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What would a Legend have to do to lose your respect?

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Johnny Concheroo mentioned how embarrassing Carole King has been recently. “Strewth! Kingo bloody dances like a joey caught in a cement mixer” he said (something like that, anyway).

My immediate thought was – “yes…but it’s Carole King.”

Aretha Franklin could cover herself in custard and cavort naked on stage with Mr Blobby, which would be awful for everyone…but…it’s Aretha Franklin.

I had this thought recently when I saw Elton John perform and he’s getting very ropey, let’s face it. Yet the adoring audience were thrilled with him.

As he gets older, what if someone else plays the piano and someone else sings most of the lyrics?
He could just sing the chorus perhaps? Get everyone to clap along. Between-song banter to the fore rather than performing.

Michael Jackson’s London shows were only going to feature him on stage for about 40 minutes – with dancers picking up the slack. Monty Python’s comeback shows had extended song and dance numbers and filmed pieces.

Where will it end?

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Comments

  1. I’d like to nominate Bob Dylan.

    Bob has been a major part of my life for over 50 years. Other than perhaps the Beatles, nobody in music has meant more to me. I even named one of my kids after him for chrissakes. And yet over the last couple of decades Dylan has slowly and inexorably lost the plot*. His voice is thoroughly shot, he no longer plays the guitar (unforgiveable for an erstwhile folk singer with a huge back catalogue of acoustic songs, I would have thought) and his recent albums are all-but unlistenable.

    I didn’t even buy his latest CD of Sinatra MOR covers, despite seeing it marked down to the equivalent of five quid recently. It was the first time since 1965 that I haven’t bought a new Dylan album more or less on the week of release.

    And yet, the worse Bob gets the more the dad rock mags salute his eccentric genius and the more he is lauded by a certain section of his fans. As our US cousins are often heard to say, go figure.

    50 years down the track it’s time, for me at least, to finally admit that the love affair is over.

    *for me the rot set in with 1997’s Grammy winning Time Out Of Mind album. I’d contend you can pretty much draw a line under Dylan’s career at that point.

    • I haven’t bought a Dylan album since Street Legal, although obviously since the advent of Spotify I’ve become familiar with quite a lot of his later stuff. I do actually quite like his Sinatra MOR stuff.

      I thought he couldn’t play the guitar any more because of arthritis? Or is that someone else?

      • Yes, I think you’re right about the arthritis.

        So he can’t play guitar and can barely sing. You have to ask, what’s point of him anymore?

        People keep trotting out the old chestnut about how the old blues guys kept going into old age. Perhaps so, but I seem to remember Muddy Waters could still deliver the goods in his dotage.

        This is a purely personal point of view you understand. I don’t want to turn BC’s thread into a Dylan shitfight.

      • Wow. I so completely disagree. I couldn’t stand his 80s voice. Particularly live. But I actually give Love and Theft and Modern Times to non Dylan people as a way into Dylan. I love his singing on both those albums. But, I must admit, his live work fills me with dread and every you tube clip of him makes me feel awkward. I quite like the two American standards albums though I wouldn’t really listen to them before about 10 other singers. So maybe I only partially disagree. But – Mike – I think that the post 97 albums are far beyond Street Legal.

      • Dylan is the one major musical love of yore that I have completely lost interest in these days artistically speaking, and who I very rarely play at all. Give me Van on cruise mode any day rather than current era Dylan. Songbook standards is the last refuge of the creatively bereft,

    • Ditto Neil Young. The indulgent description of ornery old curmudgeon just doesn’t cut it any more when album after album is crap. Exhibit A – Americana, exhibit B that awful thing he recorded in a phone box, exhibits C to Z The Monsanto Years, Storytone, the Earth album with croaking frogs, twittering birds and other farmyard impressions. The self-indulgent autobiographies, the Toblerone iPod. Oh yes, I’ve bought them all and then wrung my hands in despair afterwards (not the iPod thingy – won’t play CDs). The last really decent album was Sleeps With Angels, which was back in 1994. Ever since, the decline has been long (longer than quite a lot of artists’ entire careers) and inexorable. Time to stop Neil, and put all your energies into Archives volumes 2 and 3 before one of us dies.

    • Bob’s major cultural contribution in this century has been the fantastic Theme Time Radio Hour. Although I was disappointed to learn that he didn’t write the monologues/links, his delivery truly makes the whole project his own (c. Louis Walsh).
      Having said that, I genuinely love his Christmas album; the festive nights fly by, I can tell you!

      • Yes, TTRH is truly magical. I have all 101 episodes on my iPod and never get tired of them. Bob’s delivery is great, especially his little jokes. “A doctor is the only man I know who can tell your wife to take off her clothes and then send YOU the bill”. (Episode #69, “Doctors”)

  4. Ian Anderson no longer standing on one leg. No seriously folks, Ian’s voice went years ago and he has employed the services of a younger vocalist for many of his unreachable parts (ooer missus!).

