…is surely provided by this interview with Randy Newman.
I mention the Beach Boys, and how I love them (‘yeah, they’re great’), but that Brian Wilson’s arrangements sound meek next to Nelson Riddle’s. ‘Absolutely. Those guys were really sophisticated. Gordon Jenkins, Billy May. The Beach Boys was baby stuff.’ The one pop writer he gives unqualified praise to is Carole King. He recalls going up into the hills above LA with his teenage friend Lenny Waronker — the son of a music executive, who grew up to be one himself — so they could listen to a hip Chicago radio station. ‘He’d say, “Oh, that’s a Carole King song.” And it was better, her stuff. I could hear it. And a lot of the reason it was better is that she knew the old song repertory.’
🍻
That snide little “baby stuff” comment does Newman no credit at all. Wilson wasn’t of Nelson Riddle’s generation or background and he worked in a very different field. He is a self-taught pop music composer, producer, arranger, and player/singer. I’m sure Nelson Riddle wouldn’t have been as stupidly dismissive of him as Newman (a privileged rich kid) is.
Good point. I totally agree.
Damn right.
Yep.
The Beach Boys – Yeah they’re great.” Sounds like praise to me, not dismissal. But he’s being asked about the skills of Wilson as an arranger, and agreeing with the interviewer. And I’d agree, Brian Wilson was very talented, melodically and harmonically, but a lot of his orchestral arrangements, like those on Pet Sounds, do sound a bit hokey.
Err, I also agree HP.
This was rather good. You have to cherry pick all the rags, left and right.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/07/ringos-no-joke-he-was-a-genius-and-the-beatles-were-lucky-to-have-him/
Up there /\ Worth a read.
Pompous twat. I have never understood, nor will i ever understand, the inexplicable hold that Randy Newman holds over large sections of the AW. Pompous twat.
Yes, I said it twice.
He’s one of these very clever types, dontchaknow….
Let’s make it thrice. We can add it to the list: see also Half Man Half Biscuit, Danny Baker ect ect chiz chiz
Steely Dan. Like the most cleverest smartest band in like the whole big world. Far beyond the likes of me.
I’m sending a drone to carpet bomb your abode with battle-hardened tardigrades.
Bring it on, Burtybabe! Do your damnedest!
Wasp squadron in support.
Be afraid, Rob. Be very afraid 😉
Pah! I shall brook No Quarter, Nigedude!
And at their worst, which let’s face is quite a lot of it?
Their worst? I can’t quite find a suitably appropriate adjective.
Stick to Status Quo.
Be True To Your School, Tahir.
Randy Newman pompous?
Your dictionary and mine must hold different definitions of the word.
What? The guy is one of the best songwriters ever. OK at least the best Jewish-American songwriter (composer, arranger, you name it) ever. Just because he’s so understated and uses so much irony is no reason to dismiss him. That’s what makes him a genius. He’s the opposite of the verbose bores like Van M. He is the anti-Van man. Give thanks and praises.
This is where Afterword Bizarro World confuses me. He’s not one of the big greats. Most people have never heard of him. And yet he often gets talked about on here like he’s John Lennon (or Brian Wilson). He’s a decent songwriter with a bit of an up-himself clever clever attitude: it’s like elevating Ben Folds to the pantheon.
Hear him! Hear him!
(… and he hasn’t changed his boxer shorts since the Carter administration)
Way better than both of those.
Lennon/Wilson far far better. Randy’s got talent, sure, but not in the same league. Nope.
Pffff 😄🙄
Van The Man is no verbose bore. Far from it. He might be an arse of person, but he’s one heck of a great songwriter and performer. There’s a reason he’s so revered. Anyway, no comparison between the two. Totally different in their styles/approach.
Pretentious pseudo-literary lyrics that go on and on about nothing. Good voice admittedly.
Ain’t half good pretentious pseudo-literary (you forgot ‘mystical’) lyrics, eh? Dylan’s a huge admirer. He suffers from the same affliction.
Tell you one thing, you couldn’t sit on Glastonbury Tor and watch the summer dawn sun rise over the levels, listening to Randy Newman on your Ipod.
I could.
Sorry I don’t do mystical either. Dylan I will address in another thread.
Stand by your beds.
😉
I don’t read many interviews and this thread illustrates why. I’m not interested in Randy Newman’s opinions (or his copy as this article is a set-up with the ultimate aim of selling a newspaper, an outlandish, ill-thought comment can be exploded to an attention-grabbing headline). I’m interested in his music.
Randy Newman is a fantastic songwriter. With a few deft strokes of his piano and a simple couplet of words, he can capture the essence of an entire life. He is especially good when he talks to God or he gets inside the head of a lonely or bereaved person. His father/son songs are especially poignant and beautiful. I like his circus songs too.
