Ivor Cutler, taking a break from his Scottish Sitting Room to read Lear’s Dong with the Luminous nose accompanied by a full jazz orchestra. The marvellous Norma Winstone performing a trio of poems by Yeats, Blake and Lewis Carroll set to lush jazz orchestral arrangements.
These are just two of the pleasures on Neil Ardley and the New Jazz Orchestra’s album, A Symphony of Amaranths from 1971. I’d never heard of the late, great Ardley before Colin wrote a review about the re-release of some of his albums earlier in the week. Read his review and give the albums a listen (on either Spotify or YouTube). Sumptuous, melodic and extremely British jazz.
Among the stellar assortment of musicians playing on these albums are Jack Bruce from Cream and Jon Hiseman of Coliseum, two musicians with a foot in the worlds of both jazz and rock. As pop and rock increased enormously in popularity in the 60s many jazzers realised that there was a good living to be made. Shaving off their goatee beards, discarding their berets and leaving behind the smoky midnight world of the jazz club, they jumped on the new bandwagon. When Miles Davis saw the enormous crowds that rock bands were attracting at the Filmore West, he wanted a slice of the cake too.
That got me thinking about the relationship between jazz and other styles of music: a constant, mutually beneficent interplay.
A few examples..
One of the brightest stars of jazz, the ambitious and exciting Kamasi Washington was musical director of Kendrick Lamarr’s To Pimp a butterfly. This was no gimmicky crossover. The two of them grew up in the same part of L.A. and had known each other since schooldays. And rap and hip hop have had a long and fruitful symbiosis. Digable Planets spring to mind.
On their debut album, Eden, Everything but the Girl used jazz musicians. That marvellous song, Each and every one, would be nothing without the horn section of Dick Pearce flugelhorn, Pete King, alto sax and Nigel Nash tenor sax. Tracey Thorn also appears on another favourite track of mine, Venceremos by Working Week, singing alongside Robert Wyatt and Claudia Figueroa and accompanied by some fine jazz horns. Wyatt’s Soft Machine started as a psychedelic pop band and finished up as a jazz combo and on his own albums he has created his own territory which is somewhere between the two.
The list goes on and on. Bowie recorded both with the Pat Metheny Group and more recently the avant-garde jazz composer Maria Schneider. What would Metallica’s albums have sounded like without the mellow clarinet noodlings of Acker Bilk? Radiohead drummer, Clive Deamer, who also plays with Portishead, is from jazz combo Get the Blessing.
When Early Music ensemble, the Hilliard Ensemble worked with Norwegian saxophonist, Jan Garbarek, they not only produced a magnificent album, Officium. To their bemusement they found themselves living a celebrity lifestyle: limousines, fine wines and top notch hotels. Garbarek has also worked with traditional Norwegian singers like Mari Boine and Agnes Buen Garnås. (their album Rosefole is something very special).
Jazz musicians have always gone to popular music to find tunes. Miles Davis: Cindi Lauper’s Time after time. John Coltrane: My favourite things.
Finally I must mention Harold McNair’s exquisite flute and sax playing with Donovan. An exquisite jazz icing on Mr Leitch’s kaftan cake.
Jazz and pop: it’s a marriage made in Harlem! Any favourite examples of this fruitful relationship?
And any thoughts about its nature?
A theory for you to shoot down in flames:
Jazz musicians go to pop and rock for top tunes and decent dosh. Pop, rock, folk artists come to jazz for fine musicianship, Gitanes and hipster haircuts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkPGZFsOMw
Moose the Mooche says
One of the many, many things I love about the Then Play Long blog is how he manages to link nearly every record he reviews with Escalator Over the Hill. Many of the links are not as tenuous as you would expect.
Arthur Cowslip says
Wow. What is Escalator Over The Hill and why have I never heard of it? The Wikipedia page makes it sound either terribly brilliant or brilliantly terrible. Is it worth seeking out? It doesn’t seem to be on Spotify.
Kaisfatdad says
Here you go @Arthur_Cowslip. A YT playlist with the whole thing.
Escalator was an extremely ambitious jazz opera by the very talented pianist and composer Carla Bley which came out as a 3 LP set. A jazz milestone. Not sure how well it has aged but it was certainly a game changer in its day. Definitely worth a listen.
