The EDC thread had a diversion into the world of fountain pens caused by @fitterstoke calling out the HongDian M2 as a great value Kaweco Sport alternative. A couple of other M2 owners sung it’s praise and at least 3 were ordered.
So there are a few of pen enthusiasts here (there are other terms but some of them sound quite sinister) and I wondered what ink you use and recommend?
I have some cartridges for my Kaweco (some black and some grey) and a bottle of black Lamy ink for my Lamy fountain pen. A quick search on theinternet suggests that there is at least as much conversation around ink and colour as there is about pens.
So – what do you use and why? And which bottles have the best way of avoiding (or minimising) and inky end?
Before I had my very nice Cross fountain pen stolen I had turquoise cartridges for it. Probably signifies some unpleasant personality disorder these days but when I was at school ink pens were mandatory and turquoise ink was the rebel’s colour as opposed to the conventional pupils with their black and blue. Parker, obvs. So I stuck with it.
Ha ha! I found a half-used bottle of turquoise Quink while at school and used it until it ran out. Its rebellious qualities went unremarked by my various teachers. These days I use Midnight Blue Mont Blanc ink for my Meisterstuck 149.
Cripes! My first car cost less than that!
Never mind the ink @rufus-t-firefly I was given some Mont Blanc ink and a pen as a gift some time ago, and it would get much more use if the ink was not so damn inky it bled through to the next page. So a suggestion for a notepad that is substantial enough not to bleed through.
Rhodia, perhaps? Not cheap, but high quality and lots of sizes, big and small.
Definitely Rhodia for me too. They are substantial enough for fountain pens @moselymoles, but I mainly use a (Mont Blanc) ballpoint for my work.
Leuchtturm 1917 notebooks are very good for fountain pens. The paper is a good weight and ink bleed is minimal to non existent. Much better than Moleskine
Numbered pages and a contents page too.
Not inexpensive but still just about worth the £15 to £20 they want. I’m fond of the softcover ones.
Indeed – I use a Leuchtturm 1917 diary/notebook every day. Not cheap, as you say – but for a once a year purchase? And definitely better than Moleskine!
Mine too! (terrible K reg Fiat 128). I’ve had this pen since around 1980. A few years later it escaped from my pocket when I was running to get on a plane and the barrel cracked. I think Dunhill handled MB in those days, so I took it to their service place in Brentwood. The repair, plus a service and polish were all done free of charge because, “Mont Blancs shouldn’t leak”.
Diamine Inks.
Beautiful colours and combinations. Nothing wrong with Washable Blue, Black and Blue-Black, but I’m currently writing with Diamine Mediterranean Blue and Diamine Hope Pink.
Amazon (as bloody always) sell 30ml bottles in packs of eight.
Diamine Green-Black is next to try.
A pack of 8?
*goes of to Amazon*
Packs of 6. Apologies.
I got excited
I assumed so. Have bought the following: Amber, Oxblood, Imperial Purple, Aurora Borealis, Oxford Blue, Meadow.
Nice.
Excellent choices.
I have the three mentioned above plus Classic Red, Sepia, Ancient Copper, Earl Grey, Twilight and Jet Black.
I might spring for that six pack you’ve just bought aswell.
They’ll all get used. I write a lot of notes. My notepads are very pleasing to look at if not to actually read through.
Don’t you have to go through the tiresome process of washing the nib out before changing inks?
Yep. And it is tiresome, but it goes with the lifestyle of us renegade, pink ink using rebels.
😁
Also, I have a lot of pens which I’ll leave inked up in certain colours so nib flushing isn’t too much of a bind
I have a Parker Sonnet fountain pen which I’ve used for years with black Quink cartridges. I also have a couple of matching Sonnet roller ball pens which are so much nicer to write with than ballpoints, one blue ink, one black.
Quink was always the ink of choice at school and I still have a couple of bottles of Royal Blue and Black. This Mont Blanc bottle was the last one I got, which has the advantage of letting you dip your pen in not too deep, but having a steady reservoir of ink to tip up into the drinking space:
But sadly, given that I use a fountain pen partly to avoid the waste of disposable pens, I find the almost unavoidable mess of refilling means I now prefer a simple cartridge of the generic type. The advantage of these is, I can easily swap colours if I want (though I rarely see the need for red or green or turquoise inks):
All of which begs the question under what circumstances do you feel the need for violet ink and why?
(I rather like a violet ink: J.Herbin Violette Pensée, since you ask…)
Black cartridges for me. Austere and boring that’s me.
At the violet hour, when I go to the Wasteland floorshow to listen to violent sounds with Tiresias, a typist and a sailor we met on the way.
