Brian Eno is playing two sets at The Southbank this october. I was interested until I saw the ticket prices. The London Southbank shows vary from £65 -£165. He’s also playing around Europe so I checked out the two sets in Venice prices – 30 Euros – 80 Euros. Considering that Venice is known to be a fairly expensive place to visit I find the difference in prices staggering.
I’ve been feeling that ticket prices have been rocketing for a while now but why are we paying over double? There will possibly be a live stream to cinemas(I’m guessing this) too.
I’m all for artists earning a fair living but are we being ripped off?
Good luck with your retirement fund Brian but I won’t be contributing.
UK Ticket Prices (eg Brian Eno)
Same with your expanded versions of albums ya bald bastard! etc.
I think it’s the same story for many artists. I know that a friend said it was cheaper for him to travel to Europe to see Springsteen than it was to buy a decent ticket here.
But in relative terms, even we have it good compared to fans in the US. Their ticketing structures for high-profile tours like Beyonce, Bruce* and Taylor are unbelievable to us, but most people just seem to accept prices in the $200-$400 range as being reasonable.
*Not talking about the ‘dynamic pricing’ farrago in this instance.
Yeah UK is relatively cheap. And also way better chances to buy resale tickets at face value
I have a feeling those ticket prices are more due to what all the large UK venues cost to use and the big corporate promoters and ticket sellers (sometimes the same people these days) having a stranglehold on them. I wonder how much of those prices actually goes into Mr Eno’s pocket.
I think generally the artist’s management negotiate with venues, promoters etc to guarantee their act a certain amount. Ticket prices are then set accordingly so venues etc can make a small or negligible profit. They then make more money from concession stands selling overpriced drinks and food.
So if the artists settles for less ticket prices will be cheaper
@Mike-H
A lot more than he would if he bought the Winkies out of retirement and back on the road with him
A quick search reveals that hire for an evening at the Festival Hall (capacity 2500 seated) is £20k plus VAT (£24k inc VAT). You will probably have to pay something if you want to set up during the day although I would expect this to be negotiable. A sold out show would need to be £9.60, just to cover the venue for the evening. For comparison, Shepherds Bush Empire, capacity 2000 standing, is a very reasonable £10k for the whole day. There are probably extra costs to both venues for crew, FOH staff etc.
https://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/venue-hire/auditoria/royal-festival-hall
https://hirespace.com/Spaces/London/136884/O2-Shepherds-Bush-Empire/Whole-Venue/Events
I agree that’s a big difference between £65 – £165 but that’s only one cost. No crew, equipment, transport, hotels, catering, although it’s hard to see how the other £130k or so would get eaten up.
I love playing this game- ‘work how much a band makes.’ I would suggest (but it is only a guess) that you’ve got to factor in the following-
Venue Hire (about 10%)
Promoter (about 10%)
Management (10-20%)
Then you’ve got touring musicans, who could be on up to £1000 a day
Tech (road manager, guitar tech, drum tech etc)
Front of house, monitors, lighting, projection, camera operators- all of whom could be on up to £500 a day
Merchandise, catering, backstage foibles and quirks
Transport and drivers
Accommodation for crew and artist
Probably still leaves the artist with a few quid left over for a chip supper and a pint in the Ship and Shovel on the way home.
Fish blogged about this a decade ago. That was pre-Brexit and perhaps when CDs were still just about a significant income stream, but it’s enlightening.
https://fishmusic.scot/touring/
I’ve read this before and even a decade ago, his crew were working very cheap. They must have really liked him because there was plenty of better paid work, which they may have done between Fish tours. I used to know theatre lighting guys who did corporate work to subsidise their theatre jobs. Not so much now though.
Plus, the elephant in the room that means a muso touring mainland Europe incurs extra expense to play in the UK. Br*x*t bonus!
I’m not up to date on the trucking rules but if London were the only two UK dates then an EU truck and driver would be within the permitted number of truck movements in the UK. Some of the specialist companies have offices and yards in Ireland because although it is an extra expense, it allows them access to the EU market. Would still need a carnet though.
@davebigpicture I work in freight and this carnet issue is a red herring. It costs about £200 for the duration of the tour.
It will not break the bank.
In UK i believe he is employing an orchestra which would be expensive – I assume he might not be taking them to Europe. That would make a big difference.
Nathalie Merchant is touring the UK in the autumn and her tickers are £ 50, Bonnie Raitt next week £ 45.00. Two artists I would much rather see.
Is he really going to sell out at those prices?
Brian is taking the orchestra with him to his continental dates, @SteveT
https://pitchfork.com/news/brian-eno-announces-first-ever-solo-tour/
If that is the case then the reported Venice ticket prices I would suggest are very cheap.
