I’m surprised that no one here has had a word to say about the latest card played by the odious Trump: suggesting that Moslems should not be allowed to enter the USA. He’s certainly made no friends among the three million American Moslems, nor all the businesses who have contacts with the Islamic world.
Loathsome though he is, he’s obviously not stupid and doubtless cares little about what the rest of the world have to say. The more outrage here in Commie Sweden for example, the better the polls will go for him at home. But according to the Guardian, he has now also alienated the Christian right and many of his fellow Republicans. Has the “plain-speaking maverick” finally gone too far?
I feel sorry for the many Americans faced with the thought that they could have him as their next President. And heaven help us all if he gets to the White House.
GCU Grey Area says
I’m probably reading too much into him, but I wonder if he says all these odious things so that he won’t actually win the nomination. He wants to be in the race, as he gets the chance to strut around and speak his brain on a larger stage than usual. If he loses, cue much talk of ‘folks just didn’t want to hear what I say’. Also allows other Republicans to appear slightly more rational, and say that money can’t buy you the Presidency.
ewenmac says
That’s a good point. Presumably he knows he hasn’t a hope so perhaps he’s flogging himself as a “lone courageous voice,” with a view to a book/TV show when he inevitably loses. “The man who’s not afraid to say the unsayable” or whatever pablum his little band of followers need to hear.
Tiggerlion says
The trouble with this theory is that he is winning, isn’t he? Reminds me of The Producers. Things start to unravel when the show is a hit.
ivylander says
He’s not, however, winning among the general populace, but within a fragmented, rudderless party. Every Republican presidential hopeful seems determine to out-demagogue the others -and on that score he is the undisputed champion of the field. But say he gets the nomination, which could actually happen. I firmly believe that the Democrats will make sure that independent, centrist voters – who have no say in determining nominees, but who very much determine presidents – turn out in droves to make sure that man never gets anywhere near the Oval Office.
Tiggerlion says
Hmm.
I’m not sure I’m going to sleep any easier.
Mike_H says
He’s certainly not the buffoon some are portraying him as.
I’m beginning to suspect he’s just been using the presidential nomination race as a personal publicity stunt all along. I reckon he’s never actually wanted the job but just sees it as a way to boost his TV profile and it’s working very well so far.
The media attention he’s currently getting far outstrips the actual support he has. Only about 20% of registered Republicans actually support him, and only about 23% of voters are registered Republicans, according to a US political pundit who was interviewed yesterday on’t BBC. That’s about 4 to 5%. A pretty slim chance of success.
His chances of getting the Republican nomination are slim. He has no political experience whatsoever and no previous candidate of either party has been so completely inexperienced, ever. Making him their candidate would gift the presidency to Hilary Clinton and the Democrats. The smart Republicans know this and will do whatever it takes to ensure his candidacy fails. But then so will he, while turning the outlandish rhetoric up even higher.
He’ll either fail to be nominated and make a big career step-up out of griping about it, or he’ll win the nomination, he and the Republicans will get totally buried by Hilary’s Democrats and in that case he’ll get an even bigger step up in his TV career griping about that.
A win-win for Trump, no matter what.
Political vandalism.
Sitheref2409 says
I think the only TV he has a shot at is on Fox – and that won’t last (cf Sarah Palin)
He’s unhireable
Kaisfatdad says
You do wonder, don’t you? Any other candidate is going to come across an enlightened liberal compared to Motormouth Donald.
I wonder how the Democrats feel about him. He’s probably pushing a few voters in the middle their way until his party disown him.
On The Fence says
To paraphrase Bill Maher , “Trump believes three things to be true , that he will be president, that his hair looks good and that his wife would still love him even if he were poor “
ewenmac says
I can’t muster up enough interest in the guy; he’s good for headlines but he’s got as much chance of being President as Charlie Sheen. His approval rating with the general electorate is between 6% and 8%
I’d imagine he’s doing a “Hail Mary Pass” with this latest stunt – ‘I’m screwed anyway so let’s see if anyone buys this.” If he was anywhere near mainstream approval it would be worrying but meh. I’ll start paying attention to him when he loses – it should be very funny to see what sort of dignified and graceful manner he accepts it in.
Vincent says
Shouldn’t he be called “The Stupid”?
DrewToo says
I am an American and on behalf of my nation I apologize.
His “popularity” is a numbers game. If the Republicans had not put up over a dozen candidates, that split the voting base, he would never have been seen as anything other than a sideshow.
The concern is that now the media give him the publicity he craves.
There is a large MINORITY who thinks as he says. They are scared – often folks who have a very limited world view. He articulates their view.
Eventually – if will become evident that he represents only a MINORITY. That’s democracy.
Kaisfatdad says
That’s re-assuring to hear Ewen and Drew. I hope you are right.
He certainly gets a lot of media attention over here in Europe as the “front-runner” in the Republican Party.
ewenmac says
Absolutely, but only 23% of Americans identify as Republicans.
The media keep bigging up the fact that he’s Republican front-runner but they rarely quote his general electorate ratings; all his “front-runner” status means is that re. being able to elect a President, the Republicans are screwed.
Tiggerlion says
OK. That answers my question/point above.
Cheers.
Vulpes Vulpes says
No need to apologise DrewToo, we are used to batshit-crazy politicians; we have a number of them on this side of the pond too.
DrewToo says
vulpes – there does seem to be similarities to the UKIP nonsense.
mikethep says
Yes, you have Trump, we have Farage. You have Bernie Sanders, we have Corbyn. All of them appealing (in theory) to people who feel disenfranchised by centrist parties.
Kaisfatdad says
Similarities too to the racist, ultra-right Sweden Democrats who regrettably look as though they are or soon will be Sweden’s third largest political party. A nasty bunch of thugs with neo-Nazi roots and a history of violence.
They’ve got where they are by saying things about immigration and foreigners that none of the main stream parties would say.
niscum says
Well, it sure makes you wonder what on earth has happened in Sweden of late to make so many people vote for such a nasty bunch of racist thugs.
I mean, Sweden’s famous for it’s tolerance of immigrants and its socialist welfare state.
Maybe though they’ve got where they are by saying things about immigration and foreigners that none of the main stream parties would say.
ivylander says
The ultimately reassuring thing is that, even were Trump somehow to be elected – as great an improbability as Drew and ewenmac point out – no one in government would cooperate with him. Not even the rank-and-file Republicans. If you think Obama’s desire to govern met with resistance, you can’t imagine the trouble Trump would have getting anything past Congress. It’s not that awful things would happen in a Trump administration – it’s that nothing would, which is almost worse.
Sitheref2409 says
Disagree on that, in the unlikely event that he were to be elected.
A moderate Rep President, looking for a second term, would have a moderate agenda – that means the more loopy Tea Party agenda would stay buried until the second term if at all.
He gets in? All bets are off. There’s no need for moderation.
The engine Driver says
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/05/us/michele-fiore-gun-holiday-card-feat/index.html
When this is a family Christmas Card he knows his target audience!!
fentonsteve says
Two can play at that game… if Don gets in, I propose we ban American men with tupees from entering Europe.
DogFacedBoy says
Who would buy a toupee that looks like that?. Or perhaps it’s a double bluff. I think we should insist he goes into quarantine
Kaisfatdad says
In reply to Niscum, a lot of that internationalism, solidarity and compassion still exist in Sweden. No one I know here in Stockholm would even consider voting for the Sweden Democrats. That’s probably fairly true for Gothenburg and Malmö too.
