I’ve been musing on how many bands frittered their early promise by becoming more bloated as a live entity as time went by. Take most guitars/bass/drums outfit, and by the time they’re on their third album, their live presence has incorporated a keyboard player, an extra guitarist, backing singers… you name it.
Take Guns’n’Roses. Whether you like their music or not, it’s fairly undeniable that their early impact was due to their uncompromising, punky take on hard rock. Two guitars, bass, drums and a singer with a (ahem) unique delievery. By the time they’d put out TWO sprawling albums on the same day in 1992, they were touring with a keyboard player, backing singers and a four-piece horn section. Fleetwood Mac (Rumours and onward) toured with five members in 1977. When I saw them they had an extra keyboard player, an extra guitarist and three backing singers. Ditto the Eagles. Did it make life easier for the main men and women? Of course. Did it make them sound any better? That’s debatable.
Some acts play with a USP of their lineup, eg current media pincushions Royal Blood. Some clearly have a bit of ‘help’ from backing tracks or triggered samples (yoo-hoo, U2!) But here’s the thing. Have any major act actually SHRUNK their onstage presence after initial success with a certain lineup? Since Dave Dee passed on, do two of his chums go out acoustically as Dozy and Mick? Are Earth, Wind and Fire a tight four-piece with a lonely trumpet player and a disdain for backing vocals? Over to you.
Sparks were a five piece band when they had their first wave of success in 1974. When they had their second wave in 1979, it was just Russell singing and Ron standing fairly motionless behind a keyboard, a look that inspired quite a few acts in the 80s.
(This 5 year gap meant that there are two groups of people who can remember saying “Did you see the band last night with the guy who looked like Hitler on keyboards?” at school the day after Top of the Pops. )
I think a lot of Soul and Disco acts scaled down in the 80s. Cameo are a good example. Pretty sure they didn’t start off as a three piece.
Well… the Mahavishnu Orchestra began as a five-piece, became an 11-piece, then a 9-piece, then (from August-November 1975) a 4-piece. John had even shrunk his guitar by that point – reverting to a single-neck Les Paul when his twin-neck Rex Bogue fell off a shelf backstage in June 1975 and met its doom.
There are alas no professional recordings of the last-gasp ‘Vish, but here’s a soundboard from their final show.
I understand the Oyster Band have shrunk to a three or four piece in recent times because the sums weren’t working.
Not quite, exactly. The core residual trio of Jones, Telfer and Prosser have reprised the 3 Oysters 3 chat and music tour this summer, continuing from when they last did similar in 2018 or 9. This is as well as the current 6 piece, the size expanding from 5 to 6 when Chopper left, he needing to be replaced by a bassist and a cellist. There has been a bit of revolving door of drummers, it is true, and, for a recent tour, when Adrian Oxaal was busy with his “other band” (James), Chopper returned and took his place for a German tour.
I let you know how many are present at Shrewsbury over the August BH w/e……
Someone is called ‘Chopper’…?
While I in not entirely convinced by your argument, I can think of several bands that stuck with their original lineup. Did the Ramones ever add a horn section live*?
Bands that have downsized? Sparks is an obvious example. After the initial success, they they went back to the States with a similar lineup but then, before the success of the late 70s and beyond, were a three piece.
I see, in the hour or took to write this, I’m not the first to suggest Sparks!
*That’s actually a genuine question.
The correct answer, as always, is Van der Graaf Generator. Started as a five piece, shrunk to a four piece during their ‘imperial’ phase, now touring as a three piece – and sounding as good as ever!
My Life Story, starting out as an ensemble of 12, with 6 special guests on Mornington Crescent had reduced down to a four piece by 2019s World Citizen album. See also XTC, Partridge, Moulding, Andrews & Chambers to Partridge & Moulding. Economics innit!
Prefab Sprout, XTC. Two bands that have done a cheshire cat.
Onstage though? See OP…
Pardon?
Steely Dan went from the line-up that recorded Can’t Buy A Thrill – Fagen/Becker/Dias/Baxter/Hodder/Palmer – to Fagen/Becker/Dias/Baxter/Hodder plus several session musicians for Countdown to Ecstacy and Pretzel Logic. When they played live, they added Michael McDonald and Jeff Porcaro and others. By Katy Lied, it was Fagen/Becker, with Dias on one track.
Fairport are a drummerless 4 piece at present, unless Dave Mattacks is available, to deputise for the drummer he was replaced by about 20 years ago.