Still lots of work behind the scenes though, not just the payment to the carnet office. On a large tour, equipment from multiple suppliers will have to be listed and allocated to specific trucks. Trucking companies will coordinate this but, of course, charge for the service. I believe that anything other than personal instruments carried on a tour bus needs a carnet so this affects most EU tours, big or small. It’s easier now everything is computerised and barcoded rather than when carnets had to be manually typed and checked but it’s still a pain in the arse and makes the preparation of the job longer.
Yes but artists touring USA and Canada would need carnets and always have done.
I was and am a big remainer but this argument first surfaced from the remain camp and is actually inaccurate.
I don’t work music but as I understand it, it would be unusual for American acts to ship PA, lights and video from the US. Instruments, some backline and effects pedals, mics etc maybe.
With orchestras on pop/rock tours, it’s common practice to use local orchestras in different countries. There are good professional orchestras everywhere, working at local union rates and capable of doing a really good job if the score is good and enough rehearsal is scheduled and paid for. Not cheap, but a hell of a lot cheaper than bringing your own orchestra on tour.
Orchestras are always glad to be employed when available.
Brian has said that producing Coldplay was his retirement fund.
Rather than, say, U2? He clearly enjoys having plenty of money, if he wanted to charge, say, 30-50 quid he probably could get away with it. Saying that 65 quid for a fairly well known in a small venue is not outrageous these days. Not exactly sure what he does when he plays “live” though
He thinks big and important thoughts, and we observe the synapses at work.
@Black-Type
I’ve just shuffled my pack of Oblique Strategies cards and the one that
came out on top said “give a bald man 65 of your English pounds”
(:
“He clearly enjoys having plenty of money,”
You say that like it’s a criticism, @dai – wouldn’t most people if they had the opportunity? Anyway, I’m not sure the “idea of Eno” would work if he presented a “blue collar, man of the people” aspect.
Apologies in advance, if I have misread your intentions…
Not at all @fitterstoke, a quick search reckons he is worth 60 million dollars. Do I think he should then lower his prices? Not at all, he will get what he’s worth. If he’s charging too much then the shows won’t sell out.
Apols, I thought you were heading into “Free Music! Tear down the fences! Artists shouldn’t be bread-heads!” territory.
On another matter: I did a very quick search and found that Bruce is worth about $700M (that’s Springsteen, not Fiona). What were his recent ticket prices like, in comparison?
Coldplay came later, and I got the impression that he was significantly more enthused by working with U2, Coldplay being purely for financial considerations.
Try down here in Oz. 2-400 standard and not uncommon to have less staging or even fewer musicians – usually brass or backing vocals.
All blamed on the distance and attendant cost.
Mrs Steady looked into tickets for Pulp at the Castlefield Bowl in Manchester next month. £75!
I think many here are expecting ticket prices to be like they were in the good old days. Then tours would often make a loss as corresponding album sales would increase because of the tour. That doesn’t happen any more so for Jarvis Cocker to maintain his customary lifestyle in his lovely French chateau (Please check this – Ed) he has to charge a lot more. You would think stadium prices would be lower though, but it the demand is there to pay 75 quid then better it goes mostly to the artist rather than ticket touts.
Best example right now is The Cure, you can get nosebleed tickets for $30 (arenas) and Robert Smith stepped in to stop Ticketnaster charging the same amount again (or more) in “fees”. Also online resales must be at face value. They are probably still selling tickets worth a million dollars or so per show so I doubt anyone is going hungry.
The flip side to all this is, where they are still going, grass-roots venues are thriving.
I went to a gig in the back room of a pub last week. Three local acts, two were “class of 2003” and half the other were old lags of similar mileage.
It was flipping great. Happy to pay a tenner. Viewing them from half a mile away, on a big screen, with 50,000 others would not have improved my enjoyment.
Stuff arena gigs and support your local toilet circuit venue instead, while you still can.
Not all stadium seats are miles away. In fact I have often had much better views at stadiums than even theatres. But of course those seats (or standing in a pit) cost more than the nosebleed ones
Shout out for:
Concorde 2 , Brighton
The Hairy Dog, Derby
Brudnell Social Club, Leeds
Rescue Rooms, Nottingham
Subterranea, London
Nells, London
Good sound, reasonable bar, tickets £20 – £30
Over the last four or five years, I’ve been to the Rescue Rooms almost as much as I’ve been to the Portland Arms, despite it being 90 minutes further away. Excellent.
Edit: the bar at Subterranea was shit.
I haven’t been there since I saw ACR in about 1992.
I doubt they’ve changed the barrel or cleaned the pipes since.
Nells and Subterranea are both good smallish venues. The long steep staircase at Nells is a little scary on the way out, after a few beers. I believe Nells is run by the guy who started up the Mean Fiddler in the old days.
Vince Power. IIRC, he owns Dingwalls too plus the tiny Fiddler in Kilburn.