It’s in the small towns and the countryside where they have made progress, playing on people’s fears. They are clever and have an articulate, very polished leader who does his best to hide the fact that the rest of them are a bunch of xenophobic numpties.
Left-wing activists often try to disrupt their meetings and they play the martyr card very skillfully. Like Trump they are outsiders from the political establishment and no other party has to date shown any interest in building a government with them.
duco01 says
I’d say that the Sweden Democrats are fairly popular in Malmö, KFD.
Skåne is their big stronghold.
Results for Sweden Democrats in Riksdag election 2014:
Municipality of Malmö: 13.5%
Municipality of Gothenburg: 9.64%
Municipality of Stockholm: 6.64%
ianess says
Given the rise of ‘no-go’ areas in Malmo and Gothenburg plus the riots that have taken place there plus the upward spike in rape statistics, I suspect the ‘xenophobic numpties’, as you sneeringly describe them in your bigoted way, will do even better in the next election.
‘Left wing activists disrupt their meetings’ – how charmingly illiberal, authoritarian and fascistic of them.
Meanwhile, your deluded, frantically virtue-signalling, self-loathing leaders throw the borders open and invite any number of ‘refugees’/ economic migrants and potential jihadists into your country.
Sweden is the most brainwashed, easily cowed population in Western Europe, so it’s no great surprise that you’re sleepwalking into a nightmare you’ve created for yourselves.
Demographically, you’re fucked. In about twenty years, you’ll be compiling lists of your ‘favourite imams’.
Kaisfatdad says
I shouldn’t sneer, it’s true @ianess
But nothing I have seen of the Sweden Democrats, from their appearances on TV and in the media to their political leaflets that I get through my letterbox, has done anything to convince me that they are anything but a group of hate-mongers whose modus operandi is to stir up fear and distrust.
I don’t think that they would object to being called xenophobic.
I have as much dislike for violent, undemocratic behaviour from the extreme left as from the extreme right.
As for no-go areas in Gothenburg and Malmö, I’m a little dubious. There’s no denying that there have been waves of gang-related violent crime in both cities. But my friends who live in those two cities have never mentioned that there are now parts of town which are out of bounds for normal citizens. Nor has there been anything that I’ve seen in the media that suggests that this is the case.
I don’t have lots of statistics at my disposal on this, but it sounds exaggerated.
Jed Clampett says
You are a nice man KFD, probably too nice to point out some of the horseshit that is spouted.
I think the idea of “no go” areas dates from a late 2014 report by the Swedish police on 55 places in Sweden where they find it harder to carry out investigations. These are areas where the local population is not very helpful to them in coming forward with leads or information. They are not “no go” areas, that is a spin put on it by the kind of people that you quite rightly sneered at.
I live in one of the 55 identified problem areas, and the idea it is a no go zone is laughable. However, there are a lot of people who don’t care to check what they are talking about, even though the internet has made it pretty easy to do that. Provided something fits their agenda and confirms their prejudices they are happy.
niscum says
Fortunately for you only people who think like you can vote there.
Oh no, shit, wait, Sweden Democrats are the third party in a country where nearly 50% of the population in Malmo and large percentages on Gothenburg, Stockholm etc would never in a million years vote for them.
Seems to me like you don’t like the democratic opinions of some blonde Swedes very much …
“sleepwalking into a nightmare you’ve created for yourselves” Oh yes.
Jed Clampett says
The Sweden Democrats polled just under 13 per cent in the last election. Will they do better in the next election? Let’s see. The most recent opinion poll (2 December) says they have lost 8 percent of their support in the last month. They are polling at 18 per cent at the moment.
They are a single issue party, which has nothing to say about anything other than immigration. They have no very convincing arguments on that issue either. Will it be a challenge to integrate new arrivals into a growing economy? Of course it will … but wait, the Swedish economy grew by 4 per cent last quarter. A number the UK can only dream of.
The Sweden Democrats are going through an internal crisis. A quarter of the SD candidates who were elected in council elections have left since the elections. Some of those have defected to the centre-right Moderate party, the rest have just left politics. The party leader has just removed the deputy speaker of the parliament from the leadership group because his views are so extreme.
Let’s just see what happens. I predict the people wetting themselves with excitement because an unpleasant populist party does well in a couple of opinion polls are going to look pretty stupid a year from now. Swedish people are smart. I trust them.
Lando Cakes says
Don’t be too sure. I live in a country run by a single issue party…
ianess says
Any comments on the riots you’ve experienced from your grateful immigrants or the enormous increase in rapes?
Are you really ascribing your recent economic growth to your welcoming of ‘refugees’?
Why did your government panic recently and shut your borders? Why are there calls for the rest of Europe to help you and Germany out of the disaster you’ve helped create if everything is so hunky dory?
All the best with the integration of some of the most intolerant people on Earth into your famously self-regarding society – it doesn’t seem to have been very successful to date.
We’ll see how well your pro-immigration parties fare at the next election. At least the SD appear to have disrupted your Pollyannaesque groupthink.
Jed Clampett says
“Any comments on the riots you’ve experienced from your grateful immigrants or the enormous increase in rapes?”
Yes, let’s start with your assertion that there has been an “enormous increase in rapes”. Your assertion has 2 elements. First, that there has been an enormous increase, and second that this is in some way connected to the issue of new arrivals.
Sweden has an agency for crime prevention that works closely with the police and keeps real time statistics. Here are the statistics for rape and sexual assaults reported, by quarter, for 2014 and the first 3 quarters of this year.
Rape: 1660/1499/2001/1537/ 1448/1419/1510
All Sex crimes: 5889/5224/5357/4828 /4800/4322 4642
You will see that in both categories the reported crimes are lower for 2015 than they were for the same period in 2014. In the first and third quarters the numbers are significantly lower.
It means the insinuation in the second half of your assertion – that people newly arrived in Sweden have a propensity for rape – falls unless you have some new pearls to bring to us from Makeshitup College.
Let’s consider the riots. There have been 6 or 7 events in the past 10 years that could be called riots, though we are hardly talking massive levels of disorder here.
The most recent ones have been confrontations between anti-nazi and neo-nazi groups in city centres. I am guessing you mean the 2013 riots in Husby after a police man shot a man armed with a knife. 1 of those spread in the following days to 7 or 8 other places.
First point, it happened before the arrival of refugees. Second point, the people involved live in parts of cities that are underprivileged, and where young people in particular don’t feel they have a pathway into the kind of life they want. Many of the people living in those areas are second or third generation immigrants, born, raised and educated in Sweden. There are serious issues in there for sure, but they are not linked directly to migration.
“Why did your government panic recently and shut your borders?”
The number of people arriving has been large, and they have arrived suddenly. The government reached a judgement that Sweden does not have the capacity to do more than it is doing at the moment, so they used the provisions that exist in Schengen to put back national border controls on a temporary basis.
It is a sensible decision in the circumstances. It definitely has a political element. Paying attention to the opinion poll numbers for the Sweden Democrats was undoubtedly a factor influencing the government. Not so strange in a democracy I think.
“Why are there calls for the rest of Europe to help you and Germany out of the disaster you’ve helped create if everything is so hunky dory?”
