I’ve noticed over a few threads that among some of our members there is a decided antipathy – if not hatred – of sport, either spectating or participating.
And I don’t get it.
I have always been interested in sport. I played rugby to a fairly decent level – at the cost of field hockey. I was an adequate cricketer. I refereed to a pretty decent standard (L5 in England). I like to think I am coordinated in most things save dancing.
But more than that. I think one of the reason I am who I am is because of sport. It taught me a lot of important life lessons. Leadership, and what that looks like when you’re getting beaten. Teamwork – rugby is a team of units that have to work seamlessly to succeed. As much as an introvert as I am, the ability to meet someone and get onside with them inside 30 seconds.
And that’s aside from the sheer enjoyment of the physical process of sport. Running hard, and pushing myself to keep going when it seems difficult. The endorphin rush.
I had crappy PE teachers – but they got crappy around lack of effort, not lack of accomplishment.
Some of the best relationships I’ve built and people I’ve met have been through sport.
I genuinely don’t understand what people have against it. Help me understand so I don’t become all judgey.
Sport, Sport, masculine sport.
Equips a young man for society.
Yes, sport turns out a jolly good sort.
It’s an odd boy who doesn’t like sport
Great idiots, er, minds, think alike.
You can be so competitive Moose. Honestly!
Antipathy?
Here?
Really?
Sports threads on here get plenty of enthusiasts.
Some people simply don’t like sport…. for an alternative to that, might I refer you to…. almost all of the rest of the internet.
I don’t do ‘competitive’ which pretty much rules out participating in sport for me, and I have absolutely no desire to experience teamwork, leadership, or to be got ‘onside’ with. It’s OK. It’s me, not you. I’ll be over here with a book if you need me.
I read that book faster thank you did.
Perhaps, but not very accurately š
Just hurry up and get dressed you lot, or it’ll be cold showers all round!
It’s also me, not Si! Yep, I don’t have a desire to feel one with a large crowd, I don’t want to be a leader or to be led. I’m just not a joiner-inner. I wasn’t a cub or a scout. I’m just not a team player in that GO TEAM! kind of way. People in numbers are draining, not energising, to me.
The two things aren’t mutually exclusive though, are they? Yeah, I do a lot of sport, but Sharon gets frustrated with the amount of time/money devoted to reading…
Did sport ever make you feel like shit?
Was it used by adults to make you feel worthless?
Did you find it a waste of your valuable time?
Did it teach you the lessons of selfishness and exclusivity?
Has it excluded you from the conversations of your friends and workmates?
Has it been a constant annoyance like a buzzing fly in your ear all your life?
PE teachers were / are cunts only interested in excellence not commitment
If you got anti sport problem I got news for you son
I got 99 fucks but for sport, not one
Not every Saturday, but today I watched rugby, football and snooker on TV. Then went for a game of golf, followed by taking in a simply epic win for Ottawa Senators in (ice) hockey playoffs triumphing 6-5 in over time after being 5-3 down (against New York Rangers).
And I wonder why my marriage broke down ….
I don’t hate sport. I just don’t give a toss about it. It doesn’t intrude into my life in any way at all. (I used to hate it, but life’s too short to hate something that doesn’t matter to me.)
On the rare occasions I’ve watched sport as an adult, it’s just made me unpleasantly tense and I’ve generally realised there are a million things I’d rather be doing – so I’ve gone off to do one of them instead.
I’m not at all fond of sports fans en masse, though. Coming out of the cinema tonight (Guardians 2: yes, its ace) a huge roar erupted from a pub down the way and they all spilled out onto the street. Didn’t enjoy that much at all; to the unbeliever it feels a bit threatening, all that.
I’ve been massively into keep fit and exercise for about 20 years now. I spend about four hours a day at the gym and pool (plus 30 minutes drive each way – how on earth people manage to fit in jobs is beyond me). But organised sport does nothing for me. Like Gatz above, competition, teamwork, leadership don’t interest me. And at school my PE teachers made their lessons all about competition, teamwork and leadership. They didn’t have a clue about how to develop an interest in physical exercise outside of that approach.
As for the spectator aspect, all the negatives (corruption, drug taking, greed, nationalism, tribalism, violence etc etc) that permeate organised sport make me wonder how anyone could be interested in it.
A bit of both.
I enjoy watching lots of different sports, but these days I rarely watch any (not enough time, and other interests are more important to me). As long as I don’t care who wins (almost always) it’s pure joy – but I don’t like it when it’s National teams and I have to be nervous about my nation’s results and sit with a knot in my stomach until the final signal (although if they do lose I really don’t care for longer than a minute – it’s more the slim but unavoidable hope of them perhaps being able to win this time that’s the real stomach churner).
Same thing really when it came to participating myself – as long as it’s a bunch of people who are doing it for fun and doesn’t care who wins, it can be good fun. But in reality it’s almost always spoiled by those competitive nutters who are taking it way too serious. Also I’m not a team player at all and was only good at individual sports and games. Or rather: I can be a great team player, but theose competitive nutters aren’t, so I don’t want to be on teams with them.
And I have a problem with authorities, so any type of referee, judge or self-appointed rules master can turn me into an absolute nightmare… š
Oh, and every PE teacher I ever had at school were absolute Nazis, literally. Yes, I do mean literally.
I’m not a naturally sporty person and never have been. This isn’t helped by the fact that I moved schools a lot (due to parents career) and in a couple of those schools in the flatter, whiter areas of the UK being good at sports was the only thing that mattered to the kids there..they weren’t interested in anything other than Football or Rugby – so I became an outsider because of my lack of passion for Sport, which isn’t good for yr self esteem, pre-Teen – but that’s not the fault of “Sport”.
I’ve nothing against it – whatever floats yr boat. But you don’t need it for a career. In my day job I manage staff and work in a team and I’m capable of motivating myself and my colleagues – in spite of my total disinterest in Sport. I find common sense, empathy with other human beings, and giving people interesting and stimulating things to do works just fine.
The only time this is an issue in my life is when I get in a Taxi and get asked “see the match today mate?” or when I have to make small talk with “blokes” I don’t know.
I am from Glasgow where sport is a proxy for sectarian hatred. Celtic and Rangers played yesterday, my social media was a depressing place.
So yes, I hate sport. It gives morons an excuse to be total fucking cunts. Sport is boring, it is done by, half witted rapists and watched by violent bastards.
Nah, I don’t buy that. A moron can’t be a cunt, never mind a total fucking cunt, since being a cunt requires a level of judgement and evaluation well beyond your average moron.
They’re more than capable of being a fuckwit however. And they don’t need an excuse.
Sport is a combination of exercise and competition. I like the first, because it makes you feel good, but not the second. I run a lot but don’t race, don’t even time myself. I suspect a lot of us here were not much good at sport when it was forced upon us at school and have never quite got over that awful feeling of being the last one standing when they picked teams for football. That kind of social ostracism was painful back then. Although I found the hours that everyone spent running around getting muddy at lunchtime could be better spent talking to girls, which was a kind of competition in itself.
Rather than hate sport I just ignore it, apart from cricket which I love to play and watch with friends, more for the comradeship than the competition.
This. (Apart from the cricket part!)
Sport is like music in so many ways. It’s so personal.
It’s all about live performance for a start, and theatre.
I was hopeless at sport as a kid, but I love watching, and following
1. The All Blacks (as you do if you grew up in NZ)
2. Cricket – love the Ashes, watching any absorbing Test Match really, but realistically that will be one involving NZ or Australia. The recent Australia/India series was great to follow. Also I now have an English son-in-law so we’ll be going to the Ashes Test at the SCG in January, really looking forward to that
Anything else- couldn’t really give a fuck but I kind of keep up to date, eg enjoy watching Grand Slam tennis finals
Most boring sport for me
1. Sailing
2. Golf
And as for soccer/football – there’s just too much! EPL, FA Cup, European stuff – how the fuck can you keep up?