Yes, that’s him.
My Steely Dan coverband pals absolutely smashed it at Nells at the end of February, so he’s booked them into Dingwalls in September to see how they do there.
He took over the Reading Festival in the late 80s and turned it from a Rock festival where Meatloaf, Bonnie Tyler & Deacon Blue got showered in mud & bottles of piss into an Indie thing.
Luckily for me, as I was an Indie Kid starting university there in 1988. I still struggle with ver ‘Loaf.
Richard Thompson music tour this month: Newcastle £37.60 nearest venue London Ally Pally £52.40 though I saw some earlier at about £75.00. (It would have been good to see him in Muswell Hill)
Luckily he is appearing at Bradford Literature Festival with Songbook, cost for we over 60s £1.
As has been pointed out on another thread his acoustic gigs don’t vary much so I’m not too bothered at missing having to listen to VBL again.
I was going to give it a miss because Ally Pally is tricky to reach for me and as you say even the cheaper tickets are over £50. A change of plans for that week now means we can fit in an overnight stay in Brighton and see him at Brighton Dome instead (£35).
We could’ve walked to Ally Pally from the family home in MH including free stay, I’m still not persuaded.
I’ve just had a look at Ally Pally and it’s at least 90% sold out, so others have deeper pockets than we do. I saw him play a short afternoon festival slot and a full indoor gig last year (and a third time if you count him providing the accompaniment to Zara’s one woman play in a room above a pub in Highgate) so I’m up to date with him, but then given his age and how much time he spends in the states there’s no telling how many more chances I’ll get. But I still would have given this tour a miss if a combination of circumstances hadn’t made the Brighton gig look good.
No interested in watching him acoustic again – his electric band is where he excels and sorry Richard but your missus cant sing as well as your ex-missus.
Unfortunately I don’t like what he does with the electric band either so I’m stuffed on both fronts.
His between-song banter is normally pretty good
Which is why I’m looking forward to the Bradford Literature Festival as there should be much talking.
To be contrary, that’s the bit I normally enjoy least! He’s famously rather retiring and has to amp up what extroversion has access to for his stage persona. The banter always seems forced and the jokes are pretty corny too (though I still get a chuckle out of the Robert Plant line).
I have a theory that if he emphasised his famously Doom and Gloom reputation rather than being jokey on stage it could have enhanced his reputation among the wider public. He might have been seen as a guitar virtuoso version of Nick Cave that everyone would take oh so seriously, though I don’t think it would have done his own mental health much good.
I’m noticing rising prices which are putting me off buying tickets.
We have The Hexagon in Reading which is not a great venue for sound, but at £20/£25 a pop, one is prepared for it. But at £40/£50 a go, then I’m inclined to look at a bigger, better sounding venue.
Even smaller venues (Sub89 in the same town) with about 600 capacity is asking nearly £30 a show – and that’s for a tribute act.
Maybe I’m a tight arse, but £40 for the Danny Baker show was – I though – a bit much
(perhaps I need to re-calibrate my expectations)
We are told Live Music is now the prime source of income for bands – no doubt it is, but the costs are getting a bit high in local (smaller) venues
@Lunaman where did you see the prices for Venice. I can’t find prices anywhere for all the other European concerts? They only say TBC. The site for the Venice one says it opens tomorrow and prices may vary due to demand.
Eno is appearing with an orchestra, so that should be taken into account in looking at the prices, but having said that, the London tickets do seem at the high end for that kind of concert.
But I do wonder if demand is the main factor in pricing. London is a city of 8 million people, Venice 250,000. Aren’t you more likely to have more Eno fans in London, and so more demand, which he can cash in on? And possibly he’s a bigger name in the UK than in Italy.
As you say, adding an orchestra will pump up the cost. The irony is that the RFH is viewed by many classical fans as having problematic acoustics.
Another irony is that it’s difficult to imagine people paying top dollar to go and see ENO in the 70s, when his solo profile as a performer was arguably at its height. I supect he just wouldn’t have been considered much of a live draw.
In fairness, regardless of how big they were, hardly any bands or solo acts had the clout to charge top dollar for gig tickets back in the 70s.
@hubert-rawlinson Here is the link –
https://www.labiennale.org/en/music/2023/information#tickets
Thanks @Lunaman
Though if you click through the link the Eno event is shown as ‘sales suspended’, though the one below it is available.
Ticket prices have definitely risen since Covid, particularly for big ‘event’ shows. It’s a combination of factors. Costs have risen significantly, whether that be venue costs, lighting and sound, trucking etc so the margin for the artist may not be much higher than it ever was. Then, in the case of this concert there is the cost of an orchestra. Looks like the same orchestra is doing all the dates. I suspect it will be a 30-40 piece rather than a full symphony orchestra, but nonetheless taking that many people on the road plus all their gear – and, crucially, post Brexit, bringing them into the UK with all the admin that entails – will be expensive.
