.

    • Mind you most of the comments seem to be “shut the fuck up – we lost”. And Australia will be happy to win all tests with England “really winning”. I was debating with mates whether the Aussies were employing rope a dope or were rabbits in the spotlight. To me it looked like the latter. We wanted to score but couldnt.
      I certainly think our bowlers will be fired up for a pitch that aint a road.

  11. Wood in for Anderson but otherwise the same team unless Moeen is unfit…bit alarmed that Will Jacks is apparently next in line if not as he never struck me as being anything other than average and has only bowled around 20 overs in the County Championship. Unless they go without a spin option other than Root – spinners have not had much success at Lords historically – and go for Woakes who has a good record with bat and ball at Lords. No chance of Foakes coming back I feel.

  15. Slightly off topic, I’ve been fortunate enough to be at Trent Bridge for days two and three of the women’s Ashes test. Great cricket played by both sides, the highlight being Tammy Beaumont’s double ton. Good crowds too, especially yesterday when there must have been 7-8,000 in.

    A note for the men – the women get through the overs at a decent rate. 85 on a rain affected first day and 93 on the second (with two overs lost for the change of innings).

    Plus a swarm of bees set up camp just beyond the outfield on Friday (safely removed at the close of play).

    Should be a cracking multi-format series.

  17. Yeahbut, I read today that an independent report has judged English cricket to be racist, sexist and elitist. “English cricket suffers from widespread and deep-rooted racism, sexism, elitism and class-based discrimination at all levels of the game” it found. Which makes everyone enjoying it, especially those commenting on this thread, racist, sexist and elitist for turning a blind eye to its racism, sexism and elitism, yeah? So there, yah boo sucks to you all!

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/jun/27/english-cricket-is-racist-sexist-and-elitist-says-landmark-report

  19. Day 1 England win the toss and bowl. Tongue gets a debut 5fer as Australia are bowled out just before tea for 150. England close on 90 for 8.

    Day 2 England all out for 100. Australia bat out the rest of the day closing on 200 for 3 a lead of 250.

    Day 3 Smith completes his double hundred as Australia declare with 10 overs of the day remaining on 480 a lead of 530. England close on 80 for no wicket.

    Day 4 England need 450 to win which they knock off in 60 overs including run a ball hundreds for Duckett, Brook and Bairstow. Root finishes 80 not out and Stokes scores winning runs off Cummins with a switch hit 6

      • If Australia bat, and I do believe England may be dumb enough to put them in…

        Cummins (pointing to the six players on his left): “You… 750 runs”.
        Cummins (pointing to the four players on his right): “If I see anyone of you even look at a cricket ball before Friday, 2.30 p.m., let alone touch one, you’re on the first flight home”.

        It would be interesting to see what would happen if the “win, or lose trying” philosophy of the England team was thwarted at source and, by necessity, had to be “draw, or lose trying”. Doesn’t sound quite as sexy, does it.

  20. Interesting stuff here on player injury /injury avoidance management. Like so much of sport, injury management critical to success. Also- in this article Stokes is reported as saying Wood wouldn’t cope with the load. This after getting the non Test hardened Moeen Ali to bowl endless overs even after the blister got bad. Given he can’t tape the finger he’d have to be doubtful for the next game too.

    https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/bazball-can-t-fully-compensate-for-england-s-pace-woes-20230627-p5djz7.html?btis

  21. England bowling attack looks a bit one paced and samey – shame they didn’t play Wood who would have been a real point of difference. Also surprised they didn’t play Woakes as the fourth seamer with his excellent record at Lords with both ball and bat.

  27. Australia fielded for just 144.2 overs at Edgbaston.

    By stumps tonight England would have fielded, rain permitting, for at least 290 overs so far this series. Double. Add another 80+ overs tomorrow…
    Hope they’re fit.

  29. Peeek a booooooo !
    Just got up to go for a peee and 2 wickets, if I had a stronger bladder we’d be better off.
    Seems like they’re gonna go the tonk.

    400 has a nice ring to it.

    Anyway. Time to log off again.

