The problem : I have a fairly large CD collection (approx 9000, not counting many CDRs). I have ripped around half of those to my Roon server but there is only room for about another 1000 CDs. That leaves around 4000 CDs that I cannot easily access (my CD collection is stored in the garage for space reasons). I am also pretty much locked into a Sonos multi-room system for audio (the music library on the Sonos is also full). I cannot just invest in another audio streamer (eg BlueSound) as they don’t talk to Sonos (Brennan does – sort of – but I don’t want to go that route).
The solution? Ripping CDs is a very time-consuming occupation and is even less appealing if you have no easy way of playing them. So, I am thinking of finding each of the non-ripped CDs on a streaming service and adding it to the library of that streaming service. Any CDs I can’t find I will have to rip in the conventional way and hopefully find room for them on my Roon server. I am thinking of using Amazon HD Music because a) it’s lossless and b) I don’t use it for anything else, eg playlists.
You could say, of course, that I will both own the physical CD and stream it but when I complete the project I would be quite happy (I think) to get rid of my CDs.
Anyone else faced this particular conundrum and/or have alternative solutions?
Owning or streaming? What’s the verdict?
by 43 Comments
Can your Roon server read from an external drive or NAS? Or even a USB-connected HDD?
I made the mistake, years ago, of buying a NAS which I could not add to. I ended up (last year) buying a different NAS with 5 drive bays, I have only installed 2 (higher-capacity) drives so far. I’m sure I will fill it up eventually.
Yes, my music library is contained on an attached USB connected external hard drive. However, I have a Roon Nucleus which is their device for people who don’t want (or can’t in my case) build a NUC from scratch. It is the Nucleus which is limited to approx 100k tracks.
Not quite what you’re looking for but this Subsonic software looks interesting and allows you to stream from wherever you keep your music to Sonos without running out of Sonos library space, 65k tracks I believe. Anyone used it?
http://www.subsonic.org/pages/index.jsp
Thanks. I’ll have a look at it.
My tastes have changed. I mainly listen to jazz and blues. Some folk etc etc
My point is how many of those 9000 CDs will you listen to? Keep the physical but make sure it is stuff you still like. .
That was my thought. I have a tiny fraction of that amount, and struggle to play most of those.
Yes, logic suggests that I will only listen to a fraction of my collection but logic and music collecting don’t always go together.
I presume when you state that you only have room for another 1000 CDs on your Roon Server that this is a limitation of your current HDD storage space.
I also use Roon and as far as I know there isn’t a limit on the number of tracks. You can specify the location of all your music in Roon and that can be multiple sources – i.e, not just limited to to the storage on the server device itself. As such, you can simply add further storage – an external HDD, a NAS, etc etc and then just add this to Roon as a location.
Having said that, if it’s simply a matter of not wanting to rip another 4000 CDs, then Roon has Qobuz and Tidal streaming built in, which are both lossless audio.
Personally, I prefer having the actual ripped files on my NAS – you never know when stuff can disappear from streaming etc etc.
As mentioned above, I have a Roon Nucleus which has a notional limit of 100k tracks no matter how many you have on your connected external hard drive. In hindsight I guess I should have got a Nucleus + which has a much higher limit and plenty for my needs. Too expensive for me though. I’m sure that if you are tech savvy enough you could build your own NUC server from scratch and scale it accordingly, but I’m not that guy. I do use Tidal and integrate it with my own music library but any albums you add to Tidal contribute to the 100k Nucleus limit.
Is 100k the maximum number of tracks the Roon Nucleus’s firmware/software can read from the database? I don’t see how you’d get around that except by going for another streamer/server.
The 100k limit is advisory but performance will probably start to suffer the closer I get.
I can’t answer definitively, as I use a Mac Mini as my Roon server not a nucleus, but I would hazard a guess that this limit is more a recommendation based on the available of memory rather than a hard and fast rule. i.e as you start to exceed 100k, it starts to put pressure on the available RAM and you may see slow downs.
