Dull-as-ditchwater but usually on the money consumer periodical Which has branched out from fridge-freezers and broadband providers to consider the vinly revival. It, perhaps unsurprisingly sits on the fence when it comes to vinyl vs CD vis mp3, as rather sagely it offers this view:
Music has never been just about the sound itself. Music is about a sense of occasion. It involves rituals such as moseying around record shops or pulling a vinyl record out of its sleeve and setting it to play. Careful handling and respect is required – which appeals to purists – and that;s one reason many choose manual turntables.
The very inconvenience of adjusting turntables means you tend to listen to and absorb an entire album…and when it comes to digital formats you can lose the enjoyment of admiring a cover or looking fondly at your carefully curated collection.
Amen, brother, amen.
Best buys and ones to avoid in the comments.
No surprises here:
Best buys Rega Planar 1 and Planar 3; Elipson Omega 100; Project Primary E
Avoid: All Bush retro models, all Crossleys, the GPO Stylo.
I bought one of the Rega Record Store Day 2017 turntables. Lovely bit of kit.
That’s a RP1.
The other best buys are all “inspired by” Regas.
With some RP3 bits.
Definitely something in that ritual idea. I’ve been drinking too much coffee for years, tried to get into tea, but to no avail. A friend bought me a teapot for Christmas and in the new year when I took to bed with a cold I thought the teapot’s greater capacity would be a handy way to reduce my number of trips to the kitchen. What came as a total surprise was how pleasurable the whole process of making tea in the pot and watching it trickle from the spout would be. I’d swear it tastes better for the extra effort..
(Now just substitute “sounds better” for “tastes better…”)
I have come close to posting this recently to start a thread, so this looks like an excuse to write this!
I have never got rid of my records and have even recently bought the odd vinyl disc at gigs etc, however I rarely play them. I was late to adopt CDs, only capitulating when it seemed LPs were finished in the early 90s, but I have become accustomed to the sheer convenience of CD and mp3 – the capacity of archival releases, the relatively easy care and maintenance, the terrific sound, etc.
However….and this is tricky for a format agnostic like me….I have experienced something of a revelation. My turntable had developed a fault (the arm was loose, in summary) and I couldn’t fix it for ages, but I stuck at it and now it is fine (for information, it is a 30+ year old Revolver deck). I bought a new Goldring cartridge….and it is suddenly sounding effing brilliant! As a reference, my CD player is a fairly high end £2000 Roksan, but the deck is producing fantastic sound from my old records which I never thought I would get. I’m now having huge fun, but also having to recalibrate my thoughts on vinyl versus CD.
Yes, and the careful handling and ritualistic aspect is nostalgic (and Mrs. T commented how the sound of me blowing dust off the stylus took her right back!), but it is the wonderful sound that is compelling.
So the moral of the tale is vinyl is best if you’ve got good kit – and you’ve looked after your records.
The other issue is whether new vinyl sounds as marvellous as old. To my ears if often sounds identical to the CD version, which makes it a rather expensive option.
I know you meant to say “vinyl is best if you prefer vinyl” 😉
Running a vinyl event in my local café gets me talking to civilians on this subject. This from one yesterday:
“I’ll have to get my records down from the loft. My CDs went to landfill years ago.”
Nobody (so far) has said “I listen to CDs”. It’s mostly Spotify, and the very occasional vinylista.
In terms of value hardware, there are several Technics SL1210 clones on the market, one of which Mini bought. The originals were made of steel to withstand the rigours of DJing, the clones are of plastic for domestic use.
I’ll say it then.
I listen to CDs.
Absolutely everything above – ritual, sourcing the product, lovingly reading the sleeve-notes, buying magazines and books around the subject – I conform to.
The only difference is that I do it with an easily shelved, easily accessed and longer lasting format which I can effortlessly listen to in my favourite room, the kitchen.
By the end of this year the 100 or so CDs I’ll purchase will average about £2 each, including the 5 or 6 full price reissues I’ll no doubt get around to buying.
Furthermore, I’m buying quality.
In a recent Oxy I stood behind two 60s dodgers, one with a Commodores LP, the other with a Neil Diamond LP, me with my King Curtis, Curtis Mayfield and “Stand Up and Be Counted” funk CDs.
They were buying the kind of tat that would have been laughed out of court ten years ago. Not a Scooby Doo between them.
Mantra – same as it ever was – whatever the music industry want you to do, do the opposite. I bought vinly in the dire 1980s. Bought my first CD player in 1997.
Indeed, simply do the opposite of the prevailing norms/values of 2019 and you won’t go far wrong.
Reading sleevenotes in tiny CD booklets? Mister, you’re a better man than I ….
Firstly, there are sleeve-notes … a distinct rarity on vinly; secondly, use a magnifying glass. Perfectly fine.