The ones labelled as ‘clever’ are his ironic ones, the ones where he spouts bigotry, racism, misogyny and hatred but is making a political point (small ‘p’) about the way some people are. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy those songs too, it’s just that I don’t regard them as clever as his others. However, these are the ones he is best known for because they are shocking, attention-grabbers. He amounts to much more.
He also cannot help being born into a rich family and having a good education. He knows he is lucky.
I’ve met a few of my heroes and regretted it. I’m looking at you Siouxsie and Elvis. Now, I just enjoy the music, except when the noise gets so loud I can’t block it out, such as with Gary Glitter for example.
Love and Peace x
Oh yes, the “irony”. Always such a good thing in songwriting – something to be appreciated like a fine wine, and especially effective in spreading niche messages (bigotry/slavery/war is bad) to people who would otherwise remain in ignorance (IRONY ALERT). As to “deft strokes of his piano”, he’s pretty hamfisted when he leans on the keys. And he sings like someone is hitting him repeatedly in the schnozz with a bean bag.
What is your basis for saying he is ham fisted on the piano HP ?
I’ve seen him and he seemed quite nimble fingered. I understand him to be a good exponent of stride piano of which Fats Waller is a well known exponent.
Perhaps @Mousey can add to this.
This is fun.
I don’t need a basis for claiming he plays the piano like he’s building ham sandwiches. Nor for saying he has a clinical body odour problem and is cruel to dogs.
*moves HP’s contribution to shit stirring , junk mail folder*
OK so now we know where to file your comments.
OK @Tahir-W I was referring to HP dissing Newman’s piano playing , it seems, for a bit of sport.
Are you referring to my contributions generally or this particular comment?
Have a care people, lest another of DougieJ’s threads turns into a shitstorm (when he presumably thought he was on reasonably safe ground). We can agree that Randy Newman is quite good, can’t we? And the Beach Boys likewise? Well then.
Seriously – shitstorm ? I don’t think that’s in danger of happening. All I see is good natured and vibrant talk with a good dose of humour, as well. What this place does best. It’s all too easy to read offence where there is none. Guilty of that myself on occasion.
Peace & Love!
Frankly, Mike, the last thing anyone needs here is the Voice of Reasonableness. Where’s the fun in a balanced viewpoint? If we all chimed in with the see-both-sides-apples-and-oranges then it would be a dull old place indeed.
Randy Newman is the Steve Bannon of pop n’ rock.
His not yours.
Steve Bannon of pop.
*cackles*
Brian Wilson never got over his first wank.
And what kind of dick lies in bed with his wife to be photographed in silly pyjamas for ‘world peace’?
See? SEE!
This is where the Afterblog falls down, especially if you’re on a phone.
I’m not getting a yurt vibe here, Tahir.
Junior, if you study the nesting of the comments carefully you’ll see that Tahir was responding to HP. Unless he’s all fingers n thumbs n that.
I’m not responding to anyone. I live in a dizzy world of my own uninformed opinions. Which are subject to change without notice.
I have long been a fan of Mr Newman’s work, but as I said in my first comment his snide dig at Brian Wilson does him no favours. As to the rest – as a wise man once said “I thought this was a silly old music blog” so I reserve the right to be flippant when I want to be. Discussions comparing pop stars get unnecessarily po-faced. I mean, really – this is the internet – nobody gives much of a shit what you think about anything, especially about the relative merits of pop stars.
Randy Newman has an eyebrow mite problem.
Actually Mini I can never work out how the whole replying works. Tahir’s comment was below mine ,how am I to discern who the response was directed at?
While I’m here, I agree with Tahir that there are plenty of trite songs in the BB catalogue. I agree with HP that RN’s voice is somewhat whiney, in fact RN is probably his biggest critic in that regard.
Whilst some of his political/satirical stuff seems a bit obvious he is one of the few people doing it and probably at the expense of more commercial success.
Re piano playing he was ham fisted while BW was scoffing the hams.
It was below yours but not “nested”. Of course once we get this far the Reply button disappears, and that’s when the real fun starts 🙂
Mini, I looked above and still can’t work out the principle. I think your second sentence is akin to Monty Python’s “this is where my theory falls to the ground”
He’s made a great deal of money soundtracking Toy Story.
Who are you talking to, tig?
I prefer the old days with the spindly writing over there ->
https://web.archive.org/web/20131113091218/https://theafterword.co.uk/content/appalling-travel-companions
Anyone who’ll listen.
