The Afterword

Musings on the byways of popular culture

Menu

Navigation

You are here: Home / Forum / Two days to go to The Big Day…

Two days to go to The Big Day…

by 355 Comments

…it’s bonfire night and my dog will be in hell!!

Oh. There’s also something happening in America which could lead to civil war and have a seismic impact on the whole world.

How does The Afterword think it will go, from its comfy sofa an ocean away (On the whole)?

0

Comments

  1. My ear is nowhere near the ground when it comes to the US Election. I can only say what I want to happen, which is a decisive win for Harris largely due to Roe vs Wade. That seems to be a tangible benefit of having her there rather than him. She’s also not a lunatic and she collects records. The clincher for me was when she was asked about husband Doug’s musical tastes, she replied “Depeche Mode…that’s him”. A landslide, then.

  2. I’m hoping that Kamala defeats him beyond any doubt, but I have a feeling that it will probably end up being close enough for Orange Jesus and his most rabid supporters to cry “Fix! Rigged system! Cheats!” and drag out the decision with endless chaos. But a massive majority for KH might cut down on at least some of the claims that he’s been hard done by, and convince some of the more moderate Republicans to stay home if there’s any possibility of a repeat of January 6.

    Lately, it does seem that he’s unravelling. Some of his speeches have degenerated into out-and-out incoherent gibberish rather than just weird nonsense, and that whole garbage man cosplay, where he struggled to even get into the truck that then went slowly in circles around a runway, probably didn’t land the way his lackeys/enablers hoped.

    Also, “I’m going to protect women whether they like it or not” can’t have helped him much. And I wonder if the talk of mass deportations, references to Hitler, “I’m going to be a dictator on my first day”, etc., are maybe, just maybe, building up too clear a picture in moderate Republicans’ heads of what he might really be like if he’s given another four years.

    Fingers crossed that they think taking a chance with Harris has got to be better than that.

  3. Dreading it, but feel the orange ogre will do it. And to be honest, if after all the past decade or so has revealed about this man, America still votes for him, honestly, America deserves him. Listening to a Trumpista being interviewed on Radio 4 this morning, foreign policy will essentially be appeasing Putin and Netanyahu and adopting a “strategic ambiguity” on China/Taiwan as well as imposing yer swingeing tariffs.

  4. There are a lot of Indian people in my neighbourhood, so there have been a lot of Diwali fireworks over the last week or so. Now the bonfire night malarkey starts up. Dog disgruntled.

    • There aren’t many Indian people where I live but fireworks have still been going off for over a week, including late into the night. My dog is more than disgruntled. FFS

      • Wilma, my jackschit, has always feared fireworks, becoming a quivering wreck. Likewise thunderstorms. Of late she seems less bothered. Getting finally used to them or going deaf? At 12, likely the latter.

        • My sister’s little terrier-cross bitch is totally indifferent to firework noise, being pretty close to stone deaf as well as half-blind. Her other dog, a golden labrador bitch, will probably fret a bit, but the fact that the other dog, who she’s been with since early pup days, is unperturbed will keep her calm.

          Lots of fireworks here for the last few days. Particularly yesterday early evening and then again later.
          I assume the earlier one was for the benefit of somebody’s kids and the later, much louder one was for adults and teens to drink beer to.
          There’s an old-established Hindu community in this part of my town, so always plenty of fireworks at this time of year.

          As regards the US election, I’m hoping for a Harris/Democrats win but believe it’ll be close, whichever way it goes. There may well be serious disorder over there if Trump loses narrowly. Trade wars, escalation of conflict and a slow dive for the world economy if Trump wins and does what he says he wants to do.

    • My dog who is getting old and deaf is closer to PG Wodehouse’s memorable sentence – ‘I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.’

  5. I’m well hooked by the whole drama. The Rest is Politics US is a great way of keeping up with the way it’s panning out – Anthony Scaramucci is the co host and worked for Trump in the last election and has a brilliant insight into his warped mind.
    This is going to be the closest election ever and Trump has blinked first by complaining already that early votes have been rigged. If he loses there will be trouble a plenty.
    It all comes down to turnout and that is where I think the Democrats have the advantage by having a huge army of volunteers who will try and physically get their people to the voting booths. Also there is more likelihood of young female (mainly Harris leaning) voters turning out than young male (main for Trump).
    So get your tin hats on and take cover is my recommendation!

  6. I watched a recent debate between Sam Harris (no, me neither) and Ben Shapiro titled ‘Trump or Kamala?’ Odd to use surname vs name like that. But the debate wasn’t really Trump vs Kamala anyway, it was ‘Anti-Trump vs Pro-Trump’.
    It’s very, very easy to criticise Trump, far more difficult to defend him with any intelligence, as Shapiro does in the debate. Whereas Sam Harris completely fails to sell K. Harris. Doesn’t even attempt to. He opens saying he’d prefer anyone, even a “more normal” Republican, to Trump and that’s basically his whole argument (albeit a reasonable argument in many ways).
    I’ve always found Shapiro a very interesting and intelligent speaker, despite personally disagreeing with him on pretty much everything he says. Though I’m not sure that I disagree with his belief that a second Trump term is unlikely to differ radically from the first Trump term, regardless of all the hyperbole, nor with his argument that Trump’s foreign policy, such as it was, proved to be the best of any President in Shapiro’s lifetime.
    I hope Trump loses as, like Johnson in Britain, he is clearly completely unfit for high office. But other than stopping Trump, I couldn’t really care less about a K. Harris victory. She doesn’t inspire any confidence apart from the fact that, unlike Trump, she seems sane. But most importantly, I think that with having a Democrat in the White House there would be more pressure from within the government to try and curtail Israel.

  7. If Trump wins and leaning into my pessimistic nature I think he very well might by legitimate means or not. If he follows through on what he has already said about discontinuing support for Ukraine to highlight just one thing and extrapolating a possible scenario from that then it’s going to get very, very precarious for us all.The USA is the major contributor of support to the Ukraine and it’s unlikely that the UK or others will take up the slack so Ukraine will fall. What does Putin do then? He has already made it clear that he wants the Baltic States back under his control. A Trump led USA will not honour it’s obligation to NATO he has already made clear his feelings about NATO so if Putin adopts a military position to say Estonia which is part of NATO what happens then? Do we and the rest of NATO square up to Russia without the USA?
    All this is of course speculation but I don’t believe it’s too far fetched anymore and it is of course only one aspect of the shitshow that could emerge from a Trump victory.
    I have never wanted to be more wrong about anything than this in my life.

      • Once, if somebody had suggested that real estate “mogul” and TV show goon Donald Trump could conceivably have a hand in starting World War III, people would have thought them mad. What a sorry state of affairs that this prospect could become a reality. C’mon Kamala!

    • @pencilsqueezer being more optimistic by nature I am sure sanity will prevail and that Harris will get elected.
      Should the unthinkable happen then in answer to your question I think NATO would have no choice but to support the Baltic States. However I do not believe Russia is strong enough for another adventure nor do I believe either China or the US generals would turn a blind eye to possible developments.
      Still a very scary proposition though

      • Should Trump win and pull the plug on aid to Ukraine, then Zelensky would have to do a deal with Putin and lose The Donbas to Russia.
        Even Putin wouldn’t then push NATO by trying the same thing on with the ex-Soviet states that are now NATO members, because NATO would retaliate, albeit reluctantly.

