I am considering buying one of these, but in all the reviews I have read it is not clear (to me at least), whether it is possible to rip a CD in FLAC or other lossless format to the player.
Am I correct in this? Would I have to buy, all over again, my favourite music so I can listen to it on the move in high definition audio?
High Definition audio players – a question
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The short answer – I’m about to go into a meeting – is no, you won’t need to buy your music again. It is possible to rip a CD to FLAC files but you need to do that on a computer, then copy the files across to the player.
Your hi-res portable will also play mp3 files. It is possible (but pointless) to convert mp3 files to FLAC (or Apple’s lossless equivalent, ALAC).
More later.
Carl, as others have said below, there are essentially three families of audio file formats playable on a hi-res player.
1. Lossy. Usually MP3 files, varying in bit rate from 64 kilo bits per second (awful) to 320kbps (listenable).
2. Lossless. Usually 16-bit, 44.1kHz sampling rate (i.e. CD quality), usually FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) or ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec). Also streaming from the likes of Amazon, etc.
3. Hi-Res. Always 24-bit, sampling rates vary (anything from 44.1kHz to 192kHz).
There are very few physical (disc) formats which carry hi-res audio; DVD-Audio (long-gone), Blu-Ray (difficult to rip), SACD (almost impossible to rip).
As Mr Squeezer says, most hi-res is delivered as FLAC files, or via streaming services such as Tidal or Qobuz. Of course, your player would need WiFi and the ability to run Apps to access audio streams.
The difference between Lossy and CD-quality Lossless is noticeable, especially through headphones. The difference between CD-quality Lossless and Hi-Res Lossless is less stark – perhaps an extra 10%.
As usual, it comes down to the mastering, not the carrier format.
If you’re previously ripped your CDs to MP3 format, and you now want Lossless, I’m afraid you’ll have to rip them again. There’s no point converting Lossy files to Lossless format, it won’t improve the sound quality at all.
That’s a quick primer, I could wang on about this all day, so ask away.
Blimey! That’s the first time I’ve understood any of that. Nicely done.
Perhaps I should give myself a five-minute limit to every post, lest I wang on too much.
My DAP is a Fiio and it’s Android based so any app that’s available on the Play Store is installable. Once again it don’t half make this kind of malarkey easier. As an aside I’d recommend downloading Wavelet if this is one’s chosen route. It’s a neat little app that makes EQing all sorts of headphones and iems a doddle.
I can confirm Steve’s advice, as this is what I do.
CD ripped to computer in flac and stored. My player has an option for microSD card storage – so I can either connect the player to the laptop and copy the flac file directly to the “mass storage device”; or (my preference) copy the flac file to the microSD card and stick it in the player!
This isn’t applicable unless one is using a streaming service such as Tidal or Qobuz etc. I do and it sure does make life easier for some things including this. I’m currently using Qobuz and it’s a simple matter of selecting the album or tracks I want to download from the Qobuz app that’s installed on my DAP and downloading them onto the SD card I installed in the device. It’s a piece of cake. Everything downloaded in Flac at the files original sampling rate. All done in a matter of seconds.
CD (16 bits) is not Hi-Res audio (typically 24 bits). You would need to rip SACDs (very difficult) or other Hi-Res sources like Blu-Rays to get those extra bits. So as pencilsqueezer says the easiest option is to download Hi-Res tracks from appropriate suppliers, these can be in FLAC
It will play ripped CDs but not in Hi-Res
Ripping CDs was the query in the OP. Hence…
Yes and I am just pointing out that they can be played but there is no sound quality advantage for such files to use a Hi-Res audio player over a regular one that plays ripped FLAC files.
Thanks for that.
I posted as a courtesy in case someone other than Carl might find this supplementary information of use. Dai is correct of course about what the industry considers to be hi-res rather than CD Redbook. Whether there is any advantage in using hi-res files in what is ostensibly a portable device to be used in relatively noisy outside environments is an entirely different kettle of fish.
Yes, exactly. As usual, “it depends”. On device, headphones, environment, etc, etc.
Thanks for your advice, everyone.
It is much appreciated.
@carl Please keep us updated on the outcome. I feel quite invested in this now.
What with this, and threads on both CD player lens cleaners and mono vinyl phono stages in recent days, dullness is in demand.
Hang on a mo’ – none of these subjects are dull!
The one I posted on the ifi Lan Silencer was. It’s important to maintain the balance between dullness and cheap thrills or the sky might fall in or summat.
I enjoyed the fact that you were recommending something that was ifi.
I’m learning a great deal of useful stuff- it’s fantastic! Thanks for all your advice @fentonsteve
It’s easy for us technical types to forget that 96%* of the population have no idea what we’re on about when we indulge in technobabble. Working in silos with other similarly qualified colleagues can make our shorthand conversations impenetrable but the central concepts are often reasonably straightforward.
The standard Engineer assessment of a product or document is to ask our wives** to explain it back to us.
