Musings on the byways of popular culture
30/03/2015 by Uncle Wheaty 81 Comments
It makes sense.
Bingo Little says
30/03/2015 at 21:23
When you put it that way…. fuck it, you’re on.
Uncle Wheaty says
30/03/2015 at 21:26
Less is more.
30/03/2015 at 21:30
30/03/2015 at 21:32
The debate with all the party leaders on 2nd April.
I would love all of the parties to have a unified message of no deal with the SNP.
30/03/2015 at 21:44
Because Scots are second-class citizens and our votes must not be respected? We hear that one quite a bit.
30/03/2015 at 21:57
How did you assume that from my post?
30/03/2015 at 22:04
Not your post, but your comment that you would like to see all parties refuse to cooperate with the SNP. If the polls are correct (big if, still), and the SNP provide the majority of the MPs we send to Westminster, then what other inference than mine are we to draw from your comment? I suspect I may have stepped into a long-running in-joke of some kind, so will step back out if that’s the case.
30/03/2015 at 22:12
No in joke just a personal opinion.
30/03/2015 at 22:14
Thanks. I revert to my original comment, then.
Lando Cakes says
30/03/2015 at 22:27
Interesting how many nats seem incapable of differentiating between their political party and the country as a whole. Not healthy at all.
Even worse is the inability to distinguish between their party leader and the country as a whole (cf the recent Steve Bell cartoon furore). Now, that’s verging on the pathological.
30/03/2015 at 22:34
Oh my, ‘incapable’ and ‘pathological’ so soon? When we haven’t even had a response to my question yet? Goodness me. Your question introduces a false distinction between ‘my’ party and ‘the country as a whole’, when my actual objection was to the suggestion that if Scottish voters choose to send MPs from a particular party to Westminster, then it would be something to ‘love’ if all other parties refused to cooperate with Scotland’s elected representatives. Save your ad hominems for later in the thread, hey? When we’re all tired.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
31/03/2015 at 06:50
I’m liking this woman!
Witty, intelligent and Scots…
Still snowing in Perthshire by the way
31/03/2015 at 07:01
No ad hominems there at all. Unless, of course, you yourself are one of those nats incapable of making the distinction between party and country? It really is a rather important one, in healthy societies.
And here’s how democracy works: MPs from regional parties have no specific right to be part of any government. You are imagining a slight where none exists.
31/03/2015 at 07:14
Afraid democracy does not indeed work that way. If Scotland elects the SNP then the SNP have every democratic right to do what the fuck they like in order to get closer to an inependent Scotland.
If I had a UK vote these days I wouldn’t be voting SNP by the way…
31/03/2015 at 15:00
Er, no. Just no. No party at all has a *right* to be part of the government (unless, of course, they have a majority of MPs in the HoC). I’m genuinely surprised that you think otherwise.
31/03/2015 at 09:08
Not sure why your first comment came as a direct reply to mine, in that case, but let’s accept that you meant no slight.
Your explanation of how democracy works is quite wrong, but @henpetsgi has already pointed that out.
31/03/2015 at 10:45
can there be a minimum column width for comments to avoid the above replies which have one word per line?!
31/03/2015 at 15:05
I was pointing out that you imagined a slight in the earlier post re the desire to avoid alliances with the nats. You appeared to conflate a criticism of the SNP (a political party) with criticism of Scotland as a whole. It’s unfortunate that you can’t see the difference. My criticism of nattery was, of course, intentional.
And as I’ve now pointed out, my understanding of how our democracy works is quite correct: no party has a *right* to be part of the government.
03/04/2015 at 20:53
As do I
03/04/2015 at 20:44
Sorry Camille, but Uncle Wheaty is right here: he called against a deal with the SNP, and you replied saying that Scots’ votes (as opposed to SNP supporters’ votes) needed to be respected.
Speaking as a Scot, it’s ironic how the lack of distinction between English/British is quite rightly criticised, but Scottish/Nationalist interchangeability is apparently OK?
04/04/2015 at 19:41
Thank you for agreeing with my clearly stated point of view.
30/03/2015 at 21:45
[melchett]Praise the Lord, for the gift of laughter.[/melchett]
30/03/2015 at 22:43
Ah yes, the Lib Dems. A party of principle. Good to believe that they’re the kind od party to stand up to and reverse the tyranny of the last few years.