Here are the rehearsal feat John McLaughlin and Jack Bruce.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2011/jan/17/carla-bley-escalator-over-hill
Moose the Mooche says
“terribly brilliant or brilliantly terrible”…. equal parts both. Bonkers.
Kaisfatdad says
Not so far-fetched at all! The number of people who got involved in Escalator was gob-smacking. Even Linda Ronstadt was there.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2011/jan/17/carla-bley-escalator-over-hill
Thanks to DuCool, I have become a big fan of Harold McNair. In fact I already loved the flute playing on Donovan’s live album but didn’t know the flautist’s name
Here he is playing with the great man.
And here is a very entertaining interview with John Cameron about him.
http://www.jazzwax.com/2017/04/john-cameron-on-harold-mcnair.html
Kaisfatdad says
Is this the one you mean, Moose?
http://nobilliards.blogspot.se/2016/12/sting-soul-cages.html
Great quote about Sting:
“McAloon is a genius who has never made a bad record, whereas Sting fatally thinks he’s a genius. He’s a would-be Renaissance man who once upon a time would have been lucky to have been a roadie for Renaissance.”
Ouch!
Moose the Mooche says
His opinions are mercifully not always as predictable.
nickduvet says
Of the jazz greats of the Miles era, Herbie Hancock is probably the one who has straddled the genres most comfortably. Moving from jazz to funk, getting cosmic along the way and nurturing talents like Jaco Pastorius. Working with Joni and then going full-on pop-synth wizard with Rockit (who remembers the video? I once saw a documentary about the guy who made those strange figures).
Moose the Mooche says
Didn’t Godley and Creme direct that one? The robots was a way of getting the video on MTV, who would otherwise have baulked at showing something featuring (horror of horrors) A BLACK MAN.
Say what you like about hip hop, it put an end to crap like that.
Sewer Robot says
Surely you’ve got to give Jacko the lion’s share of the credit for that volte face – going all Marlon Brando “I’ll make them a video they can’t refuse”.
‘Course it was an uphill struggle – at the same time that Yo! MTV Raps was the top rated show on the channel, the people upstairs were ushering it towards the exit..
Moose the Mooche says
True. Prince is in there too, partly because he had the common courtesy to play something resembling rock music.
Bowie had a go at MTV on this score but I don’t know if that decided him to put native Australians in the video to Let’s Dance (or indeed snog a Chinese woman on the beach).
Kaisfatdad says
Herbie is a great example. Let’s have a taste of the maestro along with another fine musician who has managed to move nimbly between different genres and set his own agenda: Pat Metheny.
minibreakfast says
“What would Metallica’s albums have sounded like without the mellow clarinet noodlings of Acker Bilk?”
Sorry, what? Have I stumbled into another dimension or something?
Moose the Mooche says
Perhaps they wouldn’t sound so ruddy cross all the time.
Vulpes Vulpes says
Get off my fucking shore, ass bucket, I’m waiting for a stranger.
minibreakfast says
“Ass bucket”?!!
You’ve clearly never heard a Metallica album in your life 😀
hubert rawlinson says
Bucket! Possibly a reference to the Bilkster’s (as he was never known) ‘My Bucket’s got a Hole in it’ innit.
Kaisfatdad says
This is scandalous! My account must have been hacked. My credibility is at stake. Any metalhead knows that it was Kenny Ball that played with Mr Hetfield and Co, even if James and Acker do bear a certain resemblance to each other.
Then again, I have reason to believe that Mr Bilk dropped one with Megadeth.
Or was it …And you will know us by the trail of scrumpy?
GCU Grey Area says
Kaisfatdad says
Now a jazzer (of sorts) with his roots deep in reggae: the marvelous Ernest Ranglin ( who played on My Boy Lollipop!)
Mike_H says
Ernest Ranglin, like Monty Alexander, Don Drummond, Vin Gordon and a lot of the old instrumentalists from Jamaica, was a jazzer who saw that if he wanted to earn a living playing music there in the ’60s, he’d have to play Ska and reggae. He did the musical arrangement for “My Boy Lollipop” as well as playing on it. Island Records released a couple of Ranglin jazz albums in the ’60s. “Wranglin'” (1964) and “Reflections” (1965).
He came to London in ’64 and was resident guitarist at Ronnie Scott’s jazz club that year, backing visiting artists and also playing (and recording) with Ronnie Scott’s bands. He was voted top guitarist in the 1964 Melody Maker readers’ Jazz Poll.