(*) 11% of the UK jobs market requires A-level Physics but only 4% of secondary students go on to study it, and only 1 in 4 of them are girls. From my POV, it drives up demand and wages, but it isn’t sustainable. For the last 20 or so years, I’ve been involved in an annual schools STEM outreach event held at the Cambridge university Physics department. Not much has changed yet.
(**) although, in theory, the above would suggest 25% of our colleagues are female, I’d say closer to 1% actually are. 98% are straight white men, so it is almost certainly “wives”.
Purely out of interest, and bearing in mind what you said upthread about the differences between MP3, lossless and hi-res, where does vinyl fit into the scheme of things? Is its resolution on a par with CD, or does it sit somewhere else on the scale?
Ultimately, on a decent turntable, vinyl can sound better than (and measure better than) CD, or vice-versa. Like most formats, it depends on the mastering more than the physical carrier.
Vinyl’s a funny thing – being an electro-mechanical device with tiny waveforms, and with many more steps in the manufacturing stage, there’s a lot more to (potentially) go wrong.
But with shit mastering, it’s quite easy to make a CD unlistenably loud. It’s almost impossible to do the same with vinyl, because the needle would jump out of the groove. So the format demands more respect from the mastering engineer.
Anybody can make a half-decent CD player for 50 quid, the same is not true for record players. Exhibit A: Crosley.
And that’s ignoring the ritual aspect.
You are losing your dullness credibility – no mention of Shannon’s sampling theorem.
This is my favourite Shannon.
Good job I used Shannon sampling theorem instead of Nyquist……
My favourite Shannon:
When you say 11% of the UK jobs market requires A-Level Physics, is that referring to a career in Engineering ?
I have always felt that Physics is basically applied Mathematics and that for engineering the requirement would be more Mathematics than Physics. I recall when I studied engineering at Uni (albeit a very long time ago), I didn’t really use anything I had learnt in Physics, but really really needed the maths stuff.
It’s a figure from the Royal Society of Physics, or whatever they are called. I have no idea where they got it from.
I’ve always thought of Engineering as Applied Physics. But, yes, lots of Maths behind it.Although, to be honest, little of the Maths I use day to day gets much beyond Ohm’s law.
I’m not an engineer – but isn’t Ohm’s Law, er, physics? Confusion reigns…
Well, yes, but V=IR in Physics or Z=XY in Maths are the same thing to an Engineer.
Yoiks! So we’re actually talking about arithmetic rather than “mathematics”? 🙂
The engineering is knowing when to apply it.
It gets slightly more complex when calculating dissipated power, usually P=I squared R, but not much more. Easily done on a calculator.
I was off when we did adding…
All sorts of formulæ had to be learned to get qualified as an electrician.
Voltage drop per Ampere per Metre for different sizes of conductors, for example.
Nobody does those calculations when working on site.
There are tables you can consult printed in the appendices of the Wiring Regulations* to get the relevant figures but even those almost never get consulted. The standard sizes of cables that are always used for types of circuits give more than enough leeway on voltage drop for practical consideration.
* BS7671 “Requirements For Electrical Installations. IET Wiring Regulations”, commonly known as “The Regs”.
Yep. I have Brian Scaddan’s “Electric Wiring for Domestic Installers”, both 17th and 18th eiditions, on the shelf behind me. I rewired my previous house (17th) and wired up my garage (18th). Because I’m not registered, I had to get a man in to do “test and tails”.
Have I ever mentioned that I am quite dull?
I did complex surface integration as part of my degree course and apparently attained 100% in my final maths paper. In 40 years since I haven’t done another one
I think a lot of engineering degree courses could be summed up as “There’s this theorem, and here’s the equation for it, and just to help you remember it we’re going to work through an example. You might need to be aware it exists, but you’ll never need to solve another one.”
Eigenvalues, anyone? Thought not. But I do know which book to look it up in (or, more likely, which Wikipedia page to look at).
I will do @Leedsboy, but I’m not expecting to make an imminent purchase.
As an aside, I have been helping a young chap get into hifi recently (he is a friend of my son’s, who has also done a lot of carpentry type work for us) – he became fascinated when he heard my set up and couldn’t believe that music could be heard at that quality. It’s funny – we take for granted how this all works, but he had no idea about amplification, how turntables actually work with records, and what the options are. He quickly discounted CDs and wanted to go hi-res streaming (and there was a lot of confusion over this), but when we were shopping for kit he saw a lovely turntable and decided that he would go a bit retro. He bought my old B&W speakers and is now totally engrossed – “I can’t stop listening to music, and my friends can’t believe how good it sounds” he told me last week. For the record , he has gone with Cambridge Azure Amp and streamer and an Argon TT2 turntable.
That Azure amp is a proper little doody – it’s what I use in our living room. Drives my Spendors nicely, and has outputs for a second pair of speakers – so I’ve gone through the wall and put a pair of little monitors in the kitchen as well.
I’m still using my Arcam amp and CD player which I bought in about 1998. Mission speakers. I feel no need to upgrade other than due to the odd occasional attack of ISAS* fever.
* Irrational Stuff Acquisition Syndrome