I love watching sports, mostly football, golf, althetics and tennis with occasional lapses into rugby š . I’m OK at football and played it on and off growing up. I lost touch with the playing side of it in my mid 30’s, and came back to it in my late 40’s via a friend (and getting sick of looking at my expaning stomach in the mirror). I love the feeling I get when a move or a pass or a shot comes off just like I pictured it in my head a second ago, it really is a wonderful thing. Feeling fit and losing fat are just great side benefits.
The social side of it never really grabbed me though. As noted above there are far too many wankers playing (never mind watching) football. Luckily the group my friend was part of had only a small proportion of those so we played different lineups each week (based on some spreadsheet of stats the organiaser maintained) of 5/6/7 a side and the occasional proper full-size game. I was playing an hour, twice a week, and loving it again, but four years ago I got an injury that is only just now allowing me to walk without pain. I face a fairly tough few months before I dare play again but I’d like to give it one final shot (SWIDT).
I love the way sport exemplifies in miniature the great parts of human nature, how it can teach valuable lessons you can use in all parts of your life. ON the other hand I have seen how it can beused in the wrong hands to divide and exclude. I guess you have to be “lucky” in your teachers / parents.
Serious question. What life lessons can sport teach you?
The importance of warming up before exercise.
The importance of correct hydration.
How to deploy elastic bandage to the best effect.
Where and where not to apply Deep Heat.
What military grade sweat smells like in large concentrations.
How long distance running promotes reflective thinking.
That most people in life can find one thing or another they can do well enough to enjoy.
That sometimes it’s just the doing of something that matters.
That time can be elastic.
Profound stuff š
You can learn all of these things from…. er… something else.
Main one is how to win and lose gracefully. Like in that Kipling poem what he wrote.
The value of teamwork – no less true for being obvious.
The value of persistence and “failing better”.
Just as many of us were put off sport, and in the worst cases exercise, by school, so many of us are put off words like ‘teamwork’ and ‘leadership’ by adult experience. It’s a truism that those who use them most actually demonstrate them least; it’s a perfect case of ‘show don’t tell’. Those who have true skills of teamwork and leadership never need to remind everyone else all the time.
Agreed but I don’t think saying “some people talk it but don’t walk it” is a valid argument against the value of doing sport, per se.
“I love the feeling I get when a move or a pass or a shot comes off just like I pictured it in my head a second ago, it really is a wonderful thing”.
That was it for me. It’s truly miraculous to construct patterns in your mind and then execute them physically – and the particular restrictions of a tennis court or the offside rule impose on you the need to find angles in real time within the limits of your physical abilities. When it comes off, it’s just the best feeling.
And then you turn on the tv and watch the sport’s supreme exponents find angles you couldn’t even dream of and produce the shot or the pass with staggering consistency under degrees of pressure you’ve never had to deal with.
And then you consider someone like Rivaldo (he’s a footballer, haterz) who would probably never have been able to have that feeling of being exceptional in any other walk of life, being able to puff out his chest with pride at what all his hard work and dedication, coupled with sporting genius, has brought him..
Although, granted, 95% of sport and sporting people are tedious and the extent to which big sport is in bed with the exceedingly nasty gambling industry is sick..
Most of what I feel about sport has been very well expressed already. I now try not to judge those who like sports, despite my negative experiences of sport and its fans over the decades but I don’t really buy all that teamwork and leadership stuff. I see athletes being in it for personal achievement and gain, no different to any other ambitious ladder climber and you can be a good “team player” without having ever been involved in sport, it’s about consideration for others . My kids both enjoy some sport but my son was bullied and ridiculed by his so called team mates for his lack of prowess at football. He went on to excell at trampolining and doesn’t carry any self esteem issues but I know it upset him at the time. The tribalism, bulllying and belittling of those less able is what I dislike most about sport, not to mention the mass hysteria of supporters. Apart from the physical benefits of I exercise, I see it as a massive negative and I can’t understand why anyone would spend any time watching it. It’s so dull!
Exercising in whatsoever form you deem fit, SWIDT, is probably a good idea in the maintenance of, um, life. Whether this is solitary walking, cycling, gym-ing, or running around throwing/kicking/hitting/catching balls with others is up to you. I like the former, or know I ought to but I don’t like the latter. My dog loves all that.
Watching it incessantly and talking about it, using it as a substitute for actually exercising, apart from partisan fighting and shouting isn’t. Fat blokes in so-called replica team strips are a step away from blackshirts to me.
“Applauds”
I have a deep mistrust of anyone shopping on a Saturday afternoon.
Not even for rare ’60 s records?
Do it in the morning.
I can still never tell if you’re joking.
Nope, joke free zone on this issue.
However …
“… take my mother-in-law.
No, go on, take her!”
Can I ask a question about boxing?
I come from a place of being generally sporty in a very mediocre way; reasonably good at school and played a few team sports. I like watching football and played as a child, although I dislike a lot about footballing culture. I exercise a lot and like moving around as much as possible.
Anyway: boxing.
I have a real hatred of boxing. I accept that other sports might be just as dangerous (rugby; repeated heading in football; long-term damage to athlete’s bodies etc. etc.) I know it can’t and won’t be banned.
There’s just something about boxing I hate. They are great athletes and I can see it’s a genuine skill/talent but I just don’t understand how it’s possible to watch two people, men or women, beating the shite out of each other.
On my timeline at the moment there are quite a few people looking forward to the big fight (last night?) and I don’t get it.
Boxing fans, please enlighten me. Genuine question, not snarking. Competiton? Some weird blood lust? Atmosphere at the ring?
See also cock fighting, bear baiting, hare coursing, fox hunting, motorway rubber-necking etc etc.
My dad, and his dad before him were boxing fans and boxed a little themselves. They even boxed at home – the table would be moved out of the dining room and they’d spar. He always stressed that “boxing” and “fighting” were different things, and that boxing was (to him) an art form. It wasn’t about violence or damage, it was outwitting and out maneuvering your opponent. And he was a distinctly non violent easy going bloke.
Boxing doesn’t do much for me – I enjoy the Olympic 3 round bouts, as the pro stuff seems over done. What does disturb me is the MMA / cage fighting. Unpleasant in every way.
Howard, the strangest thing
Has happened lately
When I take a good swing
And all my dreams
They pivot and slip
I drop my fists and they’re back
Boxing is a difficult one to defend.
I can sort of see a point in wanting to do it. The gladiatorial thing. Pitting your skills against those of another, one on one. The required self-discipline etc.
Those who would never even consider getting into the ring getting their rocks off by watching boxing bouts is another thing entirely. It’s a bit too close to bear-baiting or public floggings for comfort, really.
People cite it as a safe outlet for the spectators’ aggressive tendencies, but really that level of aggression shouldn’t -be- there in the first place.
Boxing in it’s purest amateur form is something that is a positive thing for many of the boys and now girls that take part. In many communities it has proven to be a great educator and improver for those from less fortunate backgrounds, real evidence supports this. Control of aggression, channelling of anger, discipline and fitness. It’s an art form I am desperate to try but fear of getting hurt has stopped me thus far along with my comfortable background completely not preparing me for it.
The professional sport is different, it’s brutal, causes brain damage and leaves many worse off than when they started. However if you believe the stories from those professionals, successful or otherwise, it gave them hope of a better future. It gave them the discipline and structure I mentioned above and the chance of earning a good living. For every Anthony Joshua there are a hundred also rans shot to pieces before their 30th birthday. Ultimately for all of them it was a choice, not many stories of young men or women being forced to box.