    The recent recordings have been designed to accommodate the vocal range he has now and he still retains his songwriting prowess. The struggle comes with the older and more popular material. He will probably keep going for many years to come or until his wife let’s him back on the farm.

    • Saw him last year (and probably seeing him at New Day Festival next weekend). I quite enjoyed the set to be honest. The whistle playing was pretty good and it was a nice tight band around him. I think he’s got a few more years yet performing.

  5. Hmmm, a big part of the gig-going experience (that most of us tend not to admit) is simply being in the same postcode as a “Legend” for a few hours, regardless of their contribution to the gig itself… that first occurred to me when seeing Brian Wilson do “Pet Sounds” the first time around at the Festival Hall in 2002, where he was clearly not playing his keyboard, his vocals were way down in the mix, and more often as not during the night, he was pretty much away with the fairies… and yet, it’s one of my favourite-ever gigs, go figure…

    • As most of the best BB stuff was done by session musicians, and he’s acting as more of a curator with occasional sung parts – having not even been I’m the touring band when they were any good (pre-mid 70s Imv), its not a million miles off what how many composers would be heard maybe. Seeing Brian recently, with the Womdermints doing pitch perfect music and Àl Jardine and Blondie Chaplin guesting was, for me, extraordinary.

  7. ‘We had a Dylan mix tape on repeat during the birthing process’.

    A bit wordy, but this must surely be THE definitive Afterword T shirt. I’m sure Mr Area could fit this into an XL design.

    But really. Dylan. At birth? Poor little sod. Late was it?

  9. It was March 1985 and the two current LPs were Infidels and Real Live. So there would have been nothing later than that. Otherwise I imagine it would have been a fairly predictable cross-section of big songs with nothing to frighten the horses. Or the midwife.

  10. Well in answer to the OP it’s losing what made them magical to start with. Three notable examples – a sadly away with the fairies Peter Green in the early 80s…horrible, unsympathetic band, unable to play….heartbreaking. Walked out. A reformed Lynyrd Skynyrd, one of my teenage bands….two original members….overblown and crass without and of the swing and joy of the original band….heartbroken, walked out. Then Johnny Winter, again early 90s. Not helped by the support, a young and on fire Walter Trout who was brilliant…Johnny, clearly unwell, barely able to play and, worse, sporting a vile headstockless Steinberger guitar. Heartbroken, walked out.

    I’ve seen Ian Anderson twice recently and the vocals thing is beginning to bother me. His flute playing is better than ever and the new material is great, but in gigs he sticks to the same old Tull Greatest Hits material and, honestly, can’t sing it any more. After the last time I did toy with the idea I might pass next time. I can’t afford to lose another hero.

    • For me the saddest thing about the many attempts to relaunch Peter Green’s career is the deception involved. He can barely play within 10% of his 60s peak, yet his shows have been endlessly promoted as the return of the guitar legend. And people have bought into that deception, believing they are seeing the man as he was in 1968/69. It’s little short of a freak show with both Green and the audience being exploited.

      • Oh I know, it was embarrassing, PG would vaguely pluck a note or two and at the end the other horrible guitarist would point at him and bellow “the genius” into the mic before taking long widdly solos with evident glee at playing in front of a big audience. Cynical exploitation by people who really didn’t care about him at all.

      • Have an Up for that comment JC.

        The return of Peter Green live was a sad sight. If I’m going to be charitable, I might describe it as a Lap of Honour. A chance for fans to show some love for what he was. But I think you are nearer the mark with freak show.

      • TBH I had a long gap and saw him live for the first time in ages on the Aqualung anniversary tour and was shocked at how his voice has suffered. I suppose because the rest of the music is still brilliant live, and as I say the flute is fab. If someone who is essentially a singer can’t sing any more that’s it, but Tull is more than Ian’s voice (though it’s a huge gap admittedly).

        • It’s the songs, the delivery, the flute…and Martin Barre? When you’re down to one core member, it may be time to invoke the Sharon Osborne rule and rescue the rights back for the greater good. I’d love to see any 3 of John Evans, Martin, Jeffrey Hammond-Hammond and Barrie Barlow back in the ranks personally. I can dream…

            • Just watched a couple of videos. Great player… for a post-Van Halen, distortion, noodler maybe. But am I alone in thinking that Tull were at their best before Martin put his Les Paul down and when he had overdrive and not distortion. Light and shade, no finger tapping, some great, almost accidentally brilliant playing, making a virtue of his limitations. Mr Opahle answers a question I probably wouldn’t have asked.