He returned to Jamaica in ’65 and resumed session work, playing on The Wailers “It Hurts To Be Alone” for Coxsone and was musical director on The Melodians “Rivers Of Babylon”. He also worked with Lee Perry and Clancy Eccles later in the decade as the new Reggae sound was developed.
Kaisfatdad says
Ranglin’s “comeback” album Below the Bassline is superb.
Tiggerlion says
With regard to Miles Davis and Fillmore West. It was Clive Davis, Colombia Records president, who suggested he play in front of a rock crowd to broaden the sales of Bitches Brew. I say ‘rock’ but the headlining act was The Grateful Dead. The ploy worked. Lots of drugged up white hippy types loved it. Bitches Brew was Miles’s best seller. Indeed, it was the best selling jazz album for a long time.
Kaisfatdad says
Thanks for putting me straight on that Tigger. As you say, it worked rather well and probably led to many other jazz artists trying to appeal to the rock crowd.
Alias says
Drummers Horacio Hernandez and Robby Ameen recruited Ruben Blades for this latin jazz cover of Sympathy For The Devil.
retropath2 says
That’s Ruben “Fear the Living Dead’ Blades to you, erstwhile cohort of Willie Colon, 2 body parts for the price of one.
Kaisfatdad says
Amigos, Senor Alias and Senor Retro, you have certainly brought an interesting new dimension in here.
Tito Puente describes himself as a latin jazz artist and it was Santanas version of Titos Oye Como Va which launched his career. But you can certainly dance to Sr Puentes music, which makes me wonder where the dividing line is between Latin music and Latin Jazz.
While we think about that, let us listen to some Tito.
Take Five
And some classic bossa nova from Elis Regina and Tom Jobim
Kaisfatdad says
One could do a whole thread on Danny Thompson. His biography on Wiki is astonishing reading. Did you know he played on the Thunderbirds theme?
Here from th 90s is a rather wonderful project he was involved in. Songhai was DT, Toumani Diabate and two members of modern flamenco group, Ketama. They made two albums together.
fentonsteve says
Damn you, KFD – Get the Blessing have 6 albums out, that’s (another) 60 quid you’ve just cost me.
I love this place.
Kaisfatdad says
I am expensive company, Steve! Just don’t go to the pub with me!
I was wondering if that versatile sideman/maestro Mr Diabate had ever played jazz and discovered that the guys from Ketama and Toumani, now with jazz flamenco bassist Javier Colina, have recently revisited the Songhai project. They’ve even played the Barbican this year.
For Spanish speakers…
http://cultura.elpais.com/cultura/2016/07/14/actualidad/1468521307_050618.html
And, well I never! Toumani has done a jazz album with a trombonist called Roswell Rudd! I had no idea.
https://www.allaboutjazz.com/malicool-roswell-rudd-sunnyside-records-review-by-john-kelman.php
It’s on Spotty but here is a taste.
Kaisfatdad says
Stan Getz has got to the classic example of a jazz musician playing on a “pop” record.
In 1962, he and Charlie Byrd had recorded a very successful album of Bossa Nova covers: Jazz Samba. He then recorded a seond album with Jobim and Gilberto, two of the big names of bossa. They needed a singer for one track and Joao’s wife Astrud was called in. A megahit was born.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJkxFhFRFDA
Getz even appeared on the BBC!
Kaisfatdad says
Gosh! Who knew that Sun Ra had done a whole album of Disney covers?
It’s called Second star to the right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEh5xCw255I
Kaisfatdad says
And now for something completely different and extremely Teutonic. A jazz metal version of Brubeck’s Take Five by Panzerballett from Munich.
Only for advanced level headbangers who can deal with complicated time signatures.
Kaisfatdad says
I can believe that we’ve come so far….
,,and not mentioned Steely Dan. They are not a jazz band but, as this article points out, their music just oozes jazzaciousness and goatee goodness.
https://www.allaboutjazz.com/that-grand-dan-sound-why-everyone-knows-steely-dan-when-they-hear-them-by-eric-pettine.php
Here’s another piece about them which contains this quote:
“Describing a Santa Rosa, Calif., stop with his Boz Scaggs/Michael McDonald side project, The Dukes of September, he (Fagen) wrote, “The crowd looked so geriatric I was tempted to start calling out bingo numbers.”
http://www.post-gazette.com/ae/music/2014/08/07/Crunching-on-Steely-Dan-s-Pretzel-Logic/stories/201408070131
Tiggerlion says
They covered East St. Louis Toodle-Oo and used Horace Silver’s Song For My Father for Rikki Don’t Lose That Number on Pretzel Logic.