  30. As King of Predictions I foretell:
    Australia 650 -8 declared
    England 190 all out
    Following on, England 498-2 declared (thunderstorms over Lords)
    Australia 36 all out (Stokes 9 for 2)
    One all as we go to wherever the next test is .

  32. Yep – bowling looked very pedestrian. Much as it pains me, I agree with Michael Vaughan about yesterday. England looked casual and sloppy. Pope’s injury is a worry too. All a bit depressing from an England point of view.

  33. I’d look to bat until 5 o’clock. Frankly, if still in, I’d be tempted to still be batting on Friday, though I suspect the Aussies would declare. They shouldn’t.

    The biggest threat to the Aussies this series is if they trade 20/20 with England and the big question is… do they want to win the Ashes? or do they want to win the Ashes ‘and’ entertain?
    Stokes et al will be praying it’s the latter.

  35. Looks like this series might be decided by who bowls least badly. And who suffers fewest injuries. After England lost two spinners, looks like the much more valuable Lyon is off now.

    • The bowl persons are bouncing the ball to the bat persons and inviting them to hit it. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes a bat person has to do the long walk through the crowd of red-faced gents in lurid ties. That’s about it, really.

  37. Evening all, my early morning pee report.
    So Lyon injured in his 100th continuous test – what a calamity ! Here take a quick, any of em but don’t take Gary !
    Thought we would really get into England with the ball but either it’s a batter’s wicket or our blokes undelivered too.
    Just saw the last little bit wih Stokes proddng away clearly just intent on keeping his wicket til stumps. Sensible cricket but I didnt think that was in the Bazball repertoire.

  39. And here was me crowing about Aussie player management and keeping them on the park. Doh !!!!!
    Lyon out levels things big time. His understudy Todd Murphy is regarded as a Lyon clone but this is The Ashes.

  40. Someone up there likes Stokes.

    Two wins of the toss, Nathan Lyon’s injury during a match where his potential influence on the 4th Innings was looming larger by the minute, and, by my reckoning, England enjoying the more favourable conditions in six of the seven days so far. Sounds like they might get lucky with the weather again today.

  41. There’s still life in this match as, crazy shots notwithstanding, England can obviously score very quickly.
    Australia would be well advised not to give them even a sniff of victory.

  45. I think dumb cricket may be catching… Australia do want to win the Ashes, yeah?

    I know in football that the Premier League, F.A. Cup and League Cup are less than essential compared to 4th place, indeed downright inessential, but this is cricket.

    Australia do want to win? I mean, that is the aim, isn’t it?

  46. 300+ lead for Aussie now. Really enjoying this footage. Fascinating interview with Ricky Ponting during lunch yesterday, with some of it showing him demonstrating his favourite shots, facing a bowling machine. He shared the story of his team spending hours and hours trying to tempt Tendulkar into a cover drive after hearing that he wasn’t going to do them. Tendulkar still got over 200 though.

  47. Well folks, its stumps for me until my bladder has me checking in during the final session.
    I must concede England has bowled and defended well with a glaring exception – j Bairstow.
    According to expectations, you will come out swinging and we will come out bouncing but these tests haven’t gone according to the script. And aint that a good thing.

    • It’s either ‘staggering’ or you ‘have no issue with it.’ Can’t be both.

      Interesting question of how to treat an injured batsman who comes out. It’s not like when the opposing pub team put the Captain’s 11-year-old in. What are they supposed to do, bowl underarm?

      • The 98 % bouncers was staggering.I have no issue with liberal use of bouncers but 98% is a whole other level.
        Re Lyon, yes I know the “ if you go on the field you takes what is coming “ line. It is very much of the era of Australian teams that were so much disliked by many.
        I think there is a middle ground between bouncer and underarm. Perhaps an unplayable in-swinger as per the ball to the also injured Pope.
        You’d assume Lyon said , the calf is fucked, I’m gone for the series so maybe Starc can add a few more if I am out there. And if it buggers it more, which is likely to have happened then so be it.
        Just another example of the oddness of this series.

