The Dylan thread got me thinking about who The Massive consider to be the best songwriter of the last 150 years. Me I reckon it`s Dylan, followed by, well I`m undecided. So I`m going to ask you all to nominate your top 5 songwriters and if you wish explain why. I`ll do mine later.
I will give this until midnight Sunday then take a few days to collate a list, yes another list, so list haters do not need to look any further. Although I hope you do.
Hopefully, attached is a fine song sung by a fine singer and written by a fine songwriter.
If this has been already done in recent memory apologies.
Fin59 says
Um
Twang says
In no particular order…
Richard Thompson
Neil Young
Bob Dylan
Jackson Browne
Ian Anderson
Twang says
As the rules have changed Jackson slips out of the top 5, replaced by Becker and Fagen.
Bingo Little says
Before anyone votes, I’d just like to invite you to take a moment to feast your collective eyes on this:
I’m not saying that the above *requires* everyone to immediately install Fred Durst as their personal number one, but…. it doesn’t half make you think, does it?
dai says
Chuck Berry
Buddy Holly
John Lennon
Ray Davies
Bob Dylan
dai says
Oh Macca too and Van . Oh dear.
Here’s a pretty solid Canadian 5
Neil Young (ON)
Joni Mitchell (AB)
Robbie Robertson (ON)
Leonard Cohen (QC)
Ron Sexsmith (ON)
retropath2 says
Leven, J
Dylan, B
Young, N
Costello, E
Morrison, V
I am afraid it is probably only the last 50 years as I know not enough to include
Porter, C, Novello, I , etc etc and all the pre-wars greats
Baron Harkonnen says
I said 150years just in case, I think you will know what I mean.
Bingo Little says
Bob Dylan is quite clearly number one
Sam Cooke
Kurt Cobain
Ian Mackaye
The RZA
Nods to Morrissey/Marr, Bob Marley, Scott Walker, Mark Mulcahy, Joe Strummer, Bruce Springsteen, Evan Dando, Marc Bolan, Paul Simon.
RubyBlue says
Joni Mitchell
Nick Drake
Bob Dylan
Paul Simon
Bruce Springsteen- not a big fan by any means, but I recognise his merit. 🙂
Neil Young runner-up (see Springsteen comments). Oh and Elvis Costello.
Twang says
Bruce and Joni would be my 6 and 7.
Jim Cain says
Charli XCX
Clive says
Bob Dylan
Joni Mitchell
Buddy Holly
David Bowie
Brian Wilson
Zanti Misfit says
So hang on? Is the OP suggesting Robert Wyatt, Elvis Costello or Clive Langer?
and what about songwriting partnerships?
Irving Berlin
Burt Bacharach
Stevie Wonder
Andy Partridge
Carole King
Baron Harkonnen says
Songwriter partnerships are OK.
Zanti Misfit says
I forgot to add, “it will probably a different five tomorrow” and the usual cheat, “nods to/ honorary mentions”
ruff-diamond says
Cole Porter
George Gershwin
Brian Wilson
Paul Weller
Paul McCartney (because I like more of the songs he wrote after the Beatles than I do John Lennon’s)
ruff-diamond says
Cole Porter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3ltenlQkOk
George Gershwin:
RubyBlue says
Oh, Weller, yes. Number 8, then.
Chimney Singing Crow says
I like Dylan more as a performer than a writer – I base this largely on the fact that I haven’t heard many covers of his that I like…
Ray Davies
Prince
Lennon/ McCartney
Noel G
Randy Newman
Max Martin
Baron Harkonnen says
Have you heard Bob in concert in recent years?, I am a huge fan of the man, well 6foot 2, but you get my drift, back to Zimmie. I think for the last 15 years Bobs live vocal performance has declined greatly. OOAA.
Fin59 says
Trad. and Anon. must be in with a fair shout
madfox says
They usually work in collaboration with Arr.by, though.
Fin59 says
and Page/Plant or Jagger/Richards
Tiggerlion says
Hahahaha!
madfox says
You people are disappointing me. The man said the last 150 years. Show a bit more imagination. You are shitting me with Paul Weller, right? I love the guy’s music, but I am surprised he might be considered top five in a list of best songwriters over that period. Personal favourite, maybe, but BEST? In objective terms? At a stretch, he might make top 20 of the last fifty years. A big stretch.
Just my opinion, etc.
I’m going for – INPO – Dylan, Porter, McCartney, Bacharach & David, and Sondheim.