This would suggest that you should be able to increase the RAM (add a new module ?) of the nucleus to increase this “limit”.
I currently have about 150K tracks on my Roon server – a 2011 MacMini – and it’s definitely slowing down (although I think it’s more an issue with the Mac mini than Roon) and can stall if I am updating the library at the same time as playing. I’m about to update to a new Mac Mini.
Your set up is the same as mine, except that the files are stored on a 2TB SSD mounted in the Satechi dock which lives happily under the Mac Mini, which is an M1. You’ll be absolutely stunned at the difference between your old Mini and the new one. It’s ready to go in seconds. If you get an M2 presumably that’ll be nanoseconds.
Apple Music is the best at keeping your music if, as i had happen, a laptop goes pop. I was then on Amazon. My back ups were, mea culpa, incomplete, apart from the original cds and or cdrs made from dl files. (So most.) Had I been on apple, all would have been replicable, including all the painstaking personal rips. I am now re-ripping the hard copy, which while reminding me of music not heard in years, will probably, like painting the forth road bridge, never be completed…..
Thanks. I’ll have a look at that.
If you rely on streaming your music from the likes of Amazon, Apple, Spotify, Tidal etc. then you are locking yourself into their subscription model. End the subscription and your access to the music ends too. If they cease operations for whatever reason, your access to the music will cease as well.
Worth keeping in mind.
I keep 2 digital copies of everything, personally.
Exactly why I will never get rid of my cd’s.
I have around half the size or a little older. Given my age I am only likely to listen to a fraction but can guarantee if I get rid of something I will be desperate to hear it after it has gone.
Good points. Maybe a good reason to keep my CDs even after I’ve “collected” the albums via a streaming service. At least I would have saved some time ripping.
If one service stops operating, then just switch to another, surely?
Playlists can be ported over without much trouble.
..If you’ve saved them.
Apple only eat the stuff you “streamloaded” onto your device. Anything you have ripped remains yours. Which is why you can’t record the downloads from them, even if they seem yours for the duration, as @mikeh says, of your subscribing.
And they no longer have an arbitrarily low library size either, which was an initial concern.
I seem to recall Apple used to replace the files you uploaded from your own collection with lower resolution ones on their server, so if you ripped and uploaded your music in good resolution and then disposed of the CDs, you ended up with inferior copies. There were numerous complaints and I think they must have stopped doing it.
I prefer CDs too. I use subscription streaming/download as a temporary measure, to sample albums before buying and to make playlists for parties or to decide my “favourites”.
Me too. Just that.
Thirded.
My kids have no. interest in my very excellent historical music taste so it will all go in the tip!
Harsh but fair. Their loss!
You’re best getting rid of them now while you can.
Keep the CDs, of course.
That made the other half laugh!
I no longer have any CDs (except the one I bought at Alice Night’s gig because I’m in love). I’m perfectly happy with streaming, either Qobuz or Spotify, and I’m deliriously happy with no CDs cluttering up the place. I have enough trouble with books.
You the man.
My only proviso to No CDs is that you don’t browse the shelves and think “Ah, yes – haven’t played that in ages”
On the other hand it still marvels me that, for instance, somebody on here says “So and so’s new one is fab” and two seconds later you’ve realised once again Gary has no taste
I’m with you except that, because of space considerations, my CDs are in the garage which is separate from my house. Many times I’ve thought “oh, I must play xxx” then realised that it’s cold or raining and found it on a streaming service.
Do what I did, and move the hi-fi into the garage.
That browsing aspect is interesting… I’ve waded through over 100 years of local newspapers – late 1890s to now – the late 1890s to 1977 were physical copies and you couldn’t help but notice other events. I’m writing about swimming next year precisely because of stories, unconnected to what I was researching, from the 1920s.
The 1978 – 2023 papers are on a microfiche contraption, and on that, research is most definitely on an in-out in-out basis. No browsing as it’s too tiring. Front page, Down Your Way bit, Sports page, out. If there’s an unbelievable story on page 8, I ain’t going to know about it.
