With Harris’s campaign losing momentum, most recent polls putting her and Trump level on
around 49% and only eight weeks to go to polling day, tonight’s debate could well be the defining
moment of this year’s election.
Can H stand up to the sort of media scrutiny she’s far gone out of her way to avoid?
Can T spend 90 minutes focusing on issues without resorting to personal abuse?
It promises to be quite a night.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/sep/09/latest-poll-kamala-harris-donald-trump-2024-us-election-presidential-polls
From afar, the Kamala surge seems, perhaps, to have peaked. Lordy, lordy, he couldn’t actually win, could he?
As the undecideds who will decide the election know far less about KH than they do about the execrable DT, I think she has a lot more to lose in tonight’s debate than he does.
No one believed he could win last time.
Hilary Clinton was a very divisive candidate who put off many voters. Kamala is hopefully more an unknown quantity. It is going to be very close!
This doc asked the question: Should we be scared?
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/article/2024/sep/09/trump-should-we-be-scared-review-no-we-should-be-absolutely-terrified
I suspect that like here, loads of people don’t like politicians and aren’t interested in politics. It seems to me that enthusiasm for Harris is strongest among those who are interested in politics. That’s not enough to guarantee her a win.
I know the OP dislikes Harris, but according to this she is still ahead in the polls
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj4x71znwxdo
I think both of them will disappoint everyone, or certainly their supporters.
I think Harris will not land any killing prosecutorial blow. Like the current American justice system itself with regard to Trump.
I don’t think Trump will obviously and undeniably explode and soil himself. He will I feel continue to drivel and insult generally without saying anything to satisfy his base.
The mediators will sit and let any old crap happen as is the way with these so far appalling tv debates.
It’ll be shit. It’ll be up to how the Undecideds feel on November 5th.
What a mess.
How anyone could possibly be “undecided” with the stark choice in front of them is truly mind-boggling.
I suspect quite a lot of “undecideds” are actually “uninteresteds” and will not bother voting at all.
That’s what you get when Machine Politics is all that there is on offer.
Well. That wasn’t shit.
She looked assured, together and in command. No real zingers but a constant pounding of reason at him.
She called him a disgrace. Out loud to his face. She reminded the audience of the shitshow that was his presidency.
He took all the bait and flailed. And sweated. And gave us what we wanted to see proven. Lunacy. ‘They’re eating dawgs!’
It’s going to be a long 54 days but yesterday was a good one.
Don’t particularly “dislike” KH – just don’t rate her as a potential President
Ultimately, the stakes are just too high to entrust to someone whose biggest selling point seems to be that she isn’t one of the most malign politicians of the last 80 years.
The Dems could – and should – have done a lot better in managing one of the most important Presidential campaigns of our lifetime.
Regardless of what the two mass polls cited above say, the undecided voters who will say who wins in eight weeks time would seem to agree.
I can just not conceive of the lack of understanding this demonstrates. ” I don’t rate her as a future… ” What on earth do we think we know about it.
@everygoodboydeservesfruita
“What on earth do we think we know about it”?
What do any of us here know about anything?
If being on the AW has taught me one thing, it’s that there are contributors here who are far more interested (in and knowledgeable about) certain issues than I ever will be or can hope to be.
While I wouldn’t be so arrogant as to claim whatever opinions I offer here are worth more than those of any other poster, they are backed by a lifelong interest in American History and Politics dating back to LBJ’s doomed Great Society .
Initially fueled by John Pilger’s wonderful late 1960s columns in the Daily Mirror, my interest in those subjects later helped me to earn a degree in American Studies from Hull Uni.
Could drone on about how the McCarthy Red purge of the 1950s links directly to today’s election (the answer being Roy Cohn who served as Tailgunner Joe’s Rotwelller at the House Unamerican Hearings and later gave legal advice to a very young Donald Trump), but I won’t.
Just spent 16 days in primarily Wyoming and South Dakota where Trump is openly King.
Thankfully the election is not decided in these two states.
The battleground states will be decisive. Pennsylvania where this debate is being held could be key.. I like her and pray that she succeeds.
What do any of us know about anything is your rejoinder. And that AW has taught you something.
Opinions are a toxicity. It’s your casual ” I don’t rate” phrase that suggests a lack of thought.
Trump seems to be edging towards rambling incoherency more often than not. However I must face the possibility that I’ve only watched stuff from my left-wing thought bubble news feed, and he is in fact a formidable debate foe, with a rapier-like wit and forensic grasp of both camps’ policy strengths and weaknesses. I doubt it but you never know.