Depends. Most vinyl reissues have sleevenotes, and the printed lyrics, musician credits etc are legible.
“Sleeve” notes in a CD are at best fiddly and tiny – our own ColinH has authored some fine works that have been reproduced in this format.
But the best LPs have huge lyric sheets almost a foot across, in both directions, using fonts larger than 4 point Gnatschuff, boast illustrated booklets with colour photographs, and include bespoke artwork you can actually admire from a distance equivalant to the length of a whole arm.
That is the plus side of vinyl without a doubt.
You both obviously haven’t seen any Metallica, Dr. Dre or PJ Harvey vinyl albums (original or reissued) – lyrics in condensed (!) 6pt. (!!) dark grey font on black background is the more user-friendly variant. On reissues the lyrics are often slightly blurry because they couldn’t be arsed to make new typesetting; very efficient if you have purple print on green background.
I’ll always prefer a decently and professionally layouted CD booklet over an album-sized inner sleeve with overkill graphics and columns 28 cm wide. Hux, Ace and Bear Family have produced some wonderful CD packages with fabulous booklets.
Have you checked out the Dutton Vocalion sale @deramdaze? Lots of Brit jazz and rock n roll amongst the easy listening, many CDs at 99p.
https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/products.php?cat=4
Oooh, thanks for the alert, mini – I just bagged a Joe Harriott Quintet CD and a Dick Morrissey Quartet CD at much reduced prices.
I got a Joe Harriott too, and have the Dick Morrissey one already. Both absolutely marvellous stuff. Parp!
You’re not a civilian, though.
I too prefer CDs and have no intention of going back to vinyl. Now I can’t feel my hands and have become increasingly clumsy, vinyl records would be too easy to damage anyway. I had written a longer explanation of why I prefer CDs, but deleted it to avoid the kicking I’d get. What I will say is that the constant adverts for gold vinyl, purple vinyl, raspberry ripple vinyl, etc makes me think that a very large percentage of vinyl buyers are doing it for the aesthetics.
I have a deck; I’m looking at it now. I have a long double decker line of vinlys, all along the floor to the wall, about 600 with about 60 singles, brought out of retirement in garages, the wife and I’s. They survived this banishment and play beautifully. But I can never be arsed, when I have shelves of CDs ranked behind me. So, what do I listen to? To feckn’ spotty thru my Sonos, as it is quicker to find what I want, if it is there. Despite the CDs being in bleeding alphabetical. Or thru’ my laptop, blu-toothed into headphones.
The deck is all about one day, one day. I even bought 6 new (2nd hand) records 3 years ago. Which I haven’t played yet.
Yup. I had all the kit (expensive stuff too) and rows and rows of Records and CDs but swapped it all for Sonos because I decide I want to listen to something and within a few seconds, wherever I am and whatever I’m doing, it’s on and I’m listening. The ritual stuff just didn’t matter enough.
Everything has been digitised and I AM picky about sound quality though. Still has to be a stereo pair set-up for the main listening position – some things ARE sacred. Can’t bring myself to commit full-on to streaming and if I like something I buy it. Just that nagging feeling that I want to own it so no one can ever take it away!
Rarely play CDs, they are (nearly) all ripped and I access them through a Squeeezebox. Still play lots of vinyl and somehow seem to have acquired multiple turntables. Frustration is the quality of new pressings can be very variable.
yes I have bought new vinlys with surface noise FFS. Pay top dollar and not much better than a shitty aussie pressing from the 80s
Another hilarious article on cassettes in yesterday’s Observer … ‘sales are soaring’ … the top seller last week sold a whopping 540. I bet the milkman’s whistling that one.
Not quite the 2,000,000 of Can’t Buy Me Love, but getting there.
And also not the 1,880,000 of Wham’s “Last Christmas” – and that didn’t even get to No.1 in the UK singles chart!
Shhh, that observed data does not fit the “Golden Age” theory!
Think you mean She Loves You.
No, Can’t Buy Me Love. Advanced sales.
The Golden Age isn’t a theory – mid-50s to end of 60s – think Beatles.
Missed that = mugged off. That’s not a theory.
And last time I looked 2,000,000 is a bigger number than 1,880,000 and ever-so-slightly bigger than 540.
Please please us and review the HJH-denying romcom Yesterday for us @deramdaze
@deramdaze Only their 3rd best selling single. I do believe sales did actually peak in the 80s.
This list has CBML at no. 35 of all time with 1.5 million sales (Last Christmas at 12)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_singles_in_the_United_Kingdom#Best-selling_singles_based_on_paid-for_purchases
Last time I’ll say this because you seem unwilling – on purpose I’m guessing – to understand it, but not everyone’s Golden Age is the same. The Sixties sure ain’t mine.