      • I entirely agree with this, having lived and worked in Russia for the past three years. I do think NATO, in the form of the US, would intervene if the Baltic States were attacked. Also agree that Russia has no appetite for this at all, they will have their hands full with Ukraine resistance if/when they do take full control of all or some of it, ( as well as even more sanctions) and as we all know they’ve struggled to get anywhere in Ukraine for almost 3 years. Taking on the likes of Finland and Poland is a huge further step militarily and running the risk of frightening their Protective Big Brother China into dissuading them. Leaving them with North Korea’s support. Putin may fancy it, but I really don’t think his circle, or the general population would stand it. Trump’s sheer unpredictability will also be a factor in Putin’s next steps.

          • His logic being that rather than relying on US military resources for their defence, Its NATO partners should pay far more to protect themselves against aggressors than the derisory amounts they currently do.

            Look up defence spending levels for NATO countries and you’ll see that this is one of those rare occasions where his point is a valid one.

            Given that Putin is in no position to start attacking anyone in the NATO alliance, Trump’s isolationist tendencies mean his reaction/lack of reaction to a Chinese invasion of Taiwan is a far bigger worry.

            • Well the US has been paying the lion’s share since 1949 without (AFAIK) complaining all that much; same goes for being the world’s policeman in general. The decision in 2014 to up the contribution to 2% of GDP presumably had something to do with the US; the arrival of the former Eastern Bloc countries will have skewed the figures, at least for the time being, but more and more countries are in fact meeting the target. If anybody except Trump thinks that 2% is insufficient, then that suggests a process of renegotiation, rather than flouncing out altogether.

              But it’s not just about tanks and drones. Interesting article here about whether and how NATO countries are pulling their weight according to various metrics, referring back to the original NATO articles of association. The figures come out differently.
              https://www.csis.org/analysis/pulling-their-weight-data-nato-responsibility-sharing

              • If this were a poker game, the US would be the house/banker. Worryingly for NATO members, on Tuesday night the banker changed the rules and effectively upended the table.

                Given the uncertain state of the world ahead of Trump’s second term, NATO members would be wise to forget the cosy certainties of the last 75 years, and start planning for what may well happen from 2025 onwards.

                If there’s one bright spot in all this it’s that there is usually a yawning chasm between what Trump says and what he actually does. On a less positive note, unlike during his first term, he almost certainly won’t have calmer, more reasoned voices around to temper his behavior.

                • The USA’s dominance of NATO facilitates it’s dominance of NATO policy and means that it’s military bases in many of the member countries are a given. If Trump were to take the USA out of NATO, what would be the justification for all of those nominally-sovereign-but practically-American bases?

                  • Hard to say.

                    In the UK, most (all?) of the US bases were granted on 99-year leases during 1939 or 1940. The leases were granted in exchange for a bunch of destroyers and other military equipment at a time when isolationists were preventing FDR from offering the UK his full scale support.

                    While you could easily see Trump go full tonto isolationist and start threatening to close these bases down, Congress would presumably see the facilities’ strategic value and do its best to curb his worst excesses.

                    At the same time, who knows what will happen in the UK if someone like Farage (on the far right) or Corbyn (on the far left) got into power.

                    Like the Chinese curse has it, may you live in interesting times

  8. I’m very worried but I think Kamala will win comfortably though Trump will insist he’s won before all the counts are complete (and probably after too). But this may be hope over experience speaking.

    Anyone staying up?

  9. Well, I live a 45 minute drive away from the US and I am dreading it. I have friends who say they won’t visit the US again if Trump wins, as long as he is in power. That’ll show him.

    However I have faith that Harris will win. Worst case scenario may be an almost dead heat though with Harris marginally in front when US democracy could be under threat.

    I was reminded by my weekly email from Jeff Tweedy that full democracy in the US is new and fragile. Only the Voting Rights act of 1965 allowed all eligible US citizens to vote

  10. Honestly it’s just too close to call except the bookies clearly favour Trump. It’s down to last minute decisions in 7 states … possibly even one or two counties. Will they see Trump as the insane madman he is (his core vote is cast in stone as always) or will they see Harris as poor on policies? If it’s a marginal win for Harris trump already has legal teams ready to fight in all key states …. It’s gonna be beyond interesting

  13. I think there’s good evidence that the likelihood of Trump winning is being egged up to soften the Harris vote (“there’s no point”) and support the stolen election narrative after.

  14. Tragic that such an important decision at what is a pivotal time in world history should come
    down to such a piss-poor choice of candidates – a seeming narcissistic sociopath and a political lightweight whose biggest selling point seems to be that she isn’t the narcissistic sociopath
    she’s running against.

    Think the Democrats should hang their heads in shame for not following Nancy Pelosi’s advice and compelling Biden to stand down before the primary season got underway at the start of the year. Had they done so, better qualified and more competent candidates (Newsom and Shapiro being two obvious examples) would have easily seen off Harris and ended up giving Trump a much harder ride.

    • I agree that the Dems have been pretty weak in letting the situation drag on for so long, knowing Biden would definitely lose.
      But is Harris a poor pick. I know next to nothing about US politics but she seems to tick an awful lot of boxes for a win I would have thought.

      • Jaygee seems to have a thing against Harris – before becoming VP she was seen as a rising star. When she became VP she did nothing of note. But in the US the role of the VP is to do nothing of note ( welcome schoolchildren to the White House, greet foreign leaders when they land etc) until as and when the President gets shot. So far in the campaign she has been very impressive ( which, to be fair, when put next to “Blow job with a microphone” Trump, is not that hard a feat).

        • @henpetsgi

          The only thing I’ve got against Harris – and I’m not alone, Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama are others who have been less than fulsome in their support – is that she is a total lightweight. Aside from abortion, her only policy of note is that she isn’t the narcissistic sociopath she’s running against.

          Far from being the “rising star” you claim her to be, her tilt at the 2020 Presidential election attracted so little support she was out of the race before the primaries even started.

          Rather than require her to do “nothing of note”, Biden entrusted her with looking into addressing the US’s immigration problem along its border with Mexico.

          She was so on the ball in that job, that she has visited the border just twice in her four years as VP. Despite calling Trump’s wall racist in 2020, she now supports a bipartisan bill that advocates more spending on that same wall.

          The big problem with daring to stick your head above the parapet and question Harris’s suitability for a hugely important job at a critical juncture in human history is that no matter how you decry Trump, you are instantly demonized as tacitly wanting him to win.

          While I’ve said it before, I’ll now say it again, voting for something or someone on the basis that it isn’t something or someone else rarely ends well

          • She might not be the best Dem option (by a long chalk), but to overlook the VEEP woman of colour in favour of another thick-haired middle-aged white man in a suit would have had serious repercussions with a number of sections of their voter base.

            I think the blue message of inclusivity and socioeconomic betterment is the best contrast to Trump’s ‘WASPs first/I will transform everything on day one and sort everything out with no problems’ hogwash. Although Project 25 is terrifying, and Trump will usher in a Handmaid’s Tale-style dystopia as quick as he can, the ‘Not going back’ message seems to resonate much better than Hilary Clinton’s messaging, such as it was. God I hope so.