I hope and pray that the build up to Saturdays fight is now the norm, the WWE style trash talk of recent fights does the sport no justice and makes the sport a joke which it most certainly is not. I love boxing for the rawness, the honesty, the bravery and the skill. It is like no other and the governing bodies have a duty to make it as safe as it can be and make sure it doesn’t descend into parody or a circus. A fight like Joshua v Klitschko is the standard that all in boxing should be trying for. Fairly matched for fair reward it really is sport like nothing else.
Thanks for the replies. I think I understand the appeal to participate a bit more now.
The control and channelling of aggression I kind of get: I roughhouse a lot with my son (he loves it) and I do a bit of non-contact kickboxing. Obviously those activities are in no way comparable but they do have the function of blowing off a bit of steam in a relatively safe way which I seem to need to do (and I accept that not everyone does).
I am a sport hater, but boxing, oddly enough, I can tolerate. Mainly (I admit) because it’s a sport which has been written about very well, people like Norman Mailer and Gay Talese have done some really good pieces on boxing.
But genuinely, boxing, at it’s best, is like ballet. Except you might get your face smashed in. Carlos Acosta and Darcy Bussell are pretty good but a broken jaw was never a risk there was it?
Maybe. But their ankles and toes get mangled.
Well, you did ask, Si.
I seem to be in the minority here in enjoying sport and always having done so. Not all sport – I’m not particularly interested in golf, rugby or cricket – but enough.
I think it’s probably a mistake to base your impressions of sport on what you experienced at school, because school sucks. If my only experience of books was what I learned in English Lit, I wouldn’t like reading either.
A lot of the sport I enjoy involves essentially being alone: surfing, running, weights. I still see it as competitive though, because the great secret of all sport is that you’re not really in competition with those around you, you’re in competition with yourself. Once you grasp that, it changes things from a potentially unhealthy dynamic to something a lot more uplifting and revealing. I’ve played in games of football that we won by a cricket score, and went home miserable, I’ve played in games where we took a hiding but actually played pretty well, and gone home happy. “The result is an imposter”.
I’d echo a lot of what’s been said above about the benefits of team sport, in particular. Done right, it does teach leadership, cooperation, how to communicate and how to be part of something bigger than yourself. Those are all valuable lessons.
I’ve played football all my life, but for the last 12 years it’s been a weekly game for the same five a side team. We’re pretty good, which helps, but we also have a positive ethos, developed over time. People don’t get on at each other, there’s no onus on star players and who scores the goals, we recognise that we’re as strong as our weakest link, and give the weaker players protection and proper encouragement. We play to our strengths and manage our weaknesses together. We share our victories and our defeats evenly.
Dozens of people have played for this team over the last decade and a bit. Strong friendships have been formed, some of them unlikely. In some cases, the team and the shared focus and social life that goes with it has been pretty instrumental in helping certain individuals turn their lives around a bit. In others, it’s been a welcome distraction – half an hour a week where everything else slips away, our minds empty and we all focus on one objective only. That team is one of the great loves of my life, sad as it may sound. It’s provided some incredible memories, and improved the lot of a load of people I really care about.
Somewhere along the way we learned that team sport is not about the gladiatorial thing. It’s not about hating your opponent. It’s about loving your team mates, and not wanting to let them down, and accordingly giving your all. It’s about knowing that they’ll do the same for you. It’s about trusting each other. We’ve beaten far better teams than ourselves because of this shared knowledge. For all that sport may have its negatives (like anything else), that strikes me as a beautiful, beautiful thing.
Likewise, I would counsel against closing your mind to stuff. I’ve always loathed cricket. It bores the crap out of me, and when I was a kid it always marked the end of football season, so I hated it. Last summer a good pal at work told me that he was organising a cricket match and was desperately short of players. After a bit of arm twisting, I agreed to stand in. You know what? I had a brilliant time – it was a great afternoon. Sometimes it’s good to challenge our own prejudices, and you can miss a good time based on bad experiences you may have had 20-30 years ago.
Ultimately, these things are a matter of taste – they’re not for everyone. What I would say is that I see at least a comparable level of aggression, macho posturing and sneering on this site as I generally see when playing football. These things aren’t exclusive to sport. You can make anything a massive ball ache if you come to it with the wrong attitude, and there’s good and bad in everything.
OOAA
Respect. Five a side on Astroturf – my idea of hell.
Got asked to dep for a missing player once and discovered after 15 minutes that my calf muscles were actually made of Plasticene that had been put away at the back of the cupboard and unused for a decade. Not only that, but my nervous system seemed to have lost all contact with my musculo-skeletal infrastructure.
“Macho posturing”? “Macho”? Are you sure you mean this place?
I didn’t say it was well-earned.
Haha!
Great post. Like I’ve said above, I don’t hate sport: I just don’t personally get anything out of it. And you’re dead right that other forms of macho posturing are available – and often a bit nastier because of the added sense of moral superiority which real sport-loathers have over sport-lovers, as if hating it is a sign of cleverness and goodness, and loving it is a sign of being a violent knuckle-dragger.
(I recognise that, because I used to feel it myself. Some of the real arseholes at school were very sporty, but it wasn’t the sport that was the problem: it was the fact they were arseholes. On reflection there were at least as many total wankers in the orchestra as on the rugby team.)
I guess the only area I’d take issue with here is that, to an outsider, it seems like your attitude to sport re. togetherness vs. gladiatorial aggression isn’t particularly typical? My impression of large football crowds is that the motivating spirit often seems to be hate. But I’m perfectly prepared to accept that I just don’t understand the culture, and don’t really recognise what I’m seeing.
Oh, I don’t think it’s for everyone – but then, what is? Totally agree with what you’re saying here. I just thought I’d try to explain the positive experience I’ve had with it (one of them, at least). I’ve had bad ones too.
Completely agree about the machismo thing. I’ve always been slightly more nerd than jock, and I’ve seen far worse bullying and aggression in nerdspaces than in sport, particularly in adult life. People assume that because they’ve been bullied they can never be a bully. It doesn’t work that way – quite the opposite, in fact.
Watching football is slightly different, but again it’s ultimately what you make of it and who you choose to spend your time with. I’ve met some brilliant people watching Arsenal down the years, had some brilliant times. I’m not a fan of having a go at fans of other sides or rubbing their noses in it when they’ve lost – that stuff just leaves me cold. A lot of the shouting and stuff on matchdays is just panto now anyway. Been a long time since I’ve seen a proper dust up at a football match, whereas (as documented on here) last year I was at a Father John Misty gig that had to be stopped because of a fight. Arseholes will arsehole.
To be honest, the worst macho bullies right now appear to me to be Momentum supporters rather than sports fans.
Generally, there seems to be a lot less trouble at gigs these days than in the 70s when tribalism in music was the norm. Kids these days don’t seem to need to show their musical affiliation by wearing denim or shaving their heads, probably because they dip in and out of most genres rather than just listening to one. I’m afraid Retro’s comment about replica kit and Blackshirts struck a chord with me, possibly unfairly, but this is the image that football has for me. I generally ignore sport these days but large groups of people shouting in a bar sometimes make that difficult. (Before anyone says it, I’m not always in a position to go elsewhere if I’m working away and staying in a hotel unless I go to my room.)
Excellent, well reasoned posts from you and Bob.
Sport is a weird one because it can exemplify the best & worst in participants & watchers.
It’s also useful to separate ‘following’ sport – which is numerically mostly via TV these days, playing sport, or just doing sporty stuff.