I like vinyl for the records that I cannot find on lossless or CD. It’s a nice change from digital listening. The cliche is right: the process of using vinyl feels like you are a part of the experience, rather than just clicking “play” on some media server software.
I can understand the popularity of Vinyl and to some extent the ritual, the larger size of an LP etc etc, but as I’ve probably bored everyone before with, they are just not for me (and being in may early 50s, I did grow up with them)……..
– I live in a 30degC / 80% humidity climate – if the the vinyl is not warped in a week, it will soon have various fungi growing all over it…….
– I like the instant access, the fact I can listen to the whole album without turning over, can skip easily to something else immediately, that I get from having my complete collection on a music server.
– I know it’s a highly opiniated topic, but to me I don’t feel that vinyl necessarily sounds better than CD or digital – as an electronics engineer, I know my sampling theorems and the fact that the frequency response of vinyl decreases as the stylus moves across the disc (one of the reasons rock groups had more ‘ballads’ at the end of side 1 and side 2).
– I know this is not a debate about sound quality (which we have had many times) but I still maintain that it’s not the playback medium that is the main factor in sound quality, it’s how well it was mastered – sure, there is an argument that some albums are mastered with more care / better for the vinyl release than the ‘cheap and cheerful’ digital, but there are many examples of well mastered digital that will blow vinyl away in terms of sound quality.
Hides behind sofa pending backlash…….
I agree 100%. Plus, they are not as vulnerable to scratches, warps, hisses & jumps.
I’ve said this before too – I have CDs that sound great and some are rubbish, whilst some LPs are brilliant and others not so. It (presumably….obviously..?.) it depends on how the thing is made from recording through to manufacture. As I said above, I am a format agnostic and all have their place – my rediscovery of my record collection is as much about rediscovering those old records that I haven’t heard for years rather than some affection for the vinyl format. It is a bonus and a bit of a surprise they (generally) sound great, but it is about the bloody music!
With new releases it is CDs every time – new vinyl is stupidly expensive, and of very variable quality in my exeperience.
I listen to vinyl, stream and CDs.
These days, with a few exceptions, I buy CDs coz records are just ridiculously priced – old and new. Previously I bought records when shops were getting rid of them now it seems to be the reverse.
I have never bought vinyl. I’m fairly sure I never will.
Good to hear some balance with plenty of support for CD as well as vinyl. I will add to the debate that it’s horses for courses:
Public transport – no option but the fiio, AKGs and mp3s
Car- CDs.
Home – streaming in the kitchen. Vinyl or CD in the front room. Listened to Bauhaus’ last album Burning from the Inside yesterday evening and it sounded fantastic on vinyl.
Though @fentonsteve our gemini xl-500 II no doubt is not perfect as a turntable, but it’s made like a tank and we rebooted it with a new Stanton recently. When it falls over it’ll no doubt be a Rega.
Regas are not for everyone. If you like the Gemini (a Technics clone) you might do better with one of the more modern SL1210 copies or, even, a modern Technics.
The worst-sounding part of a SL1210 was the arm, which is relatively easily replaced.
Yes @fentonsteve I’ve just googled and found out the Rega is a belt drive. While I ‘know’ with my adult brain that this doesn’t mean anything, with my chimp brain I remember we bought the Gemini after years of no-doubt shoddy 80s turntables that we were never 100% sure were playing at the correct speed. So yes, probably we may be direct drive people.
Horses for courses with me. I play my music on whatever format I happen to have it in, usually by some accident of ancient or modern history. Today it’s the Four Seasons Story on vinyl. Next it’s Elite Hotel on FLAC. If it’s not worth switching hardware to listen to something it’s probably not worth listening to.
That said, the glorious randomiser of the shuffle on an iPod is one of the greatest inventions in the world.
Haven’t listened to a piece of vinyl in years, its too much of a faff. Everything is ripped to a NAS drive and backed up on another couple of drives, one of which I use at work plugged into a Samsung tablet to listen all day in the factory. With a bit of Spotify thrown in it works brilliantly.
Invested in a few Sonos speakers for home listening, the app is really easy to use. We’ve listened to more stuff in the last few months than in years because Sonos makes it a doddle to access your stuff.
I’ve just recently catalogued and cleaned just over 200 lps bought at an auction as a job lot, mostly tat and far too much Barclay James Harvest, but nestling among the Police and Earth, Wind and Fire Was a near mint, mono, unboxed red-label Decca 1st pressing of Beggars Banquet! Worth 200 of your English pounds – you don’t get that with your tiny, shiny bird scarer discs.
I bought a job lot of cassettes quite recently for around £20. There was some tat to chuck out, a few Bowie dupes for a pal, and a dozen or so titles for keeps. There was also a limited edition Motorhead tape in a special leather pouch (steady Moose), which I sold to a collector abroad for £50.
A leather pouch – if you will, a harness.