            • It’s going to be a long, long time before American politics becomes truly representative of what’s really good for the country, rather than what suits the two parties.

              • We’ll just have to agree to differ, Jaygee. You think she’s lightweight,I think she’s at least middleweight. As I understand it (mainly from a politico friend in Colorado) she was told to do nothing re The Wall and is only a new convert because it just might get her some more votes.
                Whatever or whoever she really is, I hope and pray she wins. I’ll go for a featherweight President over Fatty Trump any day.

  15. As awful as Nixon was, it’s telling that despite widespread allegations of voter fraud in states such as Texas and Illinois contributing to his loss in 1960, he did the decent thing and did not challenge the result.

    Should Harris lose, I hope she and her people have the smarts to follow Bush Jr’s lead in 2000 and get her metaphorical arse in the seat behind the desk in Oval Office before the return of recounts and the dreaded hanging chads

  17. @Tiggerlion

    It’s actually rather sickmaking how Harris is now coming round to continuing
    with the border wall Trump was so roundly denounced for introducing in 2016.

    It’s also ironic that had Trump listened to Steve Bannon’s advice that he not debate Biden, he’d already have the election in the bag

    • A great message from a really good group. IIRC they released that before the last US election. I hoped then that that ballot would be the last we heard of Trump, yet here we are.

      I long for the day when he is no longer filling the news cycle with his awful, hateful rhetoric. I’m sick of the sight of him.

  20. We’ll never be free of him. The choices are either four more years of his presidency or the rest of his life bleating that he was robbed. Even when he dies, no matter how old, we’re going to have to put up with conspiracy theories about how he had finally been silenced. If he does win I can’t see him giving up power graciously in four years time. The Constitution expressly prohibits a third term but I don’t think he’ll see that as any sort of impediment to his staying in power.

  21. Good piece by Marilynne Robinson in the Observer, here’s an extract.

    ‘If Trump wins, I don’t think anyone, even he, knows what to expect. Everything depends on what he thinks from day to day are his interests, and how they can best be served. He has his pals and is very readily influenced by them, and by flattery. As a rhetorical tactic, he makes truly terrible threats involving mass deportations of immigrants, also concentration camps, prosecution of critics and political opponents, and he makes truly crazy threats, like bombing drug cartels in Mexico or giving Putin free rein in Europe. He desolates the landscape of rational expectation, then if he hasn’t done anything as dreadful as his threats, it is as if there were nothing in the malicious lunacy he offers to his crowds that should alarm us. Major Republican politicians support him on this basis. He has acquired vast latitude on the grounds that few actually believe anything he says.

    How do you challenge someone with no credibility? I have never heard of such a creature, or seen influence like his. He says hideous things about America to people swaddled in flags and they cheer themselves hoarse. He is neither Christian nor nationalist but he might stir up a crusade of sorts among people who aim these identities in order to fall into line with him. God knows how that would end.’

  22. While the only polls that matter are exit polls (findings released from 10pm onwards tomorrow night UK time), be interesting to see if the apparent recent tsunami of female support for Harris in Ohio indicates a nationwide trend.

    Telling that rather than crowing about how “bigly” he will win, Trump is already shouting “steal”

  24. US politics have been a terrifying source of anxiety, repeated through a willing media since about 2000. We all suffer. The whole ‘stolen election’ business didn’t originate with the current orange pillock. Then we get the regular budget showdowns transmitted minute-by-minute, and this sometimes seems to get more importance than anything in the UK.

    I hate all of this, but Trump is just the shit icing on the turd cake.

    I want the media to stop assaulting me with all of this.

    • Same as it ever was.

      Honestly, I would just try to tune a lot of it out. The value of information being provided from any given source, this week in particular, is super low: everyone is in campaign mode, everyone is trying to get a finger on the scale. The value of analysis is even lower – people have massively lost their shit, virtually no one seems to be thinking straight and there’s a self-perpetuating cycle of absolute hysteria underway that pretends to inform while doing the precise opposite.

      I’ve found it helpful to occasionally remind myself that I don’t actually live in the US, and nor do I live online. Seems to help keep things in the proper perspective.

  25. I do find the certainty of some posters impressive, that they can tell us what is going to happen according to various scenarios. I do read a lot of articles and I remain uncertain and do not know what will happen. I recall certainties here when it was Biden versus Trump, that the orange one would win. I believe in questioning and doubt. Maybe someone wants to start another thread with my comment as the heading, without asking me first. That was fun.

  27. As much as the only sane choice is Harris the electoral college system will let the evil bastard squeak in.

    But it’s worse than that. The evil bastard is a fat, unfit, mentally failing almost 80 year old. He will either die of natural causes soon or be 25th Amendment-ed by the younger evil bastards.

    Vance will be President. Soon.

  28. As Trump prepares to take his pledge of office next January he begins to convulse uncontrollably.

    The hugely crowd screams in terror as The Donald sloughs off his human carapace to reveal the hideous giant green lizard thing underneath.

    The thousands of casualties killed or maimed by the deadly jets of hot air that issue from Trumpzilla’s mouth include JD Vance whose beard catches fire and causes him to spontaneously combust.

    Continues for four more years…

    • Tommy Vance would have beem an excellent President.

      Forced listening by all of the population to rock music from 6-8 pm on a Friday evening (Eastern time).

      The Friday Night Connection could replace the National Lottery.

      And the top 10 tunes (dirges) of all time would nicely fit into a 2 hour show and include a Rush song, Stairway to Heaven and Whole Lotta Rosie.

      • I think I’ve read that exact same comment on Twitter. Or very similar. Can’t remember what that discussion was about though.

        Edit: Oh yeah, I remember now. It was every Twitter “discussion” ever.

      • And yet apparently it can be. In the debate I mention above, Sam Harris vs Ben Shapiro, Shapiro says “Trump is very obvious in his excesses. Democrats and the Democratic party and Kamala Harris are much more subtle in their excesses, but those excesses are no less dangerous. In fact, in some ways, I think they are more dangerous.” One of the “excesses” of the Democrats being in its so-called “woke” agenda (Shapiro specifically mentions Kamala Harris’s stance on transgender rights at one point). There’s very little I agree with Shapiro on, but I consider him a voice worth listening to (especially when compared to the majority of pro-Trump voices I’ve heard). As I don’t live in America it’s difficult to gauge the extent to which people might vote for Trump in order to put a halt to what they see as unwanted “identity politics and wokery”. I certainly don’t find the idea out of the question though. Seems Trump’s team don’t either.

  30. If Harris wins I believe we could be close to a second US civil war.

    US modern style played out for weeks in the law courts and media.

    With the odd Trump arranged thuggery Ala 6/01/21.

  33. Given the razor-thin margins between DT and KH, it’s odd how few people here and elsewhere are commenting on the potential impact of third party candidates – generally more likely to take votes off the Dems than the Reps.

    In 2016, the number of votes Green Party Candidate, Jill Stein won in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania (all three of them battleground states then and now) exceeded the margin between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

    Stein is running for the Greens again this year.

