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What instruments ruin a song?

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I went to see Paul Carrack last Monday. He reminded me of two rules that I have about music and songs as he managed to break both of them in one gig.

The first relates to flutes. I cannot think of a single song that has been improved by the addition of a flute. Before Twang retorts with a Jethro Tull rock a flute very nicely, I have to say that I haven’t heard anything by Jethro Tull that I like.

The second rule is whistling. It always strikes me as a sort of filler – one up from la la la lyrics (Into The Valley by The Skids is the biggest sinner here). It always feels so lazy.

Does anyone actually like whistling or flutes in their rock? Or does anyone have any other rational dislikes?

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Comments

  1. Mogwai Fear Satan

    One of my very favourite songs of all time. Greatly improved by the flute that pops up throughout. It weaves in and out of the song, but there’s a good example at 3.30.

  6. Like most sane people I love Bob Dylan At Budokan, which is plastered with all sorts of unsuitable instruments like sax, recorder, violin and flute. The version of Love Minus Zero/No Limit is the bestest ever. Sadly it’s not currently on YouTube or I’d inflict it on you.

  9. I can report that I listened to the Tull this morning, yes, with flute, and recorded a song last night featuring whistling. Whoops.

    There’s nothing I automatically dislike – it’s all about context. But I do find falsetto vocals very quickly get on my nerves, especially white blokes trying to be soully.

  10. The late Chris Wood (not the folk singer of the same name), best known as a member of Traffic played flute as well as sax.

    His contribution to the title track of John Barleycorn Must Die elevates what would otherwise be a pleasant but inessential song to a thing of low-key magic.

    I’m also very partial to his playing on Free’s Mourning Sad Morning.

    the accordion has the ability to ruin many a song, but in the right hands (of which there are few) it can be an instrument of joy.

  11. When sax is good (in pop or rock, anyway), it’s magic, but it’s so very very rarely good.

    Half the time I even want to tell The Big Man to STFU.

  12. Pretty much nothing is totally beyond the pale. Flute? Think Nick Drake. Falsetto white dudes? Van Morrison. I loathe the sound of trumpets, but when The Unthanks break out the brass it is utterly uplifting. I can’t think of any 80s gated drums which don’t spoil the recording they are on, but am willing to be persuaded of their merit in the right place.

  14. The talkbox, as popularised (which is just an expression and should not be taken literally) by Peter “I’m Up You” Frampton.

    Satan’s drip-feed tube is also the only blight on Joe Walsh’s otherwise impeccable career. Why, Joe, why? (Rory Gallagher would sometimes scat sing the same notes he was playing on the guitar, true enough, but he never went so far as to simulate syphoning petrol on stage, as far as I know.)

  16. Have you considered, Leeds, how important the flute (an alto flute by the sound of it) is to ‘Ghost Town’ by the Specials? It’s a motif of a few notes but it sets the mood brilliantly – spookiness and melancholia.

    However, you might find this a perfect storm of angst: a Jethro Tull song called ‘The Whistler’ with, yes, (tin) whistling…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m93bO7HnZDw

    • I had forgotten Ghost Town. It is very much the exception that proves the rule though. I can’t get on with the Tull though. It just reminds of shitty 60’s and 70’s Robin Hood TV programme minstrels. I know thats unfair and the have legions or ardent fans.

  18. Oh, I’ve got one. Not really an instrument, but has their ever been a record which features laughter which wouldn’t be immeasurably better without it? I’m looking at you here, Joni, and don’t pretend your guffaw at that deep ‘put up a parking lot’ line was even vaguely genuine.

    See also live recordings with audiences who laugh on cue, when they’re expected to rather than because something is genuinely funny. A recent and excruciating example being Father John Misty’s ‘Bored in the USA’. It reminds me of a great description of They Might Be Giants as ‘music for people who say ‘Hey, that’s funny’ and then laugh rather than the other way around.

    And the Laughing bloody Policeman can sod off and take his truncheon with him too.

  19. Bagpipes? God’s own instruments. Agree they seldom break into popular song with success, and neither Mull of Kintyre or that Rod one are good songs, nor even, if I’m harsh, the Wizzard one. But, should you allow bellows driven, cos I suspect you think of highland war pipes, this is good:

    Touch of gate in the drums too?

  20. I’ve always thought that the ‘treated piano’ solo (1:40-1:58) – possibly through a Leslie speaker – in the otherwise fabulous Quintessence B side ‘Move Into The Light’ was a dreadful error of judgement.

    Warning: NOT SAFE FOR LEEDSBOY (contains flute)

    • “I’ve always thought that the ‘treated piano’ solo (1:40-1:58) – possibly through a Leslie speaker – in the otherwise fabulous Quintessence B side ‘Move Into The Light’ was a dreadful error of judgement.”