              • I saw Jethro Tull with Mick Abrahams on guitar at a club in Chesterfield on Nov 13, 1968. It was two weeks after their debut LP This Was was released. That first album is still a special favourite of mine.

                Checking the dates it was 10 days before the Led Zeppelin show I wrote about elsewhere on the blog.

                • You definitely win 🙂

                  I only got to hear TW a lot later than other stuff, so it’s always been a curio for me. What captivates me about ‘ver Tull is pretty much everything IA tried to do outside of the MA constraints.

              • I agree Bart, MB used to use a Les Paul Junior with a Marshall (e.g. His sound on Agualung/Minstrel) which I liked best. Once he got into Hamers and Soldanos he was a bit too distorted for me, but his playing is still brilliant of course. Great side man.

                • Agree on both counts Twang. Give me an overdriven amp over distortion any day and the evidence with MB is clear to hear. You’re reduced to monotonous also-ran noodling. MB should have stuck to what made him great, as Steve Howe and Dave Gilmour managed to do.

          • I saw Ian Anderson a year or two ago and had a great time, but I hadn’t been to a show in 15 years before that so it was nice to visit the church of Tull again. He had a nice album to promote as well. I’ll be skipping the current tour though… his voice has been shot for decades, but now even he is facing up to reality and patching up the shows with guest singers ( I mean other than that Ryan Odonnell fella)
            To my ears the guest vocals are nails on a chalkboard. They don’t fit the songs at all.
            Thanks youtube! You’ve saved me from a painful night out.

  11. Maybe the problem is that expectation demands play some old in a live setting and give us some new in recordings. So you bust your brain trying to retrieve some fading inspiration which, then, no-one wants to hear. Add that to ageing voices and/or arthritic fingers and you’re fucked unless you can completely reinvent for later life: Johnny Cash and Leonard Cohen come to mind.

    • and this is the dilemma, the old ones have either lost thier creative juice, worn out their voices or got arthritic fingers.

      The obvious thing is to latch onto the next generation with all these elements in full flow, but then you are losing what you love and sidling up to the next generation.

      I know the answer is who cares? If it is good it is good and just be receptive, but at some of these gigs I feel out of place.

    • Cash and Cohen had an advantage over most, regarding self-reinvention, in that their voices were pretty limited right from the start so the change was a bit less apparent.
      Johnny Cash did it by judiciously selecting new and different material to suit his changing voice.
      Leonard Cohen by turning up the charm to 11 and becoming a skillful live showman, fronting a truly top-notch touring band.

        • Excellent comment Mike.

          Len is probably as good now as he has ever been. Seen him twice and both gigs were a joy.

          I must confess to a certain fondness for Dylan’s recent activities. He just keeps going his own quirky way and doing stuff he wants to do and seems to be really enjoying himself.

          A friend took his daughters to see him in Stockholm recently and said that he put on a great show. He even smiled. Once!

            • I first saw Leonard at the IOW festival in 1970 and the strongest memory is the bizarre belted safari jacket affair he was wearing. Musically it was nothing to write home about despite Bob Johnson (“is it rolling Bob?”) and Charlie Daniels (The Devil Went Down to Georgia) being part of his band.

              Much better was the time I saw Leonard at a football stadium 4 or 5 years ago. As you said above, he has a great stage presence these days and the band were wonderful.

              • I was at the IOW in ’70 and have no memory of ol’ Len’s performance whatsoever. That’s not really saying much, mind you because I sadly have no memory of Miles Davis’ set either. Too busy steering clear of the brown acid.

                • I tend to get the 1969 and 1970 festivals mixed up. The Who and Free were on both years so it all becomes a bit confusing.

                  I had little idea who Miles Davis was in 1970 so I would have given him a miss.

                  At the 1970 festival the crowd were allowed to sleep in the fenced-off concert area field after the last act had finished their set on Saturday night. The next morning we were all unceremoniously turfed out because “Jethro Tull were about to soundcheck and didn’t want any fans to watch them”. That turned out to be untrue and Ian Anderson was mightily pissed off that he’d been made to look like the villain of the piece.

                  • I was at the ’69 one also but can only remember the Who and the Bonzos with any clarity.

                    At the ’70 IOW I recall going in and out of the big inflatable cinema tent, where the majority of the acid was being dealt.
                    It was held up by the internal air pressure and had 2 airlocks, in and out. The entrance was where you paid for your acid and the exit was where you collected it.

  12. I’m a big fan of Tom Waits, but was really disappointed when he was on the final Letterman show and appeared to have had some (fairly poor) plastic surgery. I’m not bothered by anyone doing whatever they like to their own appearance, but some notion of his “authenticity” changed for me. Here’s the evidence – please tell me I’m wrong so he can go back up in my estimations.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIC4pfnoNhI

        • Really enjoyed the interplay between the three of them, though the singing voice was definitely the tired ghost of that beautiful rusty roar of yesteryear.