    With very few of Climate Change denier, DT’s supporters likely to vote for her, Stein’s inclusion on the ballot paper in Penn and other marginal states could well end up costing Harris the election.

    • I struggle to understand this. There are protests over the Democrats support of Israel and there are some who feel they can’t vote for Harris as a result. Do they think Trump would help Gaza more? He’d be right behind everything Netanyahu wants to do.

      • Exactly. Harris might not show much willingness to oppose Israel, but there are many in her party who would pressure her to do so. Of the 94 Members of Congress who voted for a ceasefire, all were Democrat, not one Republican.

        On a total side-track, it was big news here recently that, rather surprisingly, Giorgia Meloni has imposed a complete embargo on arms sales to Israel. I can’t find any mention of it in the British press.

      • Traditionally, mainstream third party candidates – think Ralph Nader in 2000 and 2004 and Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020 – have tended to take votes away from the Democrats rather than the Republicans. There was an argument at the time that Nader’s candidacy in 2000 cost Al Gore the election.

        My point above was not about the conflict in Gaza (although it seems, JS is winning votes from Arab voters), it was about environmental issues – an issue of far greater concern to the Dems than Trump who decries climate change as a “scam”.

        If you guys want to bring Gaza into the thread, please have at it, but include me out.

        • In 1992, the third candidate Ross Perot won an incredible 30.44% of the vote in Maine, beating George Bush Senior (30.39%) into third place in that state.

          • Forgot about him – he did very well – the Elon Musk of his day in many ways.
            Earlier still there was George Wallace who, IIRC carried a couple of Deep South states in the Goldwater – Johnson smackdown of 64.

            Just checked Wallace ran in 1968 and carried five states in the Deep South – most if not all of which would have gone to Tricky Dicky.

            He also ran for POTUS in 1972 only to have his campaign curtailed when he got shot and paralysed by IIRC Arnold Bremmer

  34. Jesus. I’ve just seen DJT simulate oral sex live onstage at a rally. I think he really might be suffering from dementia, that looks like the sort of disinhibition I’ve seen from other sufferers.

    Anyway I’ve told myself not to watch anything more that’s related to US politics today. See y’all on the other side….

  36. First exit polls – from NBC and AP

    Exit polls released by NBC News Tuesday found that ‘democracy’ was ranked as voters’ top issue in the 2024 election – narrowly beating out the economy.

    Meanwhile, the NBC poll found 51 percent of voters trust Trump on the economy, compared to 47 per cent for Harris. 72 percent of voters said they were ‘angry’ or ‘dissatisfied’ with the state of the nation in a bad sign for the vice president.

    Here’s a quick rundown of what the polls tell us:

    The Associated Press exit poll found 53 percent of voters were women, which was one point up from the exit poll in 2020. It also found 71 percent of voters were white, up from 67 percent in 2020

    Voters said the economy and immigration are the top issues facing the country, AP VoteCast found. The survey of more than 110,000 voters nationwide found a country mired in negativity and desperation

    In the key state of Pennsylvania, 83 percent of voters were white, up from 81 percent in 2020, the AP exit poll found. It found 9 percent of voters were black, down from 11 percent in 2020

    In Arizona, the number of Hispanic voters has surged. In 2020 only 19 percent of voters were Hispanic but according to the 2024 exit poll 26 percent of voters are Hispanic this time

    On a more worrying note, it’s being reported in the Graun that Trump’s advisers are urging him to claim victory early

  37. Not looking good, as of whatever time this is where you are. Trump’s on 207/91, that’s 207/270. 53.4/46.2 popular vote.

    Check out CNN’s West Wing music.

    • Unfortunately, the destructive aftermath of this particular landslide
      Is likely to be anything but small.

      The fact that the Reps have also taken the senate makes matters
      eve worse

  41. Classy lady, Dr Jill Biden.

    Despite being a medical professional who would have known
    more about her husband’s health than anyone, she did nothing
    to dissuade JB from abandoning his insane re-election campaign.

    Had she exercised her basic duty of care for the man she married
    before the primaries,Trump would almost certainly have faced a far more formidable opponent than KH.

    Now, the good doctor sends an even bigger fuck you to her husband’s party,
    her fellow Americans and the rest of the world by wearing a Republican red
    “power suit” when going out to vote.

    So much for “Do no harm”. Perhaps DT will appoint her Surgeon General

      • Mea culpa.

        Debunked jokes about the Hippocratic oath notwithstanding…

        She would still have had a better understanding of JB’s mental decline than almost anyone else and could/should have done her best to persuade him to stand down.

        The lasting impression she has created with her choice of outfit on election day is exactly as described in my earlier post.

        • Sorry Jaygee but speculating on what Jill Biden did or didn’t do seems to me to be pointless bordering on crass.

          The people accountable for this shit show are those who voted for Trump, not those who didn’t. I couldn’t care less what she wore – the US – and particularly women in the US – now have much more fundamental things to worry about.

    • Indeed. Trump is unique among later day Prezzes in that he doesn’t
      claim any Irish links in his family tree.

      As he famously also doesn’t drink, visits where he can be filmed downing pints of plain in the pub where his ancestors drank seem unlikely.

      The fact that he’s also the first President since – IIRC 1847 – not to own a dog is yet another reason to loathe him

            • Glad your dog is OK, T.

              Luckily, we don’t do Guy Fawkes Night in Roscommon so no probs for our two dogs and three cats.

              When a mate of mine who was over in early Nov a few years ago asked why there were no parties, I told him most people in Ireland took rather a dim view of celebrating Catholics being burnt to death.

              On a side note, yesterday was apparently St Leonard’s Day. As the patron saint of convicts, his intercessions are believed to have spared many a felon a spell in clink

              • It’s not just dogs & cats that hate loud bangs.
                I usually walk/limp to my local supermarket once a week to go grocery shopping. This however is becoming a trifle arduous so yesterday morning I decided to catch the bus. Just as I was stepping onto it a car backfired causing me to jump and miss my step. I fell. One minute upright the next horizontal. I banged my left ankle up and this morning my arthritic hips are complaining even more vigorously than usual. The bus driver couldn’t have been kinder though, helped me to my feet, retrieved my walking stick which went flying and dusted me down. I have avoided seeing my fall as predictive of the fall of western civilisation but it’s tempting.

                • A car backfired – is it 1952 where you are?

                  Seriously, that’s one of the worst things about getting old: scratch from a rose bush looks like you’ve been savaged by a lion. Bump your shin and the blue bruising looks like you’ve been hit by a cannonball. And a month later, it still hurts…

                  • I live on a Welsh council housing estate. Some of the locals don’t have particularly well maintained cars. I expected my ankle to be worse this morning but so far it’s just bloody sore. What I suffered most was damaged pride. I felt like such an incompetent nervy old fool.

                • Spare a thought for horses and ponies too. Every year it’s likely that one or two will die as a result of being frightened by the actions of unthinking morons letting off fireworks in their vicinity – and by vicinity I am talking about within audible range – quite some distance. Some people are just too lazy, selfish, or possibly downright stupid, to mention.