First what is the “disaster” that has happened in Sweden (in Syria there is a genuine disaster, no doubt about that)? Is it economic? My point about the strong economic growth was that the refugee crisis has not dented the overall economic development … not yet anyway. Maybe it will next year, I don’t know that. I doubt it, but I am not an economist. Is it some other kind of disaster? Sweden Democrats have this odd (and sinister) idea that the disaster is to do with diluting racial purity … there is a thing called a Swede, which was formed more or less at the same time as the Earth, that has not changed since. Now the blood line is threatened. Apart from showing that they don’t know their own history, it all has a bit of an Aryan master race feel to it … which is not surprising since that party grew out of neo-Nazi roots.
A lot of people have come to Sweden to make a better life for themselves. Is this a “disaster” really? I can tell you about 2 people I employ in my team, one Afghan and one Tajik. They both have a shared goal … not going back. Apart from the fact they are both fine people, and I have learned a lot from knowing them, it means they are ready to work unbelievably hard. For me this is not a disaster, it is an asset.
Second, the lack of a common European approach to the refugee crisis has made it harder to manage. Sweden and Germany reached broadly the same conclusion about how to deal with the problem — that the vast majority of people newly arrived are from Syria and Iraq, and they are fleeing a terrible conflict. People born in Syria account for pretty much all of the increase, arrivals from other countries (mainly from Afghanistan, Eritrea and Somalia) have hardly changed year on year.
Sweden and Germany believe they have an obligation to help these people, other countries reached different conclusions, which is why we have a very uneven distribution of refugees. If the refugees were distributed more evenly, the problem would actually be pretty easy to manage in an EU with a population of 510 million and a 17 trillion Euro economy.
I do not think everything is hunky dory. Coping with such a large number of people at short notice is a huge challenge. Winter is nearly here, so people have to be in proper shelter. They cannot simply be abandoned, their children will need school places and they will need assistance, if they get sick for example. The buildings exist, the main problem is the human capacity.
Beyond the refugee crisis, there are definitely problems with integration. Sweden has certainly not found the best way yet, work in progress for sure.
Lando Cakes says
Interesting article in the New Yorker about one man’s journey to Sweden. he seems appreciative of his new country.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/26/ten-borders
niscum says
Of course they’re a ‘one trick pony’ party which makes the fact that they’re the 3rd largest party there, in a socialist state, all the more astonishing. Do you really believe that the people who voted for them don’t realise this, that they’re not a fully fledged political party? People are making a point that the mainstream parties need to listen to them ON THIS ISSUE.
The only convincing argument you need is this: that the mass immigration of muslims from basket-case countries in the muslim world that have absolutely no affinity either Swedish culture or its political system is an idiotic policy and recipe for disaster based on naïve altruism for which your children and grand-children will pick up the tab.
‘The new arrivals’. There is an infinite supply of them queuing up at Swedish embassies all over east and north Africa, and war-zones all over the middle east, and they are never going to stop coming. If it isn’t a challenge (for you) now to integrate them, at some point it will be. For many it seems they’re already in that place even if you refuse to see that.
What point does the tipping point come for you – never? Really?
I think people like you should take the democratic opinions of your fellow swedes more seriously.
Jed Clampett says
See above for a longer response, but I do not believe there is an infinite capacity to absorb people, and it is not what the authorities think either … that is why the policy has changed.
On integration, it is a serious problem, but not a new one. The scale as a share of the total population might be higher now compared to the past spikes, I don’t know. I may check that if I can be arsed. In the 1960s and 1970s Sweden took a lot of refugees from Central and South America who were escaping internal repression in military dictatorships. They were not Muslims, but I am not sure people from e.g. Chile or Guatemala can really be said to have a strong affinity to Swedish culture.
The biggest disconnect now in my opinion is a generational one … between second and third generation Swedish citizens (young people born in Sweden who have gone through the education system and grown up in Swedish society) on the one hand, and their parents/grandparents (born and educated elsewhere) on the other.
The evolution of Swedish society will continue, as it always has and as it does everywhere. Do you visit Sweden often? The place is modern, progressive and diverse, it is neither in flames nor falling apart.
niscum says
On integration: People from another Christian culture, if not discriminated against, will always assimilate given a bit of time. Though if there were several million of them in a short period and more coming every day then perhaps not so much – the system isn’t unlimited in its capacity to cope with this type of influx. You can’t compare, brief, limited south American immigration in the 70s with what’s going on now. Even if the local population were against them at the time for whatever reason, shortage of jobs, secular bigotry, racism etc, within a generation or so it would have sorted itself out and have been largely forgotten. That is assimilation. Look at the immigration of hugenots, jews, Irish, scots etc etc into English cities- all of these caused upheaval at the time but were largely successful and often to the benefit of England. These people though wanted to assimilate.
Mass immigration of Muslims on the other hand is a terrible policy because 1) there is an unlimited supply of them who would rather die trying to leave where they are now than stay, and 2) because they have fundamentally different cultural values than those of the countries where they wish to reside. And this is not going to change in a generation or so because it is based on their religious beliefs. It is at odds with western democracy. If anything, history would show that this sense of entitlement and not belonging often increases with successive generations, not the opposite.
The elder people who built up your country paying into it’s welfare system for so long and at such high rates of tax have a right to some say over how that money is spent. It seems that their opinion on this should count and they should be listened to.
Have I been to Sweden? Yes, a few times with a former girlfriend. These days no I haven’t been for years.
It was conversations with a Swedish friend who told me what was going on in Malmo particularly that raised my awareness of it. By his account it’s a nightmare.
I guess if your blueprint for societal evolution and progression is Luton, then yes, you’re right, you’re certainly going places. If not so then it’s perhaps a bit more of a problem. And I think that’s where the real disconnect lies, between those that want to be more like London and Paris and those that value what Sweden once was.
Btw, my Swedish friend isn’t a right wing thug who’d have any time for the Swedish Democrats he’s an eye surgeon at Moorfields eye hospital and usually the smartest guy in the room.
JustB says
After Trump said that parts of London and New York were no-go areas and police feared for their lives because of mass radicalisation, Boris, bless him, said “the only reason I wouldn’t go to some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump.”
Kaisfatdad says
Nice one Boris! Have an Up.
Sad to say, even though Trump may not be in with a real chance, he’s already doing his country’s reputation abroad a lot of damage.
The story was on the Swedish TV news last night and the impression that was being given was that this dreadful man, with the hairstyle from hell and the political subtlety and finesse of Godzilla, was a serious contender for the White House.
Jim Cain says
I think Trump’s UK equivalent is not Nigel Farage, but Tyson Fury.
JustB says
@jim-cain In that people appear to want to ban him or to force him to shut up, rather than just letting him lose an election? Yep! 🙂
garyjohn says
Trump can’t lose. Because even if he loses, he’s already won. Publicity is all he cares about, his ego is Jimmy Savile-sized and that’s about as big as it gets. Telling the uneducated, reactionary fuckwits what they think they want to hear is self-advertising gold. It’s super clever borderline evil marketing.
Jim Cain says
@disappointmentbob Yes, they have both this week voiced genuinely ridiculous opinions, which should therefore be met with ridicule rather than censorship or e-petitions.
JustB says
Totally agree. This whole thing about Fury and the (who cares anyway?) BBC SPOTY award is very easily fixed. If you feel strongly that he shouldn’t win because of his silly views, phone up and vote for someone else.