Letters to the local paper about closing skate parks and young people being noisy perchance?
Green ink for that, shurely?
But which shade of green?
Well, I use Parker Penman Emerald for the purpose…
Teal.
You know me and teal!
Sure do.
Just back from the UK, and this little gem was waiting for me in the postbox.
Dark metallic blue, it’s got a fair bit more weight to it than my Kaweco Sport, is longer as well (when readied to write), and has a thicker ink width. It feels solid, and the filler sucks up ink nicely. I’ll just have to build up my writing muscles to accommodate the additional heaviness. First impressions are positive.
Mine is made from the finest green.
It goes nicely with the pale shade of the wall behind you.
I’m now waiting to see what @Leedsboy has got.
OK @salwarpe. I have a nice dark grey pen (described as black but, even as a colour blind man, I can tell it is a different colour than the black clip).
More importantly, that is a @pencilsqueezer on the wall behind me.
Very nicely-shaped dark grey – both your pen and your coiffure.
I am a nib head.
That’s a Space Grey one, Old Fruit.
Same as mine, so I’ll refrain from a photo.
Equally importantly I also have an original Pencilsqueezer
Mine is Army Green, same as Mr P’s…
…and I also have an original Pencilsqueezer: I’m starting to see a pattern emerge!
That will explain it. At least I now have a cool descriptor for my hair colour as well. It’s Space Grey!
Space Grey for me. With Diamine Green/ Black ink in it, innit.
I have a green plastic Kaweco Sport which is a great pen. This new Hongdian one feels a little more substantial and writes equally well.
My Kaweco is the aluminium one and it feels about the same weight as the M2. I think I prefer it as it seems to sit a little bit better – perhaps because the grip part of the section is shorter and fatter. and the barrel has the flat sides. But it is just nit picking.
The metal Kaweco’s are beautiful objects I think.
These might interest you chaps..
They do that, @fitterstoke.
What are the first three on the left?
In ‘I Don’t Really Need It’ news I bought another Hongdian M2. Matte Black this time. Writes a little smoother than my first so this shall be my main squeeze on the Small Fountain Pen front.
I do use them all. They’re all filled with different colours, to keep dull civil service note-taking a rainbow of a task.
EDIT: I can see two of them are Kaweco Sports. Little gems of pens.
I confess to being an owner of multiple Hongdian M2s. Three to be exact. The green version a brown and a blue. Different nibs in each, different inks. I use them for sketchbook work alongside pencils and combined with a little ‘wet work’ they are just the ticket.
Well…from left to right:
1. A Kaweco “special” made for Cult Pens. No longer available – they still have a relationship with Kaweco, but their “specials” are now plastic, like the Sport.
2. Raw aluminium AL-Sport
3. AL-Sport with carbon fibre panels
4. Kaweco Sport piston filler – the metal version (there is a plastic one)
5. Clearly, the HongDian M2, responsible for these exchanges!
eta: I’ve got a raw brass Lilliput as well – but I forgot to include it in the picture. It doesn’t get as much use as the others, tbh…
…and, just like that, @Leedsboy gains an ink-stained hamper! Who would’ve thought it?
Ink Stained Hamper is a good album title…
Is your raw aluminium Kaweco getting polished? Mine looks more ‘raw’*
*scruffy.
No, not polished. It certainly doesn’t look pristine in real life, but not wrecked either…
Is now the time to admit I have ordered a brass M2 from Amazon? It’s on a bit of an offer and it seems to have the best reviews of all the M2’s. I’ve told myself I needed a medium nib pen….
Looking forward to a picture and a review, in due course!
Seconded.
It’s very nice. Unbelievably nice for £14.44. Heavier than an aluminium M2 which, I think I prefer. It’s slightly grippier as well. The medium nib is excellent – less scratchy than the Fine nib. The finish is brushed and I suspect it will scratch over time (develop a rich patina…). But a lovely pen.
£17.99 now.
I don’t need one. No. Nope. Not necessary.
Me? Buying one? Nah. Nope-etty nope…
Very nice indeed!
Personally, I think niche topics like pen ink have no place on this forum. The AW should be for music and Wordle only.
And poignant tales of a childhood in the north east of Scotland
And a little bit of politics
And a smattering of modern culture like TV and movies
And nice places to go in Sicily (where we are going in a month’s time)
And whatever technical problem Junior can’t solve today
And what’s the weather like where you are
But definitely no pen ink
ps I had to sign a cheque the other day – I’ve forgotten how to write, in the end I just squiggled…
I just squiggled seems to be your Wordle strategy as well.