I’d hazard that it’s the folowing that causes the most grief for people – the ‘ war by other means’ as Orwell put it & footy is way out front here as the biggest global sport. Numbskulls who would otherwise be attending torch lit night rallies ( & sometimes do as well) are naturally drawn to the crowds, noise, tribalism & undercurrant of violence that goes with football ( you don’t have to be a Freudian to see a goal as a sublimated ‘kill’) & inevitably this manifests itself with real conflict with depressing regularity – it’s too late to plead ‘it’s only a game’ when there’s been a fatal stabbing of a supporter somewhere in the world. The more this is hyped up to sell tyres , gambling products or whatever, the higher the chance of real conflict for those incapable of a sense of perspective & with often little else in their lives that feels as ‘real’.
It’s very different from participating though, which must stem from a basic joy at being competent or uncommonly skillful at a certain activity, be it football, tennis, swimming or whatever. Those who pursue it to high levels generally have an admirable dedication to self improvement, though there’s always the danger of mono- mania & no other interests at all. With the obscene rewards of football, its not hard to see why this would be a motivating factor – a mediocre professional player can easily become a milionaire these days. Footballers tend to be dull people if not actually thick, as their world is narrow & they aren’t interested in much else – obviously this is why those who are articulate or have read a couple of books are lauded & courted by the media.
Sporty pass times as Bingo mentions, seem to me to be the most healthy, physically & psychologically. The only activities that ever appealled to me were cycling, rowing, body boarding/ surfing & swimming. All of these it occurred to me were essentially solo pursuits where you pit yourself against the elements or yourself. It’s all in your head if you’re having a great time or are unbelievably shit on a given day. Nobody else will ever know if you’ve just smashed a personal best or caught the most exhilerating wave of your life or conquered an agonising climb in the rain. Those little moments are the bits that give me a glimpse into the positives of sporting endeavours & see perhaps what sportsmen & women feel but don’t or can’t articulate. It’s a milliion miles from jock locker room wanker culture, hooliganism or corporate logos – it taps into something very primal but exciting , akin to sex or the literal ecstasy of being lost in music.
And that bit, is a good thing, I feel.
I’ll be in Pseuds Corner if you need me.
The undercurrent of violence is rarely at football matches these days and the crowds, noise and tribalism is what makes attending football matches better than watching them on TV.
Sport – my take/view/experience (FWIIW).
Growing up I loved watching sport, any sport, it didn’t matter, but found myself enjoying it a lot less than I felt I ought to. The truth of it was, my Dad loved watching sport & I loved being in my Dads company when he watched it. As I got older & spent less time with my Dad (in care, boarding school & away a lot serving in the Royal Navy), I realised that actually I didn’t like watching sport that much.
I understand the teamwork/leadership thing, but of course, I found that serving in a warship helped develop a sense of teamwork far more than playing five a side a couple of nights a week.
Likewise leadership, doing something I didn’t want to do or getting a man (or woman) to do something they didn’t want to do taught me the value of leadership & that it is a nuanced thing with many different ways of achieving an objective/getting a job done.
Contrary to what some here may think, military leadership is not some psychotic drill sergeant screaming & swearing at someone & calling them an orrible cunt.
My own experiences of participating in sport have not really amounted to much over the years, but after many years of occasional circuit training on a ships flight deck, in my 30s, I started to take a bit more interest in jogging/running to the extent of completing the Gosport & Fareham marathon in 1994 & many half marathons & 10 mile road races.
Incidentally, My time in that marathon was 4 hours 32 minutes. I applied & was accepted for the 1995 london marathon & carried out a proper training schedule to the letter & was rewarded with a time of 4 hours 15 minutes – the extra effort gave such a paltry improvement in time that I have not attempted any more. (FWIIW, my best half marathon time was 1 hour 34 minutes). Twenty odd years ago I was running topside of 50 miles a week, but these days it’s a major effort to take the dog out.
These days I hardly watch any televised sport , & have to say I don’t miss it.
As ever, I find that what suits some people does not suit others – who would have thought it?
I’m the worst kind of despicable plastic football fan. As a kid I was put off by the stories of the Baby Squad, not to mention Hillsborough, Heysel and Bradford. Every week on TV: people having fights at football matches. Non merci.
But as a young adult I got into it. Scrapping the terraces helped, as did — blushes — reading Fever Pitch and When Saturday Comes. I started going along to Filbert Street, buying fanzines, calling myself a supporter. It’s waned terribly in the last 15 years or so (visits to Filbert Street: tons; visits to King Power Stadium: one) but for a while there, cut me I bled blue
Having said all that, I never really got into — or even understood — the technical aspect of it. Despite thirty or so years of watching football I’m hopelessly out of my depth in pub conversations, still couldn’t tell you anything about positions, rules or tactics. The crowd around me would be yelling about some ‘obvious’ infringement and I’d never know what they were on about.
But what I liked, and still do like, is the story aspect of following your team and by extension the sport. There’s a kind of ongoing narrative that I find really appealing. Being into football kind of leads you into other sports, because you’re interested in that area of the news, so you pick it up elsewhere as well. I know! What a wanker, eh?
I draw the line at the national side though.
The ‘technical tactics’ stuff is mostly bollocks Leicester, so never let yourself be overawed by pub bores who listen to too much Talksport & regurgitate the drivel.
99% of supporters know nothing of Cattenacio, Christmas Tree Formations, Midfield Diamonds or Back Threes – but the good news is they don’t care & would rather see their team ‘get stuck in’.
As a nipper I went to my first match in 1968 & to this day I mostly have no idea what I’m talking about. I’ve read about Totaal Votbal , Tor & Calcio, witnessed Tikka Taka, Gegenpresse & conceding counter attacking but in the end the game is just the game.
We love the never-ending soap of it, the heroes & villains & sheer ridiculousness of a lot of it.
As a young idiot I saw quite a few hairy moments in the crowd, got terrified at away games & saw both despicable & lovely people in the ranks of my club’s supporters.
As slightly older person I was frequently embarrassed about being a football supporter generally & of my club in particular, but I also resented the assumption that you were a mindless goon because you dug it.
I found Fever Pitch a breath of fresh air – I can remember a couple of funny looks as I read it sitting in the Benches at Stamford Bridge before a game ( the cover had a kid in an Arsenal shirt on it) – it confirmed that it was a mostly benign passion & that you could like footy & not drag your knuckles.
I’m conflicted about missing the old rough edged aspects that I associate with a type of lost authenticity & the obvious improvements in safety, standards of play & a more family friendly vibe – I go more frequently to my adopted Cardiff City these days & still enjoy that crackle when the game commences & quite enjoy my codger status.
Fundamentally it’s still a simple game about chasing a bag of wind about & if that imparts a bit of pleasure, then I can’t see the harm.
Great post, JJ, thanks!
š!
Yep, history is all.
Tactics are what you turn to when they haven’t got polos.
Mixed feelings here too. I played rugby to a reasonable level, yet still remember vindictive and cretinous sports teachers with a shudder. I love watching international rugby and cricket, but loathe football, its culture and cultural ubiquity with a passion. I watch my kids playing competitive games and I can see the value, but when we have an away match and there are shouting parents and always the same kids sidelined and feeling useless, it brings out all the hatred and dread I ever felt as a gangly misfit teenager.
I think a line has to be drawn, too, between amateur (literally doing it for love) and professional sport. I never feel the level of joy watching the pros as I do when executing a great golf shot or a perfect through ball. nowhere near.
I can take or leave watching most matches nowadays, even my own teams’ sometimes. When the money comes in, the reason (my reason) for loving it goes.