30/03/2015 at 22:48
This is pretty useful for the undecided:
Fiction Romantic says
30/03/2015 at 22:52
So far the campaign is about what the rival parties might do if they win the bloody election rather than detailing their own vote “winning” policies. Yah boo sucks the lot of them.
Fortunately I have a decent SNP candidate and I’ll be voting for her. I think the SNP should start contesting seats in northern England, would be interesting to see the level of support that they might get but I suspect that the current shower of Clegg/Cameron/Milliband would be in for a kicking!
eddie g says
31/03/2015 at 06:41
I shall vote Labour, just like I always do.
And with a diminishing sense of expectation.
31/03/2015 at 18:50
That is exactly my intention/ view eddie.
31/03/2015 at 06:55
I can’t think of anything the Lib Dems have done in the last five years that justifies their continued existence after May 8th. For years their main message in the constituencies has been ‘Labour can’t win here’ so you had to vote for them to keep the Tories out. Then they jumped straight into bed with them. If the Lib Dems aren’t there at all, the picture changes, especially with a bit of UKIP thrown in there too. Wipe them out.
31/03/2015 at 07:06
If the Lib Dems aren’t there the Tories win pretty much all the seats in the South West and possibly one or two rural seats elsewhere. Bit of a negative, but the reality none the less.
31/03/2015 at 07:17
Whether or not other parties choose to deal with the SNP is a matter for them, but it is difficult to envisage a scenario where the SNP wouldn’t demand at least some sort of pay off. And the liklihood is that this would mean more resources being diverted from the rest of the UK. Can’t say that prospect fills me with any glee.
On the upside, a large number of SNP MPs might kick start a meaningful move in the direction of PR. The current system is increasingly unfit for purpose. The election might well give the SNP 8% of seats based on 4% of the vote, whilst UKIP and the Greens could get 20% between them and end up with less than 1% of the seats.
31/03/2015 at 15:25
I think there is vanishingly little chance of any SNP ‘pay-off’. For three reasons.
One is that both the Tories and the SNP have ruled out any deal with each other (despite the Tories keeping the minority SNP government afloat in the Scottish parliament).
A Labour arrangement is unlikely because a) if Labour lose seats in Scotland, they are less likely to be the largest party in Westminster and b) Labour knows it would be toxic to support in England.
In the event of a minority Labour government, I would imagine that Ed Miliband would simply put his programme to the HoC and dare any nats to help the Tories vote it down.
Either way, I think a punt on a second GE in october might be worthwhile.
Interesting article here suggesting that a Tory-SNP deal may not be as unthinkable as we might imagine:
03/04/2015 at 21:23
Great article. Possibly could happen.
rotherhithe hack says
31/03/2015 at 09:29
I voted LibDem in 97, 01 and 05, regarding them as a little left of centre and generally an honest crowd, but didn’t like the look of Clegg and his inner circle and went back to Labour in 10. And I feel vindicated by what’s happened.
The LDs were perfectly right to go into coalition with the Tories – it was the only legitimate outcome of the results in 2010 – but they’ve proved to be pretty spineless in providing a brake on the Tories’ instincts. They’ve let them dictate the whole narrative around public spending and benefit cuts, and quite happily joined in kicking people at the bottom of the economic ladder.
And they waved through the NHS changes with barely a murmur of dissent, even thought the bill was not in the coalition agreement, and Cameron had denied there was any big plan for change right up to the election. It was the biggest lie of 2010, the LibDems could have killed it, but just rolled over and did what they were told.
As far as I’m concerned it killed them as a centre/left party, and they won’t have a chance of my vote until Clegg is long gone and they acknowledge how wrong they’ve been in the past five years.
31/03/2015 at 09:44
I voted Lib Dem in 97. I subsequently became convinced that they weren’t a serious outfit and were happy spouting off in the security of knowing that they’d never be placed in the difficult position of actually needing to execute any of what they were talking about.
Their stint sharing power has only deepened my suspicion. The Conservatives have consistently played them like a fiddle.
