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The Official Afterword World Cup Football Thread

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England are. playing on Wednesday againstT cROATIA.

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    • Last night’s Japan game was the best I’ve seen so far this tournament. I’m maintaining redundant bedtimes so that deprived me of seeing Scotland’s opening match, which I’m sure I would have enjoyed just as much of only for the novelty of us winning a World Cup match.

    • I was in a pub in Toronto watching with a bunch of Japanese fans. Was wonderful when they equalized for 2-2

      And despite saying I had no interest I have been watching a bit. Fuck FIFA, but it’s still the World Cup and it’s still special when you witness things like that

  2. After slipping into the World Cup on a banana peel, Sweden beat Tunisia 5-1 in our first match very early this morning, and just like that people went from sour indifference to hopeful excitement (and lots of World Cup ´94 nostalgia)…
    Don’t worry, we have plenty of time to fuck it up yet, but they did look good!
    Which in a way is annoying, because I had hoped to be able to quietly boycott it, and if Sweden is going to play well, I won’t have the moral strength to do so (because it doesn’t happen that often)!

  3. The Socceroos were immense. Two brilliant goals on the break and consistently solid defending did for the Turks. Their manager, who is Italian and therefore not entirely rational, claimed Australia’s bunch of losers didn’t allow his team of expensive show ponies to play their normal brilliant game, and were therefore in some way unsporting. From where I sat it looked like they never really turned up – they thought they’d walk it and didn’t know what to do when they couldn’t.

    It was like the Battle of Gallipoli in reverse.

  4. Iran v NZ was an exciting 2-2! I watched the last 10 minutes in the lunchroom and it really could have gone either way.

    “Interestingly”… from the 14 games so far, no team listed on the right of the fixture (i.e. the “away” team) has won a game yet!

  5. Unfortunately a lot of the matches are on at awkward times for me so I’ve watched very little so far. I did watch a lack lustre Spain yesterday and caught the first half of the Belgium vs Egypt match. I keep telling myself that I’ll watch on iPlayer but I’m struggling to get enthused over this World Cup which is odd as I’ve watched pretty much every one since 1966.

      • “Almost Australian” – moi exactly! I have no expectations of NZ, draw with Iran notwithstanding, but yeah I’d love to see Australia go as far as they can.

    • Australian rugby union team = The Wallabies. Fine.
      Australian rugby league team = The Kangaroos. Also fine.
      Now, I’m no expert on Australian fauna, but surely there’s no such animal as a Socceroo?
      I don’t rate it as a nickname. It should be a proper animal instead.
      Can’t they be called the Wombats or the Echidnas or the Funnel Web Spiders …. or how about the Tasmanian Devils?

      • My vote goes for the Quokka. When my son was learning his ABCs he went through a phase of making alphabets from his plastic toy animals (Alligator, bear, cat, you get the idea). This was fine until you get to Q. There isn’t a animal tub set in the world that has a Quokka. I think a bear or squirrel was drafted in for a while, but I ended up ordering a plastic Quokka from Amazon. I’m sure I’m not the only parent who has ended up doing this. I think there’s a business opportunity in making an A-Z Plastic Animal Tub, Toys R Us if you’re reading. You can have that for nothing.

        Anyway, World Cup, am I the only person on here who thinks that Paraguay were suspiciously bad against the US? I’m not really a big conspiracy theorist when it comes to football but by God they were shite in that first half.

  7. I think France have the best squad and starting 11. Everyone else is in their shadow.

    The first matches always throw up some strange results. I think Spain will get to the semis. Japan (A O, let’s go!) look good. Egypt looked up for it – I was impressed by their defence last night. USA have a good chance I think. Morocco should get to the semis.

    England would be my other semi finalists – I like how the squad looks like a club squad. I have a sneaky suspicion that Tuchel has managed Bellingham really well (and that is part of the reason Henderson is in the squad).

    I think Brazil and Germany will be quite ordinary. And Scotland will rue not scoring more against Haiti.

    Politics aside (and FIFA have been extraordinarily inept at being apolitical), I think it will be a good tournament. Some of the stadiums look fantastic.

  8. Haven’t watched a single moment apart from McGinn’s “wonder goal” (fact check needed). Combination of Trump, Infantino and the ludicrous kick-off times (three in the morning here for Scotland Haiti) means we are boycotting the entire event. “Entire event” might well turn out to last until when Scotland march triumphantly through to the next round and England play somebody interesting.