The news said today that he was being “very seriously investigated” by Greater Manchester police after a hate speech complaint was made. So two coppers are probably going to waste a day interviewing the great tit, then writing up the interview, then following up, before concluding that there’s no case to answer on account of this not being Novosibirsk in 1951, and it’s his business if he has stupid views. He didn’t call for any gay people to be harmed. It wasn’t incitement. It was a born-again evangelical Christian man with 18mm of brain talking shit.
And don’t even get me started on the whole no-platforming safe-space bollocks currently endemic in British universities. When did our young people become such tedious little fucking snowflakes?
Lando Cakes says
Half agree. I care nothing for the latest sporting type who, in a surprise development, turns out to be a complete arse. The involvement of police is indeed an absurd over reaction. The ‘safe spaces’ thing is beyond satire.
However. I have signed the petition to ban Trump from the UK. Partly because it’s quite near to meeting the 100K target that means it must be considered in parliament. But mainly because he meets the usual criterion for such bans: his presence would not be conducive to the public good.
Bingo Little says
Eh? The police are seriously involved in this?
Nothing he’s said to date (at least the stuff I’ve seen) qualifies as “hate speech”. If you stand in the middle of a pub and proclaim that women belong on their backs and make a few homophobic remarks, can you now be prosecuted for it? Or is it only if you’ve a bank of microphones in your face?
Personally, I’d gladly welcome Trump into the UK. You don’t deal with tin-pot demagogues like him by silencing them. You shine a bloody great spotlight on them, wheel out a couple of people who know how to make the opposing argument and make them look a total bellend in front of the largest possible audience. It worked for Nick Griffin, it will work for Trump. Just getting all huffy and offended doesn’t address the issue, and it’s precisely the reaction Trump is looking for anyway.
Sitheref2409 says
You missed the one about sometimes his missus deserves and uppercut and sometimes she doesn’t?
Archie Valparaiso says
I’m waiting – with popcorn – for someone to be investigated for hate speech after saying that gays or transsexuals are “an abomination”, and then promptly countersuing on the grounds of infringement of their faith-related human rights. Oh, what larks.
If someone mischievous tried to pursue in court the claim that the Bible and other Hawley Bukes were inciting racial hatred and homophobia and therefore contravened current hate-speech legislation, might they not have a point?
ernietothecentreoftheearth says
A pedant writes. Just to avoid any evangelicals writing in and complaining, I think that Fury is a Catholic.
Jed Clampett says
Reading the transcript of his interview with Oliver Holt I can’t see what you would charge him with, but once a complaint is made I think the police have to investigate it.
The basis for the investigation is a bit unclear. Being a tit has not been criminalized, so presumably he is suspected of a public order offence, but there is no way it could ever be prosecuted as far as I can see.
DougieJ says
“…once a complaint is made I think the police have to investigate it.”
Really?
Don’t get me wrong, that’s my general impression as well but I wonder if any legally-inclined AW-ers can offer any enlightenment?
Johnny Concheroo says
Well, let’s hope the police investigate Trump as thoroughly as they investigate those Islamic “hate preachers” we hear so much about.
Hang on, that’s not at all, isn’t it?
ewenmac says
How are you defining “not at all?”
Anjem Choudary – the Islamic “hate preacher” you hear most about, has just been charged with, er, preaching hate. Or “inviting support for Islamic State.”
Johnny Concheroo says
Perhaps they’ll pursue him with the same dogged persistence they applied to the Islamic rape gangs in Rotherham?
ewenmac says
With a prison sentence of up to 11 years?
Maybe they will.
Jed Clampett says
I am certainly no legal eagle, but this is off the Home Office website on the sequence:
1. police identify that a crime may have been committed
2. police decide whether or not to investigate
3. police investigate and, if they consider that there is sufficient evidence to charge, refer the case to the Crown Prosecution Service
4. Crown Prosecution Service consider whether there is sufficient evidence to prosecute
5. Crown Prosecution Service consider whether a prosecution is required in the public interest
garyjohn says
Ditto. Tyson Fury. He’s got a platform and for the sake of his ego, he’s gonna use it.
Kaisfatdad says
That is depressingly true GaryJohn. Many of these bigots are master of the news-worthy sound-bite. The media just can’t get enough of them.
They are also very adept at claiming to speak for the man in the street and saying the things that the political establishment don’t dare say.
Ridicule is a good weapon. And humour and satire.
Time for a reboot of Spitting Image?
pencilsqueezer says
Fury Trump. A gaseous eruption from a face sphincter.
chiz says
I can’t understand the logic of signing a petition to ban someone from your country because they want to ban people from their country. This seems to be happening a lot – the clamour to silence voices we don’t like. Let him in, let him speak, and pull him apart in the debate. It won’t be hard.
fortuneight says
Yes, that’s how I see it but on the other hand it’s amusing to see how it’s winding up some of the bat-shit crazy right wing
https://t.co/UTWEpVkCut
DogFacedBoy says
The petition is pure mischief making and silliness with Armando Iannuci getting right behind it on Twitter. Fight ridiculousness with a big fat raspberry.
More of this sort of thing
chiz says
Ah, hypocrisy in action. Very clever. I hope that subtlety is appreciated by the people who are signing it.
David Kendal says
Don’t worry, it’s on the Internet, which has been found to be the ideal medium for irony and nuance.
Kaisfatdad says
Does Trump actually have any plans to visit the UK?
If he does, let him in. He’ll soon make a fool of himself.
Trying to ban him just further inflates his bloated self-image.
Sitheref2409 says
He didn’t when he was in Scotland buddying up to Wee Eck
Jed Clampett says
Isn’t he in litigation in the UK over the decision to put wind farms too close to his golf course in Scotland?
DogFacedBoy says
Yes watch the ‘You’ve Been Trumped’ documentary to see the odious little fartknocker in full effect and how the Scottish politicians and police bent over backwards to do his bidding.
Malc says
I’m sure I heard an interview with Nigel Farage about it this morning. Can’t remember his exact words but the gist of it was “I say, that’s going a bit too far”
In other news the petition has reached 140k which means it gets debating time in Parliament.
JustB says
Oh my fuck, I’ve just heard that students on Lancaster University’s Eng Lit course have asked that “trigger warnings” be added to the course outlines to warn the wee flowers that some literature may contain HUMAN LIFE.
FUCK. OFF.
Johnny Concheroo says
From the latest Private Eye:
http://i.imgur.com/IIfe87j.jpg
JustB says
Every student union in the UK should be papered with that until the end of time. Perfect.
Moose the Mooche says
As far as I can tell, these days student unions are papered with posters for lapdancing nights.
And Kasabian tribute acts.
pencilsqueezer says
We’re all doomed!
Jim Cain says
I’ve seen it argued that the phrase ‘trigger warning’ should be replaced with ‘content warning’ as the word trigger could be triggering for victims of gun crime.
ernietothecentreoftheearth says
I have a phobia of the equine companions of Holywood cowboys. Jim’s suggestion will help avoid any number of unfortunate misunderstanding.
Jim Cain says
Up!
Vim Fuego says
Trump is a twat, and no mistake, but we shouldn’t kid ourselves too much. If someone here proposed an end to all further muslim immigration, plenty of voices would be raised in support. Seems to have gained quite a lot of traction in France in the current elections too.
fortuneight says
That would be the stance of Pegida UK, new home of EDL cast off “Tommy Robinson”
Vim Fuego says
His petition has got over 140,000 signatures, but the Independent is reporting that his views have the support of 25% of the British public.