Alias says
I can’t help thinking that Mick Jones must have been fairly familiar with Horace Silver’s Cape Verdean Blues when he wrote Should I Stay Or Should I Go
Kaisfatdad says
Thanks for reminding us of the Dan’s jazz covers, Tigs. If they had chosen, I suspect they could easilyhave been a jazz combo.
Interesting. Horace Silver’s father was from Cape Verde. And so after Songs for my Father he produced this hommage to his dad’s birthplace in 1965.
http://www.allmusic.com/album/the-cape-verdean-blues-mw0000204335
Yeare before anyone except transatlantic sailors knew where Cap Verde was. I only found out after discovering Cesaria Evora.
And would you believe it, the family name was originally Silva but was Anglicised in the US.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/jun/19/horace-silver
Another titbit. Horace wrote a stage musical about Rachmaninoff meeting Duke Ellington in heaven and introducing him to the jazz greats!
https://whoisthemonk.wordpress.com/2010/12/19/horace-silver-%E2%80%93-rockin%E2%80%99-with-rachmaninoff-1991/
Recorded in 1991 and finally released in 2003.
Kaisfatdad says
DuCool was telling me that there were several people working with jazz orchestras at the same time as Ardley. Mike Westbrook, Howard Riley and Graham Collier.
That led me to Collier’s obituary. An interesting chap who did a lot to promote jazz: the Royal Academy’s first director of jazz.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/culture-obituaries/music-obituaries/8772330/Graham-Collier.html
One of his triumphs was Loose Tubes, a collective who greatly enlivened the UK jazz scene. One of them was composer Django Bates, who has recently done a Jazz Big band celebration of Sergeant Pepper. Topical, eh?
Rec Room says
Looking past Steely Dan… it must be said that Brazil was the epicenter of the convergence of jazz with pop.
Milton Nascimento did his best work in the 70’s with the likes of Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter, George Duke, Quincy Jones (is Quincy a jazzer? wiki says so) , and errr… intern! intern!!!
-Edit this will you… you got a 20 min window. Add at least 3 more confirmable jazzers to Milton’s career.
Rec Room says
Herbie and Wayne are on this album, but they mighta been out by the soda machine during this song. Maybe not, I dunno.
Kaisfatdad says
The epicentre indeed. Often bossa nova gets put in the jazz section in record shops. But really it is mainstream pop, at least in Brazil. Sophisticated and complex perhaps but definitely pop.
Morrison says
Recently I saw Brad Mehldau – a bit austere on record but superb live. Over the years he’s covered all sorts of pop/rock stuff – Radiohead, Nick Drake, Beach Boys, Nirvana – and on his excellent “Blues and Ballads” album from last year, this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpnnrnx7q9E
Likewise, the great Lynne Arriale often covers pop – including a lovely version of “Blackbird”
Ella does Cream
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKTg6VhkafU
The current world’s finest female jazz vocalist Rene Marie does the Temps. Wonderful.
I could go on. I often do.
The flipside – Sting using Branford Marsalis, Kenny Kirkland and Omar Hakim on his early stuff.
Moose the Mooche says
“A bit austere on record”? @ducool has just sat up and said “What? Where?” 😉
Kaisfatdad says
That cracked me up! Moose, you know my pal the Duke very well.
Kaisfatdad says
Brilliant selection! Keep them coming, @Morrison. I have never even heard of Rene Marie.
Kaisfatdad says
Cassandra Wilson is another singer who takes a pop or rock song and makes it her own.
Like this Neil Young classic: Harvest Moon.
Moose the Mooche says
My life will be sadly incomplete until I hear a Jan Garbarek set based around Fulham Fallout. I’m starting to lose hope.
I wouldn’t put it past Andy Sheppard, mind.
hubert rawlinson says
Shirley Collins’ No Roses has a version of Claudy Banks which includes a composed duo performance by Alan Cave on bassoon and British free jazz saxophonist Lol Coxhill.