                  • Thanks Twang. Sitting quietly listening to a Ron Miles, Bill Frisell and Brian Blade live outing that was recorded back in 2011 and released this year on Blue Note called Old Main Chapel is putting my little world back on an even keel. Great jazz, lovely recording.

            • @tiggerlion – same here, just back from an aborted attempt at evening walk. Started off and all well then house in the street across began re enacting the 1945 fall of Dresden and dog lay flat and refused to budge. Heartily sick of fireworks.

  45. So mny takes coming our way from pundits and pollsters in the next 24 hours.
    Balls to them, it boils down to US is racist, misogynistic and stupid.
    Feel deeply sad, worried, and angry.

  46. It also seems the electoral college can’t be blamed this time. At time of writing he’s won the popular vote by over 5 million.

    I think a lot of us here had this inkling dread this would happen. It’s still astonishing though. He’s still a declining ignorant felon, glory though he may.

  48. They might have their reasons or fears – about the economy, immigrants, etc. – but I can’t understand how millions of people could ignore everything they know about Trump, his character, and his actions, and think that he is going to make their country better. And they can’t all believe that his handlers are going to rein him in this time.

    I’m on the other side of the Atlantic and I’m worried about the next four years. Given his past form and his campaign’s promises, how must a poor American needing healthcare, a woman who might need an abortion one day, an immigrant, or somebody who doesn’t quite fit the Republican norm be feeling today? If you’re not a Trump supporter, I imagine things must look pretty grim right now.

  49. I wish I could write that I’m at all surprised. I’m not. The writing has been on the wall for some time. If he and his fellow travellers enact only a small percentage of the crap they have been espousing then things are going to get very, how can I put it…difficult.

  52. Instead of blaming the voters the Democrats should take the long, hard look at themselves that was due after 2016 but never came. Trump has been almost as much of a disaster for the party’s ability to think clearly and critically as he has been for the Republicans.

    The reality is that the Democrats came into this race on the back foot, with the same affordability crisis that has seen governments handed their marching orders across the western world, an 80 year old incumbent in clear mental decline and the world on fire, probably largely in consequence of these two prevailing features.

    They’ve run a back foot campaign with a weak, untested candidate, and hoped that Trump would destroy himself so we can all go back to 2015. But there is no going back, There’s been a failure to self-criticise on their wing because any self criticism is received as tacit support for Trump (as will probably be the case with this comment).

    They’ve loudly proclaimed this to be the most consequential election in US history, while starting the campaign with a guy who can barely tie his own shoes and then bypassing any real vetting to hand the gig to the next shoo-in. We’ve heard again and again from Democrat-leaning commentators that the economy is good, ignoring the fact that regular people don’t give a shit what the stock market is doing or whether the headline rate of inflation is down when bread is costing them twice what it did.

    What we’re going to hear now, from an awful lot of people, is that America is racist and misogynistic, in which case the logical question is, I’m afraid, if you honestly believe that to be the case and the stakes were so high then why in God’s name was it a good idea to run a Black, female candidate?

    Or maybe it didn’t matter anyway. Personally, I thought the campaign was lost at that first debate, when it became crystal clear that the party was seriously asking for the re election of a man who can barely remember his opponent’s name. Trump is god awful, but – really – what kind of credibility do you expect after that?

    Ultimately? US elections – like most elections – are about economics. You can get Taylor and Beyoncé to back you, have your Brat summer and positive vibes, call your opponents weird and get giddy when it upsets them. But if you’re in office and people feel poorer than they did before you arrived then you better have something clever to say. The Democrats, this election, had nothing clever to say and demonstrated repeatedly that they’re living in a fantasy land.

    None of the above is an endorsement of Trump – he’s atrocious. Rather, it’s the output of several months of watching in frustration as the people we were supposed to rely on to stop Trump fumbled the ball over and over, cheering themselves on as they did so. Ugh.

    • You’re right I guess.
      Maybe my take on racist, misogynistic, thick Americans is wrong, or at least too simple.
      I just thought that enough people would care. That even though stuff was more expensive than a few years ago, they cared enough about what an obviously atrocious individual he is that they wouldn’t vote for him.

        • That’s a very convincing analysis, Bingo.

          “You better have something clever to say.” Even if Kamala had had something super-clever to say, I doubt it would have swayed voters who were voting based their private economy.

          “Trump is a business man. He’ll put things right.”

          Time will tell how true that is.

          Putin must be very happy today.

          • “Clever” is over-rated in the emotive class-war this has become. People struggling are focussed on their needs and have had enough of condescending or bossy educated middle classes who they have never appreciated. A vote for Trump is an insubordinate act, and shows how much the Dems have focussed on the wrong things.

    • Brilliant analysis, thanks. I read the Guardian, NYT and Atlantic pretty obsessively (in 2016 it was also Wash Post, New Yorker and NY Review of Books!) and I’ve seen no one posit, or even hint at, the perspective you put so eloquently.
      And I think your assessment is 100% correct. I suspect ppl like Bernie Sanders and AOC will particularly mourn those missed opportunities to take the party away from the ossified organisation represented by Clintons, Bidens, Kennedys, Pelosi, LBJ and maybe even Obama.
      As a result of the Democrats so badly mis-reading the electorate over the myriad factors that empower Trump, I wouldn’t be surprised if red states seceded within 15-20 years.

      • Cheers – that’s very kind.

        I think at some point they need to start talking to the electorate as they are, rather than as they wish they’d be. The world has changed so much in the last decade, but it’s the same old playbook, the same tendency to tell voters that their concerns aren’t actually their concerns.

    • Your thoughts have been my thoughts Bingo. Biden should have stood down much earlier. However I still believe this outcome would have been likely even if he had put country before ego. The direction of travel is not encouraging and not just in the USA. It’s been noticeable for some years. I’m glad I’m not young anymore.

    • Regarding the suspicion that America is largely populated by racists and misogynists, one could easily ask that if you honestly believe that to be the case and the stakes are so high then why in God’s name would it not be a good idea to run a white male misogynist as a candidate? On the basis of that demographic analysis, the Republicans didn’t even have to blink – they were on to a winning formula from the get-go. Which kind of asks what on earth the ‘something clever’ could have been that the Democrats were supposed to have come up with which would reach those sorts of voters.

        • Sure, but from where I’m sitting it looks to me like the Republications do think that way. They recognise their own prejudices in the hordes who vote for them.

          So I wonder what clever thing the Democrats might have come up with, notwithstanding the implication that they are in a fantasy land where they think running a Black, female candidate is the best thing to do.

    • Who is in charge of the Democrats? Do they have some type of structure or committee that decides what they are about and who should represent them? I suppose when there is a Democrat President, they have a major say but was Nancy Pelosi the most important decision maker during Trump’s last presidency?

    • I also think that the tacit support of genocide in Gaza was an awful look for the Biden administration. And Harris did not distance herself away from that at all, probably she credibly couldn’t. Republicans call Democrats left wing, but it’s all relative. Many policies from the Biden administration would be considered right wing in European countries. Even Obama as president was less liberal than one would have expected.

      As for the race or gender card, not sure. It’s interesting to me that only one of the two major parties in the UK has had female leaders (3, with 2 being Prime Minister), now a black leader and also an Asian PM. The “left wing” Labour party has centuries of white mainly middle class, middle aged leaders. Republican party has pretty high support amongst Asians and, it now appears, Hispanics.