It’ll be Labour again for me. Poor quality leadership, but that’s true of nearly all parties right now. I actually think the Greens have the best manifesto this time out, and would be tempted to vote for them if they had any hope in my constituency.
31/03/2015 at 09:51
But given that your single vote is extremely unlikely to tip the balance one way or another, why not vote for the Greens anyway?
31/03/2015 at 10:01
Two reasons: (a) the Greens polled less than 1% of the local vote in 2010 and are a non-factor in this constituency; and (b) I don’t think the Greens are in a serious position to assume office, even if they were given the chance. Manifesto promises are nice, but I’d rather give my vote to someone whose pledges are grounded by the practical concerns of potentially being held to them, especially when the stakes are high, as they feel this time round.
In other circumstances (healthy labour majority, for example) I’d consider voting Green. Not on this occasion.
31/03/2015 at 10:02
Oh, and all votes matter. My vote for labour will either (hopefully) strengthen their majority in this seat, or (more likely) help reduce the Conservative majority.
It doesn’t need to be a swing vote in a marginal to be important.
31/03/2015 at 10:28
Black Celebration says
03/04/2015 at 21:48
I’m sorry, Bingo but that’s nonsense.
Where I lived, if I voted anything other than Conservative, my vote was wasted. A majority of 20,000 was reduced to about 11,000 in the 70s before going up to 24,000 again. It is one of many “safe” seats where people’s votes are irrelevant. By the way, this is true of Labour safe seats too. They are rotten boroughs.
In the last election 36% ( of the 65% that voted…) voted Conservative. How on earth is it fair for that to mean that they get nearly half the seats in the House of Commons?
31/03/2015 at 12:43
I’m going to vote Green, as their manifesto comes must closely with my views, even though their leader does come across as something of an idiot (is there any political party without an idiot leading it at the moment?)
I came to the conclusion some time ago that I’d rather vote for a party rather than against the worst alternative, playing the long game that those working to bring about the policies I agree with are strengthened by any votes they get.
31/03/2015 at 15:07
As I’ve said before, I’d rather vote Tory than Green. And I’m not going to vote Tory.
31/03/2015 at 21:21
Each to their own, @lando-cakes, but thanks for replying to my comment. I don’t think there is a single Party whose manifesto I would 100% agree with, but on the issues I feel strongest about, the Greens chime closest. Animal rights is not one of those.
31/03/2015 at 15:13
Why’s that, Lando?
31/03/2015 at 15:28
Their opposition to medical research. It’s a red line issue for me. People who care more about mice than about children with cyctic fibrosis are simply unfit for public office, IMO.
31/03/2015 at 15:30
Aha – fair play. Not a red line for me, but I can see why others might feel differently.
31/03/2015 at 15:43
I’d be happy to see the LibDems eradicated as a parliamentary force at this GE.
Historically if I’m correct, they’ve been seen as decent enough to run local councils but rarely trusted on the national stage. Their collusion in the current austerity round surely will only go to reinforce this notion. When presented with the opportunity, they got such a boner for power, any notion of principle or acting as a brake on the current shower evaporated.
Two particular examples of Liberal yuckiness in the pre Clegg era spring tp mind that illustrate to me the contrast between their ‘ essentially decent, if perhaps ineffective’ image & the reality.
The first is the * deafening* silence from the party over years required to allow Cyril Smith to operate with vile impunity, and the other is way in which the avuncular Simon Hughes presided over a party machine that was repugnantly homophobic against the then Labour candidate Peter Tatchell in Bermondsey, only for it to transpire a number of years later he’d been very busy himself with chaps of the male persuasion whilst remaining firmly in the married closet. A hypocrite of the first order, in my book.
I have far more respect for a political adversary who is is what they appear to be rather than slimy about it, even if I loathe pretty everything they espouse.
Having read his diaries, I came to have a begrudging respect for the late Alan Clarke. Not from some Voltaire- like stance of ‘I will defend to the death your right etc.’ , but because he was honest about what he was about. To use an overworn meme, I honestly could sit & have a drink with someone of his ilk, secure in the knowledge that if a ‘ glorious day’ ever came , he would shoot me & I’d surely shoot him, but until such time we could converse etc.