Fairport were reduced to a two piece in the early seventies,(though admittedly they never played live).
There were the three piece shows in the States when Peggy was, um, unwell.
And the Three Desperate Mortgages in the seventies before Simon rejoined.
I would question whether the Dan were actually a “band”, by the time they had shrunk to the studio duo…
I suppose if Blancmange, Yazoo, The Assembly & Erasure could be called bands then yes, The Dan were a band, but neither Blancmange or Steely Dan ever performed or indeed recorded as a 2-piece.
Your second point seems to have negated your first: “neither Blancmange or Steely Dan ever performed or indeed recorded as a 2-piece.”. QED.
Show of Hands are “back”, intermittently, to a 3 piece, now Miranda Sykes is back from maternity leave, ahead their farewell live tour. They started as a duo,, became 3, on and off with her, plus a very brief period as a four piece, with a percussionist.
Prince, in his latter-day live iterations…from full band with horn section etc on late 2000s tours, to lean and mean 4-piece rawk machine with 3rd-Eye Girl 2013-2015, then just himself on the fateful Piano & A Microphone Tour 2016. 😪
The Beastie Boys were a four piece right before they went stellar. Sacked Kate Schellenbach, although they did apologise for it later.
You see a bit more of this stuff in Hip Hop, on account of the lack of instruments. Same too with Pop music – off the top of my head Take That, Westlife, Eternal, the Spice Girls, the Supremes, One Direction and Destiny’s Child all lost at least one member and pressed ahead regardless.
Lambchop seemed to have loads of members at one point but a lot fewer now. Although apart from Kurt it’s not really clear who’s in the band who isn’t. I don’t think I am, for example, but I can’t be 100% sure. No one can.
19 people played on Is A Woman. The NME review accurately said: “Although at least half a dozen of them play guitars, the sound they collectively make is roughly equal to one gently creaking floorboard.”
I saw them at the Old Fruitmarket in Glasgow when they had about 6 guitarists in the band. A friend of mine was part of the sound team and he told me “In 15 years of doing sound, I have NEVER had to ask a guitar player to turn their amp up. Every guitarist had their amp set about 1 and a half – it took a while to get the vibe and trust them that they were all effectively whispering their parts, and that’s what was going to make it work”.
It was all pretty hushed – interesting, but they seemed to want the audience to be leaning forward to pick up every nuance.
The Blue Aeroplanes. In their 90s pomp, there coul dbe in excess of five guitarists onstage.
Kasabian ‘lost’ one of their frontmen, and carried on (being shit).
Interestingly they remained just as shit, not shitter
“Poundland Primal Scream”, as a wonderfully snarky person nailed them
Tears For Fears were credited as a four piece on their first two albums. Roland and Curt plus Ian Stanley on keyboards and Manny Elias on drums.
Down to Roland and Curt on Seeds of Love and Roland only after that although they are back to a duo again now
Stiff Little Fingers went down to 3 for one album when Henry Cluney left. It didn’t work so within a year it was back to 4
And Then There Were Three.
And Then There Were Three. Though it would be distinctly unfashionable to suggest that they got better as a result.
We can prove with equations that they didn’t get better…
Maybe not better, but Trick Of The Tail and Duke are up there with their best
I think that ‘Trick’ is the best Genesis record; certainly my favourite, followed by Wind & Wuthering, and The Lamb. Genesis without Gabriel, but with Steve Hackett is fine, but they lost me when Steve left.
Same here.
Yebbut, Trick… had four band members, not three.
The Rolling Stones started as a 6-piece, ditched the piano player for being too old/ugly but kept him on the payroll as roadie/session player. Then there were 5.
Replaced Brian Jones with Mick Taylor. Still 5 in the band. Replaced Mick Taylor with Ron Wood but only as an employee for several years before making him a full member. 4 members, then 5 again. Bill Wyman left and was replaced by an employee. Down to 4 again. Charlie died and he’s been replaced by another employee. Just 3 actual band members now, plus numerous employees for both live and, presumably, future studio work.
“Yes”, down to one plus ringers – good ones for a change, but ringers, all the same. As heritage bands are brands, you gotta keep the name, even if it isn’t. If Mick or Keef dies, will either still tour as the Stones? Roger Daltrey or Pete Townshend as “The Who”?
Dr Feelgood are still doing the rounds
Scritti Politti.