      The Quintessential Afterword T-shirt. I so want one.

  21. Sax.

    Works on black rock ‘n’ roll records – the more out of tune and manic, the better – e.g. Little Richard.
    Doesn’t work anywhere else.

    Needless to say, the instrument was everywhere in the dire 1980s.

  30. …and the answer is ‘the harpsichord’, the harpsichord.

    Pure poison in sonic form.

    I honestly can’t understand why it’s not illegal to play it within earshot of human beings.

    • My dad (91) may beg to differ Jeff. He wants the aria from Bach’s Goldberg Variations played at his funeral. His original LP is scratched and, hilariously, jumps during the much vaunted opening aria. So I bought some different versions of the piece on CD. But he turned his nose up to the lot of them because they were all played on piano. It’s a harpsichord version or nothing for my dad. Not that he’ll be hearing much of it on the day.

      • Oof!

        Ok, after due consideration, I’m willing to make an exception ON THIS ONE OCCASION.

        Here’s a chit.

        And here’s hoping you don’t have to cash it for many more years yet.

        • Actually, on further reflection, given that your dad is a member of The Greatest Generation he should, of course, be lionised and cherished to the nth degree.

          So I’ve just done a little research and found that one of the most highly regarded harpsichord renderings is by Trevor Pinnock. And Amazon have got one copy available (not sure this will paste in properly as a hyperlink on my phone):

  31. Thanks Jeff. I think that might be the one he has on LP. Will order.

    For those repelled by all things harpischord, that cover must send a shiver down the spine. Well done you for facing the challenge head on!

    • Ah that’s great Martin, I’m really pleased about that.

      As for the thought of the harpsichord itself, yes it’s bad but it’s nothing that a 5lb lump hammer couldn’t put right.

  32. Keith Jarrett did a Bach album only on harpsichord. Pretty good stuff. In fact, there’s nothing really wrong with any of the above mentioned instruments (well okay, Linn drums are shite) in the hands of proper musicians.

    Which brings me to my pet hate in 50 years of collecting music and going to gigs. Yes folks, it’s the non-musicians’ instrument of choice, including hangers on, “old ladies”, alphas, basically a quick fix for anybody who needed pacifying or extra attention. The tambourine. Fuck…aarrrgh!!

    Yes, it can be well used (Grapevine) but hardly ever is. And it’s all over, say, All Things Must Pass and Absolutely Free. What were George and Frank thinking?

    Damn, just thinking about frigging Jagger with a tambourine..
    Or, better not.

  35. Pan Pipes.
    I’ve never yet heard anything good with Pan Pipes on it. I cannot abide them.

    Flutes, saxes, trumpets, accordions, banjos, fiddles, even hurdy-gurdys are more than OK by me in the right context.
    Any instrument can be horrible in the wrong context. For instance, “Trumpets” by The Waterboys. With a (not very good) saxophone splashed all over it? No thank you Mr Scott. An absolute stinker.

    • Here it is, used to great effect in Picnic At Hanging Rock (is that in the canon yet?):

      I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: back in the day when Zamfir was still recording Bulgarian folk music he made some fantastic albums. Then he got introduced to the Easy Listening dollars…shame!

    • Actually, the harpsichord on that is my favourite sort, ie barely audible.

      What you singularly failed to trigger-warning us about is that that the Left Bankey’s original also contains chuffin’ FLUTE!! Though it has the merit of being played by an invisible person in the trees or the sky (?God), it’s still flute.

      Which means that I have to neutralise this unspeakable horror by posting my favourite version, by Linda Ronstadt and Ann Savoy:

  41. Went to a Taj Mahal concert in the dire 1980s and the whole thing was ruined by the -sounding ‘1980s’ even IN the 1980s – keyboards.
    Seems the only people in the Town & Country Club who couldn’t hear how awful it was were those on stage.
    Charles Shaar Murray mentions it in his book ‘Blues on CD’.

  42. Horribly miked acoustic guitars circa 80’s to 90’s. I don’t get it, acoustic guitars in earlier decades always sounded brilliant. Wha’ happened? This reedy, plastiky, crap acoustic sound was a virtual epidemic on live recordings around that time, but even appeared on studio albums. Bob Dylan’s 1992 album, Good As I Been To You springs to mind. No longer on youtube unfortunately.

  43. Some more tunes avec flute.

    Manfred Mann’s Mighty Quinn, Camel – Rhayader, Genesis -The Knife, Canned Heat – Goin up the Country, Laurie Anderson -Oh Superman.

    More recently, lots of flute on the Earliest first album, which I always liked.