And, above all, it’s about market forces. If they think they can get a high price they will charge it. This particular event has scarcity value – Eno hasn’t toured much before; this show is only (at the moment anyway) doing 6 performances, and only 2 in the UK. I think it will fly out, and if it doesn’t they will re-calibrate the pricing accordingly (extending the number of cheaper seats for example). Personally, I don’t blame anyone for charging what they reckon is the market rate for their show. However the problem with it is that it takes money that might have gone to other shows. I think we can see that people are willing to shell out 3 figure sums for a ticket for a big show they really want to see, but then are not going to smaller, mid-price shows that they might otherwise have gone to. So artists at the smaller end of things end up suffering.
Looking at the tour, I see the Venice gig is part of a festival of contemporary music, so I suspect there is some heavy subsidy helping to prop it up. By contrast Paris and Berlin both have top prices around 200 euros, so it isn’t just the UK.
You raise an interesting point there, BB. But do these big-ticket shows really take money away from grass-roots gigs? I think there are people who go to one or the other, but not many who go to both.
Because (a) I like to see the whites of their eyes (b) my health on the day can’t be relied upon (c) I
am a tight gitappreciate good value for money, I rarely spend more than 25 quid on anything.I do
Me too, although I would far rather go to a smaller show like Robyn Hitchcock at Whelans or Wilco in the Olympia than Bruce at RDS
Sadly, even theatre gigs like VTM at the Olympia are now costing over £10.
Entailing each-way road, and rail journeys plus an overnight stay in Dublin, even a £30 show like RH ends up costing around £300. All of which means I can only really justify one show a month.
With a lot of the tentpole acts surely nearing the end of their touring careers should be seeing more smaller shows in future
Fair challenge Steve. I don’t have any empirical evidence, just a sense that when finances are tight, people still want to spend but they have to make choices. And I sense that the choices they are making are that absolutely they will go to Springsteen, or Taylor Swift, or an artist they would deem as a ‘must see’ at smaller scales, irrespective of ticket price, but that then they won’t go as much to artists that they might put in the ‘would be quite interested to go’ category. This is cod psychology, but I also think that when people are going out right now, in these dire times, they are looking for a nailed on guarantee that they are going to have a great time. So they go with what they know rather than take chances. This could, of course, all be complete bollocks…
It applies to the big gigs too. I got tickets for Bruce then Peter Gabriel announce his tour. Would love to have gone but not at those prices when I had just shelled out for Bruce.
I am going to Black Deer -,£115 for 3 nights and an absolute stellar line up.
My point could also be an equal quantity of bollocks, of course.
More often than not, I’m the soundman, so I don’t pay at all. More often than not, I don’t get paid at all, either…
The Venice show being part of a contemporary music festival means the venue costs could well be completely removed from the equation. Also if there are quite a few different shows in the festival you get some economies of scale.
I just paid £91 for a ticket to a play (London Southbank) which seems a lot to me. My local amdram is about 15 quid.
Yes we’re seeing exactly the same in the theatre. I’ve just booked two tickets for Kenneth Branagh’s King Lear – £65 each for tickets right up in the gods – the good seats were more like £180.
Sky-high energy bills for medium to large venues, currently.
Really high staffing costs too. Especially since that recent fatal crush incident at Brixton Academy.
They can be cheaper if you get in early and choose carefully. We’re not frequent theatre goers but have seen Shirley Valentine from the upper balcony of The Duke of York and The Unfriend from the side of the balcony (two separate seats, so verging in a box) at The Criterion so far this year. Both times it was about £25 a ticket.
https://seatplan.com/ is useful for working out if the sight line is compromised from the cheap seats. Audibility can be an issue too. The last time we were at The Duke of York was for King Lear with Ian McKellen and even from the front row of the upper balcony we were struggling to hear. Sheridan Smith’s projection as Shirley Valentine was much better than Sir Ian’s as Lear.
I thought paying £125 each to see Led Zeppelin at the O2 was an awful lot back in 2007, but now looks an absolute bargain.
The worst bit for me….and here he goes again, you cry…. is that you decide to fork out for a ‘big’ gig and then you get a load of tossers getting pissed and yapping throughout.
It does make some Festivals look good value – Cropredy is £175 and has some terrific acts this year!
That’s one of the many reasons I like festivals, even though I really prefer pub gigs. Don’t like what’s on, or who is near you? Get up and go somewhere else.
Really? Cropredy is awful, even by recent standards.
Let’s be honest here guys, ticket prices are only going one way and in a lot of cases, the artists who can get away with charging them probably aren’t going to be coming around again.
On my abacus, Fiona is worth a lot more than Springsteen.
@Tiggerlion
You always were prone to abacussedness though, T
Arf!