Randy Newman would be incapable of writing anything as beautiful and heartfelt as The Beach Boys at their best.
hmmmm
That’s his best moment. Agreed.
I like Vine Street, too. He’s written some great songs. For a fat tub of vinegar-soused lard.
https://youtu.be/9NVftS7VM7M
sans strings
https://youtu.be/7zUjv05kL2Y
finally, recent Randy with intro
He never performs Kathleen (Catholicism Made Easier) live, but I contend that meets your challenge as well.
Surely not?
East coast girls are hip
I really dig those styles they wear
Patent nonsense:
Randy Newman is as entitled to an opinion as anybody else is, I suppose.
Comparing Brian Wilson or Carole King to Nelson Riddle or Gordon Jenkins is a bit like comparing spring onions to strawberries. Both nice to eat (in my opinion) but very different in flavour. A preference for one over another is still only a preference, no matter what reasons you may cite.
If Mr Newman goes on at length to trash Mr Wilson, then that is not nice of him at all. If it’s just remarks in passing or a brief answer to a question posed, it’s no big deal.
Randy has a new album out and Brian has been touring recently, so they are both currently newsworthy. Pitting them against each other potentially sells a few extra copies of The Spectator. It’s a thing papers and magazines do. Even the “quality” ones.
Hmmm…let me see if I get the rules: we’re allowed to pay Brian Wilson a compliment by hating on Randy Newman, but he isn’t allowed to pay Carole King a compliment by mildly dissing Brian Wilson, correct? OK, got it.
Carole King is the second greatest Jewish American songwriter (singer, composer, arranger) ever. Neither RN nor CK would have produced some of the sentimental dreck that Brian and the BBs have sometimes (quite often) produced.
What on earth is wrong with sentimental dreck?
Nothing at all. It’s great stuff. It’s mawkish shite that doesn’t work for me.
I’m prone to welling up to Buddy, for example. Danny Williams’ ‘Moon River’ hits me in the heart, every time.
‘Raining In My Heart’: ‘It doesn’t get any better than that’ – Robert Wyatt.
Sadly – very very very sadly – Rob W’s cover version is piano only.
Elsewhere, the packing-case percussion on Not Fade Away absolutely ROOLZ.
Oh, Danny Williams, Rob.
As someone who doesn’t own a single Beach Boys album, but plenty of RN, a couple of CK (and plenty of albums by other artists singing her songs), I’m certainly not going to argue against that. Even if I somewhat fail to understand what them being Jewish American have to do with anything.
I found a way to qualify what I started, that’s all. But it is remarkable how many great Jewish-American songwriters there are. If you pay attention to what I said you’ll notice that I am, by implication, placing both of them above, Dylan, Reed, Simon and Cohen.
But I am not rating them above everyone. The greatest to me is Chuck Berry.
Re being Jewish this anecdote reproduced in Wikipedia is interesting
Newman has said that religion and any sense of religious identity were completely absent in his childhood. To illustrate this, he has often recounted in interviews an antisemitic incident that occurred when he was young: he was invited by a classmate to be her date to a cotillion at her Los Angeles country club. He accepted the invitation but was subsequently disinvited by the girl’s father, who told Newman that his daughter should never have invited Newman because Jews were not allowed at the country club. Newman thanked the girl’s father, hung up the phone, and then went to ask his own father what a “Jew” was.
A Jew is someone who has a Jewish mother. It’s got nothing to do with believing in god.
And Randy found out what a Jew is. Just listen to Good Old Boys.
Nice story though, although I don’t a damn believe it.
you are in a feisty mood aren’t you 😉
Maybe you could advise me on the hierarchies around here. I’m getting a. creepy feeling.
*ahem*
Leonard Cohen was Canadian.
Canada was in N. America last time I checked.
OK, next time I meet a Canadian I’ll insist on calling him/her American – they love that, apparently 😉
I’ve never intentionally listened to Randy Newman. In my mind he’s basically an American Richard Stilgoe.
well listen to some of the clips above. Only partially typical of his music as he does all those soundtracks, cheesy songs and smart arse stuff too.
But these are lovely sad songs.
Ha! I thought that too without knowing I thought it.
Just looked this Stilgoe character up. The YouTube clips I posted above might counter the immediate “Short People” association.
Ooh! Fun game..
Who’s the American Cyril Fletcher? Har Mar Superstar perhaps?
“Well, Madge Walmart of Milwaukee sent us this picture of a rutabaga that looks like a wang”
Tom Waits = Jake Thackray
*starts 38 Degrees petition to force Tom Waits to record Brother Gorilla*
How odd. The other day the phrase ‘ Robert Peston sings Jacques Brel’ popped into my head, which isn’t a million miles away from that.
