I was just watching a clip on You Tube of the Joe Bonamassa live at the Hollywood Bowl with orchestra. Whilst I like a lot of Bonamassa stuff and he is undoubtably a superb guitarist, I often find his live performances a little too sterile (i.e. too much like the studio album) and so this at leasts adds a new dimension.
Anyway, whilst watching I was thinking it would be great to see this live, but the economics of touring the world with an orchestra are probably not feasible. However, thinking further – would I be right to assume that with any “… and orchestra” concerts, the actual orchestrations would be worked our for each instrument and they would follow the score without needing to really know the actual song. As such, does that mean that any concert with orchestra could in theory just turn up in any city, employ the local symphony orchestra for a couple of nights and bob’s your uncle…. ?
And here’s the said YouTube clip…..
Feel free to add any other “… with orchestra” examples.
I saw Eddi Reader sing the songs of Robert Burns with the Royal National Scottish Orchestra at Warwick Arts Centre about 20 years ago and it was one of the best gigs I’ve ever seen. Here’s a lockdown performance with the BBC orchestra:
This is an interesting parallel to ‘what does a pop song sound like with an orchestra?’ – what does a multi-tracked sequenced pop song sound like when every individual part is played live by a ‘orchestra’ of keyboard players? Warning: contains Barney ‘singing’.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwFgC5w1wtA
Yes, the OP made me think of that too. I thought it was a great idea and looked, dare I say it, like a lot of fun. Particularly when one of the musicians with not a lot to do dances around a bit.
“one of the musicians with not a lot to do dances around a bit.”
I saw Bonny Light Horseman in Dublin last year with the RTE Concert Orchestra (brilliant) and they played in London two days later with the London Contemporary Orchestra – so I guess you’re close to what actually happens, Chris. The orchestra probably get a score some days in advance and can rehearse that before the band / artist come to town…
The Yes, obviously…any band that routinely uses mellotron to fill in for an orchestra will generally do well with a real one. The whole Yes Symphonic Live cd and dvd is excellent – and Tom Brislin is a much underrated keyboard player.
I have never really got the conceit of orchestrating rock, pop, blues etc, as it seems always trying to suggest it is more “serious” that way than it would otherwise be, effectively undermining the position of the unorchestrated performance. Having said, that is often as the orchestrations are bog standard sweeping strings playing the main melody, that giving it a bad name. But, with a really good score, it can become magical.
…ie, you “get the conceit” when it’s a band of which you approve (eg Tindersticks)…🙂
Rumbled! You may well have a point there. But no, things like the Levellers orchestral are just so wrong.
As mentioned above, yer bog-standard “sweeping strings” type of orchestration could probably be played by any competent ensemble with a minimum of rehearsal, and rehearsal time is a large part of the expense of playing an orchestrated gig.
A UK orchestra will all be on Musicians Union hourly rates for rehearsal and for performance (different rates for the two) and a rehearsal space will also have to be hired for the duration.
The score will have been sent out in advance to a trusted ensemble. The artists may bring preferred soloists and the arranger/conductor with them. Particularly if the orchestration is not just “sweeping strings”.
I imagine that since Brexit, it’s more common for British artists to play outside of the UK with a local ensemble. To save the added expense and bureauocracy.
I went a few years back to one of John Zorn’s birthday celebration concerts in a London venue. Can’t remember whether it was at The South Bank or The Barbican. He toured the show in the USA and in several European cities and live recordings were later released.
He brought with him a sizeable band and a few featured singers, but different small string ensembles and choirs were employed at some venues. Possibly this was due to their availability on given nights, as much as anything.
I’ve been enjoying ABC doing Lexicon Of Love on Sky Arts, conducted by Anne Dudley. I notice Anne now needs glasses to read the score, but she’s only 14 years older than me, which makes her, er, 41?
It comes to us all, if we’re lucky to last long enough. The other week I went to the local book festival to hear Helen Lederer talk about her new autobiography. I checked out her Wiki beforehand and found myself wondering how it is possible that she is 69. Then I remembered that somehow I am 57.
It’s only when you realize you’re the same age as elderly people, that you start feeling old.
In her late 70s, my Mother used to say that she was going on a day trip “with the old people” as if she wasn’t one of them.
Arf! My ma used to volunteer for Help the Aged and visit people in their homes. Younger than her. (Is it still called Help the Aged or has it had a rejig like the Spastics Society did?)
When I was at JMI, every Monday afternoon, my Gran would host the Friendly Club for old folks in the village hall opposite school. I’d go and join for a Kit-Kat and the raffle (in which I somehow always seemed to have a winning ticket).