    • Yeah they need to be arranging kick off times to be 8pm in every country in the world. Fuck FiFA

      I am in the main time zone used for sport scheduling over here (Eastern) but still there are many games kicking off when I am at work or after I go to bed. There are so many games

  10. Australia v USA should be a pretty willing game. Aussie teams are usually pretty physical and American commentators and ex players have mocked Australia as being a lay off game. That has really pissed the Aussies off. Usa players backing away from the arrogance esp post Türkiye game but it will be full on.

  12. I’m no longer a keen football fan, but I like to watch the big events, and the World Cup in particular, because of the sense of occasion, the (generally) higher quality of games, and the shots of the fans from different cultures coming together with their own unique forms of devotion – costumes, make-up, drumming, etc.

    I’m Welsh but always want Germany to win the World Cup because (a) their kit looks cool, (b) they never seem to give up trying to score, no matter how far ahead they might be – no resting on their laurels for them, and (c) I’m a huge fan of the German music scene, and any country where groups like Blutengel and Faun can have Top 40 albums is OK by me.

    This time, though, I want to see newcomers Cape Verde do very well (not win it though – c’mon Germany!). Their game against Spain was one for the ages. Yes, it was only 0-0, but to see this team, ranked 60-something in the world, defend like champions against the tournament favourites, was to watch something very special. I was on the edge of my seat, willing CV to hold on. OK, Spain were probably not on top form and missing some stars, but boy did CV know how to control them. And their 40-year-old (!!!) goalie Vozinha deserves to be carried round the grateful nation in a sedan chair.

    By the end, commentator Lee Dixon sounded on the verge of tears about the islanders’ performance – their first ever World Cup game and this team from a country with a population smaller than Sheffield’s have held the European champions to a draw. When I read that Vozinha’s mum couldn’t attend his big day because she couldn’t afford the £11k travel bond imposed by Trump’s goons, I was on the verge with him.

    Football eh? What a game.

  13. A comment on Twitter today got me thinking. I haven’t seen a single England flag on a house or car since the tournament started, and in previous tournaments they have been everywhere.

    Three possible reasons though I’m open to more:

    A) England haven’t played yet
    B) I now live in Colchester after decades in Chelmsford and they’re just less into it here
    C) Public display of the flag has been so appropriated by the hard right that others are avoiding it for fear of being associated with them? (In which case I say go for it and reclaim the flag if that’s your thing, just avoid lamps posts and other people’s property.)

  15. Despite Infatino and Trump doing their best to make this the most unlikeable World Cup apart from Qatar, I’m loving it. When the football starts the World Cup is almost always great. Cape Verde (including the only Irishman playing in this years World Cup) was just a joyous moment and most of the games I’ve seen have been enjoyable and occasionally brilliant. First half of Brazil v Morocco has probably been the pick so far but it was a shame they both obviously decided in the second half that a draw would be good enough. The fact that 8 third place teams will go through is potentially going to make a lot of teams feel that and I wonder if we may well see more draws than normal in the group stages.

  17. Weren’t France fabulous in the second half of the Senegal game? Hard to see anyone stopping them if they maintain that. And Senegal were by no means bad.

  18. I’m enjoying it a great deal, albeit struggling to keep up with the rush of games at unhelpful times. A few things have struck me so far

    * 3 red cards in an opening game. Bonkers
    * No 0-0 draws so far, with 1-1 the lowest score overall. Early to draw a comparison but there were 7 0-0’s in the 2022 Group stage – the games so far look more open, less cagey. And having said that England will almost certainly draw 0-0 tonight
    * Seeing players get up and get on with it rather than wait for the physio to come on has been a very welcome change
    * Had to laugh at (I think) Danny Murphy’s outrage at managers talking to teams during the hydration breaks, because “that’s what half time is for”. Wait till he finds out the ball doesn’t have laces in anymore
    * Numerous teams seem to have adopted the old PSG tactic of hoofing the kick off out of play as close to the corner flag as they can get. Tuchel was a fan whilst at Chelsea apparently (I don’t recall that)
    * Although I didn’t warm to The Rest Is Football as a podcast, the Netflix version has been an enjoyable watch. The screeching from Richards isn’t as overwhelming and they’ve had some reasonable guests in Joe Cole and Lampard Jnr. Not sure Maguire has a future as a pundit but who knows. Interesting revelation was that Tuchel organized a meeting with Lineker and Rooney to discuss tactics.
    * Predictable sneering from The Telegraph at the BBC decision to broadcast from Salford – dubbing it “working from home”, and contrasting it with ITV’s set up in Brooklyn. Naturally they couldn’t admit the Netflix studio in Times Square wins hands down, or that they have the only Golden Boot winner
    * Can’t fathom why the highlights packages on both ITV and BBC are only 8 minutes (or the complete game). An hour long package would be ideal.
    * Why don’t they stop the clock during the hydration breaks?