That would have looked so much nicer in Mediterranean Blue.
The US company Noodler’s has inks in the most astonishing range of colours.
Apache sunset, Black Swan in Australian Roses, Brexit(!), Rome Burning, Socrates, Purple Mountain Majesties, Sun Never Sets, Kiowa Pecan, Dragon’s Napalm, Squeteague, Bad Belted Kingfisher, Widow Maker, Hellfire, Q’Eternity, and countless others.
Feast your eyes, ink fans!
https://www.purepens.co.uk/collections/noodlers
also in future discussions: my kanban board set-up, is bullet journalling right for you and my four-hour morning routine including rubbing banana skins on face etc etc. Let the niche lifestyle posts flourish.
https://www.timesnownews.com/health/fitness-influencer-ashton-halls-wellness-routine-goes-viral-know-the-benefits-of-ice-water-dipping-and-banana-peels-article-119567715
Bring it on, having had the joys of skincare, um, “persuaded” upon me of late, finding the ritual and routine of it. Especially as I now get told I don’t look a day under 70*.
*I am 403 days under 70.
Surely these are all you need.
Mostly I use Diamine inks: particularly Prussian Blue (in my Parker Duofold); Skull and Roses Blue (a royal blue with a prominent red sheen); various greys; and some of the Cult Pens “Deep Dark” specials. Oh, and Sherwood Green – my “go to” when I was at work and still in use at home.
Also some J Herbin inks: mostly Bleu Myosotis, Bleu des Profondeurs and Violette Pensée. I have one of the Pilot Iroshizuku inks (kind of dark teal) and two from Kyoto Inks (pictured) – very nice…
I draw with a Schneider. It’s cartridges are fine, but I’ve discovered this evening that they’re not waterproof.
My day to day is a Pilot Varsity black ink.
If I’m feeling fancy, Quink BlueBlack
My current every day, “go to” favourite is Diamine Graphite.
Which, I suppose, begs the question: why not just use a pencil?
What do people write with such pens and ink? I only use a pen these days to scrawl notes at work
I’ve hesitated to ask that question (says the retiree who can just about manage a squiggled signature on a cheque with a Biro he found buried in his “workstation”). WTAF are they writing? Love letters to each other admiring the length of their nibs? Are they all members of a Secret Society which one day will find the Fountain Pen To Rule Us All ?
Don’t think I have used a fountain pen since I was about 12. I do think it is something of a lost art though. But I am no longer writing “frightening verse to a buck-toothed girl in Luxemburg”
I make notes a lot whilst working – on calls etc. Also, in meetings, I try to avoid using my laptop – it is often a distraction and find a piece of paper less distracting. I’ve tried to do list apps and my problem is I don’t look at them as much as I do a piece of paper on my desk.
If I am writing, I find it more pleasing to do it with a nice/interesting pen and fountain pens are that for me. I think it makes me look sexier, more atractive to women and more inteligent to boot. Only the ink stain on my nice blue jacket reflects the downside of a fountain pen.
Damn, if only you could spell intelligant…
I’m torn between taking credit for an undeniably corny but amusing gaffe or just fessing up to a typo due to the fact I am both crap at typing and, invariably, doing something else at the same time.
To all intents this for me too.
I make a lot of notes at work. Lists, reminders, summaries, draft reports. All for my own use. It’s so much easier to write it down longhand than to type up a note on a keyboard. They’re all to hand on the same notebook on my literal desktop rather than on file on a home drive. IT isn’t necessarily more effective or efficient.
Plus, I’ve always found writing by hand quite pleasing, ever since school. I have decent handwriting and I like to keep it up to snuff.
More recently I’ve started keeping what I suppose I need to call a diary. It’s more a list of personal aide memoires but I will sometimes dig a little deeper and write Some Meaningful Thoughts. I’ve mentioned£ here before that my older brother is slipping badly into dementia and we’re encouraging him to try note keeping for himself. I’ve taken on the habit for myself.
All of this takes ink through a fountain pen. Which I have always preferred to a biro, again ever since school. The more interesting and vivid the colours the better. They can quite literally brighten up a day’s work.
I take detailed notes from most books I am reading, as I find it a good way of reinforcing the learning from the material. Also, it makes me slow down and avoid skim reading, particularly if I’m using a nib pen.
Plus, it’s more sustainable, innit?
There is a pleasure in manual acts* that crummy typing and swiping can never replicate or replace.
*Oh for a Moose of fire…
Of course, you don’t have to write with them…
Very good
Thanks – I’ve just started, really. El Hombro Malo mentioned a “Sketch a Day” app in the blogger takeover. I can’t draw for toffee – so of course I signed up!