No doubt I’m quoting Mrs Moose here, but: gosh that was quick!
That’s Motorhead for you.
Absolutely, horses for courses. I’m a vinyl fan but I cannot understand the current craze for new vinyl at 20 or 30 quid a pop. All my vinyl is vintage, bar one or two.
My daughter’s boyfriend is 22 and a proficient guitar player (knows all the old classics). The other day I played him Jimi’s Little Wing on vinyl, a song he can play well. He said he was hearing stuff he’d never heard (the Leslie speaker swirl, for example) because he never listens to music on a hifi system. So kids today love the old stuff, but they’re not concerned to hear it as it was meant to sound.
When “Little Wing” was originally released, in 1967, most people would only have heard it on Dansette-type players. Nobody then had stereos except posh people.
I have considered overhauling my record deck. Get a new cartridge and sort the alignment out properly. Clean all my old vinyl.
I’m not planning on buying any new vinyl, though. Just fancy hearing the old stuff again.
It’s a good point Mike. Part of the reason people were so taken with CDs when they first came out was because they were hearing familiar music with a new clarity in many cases – because many of us grew up with low-fi stereos.
If your vintage vinyl has been looked after, I would encourage you to overhaul the deck, or buy a vintage one on ebay, which is what I did and invest in a good cartridge. Then dig out that copy of Axis.
PS – that version of Little Wing I was playing the boyfriend was a mint copy of BackTrack 11 that I picked up recently. It sounds amazing, appreciably better than my ’67 copy of the original Axis, but worth considerably less!
That BackTrack series of reissues were amazing value, given that they came out not very long after the originals and were nice and cheap at a pound a pop.
@Mike_H I don’t buy new music on vinyl, as £20 for an album is really going back to the late 80s heights of CD pricing/profiteering. I remember HMV’s great ‘2 for £22’ offers for example. Just checked and the LCD Soundsystem album from last year is £18 on vinyl, £5.99 on CD! from ver tax dodgers. Will it sound better, possibly. Will it sound three times as good? No I venture to say.
So it’s second-hand for vinyl additions or playing the stuff I already own.
Will make an exception buying from the artist at a gig.
I’ve been saying for ten years or so that I must get around to reassembling my stereo system so I can listen to my old LPs…it’ll probably take me another ten years before that actually happens.
I do sometimes buy new albums on vinyl, but only when it’s the only format available…certain hipster artists trying to be cool… 😉 That’s fine as long as you get a download code as well, but I’ve had experiences of buying a vinyl album and getting only that, without realising it when ordering online. That’s annoying!
I’ve never unloaded my vinyl, but have never gone bananas re pricey equipment…my stuff’s a bit Richer Sounds…Yes, I know.
I’ve tended not to play many CDs – having convinced myself that I prefer vinyl…
I recently, however acquired one of these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XiangSheng-DAC-01A-DAC-Tube-24Bit-96Khz-USB-Decoders-Headphone-PreAmplifier-
for abt £100 inc postage, with a small import charge on top.
I’ve put a fairly bog-standard Cambridge Audio CD player thru’ it and the sound is, to my cloth ears, fantastic.
It even lifts sound from the ‘phone.
I’m currently awaiting a USB lead to hook up laptop to the DAC, but I’m told that the streramed sound is equally revelatory.
I’ve tried all kinds of stuff thru’ it and everything seems clearer and seems to include things I can’t remember hearing before.
Not sure if it’s capable of improving Nog Junior’s Drill and Trap compilations….but wel worth checking out.
Just off to see how Blodwyn Pig sound these days
I’ve never unloaded my vinyl, but have never gone bananas re pricey equipment…my stuff’s a bit Richer Sounds…Yes, I know.
I’ve tended not to play many CDs – having convinced myself that I prefer vinyl…
I recently, however acquired one of these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XiangSheng-DAC-01A-DAC-Tube-24Bit-96Khz-USB-Decoders-Headphone-PreAmplifier-SZ/183481299229?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20180105095853%26meid%3D1e0a345e75ee46c2b90143d432560bc5%26pid%3D100903%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D20%26sd%3D183481299229%26itm%3D183481299229&_trksid=p2509164.c100903.m5276
for abt £100 inc postage, with a small import charge on top.
I’ve put a fairly bog-standard Cambridge Audio CD player thru’ it and the sound is, to my cloth ears, fantastic.
It even lifts sound from the ‘phone.
I’m currently awaiting a USB lead to hook up laptop to the DAC, but I’m told that the streramed sound is equally revelatory.
I’ve tried all kinds of stuff thru’ it and everything seems clearer and seems to include things I can’t remember hearing before.
Not sure if it’s capable of improving Nog Junior’s Drill and Trap compilations….but well worth checking out.
Just off to see how Blodwyn Pig sound these days