    • I’m quite sure the rightwing press who complain about the Salford set-up would complain just as much about ‘wasting license payers’ money’ if a crew had been sent out to the States.

      • Yes indeed. I saw an interview with, I believe, the Beeb’s head of sport, who said he knew he couldn’t win: having the usual broadcast set-up over there would cost, in his estimation, many hundreds of thousands, if not well over a million pounds.

        If he did that, certain sections of the press would condemn him for wasting licence fee money. When he doesn’t do it, the same press says it’s a poor show compared to ITV’s. Having seen both, I think the BBC’s (compromise) arrangement works very well. If the money saved goes instead towards some high-quality drama, then I say well done, Mr Head of Sport.

  22. I really enjoyed the England v Croatia game. Lots of goals – some of them exceptional (the long pass from Kane that led to the Bellingham goal – oh my!). Croatia played well but England played better and I found myself enjoying it rather than getting stressed.

      • Difficult to feel much sympathy for Qatar. A country which usually never gives citizenship to foreigners. And certainly not those South Asian people who build everything for them ( and died in large numbers in the run up to the last World Cup. They have, however, dished put passports to about half of their football team, having recruited them from across the globe. Even the English Rughy Football Union would be embarrassed

  25. I like Tuchel but why he brought Stones who has barely kicked a ball rather than Maguire who has been solid in defence and very handy in set pieces and has played all session is a mystery to me.

  28. Scotland Morocco was the worst match I’ve seen all tournament. As soon as often Scotland only seemed to remember that the aim of the game is to score goals 15 minutes from the end.

  29. Just watched an episode of TwentyTwenty-Six, in which the indomitable bullshitter Ian Fletcher applies his talents to the World Cup. Not sure I can cope with yet another 6 episodes of cringe, but it’s pretty sharp so far.

    • Well they were given top seedings in their groups so those groups are weaker and with 32 out of 48 teams qualifying I suppose it was expected. Let’s see if any make the Q finals.

  37. Anyone watched The Rest Is Football on Netflix with Gary Lineker et al?

    Over long per episode I think and Gary seems to have to say at least one ‘Fuck Off’ per episode even if it is in appropriate/not relevant to the conversation..

    30 minutes per episode and it would work.

    • I never got on with the podcast, but these Netflix versions have been entertaining, with a pretty good selection of guests. I agree they could be shorter – watching Mr & Mrs Lampard play darts seemed to be a bit desperate, but otherwise they’ve been reasonable value, helped I think by not having to rely so much on Shearer and Richards.

  40. Ghana were terrific against us last night I thought. Bit negative maybe but what a masterclass in defending. If England had any real pretensions of being a genuinely good side though they would have found a way to unlock that defence.

    • Brazil’s first goal and the disallowed second goal were absolute master classes in the technically difficult defensive skill of ”oh screw this, here’s the ball, do whatever you want”. Both are future English internet memes. Those instances apart, whilst Scotland did not disgrace themselves in terms of effort, it was very much men against boys for the most part. Was McTominay even on the pitch?

      • To be honest, I’d rather after “giving it a proper go instead of playing the dullest football of any team in this World Cup”, Scotland finished bottom of the group with no points and a goal difference of minus 20 than stay up in the wee small hours and watch three games of mind-numbing, turgid shite.

    • Scotland seem to always find new ways to screw things up. I watched the build up and there was all this guarded optimism, and I just knew what would happen. Frankly, Scotland are simply a poor team with average players and not being managed particularly well. The irony is that in the past we would have seen most of the Scotland team in the English top tier, and now it is a fair number of the Brazil side.

      Oh, and Clarke was given a new four year contract just before the tournament started – brilliant planning!

  42. To be fair, they were in a tough group – one easy game then numbers 5 and 6 in the world to play!
    But not helped by keystone kops defending and a toothless attack, and their big players like MacTominay and McGinn were anonymous. Shame about the injury to Gilmour in the warm up game, maybe he could have made a difference but that’s how it goes unfortunately.
    Will be surprised if England get past the quarter final stage.