It’s the noise of it that I can’t stand. The shouting from the terraces, but mainly the shouting of commentators as someone scores or drives a car round a corner.
I’ve tried many sports and been crap at virtually all of them. My PE teacher was an arse towards me because he saw me as a new prop forward and I wasn’t keen on the having my head smacked around in a scrum. There was no instruction on how to play – you either worked it out or got hurt. I was a slow learner.
I recognise that although I wasn’t any kind of “jock” I didn’t suffer to the same extent that some did – poor old Micky Pierce who would cry on the rugby pitch if you even threw the ball at him. Mocked by some teachers I get completely why it made sport such an unpleasant prospect for some
I’m a happy fan of most TV sport. I’ve attended quite a lot of football, motor racing and rugby over the years as well as played golf. and I in contrast to some of the above the only time I’ve been physically threatened was at motor racing (my request to lower an umbrella so that I could see something of the track resulted in a suggestion of where it would then be put, and an uncharacteristic physical response from me ).
I found the culture in golf more unpleasant than anywhere else, and stopped playing because of it. Endless jobsworth petty rules, places you could only play with the right connections, and more alpha males per square foot than any football ground I ever went to, As a shite player you are endlessly caught up by the better players who tee off after you, of which there’s always a few driving balls while you are in range or crowding you off greens and tees. I was always last pick on the soccer team at school but was the golf course that really invoked a sense of exclusion and bullying. I retired after being warned by a course owner for kicking away balls driven at me by an impatient group behind me. “Slow play” apparently.
Football can be rancorous but I’ve attended games over 30 years and seen just one punch thrown – and that missed. I recently had a night out in Leeds city center and it was a war zone after 9pm. I felt safer at the last West Ham v Millwall game I went to. Similar levels of bad language but far less fighting and vomit. Football is tribal but I’ve happily mixed on trains and tubes with opposition fans. I saw more incidents watching U16 rugby (between parents) than I ever encountered at football.
I was one of those kids who was put off sport by school. The comment that (I think) DFB makes above about teachers who were only interested in excellence was spot on. If you weren’t one of the dozen or so in the year that had some degree of innate talent then there was no interest in you. You just had to endure two hours of running round in light drizzle with no prospect of learning anything or of being improved in any way. When I got to university I was repulsed by the behaviour of the rugger buggers in the student bars. It’s partly as a result of all that, allied with a natural bent towards introversion and a preference / need for spending time on my own, that I’ve never been one for participating in sport, especially team sport. I have just started dabbling with running, but it’s totally from an exercise point of view – I’d not even thought of it as sport, although some of the posts above about it being a competition with yourself saw a little lightbulb go on over my head.
I do follow sport though, but not really in a competitive or tribal sense (although I would like to ask @LesterTheNightfly if he has seen the League Two table this morning, nyah nyah nyah). I get a bit of the same thing from following, say, the football league over a season that I do reading a long novel or watching a film or long form TV series. It’s the idea of narrative that gets me, the vicissitudes, the unexpected twists and turns leading to a conclusion. Test cricket is marvellous for this, the way you can dip in and out of a match at various points over five days and see it change and swing. That’s why cricket is my favourite sport by a mile, although that it’s also so aesthetically pleasing to watch is a factor.
Agree entirely on school, and Twang Jr now plays rugby and they’re still there – fat, red faced men bellowing at children. I loath them. I don’t mind watching a good footy game but rugby strikes me as being utterly pointless – “let’s play knock each other over”. Once a game someone gets to run. Can’t stand it, mind you having had the misfortune to have to play it at school I am eternally scarred, I accept. I like solo sports – cycling, swimming, used to be a useful squash player. To play, not watch that is.
It’s not for me. I simply find it dull and impenetrable. Though before I go any further I should declare I can be interested in a game of rugby or cricket – but only for about 30 minutes. After that the tedium sets in.
I do not ‘get’ most games. I watched 30 minutes of snooker yesterday and tried to guess which ball would be potted next. Didn’t guess right once. Football; if watching a televised premier league type game I couldn’t tell a good one from a bad one. They all look the same. Running about, crossing in front of the goal, scoring/missing. How is one game brilliant and one shit?
The punditry bemuses me. Dissections of games and game plans. There can never be one, surely. Once 22 adrenalin-filled blokes start kicking a ball around then the permutations of possibility must be infinite. ‘They need to play a long ball game’ Well, whatever that is, they might. But in the thick of it they kick and run in the same way kids do with a tennis ball.
And the puerile emotionalism. A millionaire mercenary kissing the badge on his shirt after scoring when you know he’ll be off to Real Munich or wherever at the wave of a chequebook.
I love sport.
Spent my youth watching Wolves at Molineux and around the country and my Saturday nights in the summer were the whole family going to the Speedway at Cradley Heath. Many a Sunday afternoon down at Worcester to watch the cricket. As I got older, became a Horse Racing follower and loved nothing more than ticking off another racecourse.
However, I have become increasingly a TV viewer, partly down to Geography, partly age and kids. Still in the past year would have been to see Ice Hockey (Belfast Giants), Rugby (Ulster) and Racing (Down Royal).
Most Saturday afternoons are “wasted” watching Racing or what other sport is on.
Ahh. Cradley Heathens. Bruce Penhall, Alan Grahame, Erik Gundersen, Bobby Schwartz. I was a Robins fan and we were routinely spanked by the Heathens. Glad to see they are back in business.
Bobby Schwartz?
One of the best riders Reading Racers had in the late 70s/early 80s.
Him and John Davies – a great pair.
There were only so many Speedway riders and teams, so it was probably inevitable that they would end up appearing for many teams.
Anders Michanek – another Cradley Heath / Reading cross-over
Boogaloo spent one season with them. I thought Dennis Sigalos did too but the internet says not. Michanek was before my time – I never saw him ride.
Swindon and Reading swapped plenty of riders too – Reading seemed to have them when they were in form ….
Fond memories of Easter weekends wondering if it would rain and watching the 3 way tournament between Oxford, Swindon and Reading. I spent more time getting covered in shale than I care to remember.
And there’s me thinking I was the only fan on the board. I started at Sheffield in 1972 and still go a couple of times a season even though I’m 125 miles away now. In the era you’re talking we had Shawn and Kelly Moran although my first speedway hero was Doug Wyer who I still see at Owlerton now. Both Reading and Cradley Heath now sadly closed though I did visit both with the Tigers.
Apart from the very occasional game of tennis I haven’t played competitive sport since school and Uni. I was never particularly good at them but always enjoyed playing. These days I cycle and run and love doing both for the exercise and the personal challenge. I can see the appeal of playing sports completely – the physical wellbeing, the cameraderie and the sheer enjoyment of the game.
I’m mainly an armchair spectator these days but still go to the occasional football match and usually enjoy it. It’s often more fun in the lower leagues – the skill is less good but there usually isn’t the poisonous atmosphere you can sometimes get in the Premier league. I’ll always watch atheletics, and love the Olympics; the big cycling tours, and sometimes tennis and occasionally golf. There are few sporting events or matches I feel I have to see – I don’t have sky and didn’t seek out a pub to see Spurs triumph this afternoon.
What’s the attraction? Well, it’s just another form of entertainment innit? Often it disappoints but occasionally is fantastically thrilling. Bit like many of favourite artists these days…..
This is the way I see it — which is why it’s so dismaying to see people fighting over it.
That Bob Paisley quote (“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it’s much more serious than that.”) has a lot to answer for.
The quote was from Bill Shankly (not something that Bob Paisley would ever have even comtemplated saying) – the fact that it was a tongue in cheek statement has been lost in the mists of time.