I’ve never listened to the very early stuff, but by Songs to Remember, there was a line-up. By the next, Cupid & Psyche, they were Green plus new bods Gamson and Maher. Same for Provision? Anomie and Black Bread were just Green, really.
Similar vintage: the Thompson Twins.
First album: six-piece. Second album: seven + Thomas Dobly. Third album: three, er, twins.
I know this thread is about gigging acts, but it puts me in mind of Texas who, at one point seemed to be a band, but for the last 30 years all their records have only had one person on the cover..
Spitteri and McElhone get nearly all the songwriting royalties, other members are pretty much hired help.
Dunno if this counts: Principal Edwards Magic Theatre (loads of hippy types with the majority not doing/contributing much) became much smaller and tighter (only six members?) but also shortened their name to Principal Edwards. Saw them a couple of times on the uni circuit in the mid 1970s, the first time supporting the wonderful Kevin Ayers. They were ok (ish).
Ok, I’ve been away from the thread, so can I point you to the ‘onstage presence’ bit of my theory. So Genesis, for example, didn’t get smaller, they added two hired hands. Prefab Sprout and XTC don’t really count as there wasn’t really a ‘onstage’ at all after a bit.
johnw, it’s all about downsizing from an original live lineup, not staying as is, otherwise there would be loads, and the Ramones was the band I thought of!
I’m not talking about official band members (though I’ve ranted about that in the past too), but people who prop them up onstage. So: Sparks may be two people officially but how many people do they tour with? Likewise the Stones (who I saw onstage in 1990 with 11 folks onstage).
VDGG, PEMT, that’s what I’m talking about.
Huzzah!
The longest Sparks live lineup is a three piece. Russell – “just” singing, Tammy Glover – percussion, Ron – everything else…. Although Russell would have had a hand in those prerecorded loops etc!
As above, I saw My Life Story back in the day as a twelve piece with brass and strings and at Hebden Bridge a few years ago as a four piece.
Beatles went from 4 to 5 for their last live performance! (Billy Preston added)
and Wings contracted and expanded over the years…
Isn’t that how they fly?
The Gratterfolk Molehill Fettlers had innumerable members (basically anyone that was in the same room). They only played one live gig it was solo as everyone else had drifted away.
It’s not a huge downsizing in terms of actual numbers, but there’s some great footage of Prefab Sprout at a festival playing as a three piece. There are more MIDIs and extra pick ups on that guitar than you could shake a Roland Jupiter-4 at, mind.
What do you mean about Royal Blood having a USP of their line-up?
Ok, not a unique selling point, but being bass and drums only is pretty niche, and very much their ‘thing’. I’d contend if they’d made exactly the same noise as a three-piece when they started out, the world would have taken a little longer to beat a path to their door.
Sorry to do this dude, but although they’re a two-piece, they have additional members when playing live.
That’s me telt. But the point, surely, is: did they have the extra players when they started out?
I saw them a couple of times years ago (both times I was there to see someone else) and they were a two-piece then.
I always thought Echo And The Bunnymen squandered their early lean post punk tightness and styling when Mac decided he couldn’t be arsed to play guitar any more. They got an ever lengthening line of auxiliary hired hands in to take over. The occasional percussionist and string players only added to the self importance. They were at their best when they were a proper band but of course Pete DeFreitas’ tragic early death put paid to that.
I saw them live about four years ago and it was Mac, Will and four bunnyblokes.
Yes, they’re a duo now, in essence. They occasionally tour an orchestral version of Ocean Rain, which makes sense: it’s a largely orchestral album.
I can’t remember whose epigram it was but it was along the lines of “First you get a couple of backing singers, then a horn section and the next thing you know you’re being produced by Dave Stewart…”
That’s such a good point, Skirky.
I remember seeing Tina Turner in concert on VH1 back in the 90s, and I’m sure she had about 25 people on stage with her.
In the 80s/90s, singers of a certain vintage (see also Rod Stewart) always had a berk in a beret and leather waistcoat fellating a saxophone with the sort of erotic determination that would make Lord Byron blush.
It’s amusing when the backing singers aren’t required for certain songs, and they just do ‘movement’.
I watched Jessie Ware, who has a good set of pipes, on Later… recently and she had four – yes, four – backing vocalists. Why?
Eels started as a trio (live anyway: it was always E’s project) then gradually expanded over the years until they were playing with a string section before scaling it back for a tour as a duo with just E and The Chet, and they were brilliant.