    • True, it was a tricky group and beating Brazil in particular was not a realistic prospect. But Morocco are not an intimidating team despite their high FIFA ranking. They are well organized and quick, but far from invincible and a draw against them should have been within Scotland’s capabilities. I don’t know what it is, Scotland have no current outstanding world class players and perhaps the historic legacies of Law, Dalglish and..errr..Souness weigh heavily, but the present team seem to doubt their own capabilities. Hence the errors.

      • McTominay can be considered a world class player or close to one. And Scotland have not been eliminated yet. They achieved 3rd place in a tough group as would be expected.

        • 3rd place, but only scoring one, deflected, goal and 3 poor performnces. They may scrape through, but they hardly deserve it. McTominay is a decent player, as is Robertson and McGinn, but hardly world class in my humble opinion. Would he even get into the England squad..?

            • No idea how one can claim they did well to claim third spot. Their football has been simply dreadful. It seems Clarke has no idea how get the players playing apart from “Let’s hope we keep a clean sheet and scramble a lucky goal at the other end”.
              Scotland do indeed lack world-class players (the best Mctominay could hope for in the England side would be a useful squad player.)

              • I said they achieved 3rd place as expected, I didn’t say they did well. At least they weren’t 4th. They were one of the weakest qualifiers and they reached their level and may still scrape through.

  43. Another reason to dislike this tournament: head to head results instead of GD to decide group places. So since Australia and Paraguay have both beaten Turkiye, Turkiye could beat USA 10-0 and still not go through. What nonsense.

    • Not sure I agree. I think there is no perfect way when teams are tied and head to head is perhaps more worthy than goal difference, made up by scoring lots of goals against the weakest team. And all teams wouldn’t necessarily be playing the weakest team in the same conditions.

      • The unintended consequence of the head to head business is shown by the situation in Group J. Algeria and Austria face each other knowing that they cannot be caught by Jordan in the unlikely event that they beat Argentina, because both teams have already beaten Jordan. The second place team in this group is likely to face Spain next, so it may suit both Algeria and Austria to lose but still go through in third place. If this actually happens, and we get a match in which both teams are trying to lose, it could be an interesting watch!

        • Isn’t it ironic, don’t you think?

          “The Disgrace of Gijon” in the 1982 tournament was when West Germany and Austria shared a cosy 1-1 draw – so that they both progressed at the direct expense of Algeria. And now here we are.

        • We can blame FIFA for expanding to 48 teams making all this 3rd place nonsense relevant. Infantino will take note and …

          a) Go back to 32 teams for next WC or
          b) Expand to 64 to make more money

          Answers on a postcard.

            • You could do it like the Champions League, where all of the teams are now in one league table, as opposed to 12 small groups. This way it’d be easy to work out which 32 teams would go through to the next round. It may involve more of a break between round 1 and the knockout games, I suppose.

              • That new method introduces drama for the final game, but it is actually not very fair as you only play a selection of teams. 36 teams in the league and you only play 8 times so I don’t think you could have that at a World Cup, would take months as well to play the whole competition. I think 16 groups of 3 makes more sense if there are 48 teams then top team in each group qualifies for last 16. However that wouldn’t be enough games for FIFA likely.

  44. I think the absolute highlight of the England game was the commentator’s dry observation about Carlos Queiroz’s comment about past defeats: “I was not defeated. In football, we never lose. We win or we learn.” As the commentator observed, “That’s some spin.”

  45. Dear god, how I hate this tournament. It exemplifies everything that’s Wrong with football right now. Money doesn’t talk , it swears.
    Trump, Infantino, hydration breaks, halftime in the final will last half an hour to let a tired old granny in her underwear sing something about losing her virginity. Dear god in heaven, what have you done ? (Dear God please let every other team currently below Scotland lose 7 nil in their next game so the Tartan Army can face up to the might of Germany and lose pluckily to a dubious 83rd minute penalty. And by the way, Dear God, make sure England get stuffed 2 nil in the next round by Uzbekistan (or somebody similar)).

    • I suspect this will open a can of worms, but why do Scotland fans wish ill of England? As an England fan I would have no problem seeing Scotland do well, and always root for them. Having said that, it is somewhat hilarious watching them implode every time…

      • Yes – in 1974 and 1978, when England didn’t qualify, our family certainly supported Scotland. When none of the home nations qualified in 1994, we followed Ireland. I’m not an outlier here – most of us did the same.

        As a lifelong Ipswich fan, I know I’m supposed to dislike Norwich – but I really don’t.
        If I come across people that completely *despise* another team and their supporters, I do think less of them. Just grow up, basically.