If space is the issue I recommend the CD sleeves from t3lshop.co.uk.
I have filled more than one wheel bin with empty CD cases. The space saved is very significant. I now like being able to grab a handful of CDs (which can be about 30) from the shelves, looking through and thinking I’ll listen to this one.
Slightly tangentially: The other night, three scotches in, I thought “Right: THE LAST WALTZ! It’s on Amazon Prime Video! Let’s do this! It’s just right for how I’m feeling!! Woohoo!!”.
It’s no longer on that streaming service. Apple Music doesn’t seem to yank as much as video services, but it’s easy to take for granted that streaming services’ content will always just be there. Also, someone like Morrissey will pull stuff if he’s having a spat with a label; newer re-issues might appear on one service exclusively; if there’s a war we’re fools if we don’t think information is a the new nuclear bombs etc etc etc
On the subject of streaming, this week I discovered a useful, new button on Spotify. At the bottom right corner there is a Microphone icon. Press that and you can see the lyrics.
I’m just listening to June Tabor’s Dream Factory from the playlist from Salwarpe’s Slave to the Song thread.
With some songs the lyrics are even synched.
Great for karaoke! I can sing along and imagine that I am @thecheshirecat or in a pub somewhere listening to his version.
Also handy for listening to songs in other languages if you are language learner.
This service is rather erratic. I’m now listening to Laura Gibson’s gorgeous Louis. No lyrics worthy of the name, but she sings so clearly, I don’t need them.
Other useful services if you scroll down..
FANS ALSO LIKE: If you like Laura, they suggest Basia Bulat, Dawn Landes, Laur Veirs etc
APPEARS ON: Compilation albums
DISCOVERED ON: Sundry playlists often created by amateur enthusiasts. Some of these are wonderful, if you are exploring a new genre.
This week, DuCool, Mrs DuCool and I went to splendid gig by Danish duo Svenborg Kardyb. Their Spotify page took me to this fine list from Matthew Halsall.
@Gary and I have been nattering this week about music from Napoli, which led me to this beauty:
Re: “I discovered a useful, new button on Spotify. At the bottom right corner there is a Microphone icon. Press that and you can see the lyrics.”
That could be pretty useful for some Cocteau Twins songs….
“Just” discovered the lyrics, @kaisfatdad – you do surprise me.
Not sure how much of a purist you are about them, but as someone who enjoys his playlists and also enjoys exploring, the “smart shuffle” feature might be right up your street. You make your playlist of, say, your own selections of sophisticated 1970s soul. Obviously when you hit shuffle you get Ike and Harold Melvin in a different order, but tap shuffle again and now it’s “smart shuffle” and Spotty will chuck its own selections into the mix based on the sort of stuff on your list..
Thanks a lot @Sewer Robot. This sounds like a wonderful tool.
I tried to activate it but failed. I tried to discover more about it and am a little uncertain whether it still functions.
But I will keep trying to discover why it’s not working for me.
Well I’ve bitten the bullet and bought a Bluesound Node (2021 model) for what I grandly call our library (basically it’s the room where I can watch sport and play music that only I like, plus it houses our books). It seems counterintuitive as I have a Sonos multi-room system but the beauty of the Bluesound is that I can connect it to my high end audio kit (Rotel amp, Quad speakers). Sonos speakers are pretty good but not as good as my proper audio setup. The other benefit is that I can plug an external hard drive into the back of the Node and play any music that won’t fit on my Roon Nucleus.
Well done. Stage 2 is to move the hi-fi (and library, if you like) into the garage and lock yourself in. Erm… so I’ve heard…
Protective Custody
Is it for the protection OF your family or for protection FROM your family?
Unfortunately, our garage is in a courtyard along with those of other houses in our development and it would be a bit weird to lock myself in there. Not to mention there is a ton of stuff stored in the garage already. If the garage was attached to the house in a normal way I would give it serious consideration. Gad it works for you – and your family!