They all seemed impossibly old. Doing the maths now, my gran was in her mid-50s, so my current age.
A few years ago, going out acoustic was the thing (with the underlying reason to prove the worth of the songs).
The orchestra is now the thing – and why not, adds some “new” to often heard toons.
I’ve got a CD somewhere (I can’t find it at the moment) titled Classical Punk – the orchestrated version of Too Drunk To F**k would make Jello Biafra proud
I’ve often wondered the same with a horn section. Some backstage footage of Midnight Oil has Rob and Jim walking the horns through a couple of songs for that night’s show. I then realised that many bands with horns (on just a few songs at a least) wouldn’t want to have them as part of the whole tour with attendant accommodation, insurance etc. Just pick up a trio at whatever city they’re in and give them the chart at soundcheck.
I saw Roy Wood several years ago and recognised his sax player as the peripatetic saxophone teacher at the school I worked at.
So I imagine it’s obviously cost effective to hire local.
Three of my favourite “…with orchestra” outings are ‘Enzso’ – wherein Eddie Rayner out of Split Enz corralled some classical Kiwis, the Finn Brothers and Dave Dobbyn to do some of the oldies; ‘Open Heart Symphony’ featuring a series of original songs by Canadian folk rock troubadours Spirit of the West (there’s a version of “That’s Amore” from the encores on their Greatest Hits elbun) and The Church’s ‘Psychedelic Symphony’ during which the orchestra have to endure a lengthy improvised intro to ‘Tantalised’ (all of these performances are available online) paid for by a wealthy benefactor of the group. (The Church, not the Sydney Opera House). All of these were funded and rehearsed in different ways. It’s tempting to assume that you just hand out the scores and let the classical musicians play but I think you need (a) The New Zealand Arts Council (b) your record company or (c) A handy millionaire, to make any of these models work.
Mike H summarises it very well. Most pro orchestral players can pick up what are usually pretty straightforward parts with an afternoons rehearsal so some tours will indeed use local players at each venue. That saves them hotel and travel costs. That said, by and large tours – such as, recently, James, Echo and the Bunnymen and the aforementioned ABC – will sign up an ensemble for a whole tour, at least within the UK, to ensure consistency and because actually it can be easier than having to find different players in each city
A case in point. Lovely.
Yes but no. Much as I love the ASDHMs, it just confirms my feel it is to make it more “high brow” than mere rock and roll.
Yebbut AWSOP was never mere rock ‘n’ roll in the first place, was it? Anyway, I like it.
It’s more lahdidah than the record.
It’s the equivalent of all those feckin’ Proms in the Park concerts that litter any town with a Waitrose in it, every bleeding summer. And as for all those Orchestral Ibiza travesties that roll around, a week or two later…….
Adding an orchestra or string arrangement at a later date, to something that was recorded originally without, is generally a pointless exercise.
With only a very few exceptions, it adds nothing of more than fleeting interest.
I saw Tori Amos perform with the Sydney Symphony Orchestra at the SOH a few years.
I’m pretty sure she knew they were in the room (she can be a little off in her own world).
Since we’re here. Depeche Mode did some orchestrated versions of their own songs via the BBC’s Piano Room but I liked their version of Sundown the best.
Who remembers Louis Clark (Snr) Hooked On Classics? At the time, 1981, the release sold like hot cakes to a certain demography. An indication of success back then was if you could find it in Woolworths. I guess having an orchestra lends a kind of ‘legitimacy’ and elevates a song and the status of the pop / rock performer. Behind every orchestral arrangement is an arranger and a lot of work. Almost without exception, rank and file orchestral players are excellent sight readers. Put a written part in front of them and they will read it and play it perfectly first time. Unless the arranger had written something which is impossible to play. So yes, the answer to the question is, acts can tour throughout the world and book a local orchestra to play the orchestral backing. There may logisitcal problems touring city to city and lining up all the different orchestra however. From a musical standpoint, the orchestra is a problematic addition. With amplified rock instruments, drums etc, achieving a balance with orchestra requires careful and considered writing. It’s often impossible for the orchestra to do anything more than add a pad of chords with the occassional break allowing an orchestral sound to break through. The best examples are those when the song has been reconsidered from an orchestral perspective. Three of my personal favourites are (in no particular order) Sting – Symphonicites, George Michael – Symphonica, Travelogue – Joni Mitchel. There are more of course, but these three being examples of where the orchestra contributes tothe song in a meaningful manner. Unlike say Heaven 17 – The Luxury Gap where the orchestra was added later (my own work).