  47. Mellotron. Yes, don’t go, it’s true. So it may have been cutting edge but, christ on a bike, is it not the most dated sounding shite on earth, even in good songs. And not in good songs it is way worse. (Cue Barclay James Fecking Harvest

    • But that’s what’s so lovely about it. I cross-reference my comment in the Albumsthathaven’tdated thread: I really prefer music that belongs to its time, and a wash of mellotron gives as clear an indication as any electro carbon dating.

  49. I’m all too aware that I’ll forfeit my membership of this exalted order and have to go back to being a civilian, haunted by the jeers and taunts that’ll accompany this confession.
    I love the whistling on ‘Jealous Guy’.
    Yeah, fuck the pseudo and snobs (I prefer the whistling in the original German etc), but I found it heartfelt and unselfconscious when I first heard it. It was also a surprise as I was so unexpected.
    In a desperate attempt to retain some cred, I must point out forcefully that the POB album is one of my favourite ever records.

  50. In songs is different to in rock. For example the vibes are tolerable (barely) in jazz see MJQ, or even funk, see Roy Ayers but other than that -get behind me Satan.

    Now the flute -I’m a Tull fan but wonder whether the songs work in spite of the flute .

    Herbie Mann did some ok stuff ,see Memphis Underground with the Stax musos and Duane Allman but I have an experience that has scarred me. It was a BB King concert around 1973 and Herbie was in town at the same time. Sho nuff, up hops Herbie to do some blues jamming on his infernal flute. My, my my, it was awful.

  52. One problem with many instruments is that when they’re used in a rock context the sound is usually never in its pure form, but processed by several means, sometimes even put through a guitar amplifier. Echo and/or reverb in particular tend to really mess up the sound of the instrument.

  54. Okay, let’s stop shilly-shallying around here. Setting aside the Ch****n S***k, there can surely be no question that the ‘keytar’ is the worst instrument invented. Just look at this berk…

  56. The didgeridoo is a definite didgeri-don’t in rock songs: I appreciate it’s original cultural significance, but it usually just sounds inappropriate or crass when mixed in as another instrument. Rolf Harris played on this…

    • Ah, no, I must stop you there, Pessoameister…. Yes, it is a limited thing, but sometimes it is the ONLY thing – a unique sound, the missing ingredient.

      Is it possible that I am the only Afterworder to have recorded with a didgeridoo? Played by the great Phil ‘Shiva’ Jones of Quintessence. (I imagine Mousey might have recorded with a didg at some point – hope so!)

      This whole track is built on a didgeridoo:

      https://soundcloud.com/colinh-1/colin-h-novaya-zemlya

  57. Am I allowed to nominate a person rather than an instrument?

    Ray Cooper tends to ruin a song, whatever instrument he may be playing though, of course, the louder the instrument can be played, the worse the damage he does.

    • I have a drummer/percussionist pal who was asked to dep for Ray Cooper at a recording session a few years back. He wondered whether he’d be expected to bring his full car-load of percussion gear or just a tambourine in a little attaché case.

      My abiding memory of 1980s television is Ray Cooper, seemingly every other month, grandstanding on a colossal podium (with Armani-suit-wearing rock bores like Clapton, Collins, Elton, Knopfler all jamming away 20 feet below him on the stage) at enormo-music-charity-telethon events.

  58. In another thread I presented the OMD song Bloc Bloc Bloc (sic) and although I do like OMD a great deal, they committed a sin in that song that they had done before – the enforced jollity of a shit horn section. Their top 10 single The Locomotion also did this. There was also a song in Junk Culture called (I think) All Wrapped Up which was all upbeat and had the horns in there because horns obviously means instant Mardi Gras ! Hey! Party time! Blow some whistles! Steel drums too!

    The best example of this is Eurythmics Right By Your Side. I visualise Annie going through the motions with a face like thunder – ruthlessly and defiantly laying down a cheerful number to prove that she knows how to let her hair down.

    • Right By Your Side is a heap of excrements. The horns, however (what little there is of them) is the least shite part IMO.
      Those awful intro whistles! The “steele drums” (sounds like a synthesizer to me)! The ay ay ay:s and prrrrrr:s and other noises of gay abandon from Annie! The awfulness of the song in general!
      Where Bloc Bloc Bloc is concerned, my answer is still: It’s a tuuuuuuune!
      Unlike this crap (just look at this awful video):

  59. Another thumbs up for flutes in music. It is sine qua non of prog in it’s most “classical” form.

    That Betty Boo clip was a flashback: I went out with someone who looked like her for 3 years in the mid-80s and had genuinely forgotten about her.

    I am SHOCKED by the lack of mention of whistling in Tenpole Tudor’s oevre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IE7hr8FhHI

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