          • All I want from any World Cup is some entertainment, some good football, I’m not really bothered who supplies it. As a proud Welshman it’s rare that I get the chance to watch Wales fail miserably in a World Cup. I’m afraid it’s game over for my fellow Celts but if anyone is being honest that won’t be too much of a surprise. As for England, I hope they do well. I wish them no harm. They aren’t going to win it though…thankfully.

            • I am the same, hope England do OK, but if they win it we will hear about it for the next 60 years

              * I never want their rugby team to do well though

            • Celts should have more opportunities to enjoy World Cup glory.
              Cornwall should be a full member of FIFA.
              And Brittany.
              And the Isle of Man.
              And …erm … Asturias? Is that Celtic?

  48. World Cup bore talking to me during an England game:

    “Now…listen….I’m on multi accumulator which will make me a million if England draw and Ecuador keep a clean sheet against Germany AND Ghana concede no more than 2 goals against Croatia in the first half….” and so on for about 30 billion years.

    Talking about a bet is Ia bit like talking about dreams. Keep it short and snappy.

  51. One of those questions that occur to you when you’re watching a dull football match: when a player about to take a corner or a free kick holds either one or two arms up in the air, this presumably means two different things. What things? Near post or far post possibly, but the resulting kick never seems to give up its secrets.

    And if it’s an international language, which it seems to be, then the opposition will know what it means too. So what’s the point?

    • Top sides generally have set piece coaches. They work out set piece routines and then assign signals to them. The routines and signals change game to game (eg left arm up might mean near post corner one game, far post corner the next). Players are intensively drilled on them and will have them memorised as part of their prep. Set piece coaches will decide which routines they deploy in part based on opposition analysis.

      You don’t use the same signals for the same routines every game because otherwise the opposition would know what you’re about to do when the signal goes up.

      • That makes sense, kind of, given that it’s often hard to see what the plan might have been and that most corners are cleared anyway. Given the usual chaotic scrum in the box at corners I’d have thought it would occasionally be worth ditching the plan and just seeing what happens.

    • Netherlands and (West) Germany? That reminds me of the 1974 final. Who was the man in black, keeping order? Why, it was Jack Taylor, the no-nonsense butcher from Wolverhampton. Even though England hadn’t qualified for the 1974 final stages, we still had a representative in the final. Hurrah!
      I wanted Oranje to win. I always did.
      The first minute. Cruyff brought down the box. Penalty. Neeskens takes it. Scores.
      The Germans won in the end, though. They always seemed to, in those days at least.

      • That tournament was the reason why we purchased our first colour TV!
        A 14″ Sony Trinitron, it was.

        I remember the noise of the crowd – honking horns throughout. I also wanted the Dutch to win but it wasn’t to be.

    • I haven’t watched them all, but out of the games I’ve seen and the teams I’ve seen play, none have impressed me more than Morocco. Brilliant team, hope they go far!

  54. A majestic brace from Captain Kane powers England into the last 16. The opposition were left reeling after England’s ice-cool, big match temperament proved to be too much for the plucky Congolese.

    Watch out Mexico! With the Three Lions in this form, it’s going to be very hard to tame them!

  56. I’m going to claim the credit here. Unfortunately, I had to take my sister into hospital yesterday afternoon and didn’t get home until after 6pm. I had seen on a hospital waiting area screen early on that we were 0-1 down. By the time I’d eaten, I didn’t sit down until very late on in the game – I wasn’t really that keen to watch us huff and puff our way out of the tournament – but as soon as I did, Harry took the game by the scruff of the neck and delivered those two goals. As described by Barney Ronay in the Guardian, it was won by the Democratic Republic of Harry Kane.

    Suitably enthused about the footy, I watched most of the Belgium Senegal match, which had a very similar story arc. A magnificent game, where Belgium were essentially clueless and down and out and all Senegal had to do was defend decently for 10 minutes or so, but the game shifted as only football can with the first Belgian goal and there was an inevitability about the result from there. The Senegal reaction to the penalty was fairly disgraceful and did them no credit, but they can be such an amazing team to watch at times.

    • The last time I tried that tactic was when I decided to wait until after work to watch the England v Iceland game – confident that none of my kiwi colleagues would be interested in what appeared to be a straightforward game and not mention it. How wrong I was.

  58. Blimmin’ frick, now that’s entertainment! If you missed it, make a point of watching the second half of Portugal v Croatia.
    That’s the thing, though: I always say how much I like knock out football, but then I find myself living in a world where Croatia are out and Canada are still in the tournament..