        • A bit like the South Asians etc. over here who vote Tory and think immigration has got out of control.
          Having got themselves a comfortable settled life here, they think too many new immigrants could make them poor again.

            • They don’t see it like that, though.
              There’s a cartoon I can’t find right now of a Murdoch-lookalike sitting at a table with a plate piled high with cookies. With him at the table are a man in a hardhat with a single cookie on his plate and another less Anglo-Saxon-looking man with an empty plate. The Murdoch-lookalike is saying to hardhat-man “Watch out, that immigrant wants to take your cookie.”
              Divide and rule. Works every time.

              • Very true. My parents and a lot of my extended family migrated to the UK from India and Pakistan in the 1960s and 1970s. My dad was a doctor and like thousands like him, decided to be a doctor in the UK instead of Pakistan. It’s an aspirational mindset, which in his case and many others in may family, evolved once settled here in the late 1970s into true blue Tory cheerleading.

                There was definitely the sense with him and his cohort, that he’d come over here. done well and now the successive waves of migrants coming over were somehow snapping at his heels.

                  • Absolutely. I am effectively an immigrant having initially moved to Canada for personal reasons. I work with a number of people who moved here for their career, and like me now have Canadian citizenship. Some of them have pretty extreme right wing views on such subjects. Surprising, but there you go.

            • Well, this is the problem. If Trump was such a staunch advocate of equal rights for all, irrespective of origin, then would his followers feel so empowered to stirring up racial tensions, be it making gags about Puerto Rica to rhetoric about banning Muslim refugees? One can argue that he personally doesn’t “hate” immigrants but it is moot when his words and actions clearly inspire others to express their own visceral hatred.

          • I don’t suppose he hates them. He just despises them like he does anyone* who is not useful to the advancement of Donald Trump’s interests.

            *Liberals, feminists, Democrats etc. etc.

  56. I think as simple as this, many Americans are worse off financially now than in 2020. This is probably the case for most nations in the post Covid era. Biden was not an inspiring leader, a lot of current economic issues are out of his control, but he got the blame. People vote selfishly for what they think will help them financially, always been the case and they have spoken

    The only positive is we already had 4 years of Trump so it’s not a complete unknown. We kind of know what we are going to get. It was hideous but the world survived. The world is much more fucked up now than it was in 2016 though. Also, no civil war (yet).

    Democrats now have 4 years to come up with a credible candidate against, presumably, Vance. There will also be mid terms before that and they will need to try and get back control of the Senate. Harris was a poor candidate

    • The difference now is that more MAGA people are in his team, they have more power and can do more of what they want. Trump wants the Kennedy oddball to run health, with national abortion ban and anti-vaccine policies. Remains to be seen how much of these Trump wishes are fulfilled.

  60. Trump is a halfwit but not surprised in the slightest he won. He’s got the Boris benefit of being able to communicate to your average Joe. So they just ignore all the morally bankrupt aspects of their character. He didn’t do anything disastrous first time round but he’s not going to be able to deliver what he’s promised this time for sure, if he goes around slapping tariffs on everything inflation will continue
    All about his ego

    Harris was not a strong enough candidate, if Biden had retired and they got a credible candidate in they might have won. In many states Trump wasn’t that far ahead, even against a no hoper like Harris. She seems very nice but nice isn’t president of the US

    The world not going to end, but I’ll be interested to see if he can actually do anything or they just totter along in a mixture of inertia due to incompetence like last time

    • I’m properly worried. As commentators have said en masse today, Harris ran on hope beating fear, and the people chose fear.

      Since Trump decided to run again there’s a far more organised bunch of MAGA folk behind him, responsible for Project 25 and recruiting hundreds of on-message staffers from the bros in right-wing campuses. Some of his more excessive ideas may be staved off, but Trump’s bunch are now about absolute loyalty. We won’t be seeing the constant slew of sackings and excommunications of his first term. Project 25 plan to extend this demand for Trump loyalty to local government, federal government, senior military… everything. The possibility of some real Handmaid’s Tale-style shit going down is very real.

      Remember, the history of Atwood’s dystopia begins with a confected terrorist threat by a right-wing government, followed by weaponisation of the police and a steady erosion of rights for anyone who isn’t a white man, under the guise of religious paternalism. And here we are.

    • Might have to accept, alas, that a lot of that is accurate.

      As an aside, I’m sure there’s a correlation between ‘number of slebs behind a campaign’ and ‘defeated campaigns’. See ‘Red Wedge’ in the dire.

      I did say very early on… Springsteen etc. stay out of it, well-meaning though you may be, you do not help.

      • 100% agree.sadly, the celebs are too far up themselves and too busy spouting off to listen

        Ricky Gervase did a very, very funny meme about this a while back.

  62. Well, this is very bad. As I told my son, who in pieces about this, all we can do is focus on the the things we can control and do.

    In his last Presidency, they were one vote from overturning the ACA. That’s the only thing that guarantees I can get access to medical insurance. Why is that important, you ask? Because insulin, insulin pumps, and all the rest of the stuff that goes along with this fun condition is really fucking expensive. Insurers prior to the ACA had the ability to decline people with pre existing conditions. That was one vote from being over turned – and John McCain is dead now.

    I hope there’s a rebellion at the DNC, and the old guard get turfed out. There’s too many people concentrating on just having their own power, and worrying about the good of the party a long distant second.

    I’ve never been a member of a political party in my life, although I’ve always voted when legal so to do. Now I’m thinking about volunteering when we PCS home next year.

  63. An interesting editorial on the Americana UK website yesterday, some of which I have quoted below.

    “You know what? I would love to just not think about the United States any more. The whole continual psychodrama is just exhausting and I often think that’s it’s genuinely one of the last Western countries on earth I’d like to live in. But editing a website around Americana music makes that an impossibility, so I think we do have to say something at this juncture and clarify where we stand. Make no mistake, the results today are devastating not just for many Americans but for millions of people around the world. It is difficult to see how the US as an entity will continue as a democracy and not just end up like a real-life version of The Handmaid’s Tale (and this is said with no hyperbole at all). In terms of freedom of the press, the judicial system, future elections, there is nothing on the horizon for years to come now that isn’t relentlessly bleak.

    And yes, there are many people who are saying it’s time to live without America, which again would be a bit difficult for us as an Americana website, but anyway the impact of US policies going forward on a range of issues from climate change to support for authoritarian regimes is something it’s impossible to escape. We all have to live with this and the far-reaching consequences of what happened overnight.

    I think the thing I would say on a personal note is this, and I realise this point has been made plenty of times by other people already today (not least by Bernie Sanders)* but regardless – liberalism as a philosophy is finished. Politicians like Tim Walz seem like perfectly affable figures, but 50 years of declining living standards facilitated by both major parties in the US has led us to this. The only protective factor against right-wing populism is a massive redistribution of wealth from the richest in society to ordinary working people, and those who for whatever reason aren’t able to work, which undoes some of the damage of this whole destructive project. If this isn’t centrists’ wake-up call that their beloved model is broken then seriously what the fuck is it going to take? It’s socialism or barbarism folks – and if the word socialism has too many connotations for you, then call it what you like. But people’s lives need to materially improve significantly if we want to avoid full on fascism, tinkering is not going to cut it. Labour won a majority on 33% of the vote here in July and having since cut fuel allowances, maintained benefit caps and actually increased the cost of some things like bus fares (!) are already less popular in some polling than the despised Tories. It’s broken. It’s time to say goodbye to a failed project.