I think I might actually stay up for this. I’ve only ever seen highlights of previous ones but this has the chance to be a classic. I wonder if the Democrat camp agreeing to have the mic of the non-speaker muted, as demanded by the GOP, will be a wise or unwise move?
“I must face the possibility that…. he is in fact a formidable debate foe, with a rapier-like wit and forensic grasp of both camps’ policy strengths and weaknesses”
He is not.
He does not have a grasp of Republican policies, let alone those of the other lot.
He does not even have a grasp of his own ‘policies’, other than the reptilian instinct of what is beneficial to him in the moment and immediate future.
He is formidable in the respect that due to almost everything that comes out of his mouth being a lie, distortion or crazy fiction (that he might actually believe).
Everyone knows the sort of person Trump is – those who
vote for him most of all.
Surely KH should have no problem in proving that she
has something better to offer than simply not being DT.
Not just to the US electorate, but also the likes of Putin,
Xi and the growing gang of right wing Populist leaders
around the world.
The fact that she has failed to do so is why the US and the
rest of us are facing such a bleak few years
As far as home policy goes she has come out with some, available on an internet near you. She’s had no chance to deal with State matters, what with not being President.
But this debate is not about policy, or showing dictactors she has the balls to stand up to them, it’s about image. So she needs to stay calm and land some memorable soundbite put-downs, that will swing things her way a bit.
“Everyone knows the sort of person Trump is – those who vote for him most of all.”
Do they, though?
Listening to interviews with some of them, they think he is a ‘God’, etc.
Being members of a deranged cult, they have wild fantasies about who/what he is.
https://x.com/Trump_History45
@napaj
Yes. Just my impish sense of humour there. I don’t really think he is Cicero reincarnated.
The already tried and failed pricing control initiative and the tax-free tip idea that Trump himself had suggested being two of her many policies.
Re no chance to deal with State matters – she’s been VP for the last four years and, being just a heartbeat away from being POTUS, would be regularly updated on all key events and briefings
You might image is enough to win her the election, I think it’s going to take a lot, lot more than that
So she does have many policies? Good to know. I’m sure we’ll get to hear them over the course of the next few weeks 🤞
Whether they appeal to you or not is of course a different question.
To quote another well known poster, “just my impish sense of humor”…
😘
You don’t have a vote as far as I know. It’s what the American electorate decides and image is conceivably all important to them. I suspect she is going to just be a continuation of the current administration with a younger person in charge. That may be all that is needed in the end.
You’re right, I don’t have a vote in the US, @Dai.
Nor I would imagine would the vast majority of AWers -yourself included – who follow and post on threads like this.
I would like to think she will shit on his doorstep repeatedly, knocking down his hyperbole and lies, whilst saying something positive. She can conclude,
“Why are you such an obnoxious cunt, Don? Overcompensating for being rejected by the kids your dad wouldn’t let you play with? We all know you only care about yourself and your pocket. Now fuck off to the golf-course and hope your ex-escort wife doesn’t dump you when you lose.”
That would lovely to see.
She could troll him, using his own vocabulary. The results of her presidential policy could be ‘the greatest this country has ever seen. No one has seen this before’.
She could cite ‘many legal scholars’ who ‘agree’
She could explain that ‘childcare is childcare’.
The You Can’t Handle The Truth moment will never happen but she can hopefully goad him to some sort of response to appal those that need to see it.
Trump’s appeal says a lot about how many in the USA are purposely stupid to fit in with their communities (along with the ones who don’t need to try). The scariest ones are those who know better, but chose to go along with it, or are actively complicit. Real dictatorship precursor vibes. So who is trying to get this idiotic talking head into position? Vlad?
I might be better to wait until he goes off on one – either ranting or just rambling – then shake her head and mutter, ‘Weird.’ For some reason that’s the one that seems to get under his orange skin most, despite being pretty much undeniable.
I’m hoping that she can use “Weird” or some other comment to provoke him into a complete meltdown, a rant of such unhinged proportions that even his most diehard supporters think “Wow, this guy should never be in any position of power again.”
The fact that, despite everything he has said and done (and all the things he and his lackeys have promised to do if he gets in), he is still a real prospect for POTUS is truly frightening.
A simplistic view
Is Harris a predictable, known quantity? No.
Is she a convicted felon and known sex abuser? No.
Is the other candidate? Yes.
Vote Harris.
Taylor Swift has just endorsed Harris in an Instagram post signed Childless Cat Lady…
And Elon hit full sex pest mode
And his daughter called him out as a creepy incel.
I had to turn it off – like a couple of schoolkids shouting at each other.
Yep. Carefully edited snippets is the way to go.
Not seen yet, but glanced through the press coverage.