I wish I could draw. I bought a book and did some exercises but I didn’t keep it up. I guess it’s one of those things I wish I could do but not too the point of making any effort to learn how to do it.
yay! lovely to see you making your marks.
I get the dislike of biro’s, but, given the choice, however much the aesthetic of nib and ink appeals, I find rollerballs my preference. I write notes as I listen to records I am reviewing, it so much easier than typing.
In our local supermarket you can buy a rollerball/ ballpoint pen that takes standard ink cartridges (and potentially a filler) for less than 10 Euros. Never needs to be thrown away like a regular Bic does.
Usually black, sometimes blue if I can’t find a black pen. Any other colour is an extravagance use by those artistic types
After making my throwaway comment, I was idly thinking…..
I seem to remember at school it was always blue pens that were used, never black. How did blue ink come to be so prevalent – I would think that all printed media (newspapers, etc) have always used black type and most “proper writing” (i.e quils, fountain pens, calligraphy) always seem to be black ink. How did blue ballpoint / roller ball / etc pens become so ubiquitous?
Related to this: I mentioned J Herbin’s Bleu Myosotis ink further up. Apparently, when the French school system still used scratchy dip pens and ink wells, this colour was the standard ink for all the state schools.
Will there be a blotting paper thread too?
Calling all the Molesworths and Merry Pranksters ‘out there’.
Especially for you @dai.
https://www.hamiltonpens.com/collections/blotters/products/esterbrook-blotting-paper
This is what I had to use in my last job as a wedding registrar.
Diamine Registrar`s Ink is a permanent archival blue-black iron gall ink which can be used in fountain pens. Do not use in valuable pens and regular flushing out is recommended . It is acidic, which could damage steel nibs. Use with caution, and at your own risk.
A job for a dip pen? Or a quill??
A fountain pen, though a quill could have been fun.
A sudden rush of memory has me mindful of stating at prep school, inkwell in the desk and, if not a quill, certainly no more than a nib on a stick, for dipping and writing.
Oh yes. It’s all coming back to me now. The ultra-basic “nib-on-a-stick” pens that were offered to us were these:
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/221594-the-platignum-school-cartridge-pen/
Oho! Someone else peruses Fountain Pen Network…
Lawks, no, nothing that dangled or useful. These were nibs attached to a solid rod. You dipped and used as much ink as you could get on the nib, and then dipped again.
Which reminds me of the first time I got ‘slippered’ at Prep School pouring ink into the desk inkwell where there wasn’t an ink container. Head refused to accept stupidity in my mitigation. On the plus side, became v good mates with boy who told on me. He was so apologetic he waited for me after school.
Can anyone smarter than me tell me why ink applied with a brush is waterproof, yet the same brand of ink from the same bottle applied through a fountain pen smudges and runs when watercolour is brushed over it?
If it’s the same ink from the same bottle it shouldn’t make any difference if you’re using a pen or a brush. It’s either formulated to be waterproof or it isn’t. I honestly cannot think of a single reason why what you are experiencing should occur. I use matt acrylics if I want to layer paint without it smudging or on surface mixing and I can overpaint matt acrylic with a waterbased paint with impunity as it doesn’t move a jot. My main problem with many inks is the lack of light fastness rather than their stability.
Hi Peter – thanks for responding.
I would’ve thought the same, but it does! I tested it with three different bottles of ink and two different pens. Water colour over brush – black lines hold, colour remains clean. Over pen(s) – smudge city!
It’s a headscratcher and I’m going to have to try that for myself now if I can as I really cannot fathom it. What make of inks are you using?
Liquitex and Zig sumi ink.
I’m familiar with Liquitex, I use their acrylic gouache from time to time but not the ink for more than a few years. I’m not familiar with Zig sumi as I’ve never used it. I shall try some of the acrylic inks I have to hand with a brush and a dip pen and see what occurs.
I think the dip pen works like the brush – I couldn’t find mine, so drew with a skewer and that was fine. I know this makes no sense, but I’ve got six or more sketchbook pages to back me up!
Oh I believe you. Odd stuff occurs. I think of these oddities as happy accidents and think of how I can use them to my advantage.
If the dip pen doesn’t exhibit this mysterious characteristic then thickness of line and concentration of the ink can be eliminated as a solution. That’s was my first and so far only thought. It’s a puzzler. I assume the same paper/board/card is being used?
It is, yes. Seawhite sketchbook – 140gsm ‘all media, acid free’.