  59. England’s hotel is apparently going to be treated to an all night fireworks display in an attempt to keep them awake. They must stay at the FIFA-approved hotel.

    A wonderful and pragmatic suggestion from Henry Winter was that in future tournaments both teams should be accommodated at the same hotel.

    • Poor old Djed Spence was getting his head chewed off by Tuchel last time out but Quansah repaid the manager’s faith with ANOTHER kamikaze tackle. Bums might not have been quite so squeaky for those last minutes if he’d not done that..
      It’s a pity for regular time keepers on this side of the world that so many of the best games have been on in the wee small hours..

      • Yes, the scheduling is very Oz-friendly, I must say. Although I did get up at 5:45 to discover that I’d done my adding up wrong and the England game wasn’t for another 4 hours (5 as it turned out). But the Brazil-Norway game was a more than acceptable substitute. England vs Norway is going to be quite a match.

  66. Best ever performance by an England football team? Can’t be far off.

    Twenty years ago, they were like the England cricket lot are now.
    Kane et al are a ‘team’.

      • Dai, you’ve excelled yourself.
        Germany reached the 2002 World Cup final! That result meant nothing.

        It gets better, Greece, who England scrambled past (a 2-2 draw) to clinch top spot in 2002, won the next Euros after beating Portugal on their own patch twice… England got knocked out by Portugal in the same competition.

        You do know it was ‘in’ Mexico, yeah? In front of Mexicans, 80,000 of them, not a qualifier, the ‘actual’ World Cup. A truly remarkable performance, it’s unlikely to bettered by anyone else in this tournament.

        • Thank you. Yes, certainly a good win against a fairly average side. The result I mentioned certainly did mean something at the time

          But we can apply things retroactively, if England slump against Norway (unlikely) then this tournament is a failure and the media will destroy them. If they win the World Cup then a last 16 performance on the way will have more weight. Generally I would think that if they were to play and beat France in the World Cup final it will be a greater achievement

          • I actually think that Mexico are a pretty decent team who have played very well so far. I can probably think of 2 or 3 other teams in this World Cup only that could play 40 mins plus, a man down, against Mexico at the Azteca and get a result.

            I agree that beating France (or Spain) in the final would be a greater achievement. But until then….

  68. Even if the red card was dubious there is no appeal system in the World Cup. If you get one you miss the next game, Trump’s intervention is indeed wholly inappropriate and FIFA falling on their knees in front of him (again) makes a mockery of the competition rules

  74. I thought Belgium were awful v. Senegal and supremely lucky to get through.
    If you’d told me I’d me supporting them to the hilt tonight, I’d have gone ‘Nah!’

    I’d have been wrong… ‘Please, Belgium, please, please, please win, I beg of you.’

  76. Congratulations to Donald Trump for the greatest pre-match team talk in the history of the World Cup. Belgium came out flying!

    Further congratulations to the ex-Tottenham manager for the worst clothes ever worn at a World Cup. A fine effort considering that includes the dire 1980s.

  77. Until the Donald and Gianni shitshow I would have wanted the US to win – a decent team punching above their weight, Poch in charge, home World Cup, Belgium have been rubbish etc etc. As it was I was cheering every Belgium goal (unfair on the players and especially poor Balogun, but there we are). it couldn’t have been a better result, and the US were just awful, contriving to make Belgium look better than they actually are.

  78. Everything I hate about the abomination that is VAR was encapsulated in the disallowing of Egypt’s brilliant, brilliant probably (?) match-winning goal. Yes, if you spend time pouring over camera angles it does look as though there was a foul in the build-up. But the referee didn’t see it and neither did 98.2% of the people watching. There followed a piece of individual football magic resulting in one of the finest “goals” you will ever see. Before the abomination that is VAR we would have all sat back and said “Wow!” Argentina still might have fought back but because of the abomination that is VAR we will never know.

        • The foul enabled Egypt to proceed with the set of passes that led to the goal in one continuous phase of play. Once VAR was invoked there was no option but to revoke the goal. The problem is that such decisions are not consistent and why did it go to VAR? Because Messi took it up. Understandable that Egypt got upset but they then get carried with conspiracy theories involving FIFA and Argentina. In the good old days before VAR, players could hack someone down and maybe the ref would miss it and that would be clearly wrong. More injustices then no doubt.