          As for ‘some work’, I’d say he’s definitely had his eyes moved closer together. It’s an unusual and unnecessary procedure but, hey, it’s Tom…

    • TW (a taped, for real, phone message) is in the new documentary film JT Leroy.

      Let’s just say the famously elusive and brand conscious Tom would probably rather that he wasn’t in this one …

  13. When one veteran Canadian singer-songwriter know for his wisdom and integrity over many years turned up for a show in Belfast a year or two back with an entourage of three or four hangers on plus a new wife about 40 years his junior and a one or two year old kid, my estimation sank to an irretrievable level. Someone who had seemed to be – who was – an artist of real specialness in the 70s had become just another pop pensioner fathering children at a stupid age.

    My opinion of Kelsey Grammer plummeted when I read a newspaper interview recently wherein he was talking up Trump and defending crackpot backwoods militias. The fact that he too has had several much younger wives also added to the patheticness. Frasier – wonderful; Kelsey – git.

  14. All of the above; Dylan was rough at the Hyde Park ’96 show and I decided to step back; Ian Anderson’s voice was rough in 2006 (same as); Yes have lost their snap for 20 years (though i still sometimes see them and enjoy it if I do); Dweezil Zappa isn’t his dad, and does the same basic gig each time; it makes me wonder why I DO go to gigs still, sometimes. It’s because someone puts on a show which works (e.g., Steven Wilson, King Crimson) and this causes spontaneous recovery. This is what positive reinforcement is about; a good gig makes up for 10 functional ones.

    • Saw Adam Buxton’s remarkable Bowie tribute show last night (catch it if you can) and he opened it with the line “Well, it’s been six months now, and I have to say I’m really not enjoying Bowie’s new phase.”

  16. Surely the elephant in the Afterword room here is Elvis Costello. I was with him through the early years, the bearded years and the chat show years. Since then his voice on solo material has been getting on my bloody nerves. I could only get through about three songs from the recent live from Liverpool DVD.
    I could probably give him another chance with a rock ensemble behind him, but if he picked up the acoustic, I’d shout, Oi Costello, NO!!!!!!!!!!
    (Having lit blue touch paper I shall slide away whilst I still can)

    • Agreed.

      Having been a massive fan right from the start, I finally let go around Fukumofo, or Sugarcane and Something, when he seemed to just abandon himself fully to cracked shoutiness in fake Americanese.

      • OK, so, I saw Elvis and The Imposters just last week and he was great. I must have seen him around 20 times now and this was a good one. The Imposters were The Attractions, let’s just start calling them that now. 24 of the 27 songs performed were Attractions recordings. EC was in good form, the setlist shoved a load of the hits upfront, which was a good idea. His voice sounded great to me. He’s 62 in August and I didn’t notice once anything that had been tuned down to a different pitch. (Compared to the then 59-year old Robert Plant on the Celebration Day live recording). The last EC gigs I’d been at were two Irish solo Detour gigs in 2014 which were hard work. So, in short, you’re right Martin S, EC kicks ass with a rock combo behind him, namely The Attractions Redux.

        As for EC records, I still cannot stand Secret, Profane & Sugarcane. However I’d easily put 2010’s National Ransom in the EC top five.

        Although EC remains mercurial (and as a fan you sometimes wonder which EC you’re going to get) compare him at 62 to others at the same age (McCartney in 2004, Dylan in 2003, Neil Young in 2007) – overall I think EC has kept his bar remarkably high throughout his career.

        • Momofuku is probably the most traditional album EC has recorded in years. Was a fast, sound of a band in room affair akin in mood and feel to Blood & Chocolate with some bitter little songs of revenge and guilt. It’s one I return to more than SP&S (which also has its moments like All Time Doll & I Dreamed Of My Old Lover’) but Momofuku is bursting with energy and ideas. ‘Flutter & Wow’ has a wonderful melody, ‘Turpentine’ pulls no punches

          Looking back on all that stolen time
          Back when I was drinking turpentine
          Don’t blame me
          I only took you in
          It takes time to do the poisoning
          So let’s close the door on this and lock it

          And that’s all it will ever be
          Just an accident of chemistry

          you can draw yer own conclusions at who that is aimed at. But in equal measure ‘My Three Sons’ is a heartfelt, touching meditation on fatherhood and aging.

          Elvis doesn’t often just stick to one thing. Sometimes you may not like the new thing but it won’t last forever. He’s too busy not being boring.

  17. The only person that I followed, forgave, forgot and found knew respect for was Bowie.

    The passing of time, the living of moments. He lived life more than most. Exited gracefully

    All we can hope for.

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