Kaisfatdad says
Thanks Hubert. Not often Lol Coxhill ventured into folk music.
Here it is, complete with a photo of cuddly kitten.
Kaisfatdad says
The tendency of jazz musicians to jump on the pop bandwagon was also evident in Sweden.
Doris here, a 70s star, was backed by some well-known names in Swedish jazz.
Alias says
No one is more rock ‘n’ roll than Iggy Pop. Anyone who listens to his BBC 6Music Iggy Confidential programme will know that his taste in music is broad and very good.
His is not a voice you would associate with jazz but he guests on 3 tracks on Jamie Saft, Steve Swallow and Bobby Previte’s Loneliness Road album reminding me of Leonard Cohen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY0huZRQbuU
Kaisfatdad says
Thanks Alias. That was a pleasant surprise. I wonder how many people would recognise Iggy’s voice in such an unexpected setting.
There must be other rock singers who have guested on jazz albums. I will rack my brains.
My first experience of a jazz big band was thanks to Keef Hartley.
It was at Watford Town Hall and they were stupendous.
Kaisfatdad says
A slight deviation now. The wonderful Pata Negra from Spain. Brought up with flamenco they ventured into blues and jazz.
The marvelous Paco de Lucia made a similar journey. Here he is with Colin’s pal Johnny M.
Kaisfatdad says
Paco de Lucia again, this time with Chick Corea. What a clip! Two musicians taking such great joy in each other’s virtuosity.
And while we are on Chick, here he is with a Norwegian jazz orchestra from Trondheim.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb14qVTs3vA
The pop kids have all gone home now, so I can post more jazzy stuff here!
Kaisfatdad says
I don’t think there are many artists who like the Avalon Hitmaker have re-booted their own hits as jazz standards.
The Bryan Ferry Orchestra – Do the Strand
But there is the wonderful Post-Modern Jukebox who reboot the songs of today vintage style. Jazz bands have always had an ear open for a good tune.
Royals
Hotline Bling
Gangsta’s Paradise – Al Capone style
Kaisfatdad says
@Rec_Room refers to Brazil as the epicentre of the Jazz-Pop interface
Metheny, Corea, Getz. How right you are!
This article covers the relationship rather well.
http://weeklywire.com/ww/07-05-99/austin_music_feature1.html
And let’s not forget Seu Jorge sings Bowie. Quite wonderful!
Kaisfatdad says
The late, great Neapolitan bluesman, Pino Daniele, got some invaluable help from Wayne Shorter on his beautiful album Bell’Ambriana.
I wouldn’t describe Pino as pop star. But he was extremely popular. Italy’s answer to John Martyn?
One for you when you get back from the beach @Gary!
Gary says
Beautiful.
Kaisfatdad says
I suspect not many of you have heard of PIno Daniele. But many of you have heard, if not heard of, Chris White who adds some fine sax to this song.
Chris has played with Dire Straits, Paul McCartney, France Gall, Robbie Williams and many more.
There are many “jazz” musicians like him who play for a whole variety of different international artists both in the studio and on tour. Dick Parry (no, I didn’t know his name until today) who plays the sax on the Floyd’s Money and several other tracks.
Kaisfatdad says
I was listening to the music on this thread on Spotify, and the Iggy Pop track reminded me of this gem by John Martyn. Another artist who should have sung more jazz.
Which made me think of Tim Buckley, another singer existing in a category which is a personal mixture of folk, jazz and pop. Here he is on the Monkees TV show.
Of course, there might be those who prefer Pat Boone’s version of Song to the Siren …….
Kaisfatdad says
Three favourites. Jazz singers, folk or pop singers?
Gregory Porter
Terry Callier (with Beth Orton)
Gil Scott-Heron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8
hubert rawlinson says
This name came to me in the night, also ties in with Colin H’s pre Beatles music.
Tony Crombie jazz drummer.
In August 1956, Crombie set up a rock and roll band he called The Rockets,[5] which at one point included future Shadows bassist Jet Harris. The group was modelled after Bill Haley’s Comets and Freddie Bell & the Bellboys. Tony Crombie and his Rockets released several singles for Decca Records and Columbia Records, including “Teach You To Rock”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Crombie.
Kaisfatdad says
Crombie’s jazz career is very impressive. He played with many of the greats. Miles recorded one of his tunes!
Rock was just a very brief experiment for him.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Crombie