31/03/2015 at 17:08
Nice post, Jim. Just one tiny thing: the famous Conservative MP, car enthusiast, historian, diarist, lothario and all-round roué was Alan Clark (without an ‘e’ at the end).
Alan Clarke (with an ‘e’ at the end) scored the winning goal for Leeds Utd against Arsenal in the Centenary F.A. Cup Final. I’m sure we can all hear David Coleman’s commentary resounding down the decades: “Clarke … One-nil!”
MC Escher says
31/03/2015 at 17:27
Nice distinction duco01 but just one thing… Allan, not Alan 🙂
31/03/2015 at 17:28
that was a wink not a jeer BTW 😉
31/03/2015 at 17:58
Happy to be corrected by my esteemed posters re ”Sniffer’ Clarke – I should have known better.
Who of a certain generation can forget that Cup Final, which was hugely hyped as it was the ‘Centenary Final’ TM
I have a vivid recollection of watching it on a very lurid colour TV, & having a strange feeling of anti climax at the result as I cared for neither side. What WAS most memorable was that the result ensured that Leeds ‘ name would adorn the GOLDEN Esso coin produced to complete the most sought after football coin collection since the last one.
05/04/2015 at 17:42
Are your fellow posters no longer with us?
31/03/2015 at 20:49
I’m also happy to be corrected by my fellow Afterworders re Allan, not Alan Clarke. That’ll teach me to be Mr Pedant!
31/03/2015 at 18:58
I remember the 1983 Bermondsey bye election & IMHO, Peter Tatchell was hung out to dry by his own party.
Most definitely NOT the Labours finest moment.
Peter Tatchell was the only person to come out of the whole saga with any dignity.
31/03/2015 at 19:20
Well said, Jim. The Lib Dems loved sitting in the moral high ground for donkey’s years while they were in no danger of having to take responsibility for anything.
As soon as they got a sniff of power their trousers dropped and the students taken in by their promises were well and truly shafted.
As for the Cyril Smith stuff, it’s hard believe to everyone that mattered hadn’t heard about him and no one at the head of the party gives the impression of welcoming the cleansing properties of sunlight.
I dream of the Lib Dems, and Clegg, in particular, being destroyed at this election.
03/04/2015 at 22:12
The Cyril Smith comment has no relation to the current party.
A very bizarre comment and completely misplaced and irrelevant.
03/04/2015 at 22:37
Labour and the Tories have their own filthy secrets of that nature too, I’m sure. The perverts paradise that was ongoing in those days was a non-party-specific club and the principals are all safely dead. The ones who colluded in hiding it all are likewise either dead or so far out of power to make their past affiliations irrelevant to current politics.
31/03/2015 at 19:21
And I still can’t seem to leave replies in the right place on my iPad.
31/03/2015 at 21:30
@ianp – try touching the relevant ‘REPLY’ until you get a box with the option – ‘Open link in new tab’. Selecting this and then going to the new tab, you should see that it says ‘Leave a Reply to (e.g. IanP)’ – assuring you that your comment goes in the right place.
The only thing is – it can be a bit of a bugger touching the ‘Reply’ for long enough. It does frequently jump to the main Reply box at the bottom of the page.
31/03/2015 at 19:27
My 13 year old son had the most eloquent summing up of the forthcoming election.
Referring to the party leaders “They’re all idiots. You just need to vote for the one who seems the least idiotic”
He liked Nicola Sturgeon’s rather razor like analysis. I pointed out the SNP don’t have candidates standing in mid Essex.
31/03/2015 at 19:28
No comlaints about Clegg’s work as a constituency MP, but he sold out the party, their policies and principals for a seat at Cameron’s table – the electorate will not easily forgive or forget that.
03/04/2015 at 20:50
He did what he had to do IMO.
He should have been stronger against the Health and Social Care Act but Cameron took his eye off that ball and let Andrew Lansley run loose.
31/03/2015 at 20:45
Are we doing politics again? I notice that nice Mr Ashdown compared the SNP to something from the Balkans then backpedalled in the next sentence while someone else has been going on about them ‘coming to burn Westminster’.
Nothing inflammatory to see here, move along. Post-imperial British state not threatened in the least, oh dear no. I expect the ‘worse than the IRA’ comments will arrive quite soon. Desperate times.