Bingo Little says
How utterly depressing.
Kaisfatdad says
I was amused to read that Huffington Post had all their coverage of the Trump campaign on their Entertainment pages rather Politics. They felt that it was the only appropriate place to put a circus.
Bingo Little says
niscum says
I am I the only one who thinks he has a good point?
count jim moriarty says
Yes.
Bingo Little says
Just you, 25% of the British public and a narrow majority of Republican voters.
niscum says
Just me then 🙂
chiz says
and 21% of Labour voters, for goodness sake. The world’s turned upside down.
niscum says
Fuck me, where I grew up everyone was labour and everyone was racist.
Bingo Little says
My least favourite Fall album.
ewenmac says
Arf! Out Loud.
Have an up ↑
Lando Cakes says
He is certainly making a point. The question is whether it is one that stands up to rational scrutiny (the general benchmark for ‘having’ a point). And the answer to that question is ‘no’.
niscum says
*serious face* no, do please go on.
Johnny Concheroo says
Even though it’s quite unworkable in practice, I think Trump has a good point too.
Radical Islam is a major threat to the west. It’s not something that is going to go away any time soon and needs to be discussed freely at the very least.
retropath2 says
Let’s ban religion. Never did the Soviet Union any harm.
Diddley Farquar says
This brave new world of reality TV/social media seems to be going well doesn’t it? Really unites people in their suspicion of and resentment toward muslims in a heartwarming way.
niscum says
unity’s a good thing, right?
Johnny Concheroo says
I’m sure the families of the Charlie Hebdo staff and other Paris victims are feeling very warm of heart right about now
Diddley Farquar says
Well I’m sure there will be plenty of relatives/friends of those killed who will despair at the growing anti-muslim response in some quarters, because they know this extremist element is not in any way representative of muslims and will only encourage hate and violence. My point is that I wonder at a world where a couple of charmless opportunists who are monsters made from reality TV and social media get to be cheerleaders for a dangerous anti-muslim backlash. They are fanning the flames and adding petrol to a fire for their own careerist ends.
Jed Clampett says
@niscum, you make more interesting arguments than Ianess. Have to continue here it seems, I can’t reply to you above.
“Mass immigration of Muslims” is a terrible policy because Muslims “have fundamentally different cultural values than those of the countries where they wish to reside”.
Religion and culture are not the same thing, and I think you know this. There is a huge range of diversity within the Muslim world. Morocco is completely different from Syria, which is completely different from Pakistan.
Based on the sample of people I know and have met, I just see people who want their kids to be safe, happy and successful. They came to Sweden exactly because they want to get away from people who insist on an extreme interpretation of Islam.
There are people on all sides who make this about faith, and I think they are part of the problem. That definitely includes some Swedish Muslims, who put themselves forward as “leaders” or “spokesmen” because they see this as an issue they can ride to get money, power and influence. Most of the Muslims I know have no time for such people, and I think pandering to them is one mistake the current Swedish government is making. I think that penny has started to drop though, and it will be corrected.
The Sweden Democrats are in crisis because their leader, who is certainly a very smart guy, is trying to transform them into a “normal” party. That is being resisted by the Angry White Men who started the party and now feel they are being pushed to one side by people who are on the right of politics, but operate within civilized boundaries. If this succeeds then Sweden will have a new mainstream conservative party that sheds itself of the knuckledraggers … which is perfectly fine. If it fails then they will collapse and the people they added at the last election will go somewhere else. Where will they go? … that is an interesting question. The parties that could once have attracted such people (the Centre Party, which grew out of rural and agrarian communities that have largely disappeared; the Christian Democrats; the Liberal Party) seem to be in terminal decline. So the centre-right Moderate Party is the most likely … which would move Sweden close to being a 2-party system.
I think the collapse is more likely than successful transformation, but I would certainly not rule out either option.
ianess says
Apologies for being ‘uninteresting’, though this is rather rich given the turgid, untrue drivel you’ve spouted so far.
There have been studies showing migrants and descendants of migrants are much more represented in cases of rape by a significant factor and this has been the case for over 20 years.
The riots are not simply Nazi/ anti- Nazi affairs. You admit yourself its disaffected youths, presumably Muslim. How’s that integration playing out? Typically, you blame yourselves for not providing sufficient job opportunities as if this were the key.
As for economic growth, there’s a UN study showing your wealth is going to plummet over the next two decades as your welfare bill soars.
As niscum has pointed out, the offspring of Muslim immigrants have proven to be more devout and less keen to assimilate.
As for no-go areas; you state, IIRC, that there are around 55 areas in Sweden where police have difficulties operating. How long has this been the case.
As Swedes are ‘smart’ people, to use your self-regarding phrase, here’s a maths problem for you. Given the current demographics and the relative fecundity of immigrants as compared to indigenous Swedes, how long before the joyous day arrives when Sweden becomes a Muslim country.?
Jed Clampett says
“There have been studies showing migrants and descendants of migrants are much more represented in cases of rape by a significant factor and this has been the case for over 20 years.”
Show me where I can find one, I promise to read it.
“The riots are not simply Nazi/ anti- Nazi affairs.”
I never said they were. I just said that the 2 most recent incidents which could be called “riots” were. The Husby riots were certainly disaffected youth … but the Muslim tag is just your presumption. Pretty much all the youth in Husby are pissed off. Just to put it in context for you, Husby has about 12,000 inhabitants. A tiny number of those rioted, and the riots stopped when the parents began patrolling and basically told their kids to go home. This is the sample you are using to show the failure of integration policy in the country.
“there are around 55 areas in Sweden where police have difficulties operating”. The areas are parts of cities, not cities. I live in one of them. The police difficulties are caused by a youth gang culture that has unfortunately grown up rather quickly. The police analysis of gang culture in Stockholm is that gangs do not form around ethnicity or religion. They form at school, among groups of mates, and then survive after school age.
“There’s a UN study showing your wealth is going to plummet over the next 2 decades”. Point me to it and I will read it.
Niscum is interesting, you are just a bit simple.
Jed Clampett says
Incidentally, for what it is worth, I live in Sweden. I come from South Wales.
ianess says
‘Bit simple’. That’s a devastating insult from a Welshman, given your country ‘s reputation as an intellectual powerhouse.
UNHDI report. Google it.
As for rapes, BRA report for one, among many others. Easily found on Google.
I suppose one can be fairly insouciant about handing over a nation state when one does not belong there.
As regards riots, I’m talking about Malmo and Gothenburg. You’re the one mentioning Husby.
If I were faced with an either/or choice between Trump’s stance and Merkel’s ‘come one, come all’ invite to ‘refugees’ which has led to a large-scale invasion of Europe, I’d go for the former.
After all, who but a self-loathing, virtue-signalling idiot would willingly invite into their educated, tolerant society hundreds of thousands of adherents of an ideology/religion that hates Jews, kills homosexuals and apostates, treats women as chattels, despises ‘infidels’, loathes and is unable to come to terms with Western culture, mutilates the genitalia of young women and supports terrorist acts in the name of Allah? What could possibly go wrong?
Jed Clampett says
Thank you for indicating what your views are based on. I didn’t think it was necessary to take you seriously. Now I know for sure.