I got that once with Joe Pasqaule reads ‘100 Days Of Sodom’ for Book At Bedtime.
*adopts facial expression worn by someone being fisted by Freddie Krueger*
EEEEEEEEEEEN THE…..
….
….
PORRRRT
ofAmsterdamthere’sa SAILOR!! whosings Ofthedreamsthathebringsfromthewide
……
……
OOOOOOOOPEN….
sea
….etc.
Up.
Ha.
*wipes tea off laptop screen with damp cloth*
What kind of tea was it? Liver and baked beans?
Ribs. You owe me a replacement.
Okay
This is great. Can we now have that 1967 TV interview where Pete Townshend said the Beatles were lousy?
It’s amazing how many great songwriters are art-school fuckups in stripey trousers etc
In 1967 they WERE lousy.
*sigh*
Alright then.
Their psychedelic period was indeed lousy. World culturally changing lousy.
Unfortunately yes. We’re still trying to undo all that.
Doing a good job there.
I have no ‘we’ – but if I did, it’s not yours.
1966, and he was talking about their live set up. Pete dug the Beatles.
Funny that he could hear them playing live when they couldn’t hear themselves… or each other. Perhaps he could hear for miles.
Hollywood Bowl remastered is a corker. They fucking rocked. It’s just such a shame that the audience and themselves barely heard it. Hamburg instinct to the fore.
He was talking about listening to them in stereo, so you could hear the voices in one speaker and the backing tracks in the other. He said the backing was lousy.
I saw a black and white clip in the 90s (what tv show repeat I can’t recall) where I’m pretty sure he was talking about their live set up. I may be wrong, of course.
The clip turns up in The Kids Are Alright – a brilliant docco from (I think) 1978.
This reminds me of the story of Otis Redding listening to Revolver in stereo and claiming to hear somebody in the vocal channel say “Paul is queer”. Would love to know which track that was, but Mr R is sadly not on hand to clarify.
Ray Davies made a jealous prick of himself re. Revolver:
http://ultimateclassicrock.com/ray-davies-reviews-revolver/
To this day, many Kinks fans are a weird obsessive embittered bunch.
Revolver is hugely overrated, like Pet Sounds. The rot had already started to set in with parts of Rubber Soul. But by Revolver it is clear the glory days were over, and the way open to such crap as you-know-what.
Sorry man, but…. if you are serious, and not living under a bridge waiting for goats, I seriously question your ability to appreciate music, irrespective of personal taste. I can do that. I can do it with Steely Dan, seriously. I get the riffs and the talent, so tongue (cross thread) very much in cheek re my take on them. Your comment is just sheer bollocks, deliberate, or otherwise. No offence meant.
Oh none taken at all. But you need to have some of your prejudices questioned too.
Why?
Were you kicked out of dentistry collage by a hippy?
It’s good for you in the long run. Trust me.
A hippy dentist? I’d run mile rather than get any of that in my mouth.
Dentistry collage – the gatefold sleeve of Uncle Meat.
*waves at Rob, blowing kisses*
I was listening to Dark Matter yesterday for the first time on my iPod and having a nice walk in the park. The final track ‘Wandering Boy’ came on and completely caught me unawares. I had to run back to the office hoping against hope nobody would see me. I was left in a very emotional state for the rest of the day. That’s song writing that is.
I wouldn’t trust you with a 12 string sunbeam, nor you me.
UP!!
Somewhat surprised to see my post storming up the, er, charts. On this occasion at least I can honestly say I wasn’t intending to provoke a heated debate, I just thought it was an interesting interview. Personally I admire both gentlemen hugely (RN and BW) but have got much more pure pleasure out of listening to The Beach Boys than just about anyone in the pantheon of popular tunesmithery. Anyway, glad to know it proved a stimulating diversion for many of you!
Yessir!
Not just a stimulating diversion, but a shock revelation from @Rob-C
What’s that then? I’m not as young as I used to be.
😀
It really doesn’t matter how many clips you post illustrating his so-called “genius”, this is all I hear. The American Richard Stilgoe indeed:
That is brilliant.
That’s first class. 😍
Absolutely fantastic
Yep pretty damn funny.
“Take those Midget Bastards down!”
😂😂😂
Disclaimer: I adore Randy Newman’s songs and his performance of them, his obvious control of his own work tells me that he loves me.
Very good. Mind you, I’m definitely in the camp that reckons he’s a brilliant songwriter and am surprised at the opprobrium from some here.
I thought this was good – but that ^^^ makes it look like a Beach Boys song
Well, I like his Toy Story stuff but possibly I’m just missing the irony.