Those who live by the comedy-lols voting system also expire by it. Forty-five per cent loses you #indyref but – channelled through one party – it widdles all over anything Con or Lab have achieved since [oh i can’t be bothered looking it up, i’m eating curry], even if ScotLab rally a bit (and with attack trolls like McDougall & McTernan behind Murphy, pushing their dimwit agenda at ‘Glasgow Man’, the rally is transparent b*ll*cks).
Consequently there will be lots of SNP MPs at a parliament they see as an interim measure after May, standing behind a woman who’s going to make a great deal of sense to folk across Eng & Wal (NI: terms & conditions apply, partic with those unionists saying, ‘Us sir, us Mr Cameron sir, give us a token anti-Fenian measure and we’ll suck your toes for *five years* sir!’)
And, naffcheese, i’m too feckin livid to peck at this iphone anymore.
03/04/2015 at 20:24
The debate proves me right.
Vote Lib Dem or we are all doomed.
03/04/2015 at 20:55
We will either get a Labour/SNP coalition or a Tory/Lib Dem/DUP/UKIP mash up.
03/04/2015 at 22:48
I don’t think we’ll get a coalition of any stripe, this time around.
I think we’ll get a Tory or a Labour minority government, with the other parties voting for or against the policies that suit/don’t suit them as they arise.
The political media will love it.
Quite possibly we’ll get a rerun later in the year after it unravels.
05/04/2015 at 13:22
Vote for your personal principles and damn ‘strategy’. Whatever it turns out as, it does rather sound to me like we are at the point where a band have run out of ideas bar their usual tropes, they get in hip producers, rappers, a cameo from whatever’s latest “with the kids”, Hipgnosis, and, strangely, the album is rubbish.
05/04/2015 at 17:32
If you are in work enjoy your £10600 tax free allowance from next week.
That’s what we do.
11/04/2015 at 19:05
It still makes sense IMHO.
hubert rawlinson says
11/04/2015 at 19:16
I have a dilemma. In my constituency a work colleague is standing as the UKIP candidate, my neighbour is standing as the Green candidate. Decisions, decisions.
11/04/2015 at 19:27
Vote Lib Dem, then!
11/04/2015 at 19:30
that was the other dilemma, my brother-in-law is a Lib-Dem activist.
11/04/2015 at 19:35
Spoil your ballot paper.
11/04/2015 at 19:50
Get completely rat-arsed on polling day and pass out on the sofa without having gone to vote.
Wake up the next day with a guilty conscience and a really shocking hangover.
Take a sickie to recover from the hangover and then suppress your guilt for the next 5 years, as whoever wins the election screws the country up in ways you could never have possibly imagined up to now.
That’s what I’ll probably do.
11/04/2015 at 19:54
That’s a much better idea than mine.
11/04/2015 at 19:34
Actually. Watching Ed today, presenting their plan for the NHS, he looked confident, assured and in absolute command, much more authoritative than his co-host, Andy Burnham. These personal attacks from the Tories are giving him the opportunity to look more dignified and prime ministerial.
Cameron, on the other hand, is getting more shaky and more jittery. I don’t think the Tory strategy is working.
11/04/2015 at 21:33
That’s just what I thought seeing them both do the standard hospital visits on the news just now.
11/04/2015 at 19:56
A few weeks ago Ed Milliband was a spineless weakling not capable of running a works raffle.
Suddenly now he’s a cold-eyed backstabbing bastard who shafted his own brother for the chance to sell us all down the river.
16/04/2015 at 23:43
Vote Lib Dem
17/04/2015 at 00:22
And, if you contribute money to the Lib Dems you’re in with a chance of winning dinner with John Cleese and, er, Paddy Ashdown. At the risk of reigniting this whole thread, I’d say that’s probably not enough to get them into government.
Baron Harkonnen says
17/04/2015 at 08:59
The End? No way. I hav`n`t said who I`m voting for yet. It`s Green for me if they put someone up around here. What no Green? Then it`s Labour. Hopefully Milliband will be gone in 6 months. Yes Cameron`s Clowns will be in power again, maybe not for long. The Coalition with whoever gets into bed with them will soon fall apart. I base my prediction…feck knows.
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