CNN snap poll saying Harris won by 63% to 37% (18 points is normally considered very good), she also seems to have shifted the dial on abortion (most searched for issue by the debate’s end) while Trump did himself no favours by equivocating on ending the Russia/Ukraine
War.
What with Taylor Swift’s endorsement, a pretty good night for KH who has apparently agreed to go again in Oct if Trump wants a rematch.
Anyone who said that Trump ‘won’ that is literally deranged.
Perhaps as much as Trump himself.
Or simply a mindless sycophant.
In any normal functioning mind, she destroyed him.
All he has is never-ending hatred, extreme narcissism, and a mushed brain pumping out his own fantasy world narrative with self-preservation as the dominant (only?) drive.
It was a pleasure to watch.
Hopefully enough Americans might wake up from their madness.
Didn’t watch it live, jaygee? “The defining moment of this year’s election”?
I am shocked…and stunned…🙂
@fitterstoke
Mea culpa!
Can you imagine how difficult it is trying to post this acknowledgment of my shortcomings while hanging my head in shame?
Amusingly, for a President – one of only three and the first for 160 years – not to own a dog, it was lovely to see DT cast himself as a protector of our furry friends
I thought she came across very well: forward-thinking, with (a few) concrete plans. I don’t know enough to judge whether they’re good plans, but at least she has some, unlike DJT, who was just his usual blathering self; e.g. “I’ll stop the war in Ukraine before I even take up office.” But how, Don? What will you *actually* do to stop a war involving a powerful country that has nuclear weapons?
This was the first time I’d hear her speak at length, and I was impressed. Yes, she did dodge some answers, but overall she sounded presidential, and I like her insistence on bringing the country together and on the US helping other countries.
Trump just played the hits: immigrants, “people say I had the biggest [insert whatever talking point] in the history of our country”, “Viktor Orban said I’m great”, etc. As always, it all seemed to be about him and the things he likes/dislikes.
I still cannot understand how seemingly half of US voters, knowing everything they know, want him in charge again.
Perhaps it’s because he can tell them that all those things they are ignorant of don’t really matter, and he’ll deal with them anyway. They can go back to the mall and the sofa, happy in their faith that The Orange Don will take care of them. The appeal of the fantastic to the gormless is like a balm for their souls. It’s deplorable.
My 4 year reminder to get your predictions and tracking from Larry Sabato at University of Virginia.
I predict that all being well, we three will meet again in 2028
I watched the whole thing this morning. My take is Trump started sounding calm, reasonable, dare I say it, even Presidential. This lasted for around 10 minutes and after that he got suckered into defending Harris’ personal barbs about crowd sizes and sucking up to dictators. After that he was on the back foot.
He seemed unable to intimidate her, rather almost the reverse. Given how the Fox News crew are whingeing about bias – “Three on One” and so on – it was a win for KH I’d say.
Among the many reasons why he shouldn’t be President is the fact that he seems so easy to wind up. One mention of crowd sizes and he’s away – whatever he was going to say is forgotten and he has to respond with “biggest crowd ever”, “best rally in history”, ad infinitum.
His minions must despair. I read that he didn’t prepare for the debate, but surely somebody must have said, “Don’t let her get to you. If she mentions crowd sizes, just keep going.” She mentions it, he falls for it, the audience thinks “Not this again. Let it go, you petty little man.”
I wonder what it says about his psyche that this one subject gets to him so much.
Trump’s minions deserve every heart-flutter for putting their efforts into this lump of personality psychopathology. Supporting Trump does not make a better world. It’s not even about being “conservatives”, as there are better, smarter, cleverer conservatives out there (not that I can think of any). The waste of time and money invested in either enabling or having to defeat this tool is staggering.
Definitely a win for KH, although she didn’t impress me that much. But someone would have to be a genuine lunatic to look worse than Trump.
I was surprised he rejected the notion of any association with Project 2025. Some newspapers have been reporting Project 2025 as though it’s the inevitable consequence of a Trump presidency.
I got the impression Trump’s last presidency wasn’t as harmful as predicted (and the Hollywood celebs who said they’d leave the country if he got elected, of course did no such thing). He’s obviously very clearly unfit for high office, like Johnson in Britain, and if I lived in America I’d certainly fear a second Trump presidency, but what exactly is likely to be the lasting damage internationally of a Trump victory? Genuine question. (I’ve read that he would be catastrophic for the environment, but I’m not sure any politician is willing or able to take the steps required to avoid environmental catastrophe).
Speaking as one who endured his Presidency, it was very harmful, pandemic response notwithstanding.
A new lobe
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13837961/conspiracy-trump-kamala-harris-debate-audience.html
Quality puns like that are the main reason I come here..
Much appreciated.