The Brå report you are talking about is a study from the 1980s that anti-Muslim groups have extrapolated from to provide “evidence” for their prejudices.
The “data” is on a blog produced by people who are barely literate, and who explain on their site (and I quote): “This blog collect and update international statistics, government statistics, newspaper articles and reports related to Muslim immigration and Muslim issues in non-Muslim societies. We are unable to respond to emails asking for references.”
But let there be no doubt about their credentials! After all, we can read in their report that their ludicrous assertion that Muslim men committed 78 per cent of all rapes in Sweden (and here is the exact language): “has been anonymously confirmed by Swedish polish in a phone conversation.”
The “riots” in Malmö and Gothenburg are only called that by e.g. Sputnik news in Russia and online newspapers closely aligned to the Sweden Democrats. Everyone else calls them what they are … a disturbing increase in violence associated with gang culture.
The UN report you mention is the one that is used to make a sensationalist article on Speisa.com … a right wing propaganda site. The people who wrote that article have taken 1 table out of context from a paper they don’t understand to support a nonsense argument.
If you want a more serious assessment of how the Swedish economy is developing you could look at the OECD analysis here:
http://www.oecd.org/eco/outlook/sweden-economic-forecast-summary.htm
Now I understand where you get your ideas from I see I misjudged you. I thought you were just stupid, but it turns out you are both stupid and nasty. This correspondence is closed as they say.
ip33 says
Have a Xmas up arrow!
Sitheref2409 says
Have two up arrows
ianess says
It matters little what evidence is presented to you. If contrary to your prejudices, you complain it’s been used by right-wing bloggers or just simply deny its truth.
As for rape, the mass grooming, rape and prostitution of vulnerable youngsters in Rotherham was both denied and covered up by the local authorities for over a decade because they did not wish to upset ‘community cohesion’. Do you really imagine that the numerous reports of an upsurge in this crime are due to mischief-making.
You mention ‘gang violence’. What is the make-up of these gangs? Mainly blonde Swedes, mainly Muslim immigrants? Curious to know.
Your OECD Report is rather unenlightening as it only appears to deal with the very short term. Interestingly, though, it does make reference to the major issues that will be involved in integrating immigrants into the workforce.
‘nasty’. Why? Because I disagree with your assertions that all will be sweetness and light in your multicultural Paradise?
‘Stupid’? Nice ad hom. Duly applauded by our resident, self-confessed thicko.
Tiggerlion says
Reports of rape in Sweden have increased dramatically since 2005 when the legislation changed to include acts that in most other countries would be classified as sexual assault. The police record each individual event as a rape, whereas most countries count each victim once. These factors conflate the figures of rape allegations considerably and give the appearance that Sweden has the highest rate of rape in the world.
https://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-english/home/news-from-bra/archive/news/2011-01-18-how-common-is-rape-in-sweden-compared-to-other-european-countries.html
Sweden hasn’t collected data on immigrant involvement in rape since 2006. Before then, the data was on convictions not allegations. Sweden’s ratio of prosecutions to allegations is tiny (unsurprising given the skew to the allegation numbers) but its overall rate of prosecution is in keeping with other European countries. When data was collected, it did show that immigrants were more successfully convicted. This is all immigrants, not just Muslim immigrants. I would suggest that there may be a bias here, too, in that an allegation may be more thoroughly investigated, a prosecution more enthusiastically pursued and a jury more inclined to believe the victim when a non-White immigrant is the alleged perpetrator. I may be wrong.
https://ofpsychandsociety.wordpress.com/2015/09/24/immigration-and-crime-in-scandinavia/
The truth is Sweden’s stats on rape allegation are subject to both a categorisation and a reporting error compared to other countries. The conviction rate of immigrants are currently unknown but could well have had observer bias when they were collected.
You and I have discussed grooming on another thread. White ‘gangs’ do it, too, but I agree Rotherham authorities were stupid.
Sitheref2409 says
Fucking hell, but that’s a bit of a goalpost shift isn’t it?
You go on and on about problems in Sweden, and then when your claims are largely debunked you try to use Rotherham to prove your point.
I wonder if you could speak to me about how much Muslims have failed to integrate into the USA? Where they’ve killed less people than crazy white men?
Your cant comes perilously close to racism.
ip33 says
Have a massive thicko up!
fentonsteve says
Where they’ve killed *fewer* people…
Sitheref2409 says
Point well made and acknowledged
ianess says
‘Crazy white men’ have indeed killed masses of people, mainly because they were crazy, not because of an ideology that gives permission to kill infidels. White people also massively outnumber Muslims I the U.S. Anyway, with 9/11, Boston Marathon, Fort Hood and San Bernardino, they’re doing their level best to catch up.
ivylander says
It baffles me that we talk about crazy vs. ‘ideologically driven’ as if the choice were an either/or. The fellow who just opened fire on the Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado called himself ‘a warrior for the babies’ – referring to the right’s consistent (and inaccurate) depiction of PP as an abortion-performing, foetal tissue-harvesting cabal. And while you could hardly call Timothy McVeigh’s (he of the Oklahoma City bombing) ideology coherent, he did act out of a belief that he was avenging, among other things, the government’s shootout with white supremacist Randy Weaver in Ruby Ridge, Idaho; what’s more, The Turner Diaries, a novel widely circulated in white supremacist circles, was in his car at the time of the bombing. The point? That crazy people can use ideology as a justification for the harm they do – and perhaps even that unbalanced people are more susceptible to the false certainties of ideology.
One final point, can we stop referring to Muslims as ‘they’? It’s one short step from making them ‘the other’ to asserting, as too many people I’ve heard, that ‘they all hate us’. This is used as justification for everything from refusing suffering people asylum to dropping bombs on them.
Sitheref2409 says
So white men who kill people are crazy; muslims are following a bad religion.
Tim McVeigh was a crazy man, and not following a political agenda?
And as a side note, we were talking about the risk muslims present through their inability to assimilate. The 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi, a country that right wing governments seem to want to do their level best to buddy up to.
ianess says
‘Waaycisst’! Enlighten me. Is Islam a race? Are Muslims a race?
‘largely debunked’? Hardly.
niscum says
@jed-clampett – thanks for your reply.
“Religion and culture are not the same thing, and I think you know this. There is a huge range of diversity within the Muslim world.”
Agreed. I refer to the one broad Islamic culture that pervades the region. But I think you’ll agree that some societies have a stronger emphasis on certain elements of Islam which are most incompatible with secular western democracy. Those that do not, or are more free thinking in their interpretation of the Koran eg Turks, Kurds, Berbers etc (all non-Arabs), would adjust, integrate and contribute quicker in our societies than the others.
But that is not to say that we in the West should have any obligation whatsoever to take in people from any of these countries for any reason other than historic colonial ties. We and France bear the brunt of that particular burden, and I’d say both have comfortably paid off that debt with interest. Implicit-obligation-over. It has to stop at some point.
One might argue that Germany, uniquely, has a humanitarian ‘atonement’ debt to pay off from WWII which with one in ten of their population now ‘foreign’ you might argue is covered too.
What on earth places like Sweden want to get in on the action for is beyond me.
” Based on the sample of people I know and have met, I just see people who want their kids to be safe, happy and successful.”
Ok, this would be my experience too. But this does not in any way create a responsibility on our part to invite more over. In fact you might even argue you need to limit or stop immigration so that those already here can flourish and succeed.