Several others (Gatz, DFB, Kid Dynamite, Gary, etc) have given the position that I would adopt, but it was interesting to work it out in my own words:
Fortunately I can ignore sport these days, which means my hatred of it is diminished these days, but it was definitely there when compulsory at school.
Sport is anything involving competition (including chess, which I also hated – loved the game, hated the winning/losing).
Physical education, which includes exercise as well as learning to understand the human body (and your own body in particular) was actually quite interesting and motivating when it happened. It was just chained to the obscene requirement to ‘do’ rugby/football/cricket/hockey/athletics – tedious binary winning/losing activities with all the joy of the unfit/uncoordinated/uninterested being socially Darwinised into inadequate beta status, standing around on the sidelines, watching better people get the focus of attention.
I actually liked exercising – running, sailing, cycling, swimming – still do – but those activities didn’t involve being measured against others and being found wanting. There is personal challenge, but it isn’t competition. It isn’t sport.
Watching sport – the competitive side is just boring, though I can understand enjoying the Olympics etc for the grace of human physical achievement when separated from the heated nationalism of medalling.
As for leadership/teamwork – these things can be better learned through activities that encourage cooperation for shared goals without trying to defeat somebody else.
Probably all the invective I have for sport has been said above, but nevertheless, i generally really dislike it. Thuggish, stupid, closet case (and not in a good way), “elitist”, narcissistic, casually unkind, unintellectual… I prefer arts, books, music, and the company of other sports-dodgers. If I want to prove my masculinity, sexual intercourse, DIY, and an interest in science and technoflash music will do (I know some women like these things). By all means do it if you like it, but don’t think less of me because I don’t, as it is because of this crap at school that I have such a derogatory view of it now. Folks trying to keep school going with the tribalism and thuggery further keep me away from it. I had a panic attack in a gym – the smell, the people, the god-awful music, the corporate fascism of it. IMHO, Sport and the awful way it is taught and valued is the biggest obstruction to people keeping healthy after fast food and the internet. Arsehole guys who think they are alpha males and their hangers on have put me off sport, and though there are probably plenty of good eggs on here who also like it, I have had as positive an experience of it as I have of religion, which I also see as a intelligence-reducing tribal activity used by The Enemy to hold people back from better understanding and relations with each other.
That pretty much sums it up for me too.
A considered response:
“Thuggish, stupid, closet case (and not in a good way), āelitistā, narcissistic, casually unkind, unintellectual” is actually bordering on offensive. I think if you asked any of my friends to use adjectives to describe me, none of those (especially the unintellectual) would apply.
Why the casual and lazy assumption that because people are keen on sport or do it really well they are somehow lacking in all these other areas? The very tactic you accuse the sporting folks of deploying against you are those you now deploy against me. Are we really holding fast to the idea of the Jock who is incapable of anything approaching humanity? I was, perhaps, lucky in my parents’ choice of school for me, in that the stereotypes you perpetrate weren’t allowed.
Am i still allowed to be here with all my thuggish anti-intellectual tendencies an’ all?
Don’t think it’s meant personally, Si.
Although, if you will insist on liking rugby ; )
Quite. The humiliation and shaming made by the sporty on the unsporting leads one to feel this, but, as they say, some of my best friends like or do sport. I don’t hold it against them. The cunts at school, or the arse at work who told a double doctorated over 100-scientific paper-published appraisee (me) that I lacked ambition and professional discipline as I wasn’t an “elite sportsman” like them: well, yes, you could say I hold them and their sweaty, boring, and banal exercise-oriented lifestyle with a little contempt. Slith, I’m sure you are nothing like this twat.
You sort of did ask, dude!
I don’t agree with the more vehement posts here, but you did ask!
Your friends describe you as intellectual? Bloody hell, where do I get friends like that? I have a PhD and still get spoken about as if my head zips up at the back.
My head does.
My name is Dr. Moose
Good morning. How are you? I’m Dr. Moose
I’m interested in things
I’m not a real doctor
But I am a real moose
I am an actual moose
I live like a moose
I don’t live like a moose, I live like a doctor.
– telling people to take their clothes off
– addressing everyone with an insufferable air of self-importance
– extremely heavy drinking
Oi, more of that and I’ll be checking your prostate.
Again.
Oh, that’s what that was all about!
Guess they’ve been reading your posts Moose.
Wot you mean? Me not no!
I said they wouldn’t describe me as un-intellectual. Slight, but important, difference. I think it goes with what they do actually call me, which is “geek”
Went into W.H. Smith on Friday to post a letter … because W.H. Smith is now the local post office, not the post office building next door, now standing empty, that was built for the purpose … gotta love 2017.
Anyway, found myself confronted with a truly horrendous “Top 100 books” display.
You’re free to read the other 99 if you wish, but, by a considerable distance, the most “intellectual” book of the 100 was this season’s Wisden Cricketers’ Almanac.
I have had sport in my life from a very young age. It has given me massive highlights and huge lows personally. I don’t really follow teams apart from England in all sports so never really felt that connection or obsession. I loved the boxing the other night and is a sport I am desperate to try, I signed up once and bottled it but it remains on the list. I have played every popular team sport and without doubt cricket wins. It teaches right and wrong and respect from day one. It is the cruellest of team games where you can be completely exposed as a batsmen out first ball, a bowler getting tonked or a fielder dropping a catch. If you have weakness cricket will find it and you have 2 choices, deal with it or play another sport where you can hide. My kids are better men for having played it.
It also has the gift of so many formats, if you’re not watching the IPL at the moment you are missing one of the greatest sporting events ever created, cricket but not as we know it. More people watched the IPL final last year than watched the Superbowl. As a cricket nut I’ll be glued to all the 5 day tests this summer, the 50 over games and I’ll be praying for good weather and big crowds at our T20 competition.
I like sport, I adore cricket my Sky subscription gives me 52 weeks of sun a year. West Indies v Pakistan anyone? Yes please……….
I, like you, love cricket and enjoy other sports but could live without them
Cricket is the sport to top all others.
I’m a huge cricket tragic – have been all my life. However, I’m not a fan of T20 generally, and I loathe and detest the IPL (and all other ‘franchised’ competitions). Just can’t bear the hype and artificiality (is that a word?) of the whole thing.
Bit boring, tho’, isn’t it?
No.
On the question of what lessons you can learn from sport, I think maybe resilience, perspective and the real way that teams work.
In the only sport I played competitively (league cricket) it was not unusual for someone to test your mind as well as your technique. A fast bowler might question your competence, your parentage and your sexuality before hurling a hard object at your head. You had two options; duck and smile, or hit it out of the park and smile. The smile should be the same intensity in either case. After the game you’d shake his hand and accept the pint he offered.
Some professional (and for all I know, amateur) footballers react differently to provocation, falling to the ground while beckoning their outraged teammates with one hand and waving imaginary reds at the ref with the other. The reason we never did that was not some macho bullshit dick-measuring standoff thing, it was because being part of a team meant you wanted to do your best for them, rather than make your teammates do their best for you.
Yes.
Sport isn’t the only way to learn teamwork, but I think it helps. The kids we have the least trouble onboarding and developing are the ones who played to a decent level at HS or College. They’re used to the ‘team above self’ idea, and also the fact that to advance, you sometimes have to do gritty, dirty yards of hard hard work with no immediate reward.
“Onboarding”?
I hold no brief against sport, but it sounds to me like you’re saying it makes people conveniently compliant in the corporate world, Si.
Not 100% sure I actually believe it, but I was musing about putting up a devils advocate post suggesting that team sport is a useful tool for encouraging compliance, reducing questioning, general stifling of individualism, creativity and free thinking, and so no wonder our paymasters are so keen on it.