That’s another variable dismissed. I’ve tried to replicate your problem with the tools I have to hand and found the same issue which leaves me nonplussed. I used the same substrate a slightly heavier mixed media paper than yours and tried using a dip pen and a fountain pen with a bent nib in place to give me greater flexibility of line thickness. For brushes I employed a 1/2 inch flat, a No. 6 round and a very fine rigger for line work. I used a Liquitex ink and an Acrylic Ink from Windsor & Newton. I genuinely can’t explain this phenomenon. Logically this shouldn’t happen. The media should be waterproof and stable when fully dry or not irrespective of what means are employed to place it on the substrate. All I can advise is to either utilise it as a paint effect when it will be helpful or employ different paint media.
Is it possible that the ink from the pen is a thicker layer as some of the ink is soaked into the paper and the rest sits on top and dries? Whereas a brush would mean all of the ink is soaked into the paper. The dried but not soaked in ink will allow the water to mix in a way that the paer soaked stuff won’t is my theory.
If you blot the pen ink, does that improve it’s waterproofness?
That’s akin to what I was thinking when I mentioned thickness of line and concentration of the ink. Drying time would also be dictated by ambient room temperature, the chemical composition of the ink and the type of paper used. The first thing I thought was that the ink wasn’t completely dry but I made some test swatches and left them overnight to ensure they had completely gone off before seeing how they would react to freshly applied ink of the same make and as far as can be ascertained the same chemical composition. Blotting the ink would indeed speed up the drying time but it would also decrease the pigment saturation which wouldn’t be ideal if a dense pigment coverage is required.
All in all I’d recommend experimenting with different media or incorporating the effect into the work. I used to work a lot with inks many years ago but stopped using them as primary media mostly due to there lack of stability particularly in regard to lightfastness. They fade out quite rapidly when exposed to light which makes them unsuitable for work that’s going to be displayed. Fine for work that’s going to print or sketchbook work though.
Cheers Peter (and Lee). It’s a mystery. The ink is thicker when applied by brush, I think, it takes longer to dry – that’s the only difference I can see.
I’ll stick to using Zebra fude pens for drawing with if I’m going to add colour. It’s a shame as I do like the wonky irregularity my fountain pen gives me.
What a great thread.
I’ll have to investigate some of these inks – I have a collection of Kaweco, Dupont, Pelikan and Waterman cartridges at home.
I am completely sold on Kaweco at present and use no other and I like that they are so well balanced, write well and require minimal maintenance. They are stylish without being too obvious and the boxes are great as well. I used to like Lamy but have gone off them completely. I discovered Sailor, a Japanese brand last year and have one of their calligraphy pens which are a complete indulgence, useless for everyday notetaking but it’s just a great thrill using it. Not sure if they do fountain pens, but Caran d’Ache write beautifully as well.
No doubt there are others here who love a good stationery shop – came across a great one in Amsterdam last year (forget the name, pretty famous apparently) and the staff were not in the least bit bothered that I tried as many pens as possible. We seem not to have them here in the U.K although there’s a nice one near Leicester Square in that London which is so magnificently overpriced it’s laughable.
I do love a good stationery shop – sadly, I don’t have one near which doesn’t involve crossing a stretch of water! So I usually buy from Cult Pens online – they’re pretty good.
I like them too. Does anyone remember penisland.com?
I started using fountain pens about 15 years ago when I realised that my handwriting had degenerated so far that it resembled a GP’s notepad. A fountain pen makes me write more slowly, and hence, more legibly. It also makes writing more pleasurable. I started with a Parker (which was old by then, as I think it was a graduation present!), and then bought a Lamy, which is still a joy to use.
I don’t mind the faff of filling up the ink – all part of the fun!
A colleague decided that it would be good to have a fountain pen, having seen that I could now produce legible notes, so his wife bought him a Mont Blanc for his birthday. He left it behind, on a train, within the week. He then had to buy a replacement, secretly, and also bought a Lamy like mine, so that she could see him with the Mont Blanc, but he used the Lamy as he could replace that for £15.
I bought several Platinum Preppy pens (fine and medium), and bought converters for them all. They are great fun, and less than a tenner.
My most recent purchase was a green Kaweco Sport which is a joy to write with.
I use several inks, depending on mood – Pelikan Brilliant Black is very good, and I also like the Cross Black. Most recent ink is the Lamy which comes in a lovely bottle, shaped so that there is a well in the bottom for easy fill. It also has a strip of blotting paper to limit the inky fingers.
My company has been trying to cut back on spending, so my favourite Black’n’Red notebooks are now scarce – the last set they bought were much rougher to write on – recycled paper. Boo!
For drawing, I like the Zig Sumi Ink 60. That, with a speedball nib, on a nice Pith notebook – joyous.