“They came to Sweden exactly because they want to get away from people who insist on an extreme interpretation of Islam”
I doubt this. They came there for free money, free healthcare, free housing, free schooling, free education and to continue their way of life exactly as it was in back home but with added money.
This type of immigration is irresponsible; it will solve nothing in the countries from where the immigrants come – in fact it destabilises those places – and, worse, it creates problems here for generations to come.
Worrying about world events – Syria, Libya, Chechnya, Bosnia, pick-a-country, regardless of plight, is just a form of displacement activity for worrying about oneself. It’s always a certain type of person that indulges in it. We all know them, they’re a caricature Guardian liberal.
I’d say put the Guardian news section down and go get some sex. Or therapy or something.
Basket cases will always be thus. Allah so decreed.
🙂
Johnny Concheroo says
Good post @niscum, nicely articulated
Tiggerlion says
I don’t agree with most of this post, niscum, but I respect it. I wish you’d express yourself as intelligently and as reasoned more often.
Diddley Farquar says
So to sum up, people only have compassion because they’re not getting enough sex, and refugees aren’t really bothered about Isis and war in their country they just want government handouts.
niscum says
Erm no. We in Europe have no moral obligation to permanently take in refugees and economic migrants from war torn/chaotic parts of the globe where there is no cultural or historical affinity – and even then it should be carefully managed – and especially where the religion is one that is fundamentally at odds with our way of life.
People who obsessively worry about wars and disasters and world events are not more compassionate that people who don’t. That is an self-absorbed myth. It’s just easier for them to worry about far off ‘big’ events than for them to worry about things closer to home: friends, family and neighbours. Look at Bob Geldof.
They’re hiding something or not facing up to something as sure as is the moraliser who points indignantly to others behaviour.
I say go get some sex, that’s just offered up as an idea. It may be you need to make that appointment with the doctor about your ankle you’ve been meaning to do for ages but just somehow manage to keep putting off. Go on, go and do it.
Diddley Farquar says
I wasn’t expressing any opinion there, just interpreting what you said, albeit in a glib, jokey fashion. You seem to have some special power that enables you to see what you are sure are people’s true motives behind their apparent, expressed intentions, despite not really knowing anything about them.
I certainly don’t worry especially about world events. Humanity’s been lurching from one potential apocalpytic crisis to another since time immemorial. We’re just here having a discussion.
niscum says
Ooooooh snappy!
Actually I wasn’t saying you were expressing an opinion, I was simply correcting your ‘glib, jokey’ summation. Though tbh, I suspect you’re probably someone who doesn’t carry off ‘jokey’ too well though. ‘Glib’ yes, ‘jokey’ no.
Special powers? No, not really. Just well a worn theory about the type of person who is always keen to worry about the plight of others in distant places.
Ps – re the ‘jokey’ thing? Maybe do one of these 😉 (winky thing) when you’re being jokey so we know and don’t take you on face value and just assume you’re a grumpy, glib git. 🙂 (joke!!)
ernietothecentreoftheearth says
So much for the notion of any Celtic brotherhood.
pencilsqueezer says
Oh there is a Celtic brotherhood, it’s just that us fick Welshies couldn’t spell iunuss so we didn’t send him the memo.
SteveT says
Who is iunuss? Is he a distant relative of that twat ianess?
ianess says
‘twat’? Another ad hom. Charming.
Moose the Mooche says
I don’t have anything to say on this subject, I’d just like to see if my thread-killing powers are still up to par.
Moose the Mooche says
My powers are diminishing. Age, I suppose.
DogFacedBoy says
Ladies & Gentlemen, MtM probably the greatest thread killer this side of the world
Moose the Mooche says
Ahhh yeah, well ard!
mikethep says
Thread killer, qu’est que c’est?
Johnny Concheroo says
This thread was on the Road To Nowhere anyway
Moose the Mooche says
I got my black shirt on.
I got my black gloves on.
I got my ski mask on.
This shit’s been too long.
I got my twelve gauge sawed off.
I got my headlights turned off.
I’m ’bout to bust some shots off.
I’m ’bout to dust some Threads off.
Thread killer, better you than me.
Thread killer, f**k thread brutality!
Thread killer, I know your family’s grievin’
(f**k ’em)
Thread killer, but tonight we get even.
I got my brain on hype.
Tonight’ll be your night.
I got this long-assed knife,
and your neck looks just right.
My adrenaline’s pumpin’.
I got my stereo bumpin’.
I’m ’bout to kill me somethin’
A thread stopped me for nuthin’!
Thread killer, better you than me.
Thread killer, f**k thread brutality!
Thread killer, I know your mama’s grievin’
(f**k her)
Thread killer, but tonight we get even.
Die, die, die thread, die!
F**k the thread!
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F**k the thread!
F**k the thread!
F**k the thread!
F**k the thread!
F**k the thread yeah!
Thread killer, better you than me.
I’m a Thread killer, f**k thread brutality!
Thread killer, I know your family’s grievin’
(f**k ’em)
Thread killer, but tonight we get even.
F**k the thread!
F**k the thread!
F**k the thread!
F**k the thread!
F**k the thread!
F**k the thread!
F**k the thread!
F**k the thread, break it down.
F**k the thread, yeah.
F**k the thread, for Darryl Gates.
F**k the thread, for Rodney King.
F**k the thread, for my dead homies.
F**k the thread, for your freedom.
F**k the thread, don’t be a pussy.
F**k the thread, have some muthaf**kin’ courage.
F**k the thread, sing along.
Thread killer!
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Thread killer, what you’re gonna be when you grown up?
Thread killer, good choice.
Thread killer!
I’m a muthaf**kin’ Thread killer!
Thread killer, better you than me.
Thread killer, f**k thread brutality!
Thread killer, I know your mama’s grievin’
(f**k her)
Thread killer, but tonight we get even!
Diddley Farquar says
Reasons to be cheerful parte trois. France National look set to win nothing in French elections and Bernie Saunders is more popular in US than Trump despite being behind Clinton, though the media are giving disproportionate coverage to Trump, a la Farage in UK hitherto.
Kaisfatdad says
Replying to Niscum, I certainly agree with your comment: “People who obsessively worry about wars and disasters and world events are not more compassionate that people who don’t.”
Kindness and charity begin at home. If you are so upset about a war in a country far away that you fail to see the problems and suffering of your own family, your neighbours or those in your local community, then you need to rethink your perspective.
Having said that, I think it’s wonderful when people give generously to help a cause like earthquake victims in Nepal. There’s no direct moral obligation perhaps, just compassion for others’ suffering.
Especially so when schoolkids get involved. A child born in a country like Sweden, the UK, Australia etc has really won the lottery.
They will probably never go hungry. They don’t live in fear every day.They have functioning schools, hospitals, public transport etc. (OK, I know things are far from perfect even in the places I mentioned)
But without laying all the woes of the world on their small shoulders, it is a good thing to gently remind of their good fortune from time to time.
Lando Cakes says
Anent Islam. For me it comes down to this: do I believe that Richard Thompson wants to murder my family? Only with his killer guitar solos.