We obey
Probably a horrible thing to say, and not something I’d have said until recently but… even if that is the case, then so much the better.
Society is rife with opportunities to feel like you’re a perfect, unique creature and the centre of the entire universe.
Being one part of a collective, occasionally taking a knock and learning to deal with adversity/defeat. Learning your own limits, and how to laugh at yourself. Massively underrated qualities in modern life. Sport can teach you them (if you’re lucky).
But that’s me being devil’s avocado as well.
The truth is that most sport mixes the collective thing with individual expression. And it most certainly is creative.
Hating sport strikes me as roughly equivalent to hating music. What, all of it? There’s very little point in generalising, because it’s a vast, vast field, with good and bad, because it involves people, and people are a bit bloody complicated.
Creative is the last thing it is – it discourages individuality unless it’s to promote narcissism or an elite class. Its rules and structure emphasise adhering to tried and tested methods. The collective? The sport collective code is if you don’t keep up or fit in then you are no use with camaraderie a fleeting concept. You are only useful as part of the team and weakness is not tolerated.
I don’t know nearly enough about sport to be able to say stuff like that, Dave.
I also don’t know if it’s creative, but then neither is being a music fan. That doesn’t make it bad.
Hang on, wait a second, I’m arguing about sport. I could be not being creative listening to music and not writing about it.
Well, shit. You spend 30 years doing something and then suddenly discover you’re doing it all wrong ; )
How is sport creative? I seriously just don’t see it unless you’re talking about a gymnastic floor routine. What’s creative about football, rugby, golf or pretty much any other ball game?
Well, creativity is ultimately a little subjective, so it’s probably a hiding to nothing trying to give examples in a field you don’t enjoy. Even so…
Football – the cruyff turn, the panenka, the rabona – all creative. Xavi looking up and spotting a pass through the eye of a needle that I can’t even see in real time with a birds eye TV view. Ronaldinho in general: I once went to see Barcelona and turned up early to watch him warm up – his tricks were outrageous. The patterns woven on the field by some of the great Brazilian sides.
Football is, at least in part, about self expression. For me, Leo Messi is far more creative and soul stirring than 95% of the acts discussed on this blog – he sees things no one else sees, does things no one else can do. The idea that he’s some sort of android ploughing a well worn furrow seems entirely alien to me, but said then it may look different from the vantage point of others.
In addition to a competitive game of football on a Tuesday night, I also play in a less serious game at lunch times on Friday. It’s classic playground football – we lose track of the score after about five minutes, everyone tries flicks, tricks and dribbles, and great pieces of creative work regularly get shouted exclamations of commendation, and maybe even a little applause. It feels like self expression to me – it’s not just about trying to score goals, it’s about trying to score beautiful goals.
Second example; surfing (not a ball sport, but I was talking about sport generally). Personally, I don’t really hold with competitions for surfing, but they do exist, they’re fairly big time these days, and participants are literally scored on their creativity – the wave is a blank canvass and they use their boards to make patterns across it, with wildly different signature styles.
I’m sure there are many, many other such examples. These are just the two sports
I happen to like the most.
OOAA and all that.
Thanks for trying to explain. I’ve never thought of that stuff as creative. Skilled, yes, but merely reacting to other players or the wave in the case of surfing. As you say OOAA.
This little piece of creative individualism is incredible to watch, even to non-sportists. Anticipation, athleticism, belief, audacity, cheek and technique from someone with, shall we say, no great intellectual pretensions. Best of all though is his commitment to the team and the task. Eight seconds before the ball hit the net he was standing on the halfway line.
Thanks for cascading that to the team, si š
Thought I’d run it up the flagpole to see who’d salute.
Tell you what, though, if nothing else this thread shows how long our teenage triumphs and difficulties stay with us, right?
I think maybe it’s worth the real sport-haters on here remembering that teenagers can be dickish bullies. It’s probably not the sport’s fault. If the dicks hadn’t been sporty, they’d still have been dicks.
I can’t hate sport or its fans and practitioners because I know and love many . My dad. My sister. My bandmate. Many of my friends, including @bingo-little. It’s not generally for me but that’s my issue, not anyone else’s.
Maybe it’s worth letting go of the hate? When has feeling *that* angry and hatey ever improved anyone’s life?
Sport just doesn’t really enter my life. That’s a choice we can all make if we want. It’s hardly inescapable.
Your first sentence is spot on.
I think that’s spot on, Bob – and cheers!
Sport isn’t for everyone. But it is a pretty broad church, exercise is basically a good thing and there can definitely be some upsides to it.
We’re all adults, and can figure out what we like and dislike, but all I’d say is that I’ve found that it’s best in life to try to keep a relatively open mind, and revisit stuff from time to time to check your feelings haven’t changed.
When I was a teenager I was dreadful for this stuff. I would constantly opt out of things, and create high-faultin reasons in my own head as to why everyone who participated in whatever the things might be were terribly shallow, or brainless or simply lacking the insight to know that sitting inside in the dark reading complicated books and listening to Smiths records was what life was really all about. Why go to the trouble and potential mess of experiencing stuff when I could just read a book about it? That was honestly how I saw it.
This tendency reached its apogee during a holiday to what is now one of my favourite surf breaks. A mate of mine decided he was going to learn to surf, rented a board and suit and spent the week in and out of the water while I played video games and scoffed. I was remembering being dragged out into the cold water to surf or sail by my parents when I was a kid, and I wrote it off completely – not for me.
Of course, years later I magically “discovered” surfing, and now if you offered me a week on those waves, I would have your arm off for it. It depresses me just thinking that I once turned it down with a sneer.
Now, I’m not judging anyone on this thread, I’m just speaking about my own experience, but I think there’s a lot to be said for trying to stay a bit open to stuff in life. You miss out on a hell of a lot otherwise. I was the same about the gym (all those brainless meatheads, eh? All those mirrors) until a mate dragged me to one and I loved it. All those years I lost, because of my assumptions and (frankly) my vanity.
Nowadays, if I’m not into something and someone who is starts telling me what’s good about it, I generally try to listen – because that’s often how cool new doors open.
Obviously, I’m not saying that all the sports haters on this thread should rush out and join the local athletics club – far from it. But I guarantee there’s at least one of you on here who has a daft idea about this stuff from a negative experience long ago, and who, with an open mind, could still find that sport might enrich their life. If it’s any help, my experience is that the dark room and the complex book will still be there for you, should you need or desire them.
Just a thought.
Peace and love to all.
BL
‘daft idea’ and you say you’re not judging anyone? Patronising twaddle from the top drawer. I’m done here
OK, DFB.
I genuinely didn’t have anyone in mind, more a numbers thing, but whatever floats your boat.
Nope not just me but everyone rise who is so foolish not yo realise they are wasting their lives by not participating in something. If only they could see the light, eh?
Dude, I’m not going to have an argument with you. Apols.
“Nowadays, if Iām not into something and someone who is starts telling me whatās good about it, I generally try to listen ā because thatās often how cool new doors open.”
Okey-dokey, Bing. Marijuana use can increase focus and concentration, making a person’s moods, sensations, and experience seem more intense. It can lead to a deeper recognition or understanding of an already known truth or perception, a new way of looking at something as well as playful fantasies and ideas.
For me, swimming in the sea stoned is one of the best feelings in the world. You can feel every muscle and sinew stretching in direct harmony with the waves.
Off you go. (Do let me know how you get on.)
Just don’t mention the memory disruption, increased risk of depression, balance issues, psychosis, anxiety etc., eh? š
*Increased* focus and concentration is a new one on me. The received wisdom and my own experience is that it turns people into lazy bores.