        • I’m sure Lyon would have been mortified if he faced anything less than what was being dished out elsewhere. The England players went at him, then clapped him off the pitch and that’s how to handle that situation

          • @Chiz yeah sure. I’d expect both Lyon and Cummins to say “we wouldn’t have it any other way”. It was still pretty unpleasant and Brit papers would have torn shreds off us if it had been the other way round . Twas ever thus.

            • Actually watched that Lyon session again. Bowling against him wasn’t too bad. Maybe coz your bowlers were knackered. You’d think a few yorkers might have helped your cause though.

              • He’s a number 10 batter on one leg. Why not just try to hit the stumps? For all the England talk of letting players play their own way it all looks a bit rigid and one-dimensional to me. With both bat and ball.

      • I think the rule is only 2 balls above shoulder height in an over, and the umpires’ judgement was that many of the short balls did not get that high. But the whole issue could be sorted out quickly with stronger umpiring. I see Australia are deploying similar tactics this morning – unsurprising I guess. I heartily hope this doesn’t become “a thing”.

  51. Australia’s bowlers have been too good for England here. And the 10mph difference in pace is exposing the England batting. Yes, two good ones to Root and Brook, but Brook looked reluctant to get forward and Root looked shaken by the one before that hit him.

    Much as it pains me to agree with an Aussie about cricket (!!), I agree with Junior about England’s use of the short ball too – 98% bouncers is just a bit unedifying I’m afraid. If roles were reversed there would be all sorts of howling. A chastening day/week for the Stokes/McCullum project (I don’t like Bazball as a term).

  52. Well, it was Australia who demonstrated that the short stuff was a good tactic on this pitch in the last England innings, so it’s hardly surprising that England tried it. It turned out to be effective. What were they supposed to do? Give Smith and Head easy runs?

    Lyon shouldn’t have batted, and it was a difficult watch. If it was at a tight finish and they were trying to win the game it is one thing, but they hardly needed the few runs the final two were going to add. He has probably worsened his injury and it was a potentially career ending thing to do.

    Australia are clearly the better side, simple as. They have better batters and the bowlers are that bit faster, so however England play they are probably going to lose unless the Aussies seriously underperform.

    • Agreed. If England tried conventional cricket against this Aussie side it would absolutely be 5-0. All Out aggressive batting and the chaos theory gives them a sniff. Only Root and maybe a fit Stokes would get near the Aussie 11. Attempting to draw tomorrow would 100% fail. Attempting to win gives us some chance. Another 5 days of astonishing cricket. More please.

      • If they’d tried conventional cricket at Edgbaston they’d probably be 1-0 up.
        However, England deserve to be trailing 2-0 after two matches and, for cricket’s sake, I hope they are.

    • Rules in sport are like Tax Laws. They are there to be interpreted in your favour when the need arises. If I were Starc I would have claimed it. If I were the batsman I would have held my ground. That’s why we have umpires. If I were the umpire I would have said “not out”. Game continues.

      • I am amazed it was not paid. I know that shocks you all.
        Clearly takes it cleanly in his hands , takes another step, as he sprinted to get there, then as he falls over he uses his hands to break his fall. The ball was securely in his hand by then. The contact with the ground did nothing to aid the catch , the ball hadn’t forced its way through his fingers.
        Poor decision.

  54. BBC website offers this – If England are to win, they will set a new Test record for most runs scored after the fall of a fourth wicket to win in the fourth innings of a Test.

    There are so many statistics – and so many variations on every aspect of them, that every test match can be historic, You just need to find it,

  60. I guess, in the light of the catch incident last night, the “stumping” is fair enough.

    It feels like there is some real animosity developing between the two teams though – the Labuschagne/Broad conversation looked a little unpleasant.

    I hope the general tenor of the series – short bowling included – can raise itself after today. Hard is fine, but the tone feels nasty.

  70. Bairstow was an idiot, and possibly threw away the match, and the Ashes, right there. We were 43 short in the end, and I suspect he could quite easily have scored 30 odd more and we would have won it. Stupid.

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