          • We’ve been through this before and opinions won’t be changed but back then refs made mistakes and if it was against our team we felt bad. Then next week it went our way and we felt good.
            I can accept VAR intervening, as I think it was originally intended, re clear & obvious errors (Lampard’s “goal” against Germany comes to mind) but, for instance, looking back so early in the move (as instigated by Messi) to then negate superb football skill is just plain Wrong

            • There are two aspects that are wrong about the decision. The first is that it appears to have been instigated by players requesting VAR review things. That is not in the application of the laws. It puts pressure on the VAR to review it. Not acceptable. I’d like any VAR decision that has been requested to automatically be rejected on a point of principle.

              The second is the remoteness. Is it clear that the goal has been scored as a result of the foul? I think not. The tussle where one boot stood on another was a pretty normal tussle. If I had a fouls for every time I had my foot stood on in a football match, we may still be playing. So it’s not an especially clear foul and the ball could still have been won by the Egyptian played if his had landed on the turf rather than the oppositions foot. And then, there was a far bit of time and a fair bit of skill required to move the ball into a goalscoring opportunity.

              The decision is a poor one and one that will be inconsistent with the decisions made in the same circumstances most of the times.

  82. The final is on Sunday 19th July – which will probably be Starmer’s last day as PM.
    Monday 20th is the handover to the King. If England go all the way, I can certainly imagine both of them being a bit “dusty”.

    • The scenario Farage would hate the most is no. 1, he’s a rugger bugger (actually, I doubt he knows anything about that either).

      He’d pretend to be happy, but would know that it would give the Labour Government a massive bounce… and the country, and he hates this country.

  86. I like Belgium’s pale blue away strip, inspired by René Magritte.
    Why can’t England have an away strip inspired by Turner’s “The Fighting Temeraire”?

  87. The feed that we are getting in NZ is really good. No Andy Gray/Richard Keys – no pundits before and after – just the game. That’s all well and good but the thing I do miss though is the way that BBC live football productions pick up on something during boring games – I don’t know if they still do this. It could be someone in the crowd, or a particularly intriguing story about someone on the pitch. It’s what made Brucey so good on the Generation Game – he’d find something amusing about a contestant’s life and make something into entertainment. Also Groucho Marx in You Bet Your Life.

    It adds to the story of the game. Let’s say it’s a bit of a dull period and a prima donna player has a remarkable haircut. The commentator’s thoughts on this would lead to one of the cameras following that player in particular for about 30 seconds and then you may learn that he has set up a school for disadvantaged children in his home town. That kind of thing.

  89. My daughter wanted to watch the England Norway game. Turns out It’s only available on pay to view Deutsche Telekom Magenta tv. Cue the trusty VPN. Not via iplayer, nor ITV, not even RTE – all can spot VPN.

    So, thank you to SBS in Australia for opening the door. (And 5 Live commentary, of course, as I don’t speak Strine).

  94. I feared the worse ahead of the game when memes started doing the rounds again celebrating the diversity and varied origins of the England players. Well intentioned, but tempting fate ahead of a game against Norway, particularly given England’s record against similarly small, homogenous national teams. When the memes first did the rounds in 2016 and 2018. It all went quiet after defeats to Iceland and Croatia. Hopefully that hex has permanently been shattered and we won’t come a cropper against the similarly homogenous, ( if rather more populous) Argentina.

    • The final score was probably a fair enough reflection of the match, nut England were very, very luck at points. Bu then didn’t Napoleon say he would rather have a lucky general than a great one? A win is a win.

  96. Fourth semi-final in five tournaments.

    It’s the first time I’ve diligently put all the scores down on a wallchart. Usually, it gets forgotten after about the fifth or sixth game.
    Hmm, maybe I should have always done it, it seems to be working.

    The great thing about this England squad is that the hero of the hour may not have even kicked a ball yet.

    • It’s certainly an achievement. On the other hand, one might argue that international football is comparatively weak nowadays. When I was young, I doubt there were any club sides that could compete with the classic national sides , e.g. Brazil in 1970 or West Germany or Holland in 1974. Nowadays, there are few top national sides, with the exception of France, that I think could compete with the very best European club sides.

  97. Meanwhile, if no one else is going to do so, I feel duty bound to say “Harold Hardrada, Morten Harket, King Haakon, Jo Nesbo, Roald Admundsen, Henrik Ibsen, Anni-Frid Lyngstad, Edward Munch, Thor Hyerdahl, Roald Dahl (sort of), Royksopp, Ole Gunnar Solsjaer, Edward Grieg. . Your boys took a helluva beating etc

    • The thing about exhuming that reference (and nice one, by the way) is it’s actually a compliment: when that legendary commentary was uttered it was precisely because it was outrageous that little Norway could even get a one off result against the mighty England. And now Norway are rolling all the way to the World Cup quarter finals off the back of unbeaten qualification and giving an England team, going through its most sustained period of success for decades, quite a contest..