I wasn’t being entirely serious, Bob. (I do love spliff, but wouldn’t seriously encourage anyone else).
But to reply to your post, I’m not sure about increased risk of depression. I’ve never suffered from it. I think if you’re already predisposed it’ll probably worsen things. Same probably goes for balance issues (whatever they are). Psychosis and anxiety are also things I’ve no experience of.
My long term memory is truly appalling. People tell me anecdotes from uni I have absolutely no recollection of whatsoever. I see this as a good thing.
And I am never, ever, ever boring. No siree.
Actually, while we’re on the subject of sport, the only time I have been near to depression/anxiety was following a car crash a couple of years back. I felt very down, and the doctor told me it was because after years of regular exercise I was suddenly inactive (bed-ridden for a few weeks). I think endorphins are essential to my mental well being.
Fair dos, Gary – it’s different strokes for different folks. I guess because of my job I’m much more down on weed than I used to be. I smoked plenty in my youth, albeit not habitually, but I do see a lot of kids reduced to absolute wasters by puffing way too much of the stuff, and it breaks my heart a little.
I agree. Totally needs to be legalised and regulated in order to put a stop (or at least create an impediment) to kids abusing it.
In fairness, that does sound fuckin awesome.
When are you going to start surfing? You’re 90% there with the lifestyle anyway…
I wish. Growing up in London the opportunity never really arose. I only really got into beach life in my 30s. Should have tried it. Feel somewhat oldish now, plus I don’t have any surfer friends. I think I’d love it though. If I could do it.
Christ. It’s all a bit deep this. You either like sport or you don’t. No big deal. I do. You might not. I like this group. You might not. Blimey.
What!!
You like a group I don’t like?
When did THIS shit happen???
Aaaaaaarrrrrrgggghhhhh!!!
Sport leaves me cold. The sports section of my Saturday papers goes in the recycling unread.
However, I did rather enjoy reading Andy Miller’s book, Tilting at Windmills – How I Tried to Stop Worrying and Love Sport. The title comes from the fact that (spoiler alert) he ends up becoming something of a star at mini-golf.
in fact, I got quite keen on it myself and it became a fixture of family holidays. This affords frequent opportunities to enter into sports conversations with some initial enthusiasm: “So, was there a replica pirate ship? Any good water features? Oh, just grass. Well, never mind, eh.”
My top five artists, in chronological order:
Eddie Cunningham, St. Helens rugby league centre. My grandad took me to my first match when I was four. We travelled home & away. Eddie had pace and power. He was the spearhead of the team but his effectiveness wasn’t down to brute force. It was the artistry in his innate sense of the beauty of geometry. The angles of his runs were exquisite (see also Jeremy Guscott) as best exemplified by his try against Widnes in the 1976 Challenge Cup Final, a try I watched from behind the sticks to the right, the perfect spot to fully appreciate the angles in his run.
Duncan McKenzie, Everton forward. My grandad again was my guide from the age of eight. McKenzie could make a spherical object defy the laws of gravity using only his feet. He played for Gordon Lee, whose team was as drab and as grey as his name, a team of hard-tackling, hard-working cart horses. McKenzie was the diamond glittering in the coal, scoring goals of sublime beauty. What he did to Tommy Smith in the 1977 FA Cup Semi Final was a true work of art, even if Everton still lost.
Nina Simone, singer and pianist. My mum first introduced me to Nina. I was immediately struck by the fire in her soul. When I closed my eyes, I could see sparks fly from her fingers up and down the keyboard. The bitterness in her heart was disguised by the honey in her voice. Most of the time. The only human to make You Never Walk Alone tolerable, thankfully an instrumental.
Vincent Van Gogh, painter. My dad loved Lowry. Van Gogh seemed a small step away. When I first saw one of his works in the flesh, I could see the passion and relentless drive in the paint strokes. That man spent every waking hour trying to express his every feeling on a canvas. Actually standing in front of one of the Sunflowers in Amsterdam was incredibly moving. He painted them because he was happy his friend Gauguin was coming to stay and he wanted to cheer up the room. The fact they were dying, going brown, losing their petals seemed to pass him by. The one in Amsterdam is a repetition of the fourth version that is in London’s National Gallery, which I’ve also seen. It’s the four shades of yellow, van Gogh’s colour for happiness, that makes the difference.
John Coltrane, saxophone player and composer. To my ears, the most creative musician I have ever heard. There are so many different Coltranes but his playing is always astonishing. Most importantly, he elicits an emotional response in me. His music messes with my head with its technical brilliance and it penetrates my chest churning everything up inside, often bringing me to tears of joy and sorrow and everything in between. If I had to spend the rest of my life listening to him and no-one else, I’d die happy.
If you look hard enough, you can find art everywhere, even in sport. It’s all in the eye of the beholder.
UP
This thread seems to be now running out of steam, Si. It is a fascinating, enthralling read, with twists and turns, surprises and reassurances. It got fractious for a little while but, overwhelmingly, everyone’s contributions have been thoughtful and measured. Well done to all concerned and you in particular. What’s more, no-one mentioned ‘cyclists’, as opposed to cycling.
I enjoy listening to sport, I do not participate, and am I weird.?
I think not.
TMS is the best sports coverage you will ever hear on the radio IMHO.
Johnny Wilkinsons World Cup winning drop goal
Platini Giresse and Tigana ruling the world in 1982 til Harald Schumacher got in the way
Xavi and Iniesta, always
Roger Federer making countless impossible cross court backhands without apparently breaking sweat
Usain Bolt having time to look sideways and grin as he leaves the others in his wake at the Rio Olympics
Nicole Cooke emerging from the pack on the line to win cycling gold at the Beijing Olympics
Cathy Freeman winning in Sydney
Glenn Hoddle’s inch perfect cross field passes
I could go on, but these are just a few fantastic moments I remember that I found thrilling and uplifting. With the exception of Nicole Cooke straining every sinew, they all made what they did look easy and effortless, they all had grace and beauty – and, in the case of Federer and those glorious midfield footballers absolutely had creativity by the shedload.
Gotta love this Federer moment:
I run 3-4 times a week and always have. I was a fairly successful club runner but it never migrated to anything beyond that and I’m happy enough with that. I met some genuinely nice people, some of which I’ll always be in touch with.
I have also surfed, cycled and swam and do at least one triathlon a year. I like endurance events but was never into team sports.
Running has always been the one constant and I believe it keeps me in good mental health. A long run has given me time to solve a problem in my head or avoid blowing up over something I’ll discover wasn’t worth stressing about.
At the moment I have a father in law who is just about to be moved into a hospice and will pass in the next few days, I have my mother in law living with us who has the onset of dementia and my wife was diagnosed with kidney disease in December. The 40 minutes – 2 hours i take for a run has now become crucial to my coping with the changes.
I run 3-4 times a week and always have. I was a fairly successful club runner but it never migrated to anything beyond that and I’m happy enough with that. I met some genuinely nice people, some of which I’ll always be in touch with.
I have also surfed, cycled and swam and do at least one triathlon a year. I like endurance events but was never into team sports. I don’t mind watching the odd football match but ‘like’ rather than ‘love’.
Running has always been the one constant and I believe it keeps me in decent mental health. A long run has given me time to problem solve or avoid blowing up over something I’ll discover wasn’t worth stressing about. However most of the time it’s an excuse to just listen to some music.
At the moment I have a father in law who is just about to be moved into a hospice and will pass in the next few days, I have my mother in law living with us who has the onset of dementia and my wife was diagnosed with kidney disease in December. The 40 minutes – 2 hours i take for a run has now become crucial to my coping with the changes.