    (It’s also worth noting AIPAC’s influence on this election, an organisation that is a cancer-eating away at the heart of US democracy and one which has been for many years. For all the focus on foreign interference with elections from Russia, there’s a bad faith actor with far greater impact hiding in plain sight.)”

      • When Labour were soundly beaten, at least in part because a fair number of voters didn’t want to vote for people they felt didn’t really like the UK or many of the people in it. I wonder to what extent this played a part in the Democrats defeat, particularly amongst the Hispanic and Asian voters who want to consider themselves as American and don’t care for being defined by where they came from.

    • massive redistribution of wealth? Maybe. It was done before with the robber barons of the 19th/20th century industrialization. David McWilliams’ latest podcast is good on the subject, saying it took Teddy Roosevelt to legislate against and break their monopoly for a fairer market to develop.
      https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-david-mcwilliams-podcast-907448/episodes/power-and-plutocracy-have-we-r-229813327
      It’s not rocket science. Billionaires get their money from the rest of society, not from spontaneously generating it themselves. Unsurprisingly, if they take it away, there’s less for everyone else and society becomes dysfunctional.

      Though who is strong enough to tame Musk, Bezos, Zuckerberg, I don’t know.

  64. The Fail online (I’ve looked so you don’t have to) has unsurprisingly been an absolute bin-fire the last couple of days. Endless articles about owning the libs and the comments below them are shocking in their anger, racism, misogyny and more. Shows that the Trump way works very well in the UK too and is entirely mainstream and if Labour don’t do a very good job over the next few years the political future in the UK looks pretty bleak. Not that things look much brighter here in Spain tbh.

  65. EU GDP is only a little less than the U.S. (15.2 vs 15.5).

    It’s way too much to hope for but if we were all to get our act together couldn’t Europe become a much more dominant influence in the world?

    • I’m a bit weary of some on my socials deriding all Trump voters as racist simpletons. As you say, there are all sorts of factors at play including ignorance, gullibility, and malice, but also a fair bit of desperation, resentment and defiance at a system that feels unjust and irrelevant. The fact the Dems couldn’t come up with a solid vision that could persuade voters not to follow the fat f*cker in light of his track recored is truly a fail of staggering dimensions.

      • Mu h the same could be said of the Brexit vote. I voted remain, but it was clear that people voted to a leave for a variety of reasons, not just because they were mad or bad. Some, for example, were fed up of being told that migration had no impact whatsoever on their wages. That might be true across the whole economy, but there were patently sectors where is did come into play. Likewise, minority communities in some towns, Luton for example, voted to leave in significant numbers, believing they would benefit from a reduction in people moving into the UK from Eastern Europe. These were people voting in the basis of self-interest.

          • I live in one of the UK’s left behind places. This constituency is Labour but in recent years that support has diminished and it came as no surprise to me that Reform came a close second at the last election. Are the people local to me who voted Reform all racists? No they are not. Are they disillusioned and angry at the failure of the mainstream political parties ability to at the bare minimum not make their lives worse? Very much so and it’s difficult to blame them for feeling that way. They may well be arriving at their conclusions for the wrong reasons and that is something that could and should be addressed but goodness knows how as they have stopped believing any of the mainstream media outlets as well.
            What has just occurred in the USA is very possible here for much the same reasons all that needs to happen is for nothing to change.

            • There was a hell of a lot of clamour from every corner to oust the Tories at the last election and I bet some of the people who voted Labour did so with expectations of a sudden, miraculous upturn in the quality of their lives once ousted, or at least some noticeable improvements, and are now blaming mainstream politics even more.

              • Yep and therein lies danger. Strongman authoritarian politicians offering glib easy answers become very attractive to disillusioned and angry people. “Vote for me and I’ll set you free.” We’ve been here before but it seems the lessons are never learned.

                • In fairness, P, while our parents’ generation were indeed there before, we’ve not (yet) experienced anything like the level of hardships and uncertainties that our mums and dads did.

                  Given the comparative ease with which we’ve been lucky enough to live our lives, I doubt we’d have been able to cope nearly so well as they did with the challenges they faced.

                  • Absolutely. Unfortunately the current generations have no first hand experience of that period. Poverty and hardship is relative. Try telling someone who can’t feed themselves or their children without recourse to a foodbank or can’t find decent affordable housing that previous generations had it worse. They may agree but their knowing that doesn’t alleviate in any way their real life problems right here, right now. The past is a foreign country. Having said that I don’t think for most who are drawn to the rhetoric of the extremes it’s about poverty. It’s a perception of unfairness of not getting a fair shake.

                    • True.

                      You’re also right about the past being a foreign country. Sadly, once we leave it we can never get back in

          • I won’t ever understand how anyone can get to the ballot box and think, “Six times bankrupt, racist, misogynist, three times married, anti science, anti vax, climate change denier, convicted criminal, pathological lier: that’s the guy for me!” but then “we” voted for Brexit, Boris and the chaos that Truss brought.

            • I find that astonishing too. There are myriad reasons why.

              One is that overwhelmingly, huge numbers that do turn up to vote have no interest in politics at all. It’s all tuned out. They vote out of duty for the candidate for whatever party they feel most affinity to. They don’t know or care enough about Trump to not vote for him as candidate.

              On the same point of lack of interest, I think it was either Stephen Colbert or Seth Meyers who pointed out that one of the most surprisingly big Google searches on the day was ‘why isn’t Joe Biden on the ballot?’

              Many just did not know he’d dropped out.

              That’s not to say that’s the main reason for Trump winning. It isn’t by a long way. But it’s plenty enough to make you shake your head in wonder.

              • The Trump issue is hard to fathom. I understand the rejection of the incumbents. It seems that is a global trend but it is a discontent with the way the country has been run. I would say though that a person can be sold on the idea of misgovernment from various sources like social media, perverted by Russian infiltration and Musk interference for example. The reality is that the Democrats did address many of the issues of concern, they gave aid to the worse affected areas for example. A large number of people can be persuaded something isn’t happening even if it is. Then there’s the question of what the new regime will actually do, what are the consequences of voting them in. Have they considered that or just hoped for something better that isn’t the status quo? What about tariffs? Who gets what that will mean? How’s that going to help inflation and the cost of living? Taking revenge on enemies, sending illegals home, cutting taxes for the rich, restricting women’s rights, the threat to democracy, not to mention the nasty little package called Project 2025. Don’t those voting Republican have responsiblity for any of this? I know they are what they are and the Democrats must find a way to satisfy these voters that they can address their concerns but still. Trump has been quite open about what he wants to do. I know he may be cut off from reality but there are others who want the same things as him, as much as is possible. It’s who he is but it’s also what he wants to do. I think there’s a lot of people who don’t know what they’ve let themselves in for.