      • I expect London will have to make do with a 6 ft plastic tree from B&Q this year.
        Actually, I see that Norweigians took it all in good humour with thousands ‘rowing’ with big smiles on their face in Oslo after full time. Let’s hope that English fans, some of whom had form back in the day when it came to bad behaviour after a defeat, follow the Norweigian and not the Moroccan example, if it all goes tits up on Wednesday.

  103. Fellow Engerland supporting Afterworders….what are we thinking this evening?

    I’m very confident we will win. I’m never confident my domestic team will win so it’s a strange feeling. Mind you, a get over an international defeat pretty quickly.

  108. Thoroughly deserved victory. Apart from the goal, England offered very little in attack. Argentina created 5 or 6 big chances. Condolences to the English supporters here

    • I thought that. In all the years of football and cricket matches around the world, I can’t ever remember him looking that reflective.
      He’d never looked more like ‘one of the people’.

    • Tactically stupid. Trying to defend a single goal lead with that amount of the game still to play is never a good idea especially against a team so well equipped to score against you. Even a two goal lead can be problematic but England failed to press home their advantage mostly due to Argentina stopping their shithousery and focusing on playing football instead. Having said that England did well to get to a semi but even if they had been fortunate enough to win it Spain would have handed them their collective arses on a plate in the Final.

      • They looked knackered, and I don’t think Rice was remotely fit to begin with. Kane also didn’t seem to be at the races yesterday. Messi was good, close to 40 but 2 assists

          • I thought Argentina were very effective at nullifying the threat of Kane and Bellingham. The same couldn’t be said about England when it came to Messi or as it transpired any Argentinian player. England were plain and simply outplayed by a much more focused, determined and better team. They didn’t lose because of some hoodoo or because they were more tired or had the wrong mentality they were just not as good as Argentina either on the pitch or in the dugout.

            • I’ve never subscribed to the notion that the fix was in for Argentina, but when you look at the slo-mo fouls that are appearing all over the place, you can’t help wondering. That sucker punch to the back of Anderson’s head was a red card, for sure.

              • It’s Argentina. They are past masters of shithousery, the English players should have been prepared for it. With a final at stake Argentina are going to use every one of the dark arts to disrupt the game and that’s exactly what they did until England scored then they put the bulk of that to one side and concentrated on playing football and beating England.
                I’ll say it again when push came to shove Argentina were simply a better football team.

                • Most teams at the business end of these tournaments want to own the ball. Tuchel’s plan was a ball-winning midfield, pacy wingers and relying on two match winners to produce something. Maybe he thought this was playing to the strengths of English football (you can go back all the way to at least Glenn Hoddle to the last English manager who wanted to prioritise possession). And it might have worked – Argentina’s weaknesses were that they had a slow, aging squad without much width. But such was England’s disinclination to manage their lead by retaining possession that they played into Argentina’s strengths – that if you grant them time and space they use the ball much better than England. Another thing Southgate got hammered for was poor use of substitutes, but Tuchel was very much second best here too..

      • Tactically stupid and substitutions that didn’t help but it’s a familiar tendency for England to retreat in this way and hope to cling on. We’ve seen it many times over the years with different regimes. Something in their psyche. They’re no Italy (old school).

  113. Sweet suffering Christ!!!

    Have you seen this? If you don’t have a Twitter account then think yourself lucky, if you do and you’re still feeling down about the game this will make you want the entire England football establishment razed to the ground to make sure that it never, ever happens again. I lasted 20 seconds and I’m not even English. I’m not one to complain as you all know, but really, I mean, come on, for fuxxake … You have been warned.

    https://x.com/CTNI88/status/2077431868769599693?s=20

  114. Here’s a thought to make every sensible England supporter feel better. If England had won the thing, the presentation would have been made by Trump. The footage would have been replayed for ever and ever – spoiling one of the greatest moments in English football.

    Even better, he may have to present the trophy to Spain. He hates Spain.

    • He’d like Argentina to win, their president being a fellow wacko, far right, populist. He can ask Infantino to make it happen for his friend. Somehow this satirical comment seems all too believable.

    • He’s quite likely relieved that no one is now likely to be chanting full throated in English how much of an alleged PDF or general Bertie Blunt the world considers him to be.

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