I might also point to the United Against Extremism campaign, initiated by Britain’s oldest Muslim community. they’ve put adverts on 100 London buses but it’s just possible that you may have missed it on the news.
http://www.loveforallhatredfornone.org/extremism/
Johnny Concheroo says
Cat Stevens on the other hand….
mikethep says
Yusuf Islam has calmed down a bit recently. Wikipedia:
“Estimating in January 2007 that he was continuing to earn approximately US$1.5 million a year from his Cat Stevens music,[71] he said he would use his accumulated wealth and ongoing earnings from his music career on philanthropic and educational causes in the Muslim community of London and elsewhere. In 1983, he founded the Islamia Primary School in Brondesbury Park, later moved to Salisbury Road,[72] in the north London area of Queen’s Park[1] and, soon after, founded several Muslim secondary schools; in 1992, he set up The Association of Muslim Schools (AMS-UK), a charity that brought together all the Muslim schools in the UK. He is also the founder and chairman of the Small Kindness charity, which initially assisted famine victims in Africa and now supports thousands of orphans and families in the Balkans, Indonesia, and Iraq.[73] He served as chairman of the charity Muslim Aid from 1985 to 1993.”
You might want to note that he received substantial damages from the Sun and Sunday Times over suggestions that he supported terrorism…
Johnny Concheroo says
Significantly Cat has dropped the now-toxic “Islam” from his name as it appears on his CD sleeves.
As for Cat’s support for the death sentence imposed on Salman Rushdie, there is no doubt about that.
With the zeal of the newly converted he said “He (Rushdie) must be killed. The Qur’an makes it clear – if someone defames the prophet, then he must die.”
But he was only saying what the good book told him to say, so that’s OK, isn’t it?
From Wiki:
On 21 February 1989, Yusuf Islam addressed students at Kingston University in London about his conversion to Islam and was asked about the controversy in the Muslim world and the fatwa calling for Salman Rushdie’s execution. He replied, “He must be killed. The Qur’an makes it clear – if someone defames the prophet, then he must die.”
Newspapers quickly denounced what was seen as Yusuf Islam’s support for the killing of Rushdie and the next day Yusuf released a statement saying that he was not personally encouraging anybody to be a vigilante,and that he was only stating that blasphemy is a capital offence according to the Qur’an.
Johnny Concheroo says
Salman speaks:
mikethep says
I know. I said he’d calmed down a bit, I believe?
Johnny Concheroo says
Yes, but your final paragraph hinted that it had all been a big mistake and we should forgive and forget
I wanted to point out that we should never forget that Cat Stevens unequivocally supported a call for the death of a writer in the name of his newly adopted religion.
Raymond says
Exactly that.
Cat Stevens wanted a writer, a fellow artist, to be killed for stuff that he put in a work of fiction.
Fuck him and his ‘calmed down’ attitude.
Johnny Concheroo says
Exactly.
And yet the music press still put him on the cover of their magazines and review his work as if it all never happened.
Diddley Farquar says
Faith schools though? A good thing? Don’t they help foster a sense of them and us? Better to break down these divisions rather than have them more entrenched.
Lando Cakes says
Absolutely. Good luck with finding a Scottish politician brave enough to say so though.
mikethep says
No, my final paragraph was a wry little sally about how those who published any suggestion that YA supported terrorism might receive a call from Messrs Sue, Grabbit and Runne.
I haven’t forgotten that YI unequivocally called etc…I was a friend of Rushdie’s at the time (it would be a stretch to say I am now). I was at his wife’s 50th birthday party the moment the fatwa was announced. I witnessed the terrifying phone calls, and the arrival of the law suggesting we might like to go home. So I don’t need a lecture.
You can either choose to hate YI for ever and a day, or you can allow for the possibility that he might have seen the error of his ways. Up to you.
Johnny Concheroo says
I’m impressed that you were a friend of the mighty Salman and were on the spot when it all kicked off. He’s a great man. Respect.
On the other hand I don’t recall ever reading or hearing a single syllable implying that Cat has “seen the error of his ways” regarding his support for the fatwa. No apology, no backtracking, only fudging and obfuscation. How could there be? You can’t deny the word of the Prophet.
As for the “I don’t need a lecture” part of your reply. You’ll have to explain that to me.
It was you who responded to my throwaway one liner with chapter and verse from Wiki.
mikethep says
40th birthday party, important to be accurate.
Never mind JC, for reasons I won’t go into I’m going through a bit of an emotional patch at the moment and I’m on a bit of a hair trigger. Right now it seems very important not to hate – there are quite enough people hating as it is. Me and my mate Jesus, we don’t like it.
Let’s just stick to talking bollocks about popular beat combos.
Johnny Concheroo says
It’s probably for the best Mike.
Although the “bollocks” of which you speak is more important than religion to some of us.
Diddley Farquar says
Exactly. Someone said to me the other day that The Beatles don’t matter. Now I’m going to have to take a contract out on them (if the FBI is monitoring this – it’s just a joke). You can soon get radicalised here, recalling sacred texts from the NME and the like.
Diddley Farquar says
Of course we are divided into diferent factions here. There are those who deny the greatness of 1971 for example. To me they are as good as blasphemers.
Lando Cakes says
Well there’s the rub: the prophet said different things at different times. Hence there are different schools of thought on this and other issues. Islam is not the monolith that it is sometimes made out to be.
fentonsteve says
Here’s something to put the cat amongst the pigeons. Calling Bob…
I heard a pair of speakers on Friday which weigh 55kg each and cost £9599 a pair.
I am considering purchasing them.
duco01 says
What speakers are those, fentonsteve?
ewenmac says
They sound like typical Guardian-reading bien pensant multicultural politically-correct liberal lefty Hampstead speakers that would let in every Jihadi posing as a refugee.
Or something.
ewenmac says
On the other hand; what are they and where did you hear them?
davebigpicture says
Possibly these?
http://hifilounge.co.uk/image/attachments/Focal/Focal_Sopra_HiFi-News_Sept15.pdf
fentonsteve says
Yes, to all. These are they http://www.focal.com/en/sopra/545-sopra-n2.html
They’re a bit space-age looking but the engineering principles applied are all sound (no pun intended). Massive cabinet um… mass, no parallel faces or sharp corners, aligned voice coils, big magnets and lightweight stiff drivers, etc. Made in the land of cheese-eating surrender-monkeys (and my FPO’s homeland).
I heard them in a boutique shop in a converted barn in the Bedfordshire countryside run by a middle-aged Radiohead and Springsteen fan. http://hifilounge.co.uk/
My 10-y-o car might have to limp on for another few years.
ewenmac says
That looks like somewhere I might have to make a pilgrimage to one day. These speakers are getting some amazing reviews – as they should for £9599 obv but some seriously good reviews.
fentonsteve says
They’re very, very, good indeed – they make my PMC monitors sound like they’re playing through a woolly blanket. And they’re an excellent thread-killer.
Paul and Wendy at HFL are welcoming, enthusiastic, knowledgeable and nuts about music. You will fit right in.
Paul and I were at secondary school together, albeit he two years above me. He’s a very expensive friend to have.
ewenmac says
Cool! An AW connection. When I was a sprog a friend of my dad’s had a Linn Sondeck turntable, Naim amp, a pair of bespoke monitors from the old Strawberry Studios and a great record collection – so a lot of stuff I heard for the first time was on that system; Aja, Don Juan’s Reckless Daughter, Surfs Up etc. obviously these albums sound great on anything but to hear them on kit like that was mind-blowing.
JustB says
Ha. Knock yourself out, Steve. It’s your money!