            • Pretty much exactly my thoughts, when you throw in draft dodging and being found guilty of sexual abuse.

              I know a handful of people that voted for Trump and they pretty much all see him as a terrible individual. My position was and still is that the behaviour of some people disqualifies them from office, no matter which party they represent, and it’s hard to think of a more amoral untrustworthy individual.

              But they argue they vote for the party not the individual because any price is worth paying to stop a Democrat win. They genuinely don’t see a difference between Democrat policies and socialism. One told me they considered not voting at all, or writing in a different name but in the end held his nose and voted for Trump.

              I know that there are thousands of other reasons why Trump got in, but I’m still resolutely of the view that those that did have to own what now happens over the next four years.

              • This story in the Graun today shows where we are now

                “Just hours after Donald Trump’s election win on Tuesday, Black people across the US reported receiving racist text messages telling them that they had been “selected” to pick cotton and needed to report to “the nearest plantation”. While the texts, some of which were signed “a Trump supporter”, varied in detail, they all conveyed the same essential message about being selected to pick cotton. Some of the messages refer to the recipients by name.”

                https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/08/racist-text-messages-trump-win

    • Yes. It’s called Kwik-Goal-Arm-Band-Black

      One happy customer said: Used it to wear in memorium to a friend while reffing a wrestling show. It slipped a lot but it could just be because how much I was sweating. It did it’s job and survived a washer and dryer.

  70. I woke up sweating from this horrible nightmare, but it was such a relief to be reassured by Tiggs’ post title that there are still two days to go to the big day! That’s plenty of time for the Dems to get their sh*t together..

      • Admittedly, because of the poisonous nature of the subject, it rarely comes up in conversation, but I’ve yet to met anyone who has owned Brexit… unless…
        “Oh well (long sigh) we might as well just get on with it”… counts.

        I’ve heard that loads of times.

          • Yep.

            A factor, surely, was always – do you trust these guys to actually be able to put all this into practice?
            I definitely remember saying it at the time, and if a voter was in any doubt about its implementation, to go for ‘Leave’ was, at best, careless.

            Triffic.
            Still, I don’t like their grandchildren either!

            • I am biased but I think the act of voting for Brexit demonstrated an absence of rational thought, and / or an open vision of the future. So I wouldn’t expect any sensible rationale. I have no desire to re-debate Brexit so I fully accept OOAA.

  74. Meanwhile the Graun has been offering counseling sessions for staff who were apparently left devastated by Trump’s win.

    Given the state of the world, it’s a wonder how the poor lambs manage to get a newspaper out at all.

    • Hang on, that’s not quite accurate.

      Viner’s message to staff was reminding them of the company-provided EAP or equivalent services. I can guarantee – because I have peers who have done it – that is a fairly common message right now.

      Especially for the US staff, it’s the right move. People with chronic illnesses, or women, especially, are incredibly concerned about what the future might hold. Women have already died in Texas because of their anti-abortion legislation meaning doctors have refused to treat them as they ordinarily would.

      I don’t feel the need for EAP, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t deeply concerned about the future of my health and protections. As I’ve mentioned before, they were one vote away from overturning the ACA, the only thing that could guarantee me health insurance. If they mess about with the Federal Government health plans, I could be in real trouble.

      It’s easy to mock from a distance when you’re not being impacted by the election, isn’t it. I’d use a swear word that’s very popular in Australia, but i’d probably get banned.

      • The Guardian is a newspaper, and like all such publications, its pages are filled with distressing news on a daily basis. Perhaps Graun staffers who find such developments so upsetting should seek out a less stressful line of work.

        Does the paper issue companywide offers of EAPs every time scores die as a result of some horrible mass shooting in the US or hundreds of thousands die of famine in Africa or lose their home due to flooding in Asia?

        As it seems doubtful that even it’s owners, the Scott Trust, have pockets that deep, Viner’s singling out of Trump’s re-election should be seen for what it is – virtue signalling pure and simple.

        It is, as you say, easy to mock from a distance. It’s every bit as easy to make erroneous assumptions about a poster you have never met, and whose exact circumstances you know next to nothing about – as you do when stating that I (and by extension my friends and family members) have not been impacted by Trump’s re-election.

        FWIW, while I read your earlier post and was sorry to learn of your medical issues, my OP made no mention of either you or them.

        Given that, like you and indeed everyone else here, I have my own share of personal and family troubles to deal with, the unpleasant personal tone in your last sentence was totally uncalled for and unbefitting of this board.

        • They won’t ‘offer’ an EAP. They will have, I’m guessing, have reminded staff of the existence of an EAP as part of their employment package, something that many – if not most – businesses have these days. As part of the EAP, all staff will have access to a counselling service (generally for a set number of sessions) should they choose to do so.

        • There’s a difference, I would imagine, between reporting on a distressing issue and having to deal with something that actually affects, eg, your reproductive rights, or right to access healthcare. This isn’t about their reporting, this about their day to day lives.

          As Lando states, EAPs tend to be standard parts of benefits packages and are already baked into operational costs.

          As you seem so keen to offer Guardian staff career advice, perhaps I could offer some human advice: try looking up the word empathy and exercising it.

          • Rather than clog up the board with any more of this increasingly tiresome discussion, I’ll confine myself to your condescending offer of “human” advice.

            Before you next take umbrage at a post that makes no mention of you to disparage another poster, perhaps you first visit the board’s FAQ section.

            I am sure you will find the final sentence of its very first paragraph to be very instructive.

              • I don’t agree that was sage advice. It ignores the value of politeness, including its effectiveness. You wrote intelligent, informed and interesting replies to Jaygee, but in both comments your last (completely unnecessary) couplet is none of those things and so kinda ruins that vibe.

              • Can we just remind everybody to keep these discussions civil and not let them fall into comment of the more personal nature.

                Perhaps if something gets to the point where you’re on the brink of that, maybe back away? As we’ve said many times the Afterword is not Twitter!

  77. The internet is thrumming with terabytes of speculation most of which will be wrong.

    It will be hell untrammelled. The State Legislatures have preempted this and bolstered themselves legally against the draconian. Trump will get tired and bored and play golf like last time and enact virtually fuck all. He’ll stand up to Putin. Putin will fall in a coup. Mass deportations will appall America and the world and will be sanctioned. He’ll do all he promised and this is the beginning of a New World Order. And on and on

    All balls. All of it. What it will be will be entirely unexpected. But shite.

  78. Meanwhile in other news….

    Seems that Trump is trying to steamroller through appointments without having to seek congressional approval, he’s also planning to appoint Musk as Efficiency Tsar and proposing right wing nut job called Pete Hegseth as Defence Secretary – or as one Washington insider put it “undoubtedly the least qualified nominees for Defence Secretary ever”

  80. That’s the way the US legal system works,I’m afrraid.

    The richer/more powerful you are, the easier it is to wriggle out of being prosecuted and/or facing any meaningful punishment.

    Can attest from four-plus years of painful personal experience that
    the system here in Ireland is little better.

  81. You would think someone who recently splurged a billion dollars on a failed US presidential campaign and remains a heartbeat away from becoming one of the the two or three most powerful people on Earth would have someone to advise her not to post this

Leave a Reply