Kid Dynamite says
I can’t believe we’ve got this far down the thread and no one’s mentioned the bloke out of Dumpy’s Rusty Nuts.
davebigpicture says
Holland Dozier Holland
George & Ira Gershwin
Lennon & McCartney
Goffinn & King
Shane MacGowan
RubyBlue says
i think the problem is the timescale. There are dozens and dozens of brilliant songwriters of the last 150 years; it’s almost impossible to consider seriously unless you have a couple of days spare.
Not a criticism of the OP- just a recognition of the limits of human memory, scope of focus, concentration span etc.
And add in to that the usual idiosyncrasies of what each of us thinks ‘best’ means….
Baron Harkonnen says
They only have to be what you consider to be the best Ruby, this isn`t a scientific experiment just an exercise for us to put forward who we consider to be the best or more important the one`s who bring us more joy. Maybe I should have stated this in the OP. Someone has put forward Paul Weller and this was disagreed with, why? If you consider anyone to be better or bring more enjoyment, no matter who it is you list them.
I consider Dylan to be the best, not because he really might be but because I just think he is and I love his music.
RubyBlue says
🙂 I think it’s a good exercise. It really makes you think about what ‘best’ means.
So I totally understand that Cole Porter and Gershwin should be there but I don’t own or listen to much of their work apart from in passing (for shame) so I’d feel like a fraud including them.
Oh it’s just a difficult question aaaaargh *goes to ‘5 best shits’ thread*
Results will be fun (songwriters, not shits).
MC Escher says
Good idea, Rubes. It could do with a bit of pepping up, it’s dying on its arse at the moment.
bengwy says
John Darnielle
Lou Reed
Holland, Dozier and Holland
Nigel Blackwell
and Dylan.
SteveT says
Elvis Costello
Paul Simon
Tom Russell
Leonard Cohen
Ray Davies
5 is nowhere near enough – and there are writers who may have written one song that I would perhaps put in a list of my favourites but may have not done anything else. For example Evening over Rooftops by Edgar Broughton is one of my favourite ever songs but I wouldn’t put anything else by them in that category even though I love the band. Same goes for Gnarls Barkely (C.Lo Green?) – Crazy is a brilliant song but don’t rate much else by him.
Baron Harkonnen says
I think we must consider this for more than just one song Steve.
Baron Harkonnen says
Steve – No Jackie Leven? WTF
Dodger Lane says
Right now, I’d go for:-
Shane MacGowan
Chuck Berry
Paul Simon
Ray Davies
Morrissey
and an honourable mention for Kirsty Macoll.
Jackthebiscuit says
In no particular order.
Lennon & McCartney (Can I have them as individuals as well?)
Bruce Springsteen
Paul Simon
David Bowie
Noddy Holder & Jimmy lea (& yes, I am being serious)
I am only picking songwriters of the last 50 years because that is all I know & listen to, & from there I am unashamedly picking those that I have enjoyed the most.
Mentioned in dispatches
Stevie Wonder
Carol King
Led Zeppelin (Mainly Robert Plant & Jimmy Page, but they all chipped in now & then)
Burt Bacharach
Bob Dylan
Buddy Holly.
Chimney Singing Crow says
Oh yeah, I went a couple of years ago. I didn’t mean a live performer, I mean his performance on record. I think Sub Homesick Blues is a fantastic record with great lyrics but it’s not got much a tune. Same as the Stones – they have written some great songs, no argument – but what I really love is the sound.
Gary says
My personal favourites would be Roger Waters and David Sylvian. But I wouldn’t say either of them as, despite the former’s massive international commercial success, I think my connection with them is too personal. From a slightly more objective perspective, I’d choose:
1. Lennon & McCartney – I have little time for them, due perhaps to their ubiquity, but their songs are such an important part of the whole modern world’s culture it’d be ridiculous to ignore them.
2. David Bowie – so many duff album tracks, but so many incredible singles. More than anyone else.
3. Paul Simon – more as a lyricist than a songwriter (which is not to deny that he is an amazing songwriter).
4. Paul Weller – Not quite up to Bowie’s standard, but similarly he has many duff album tracks to his name, but a string of classic singles that knocks some of those mentioned in above posts for six.
5. I truly can’t think of a fifth. I might have to say Roger Waters after all. His songs, mostly explorations of his own very personal inner and outer world, have a scope and depth to them that I think no one else really equals.
I’ve long resigned myself to the idea that Dylan must be a great songwriter but I’m too blinkered to see it. Too many people whose opinions I respect hold him in such high regard. (Just don’t play him when I come round for dinner, if you don’t mind.)
niallb says
The answer, of course, is Jimmy Webb.
JustB says
Goffin/King
Paul McCartney
Greenwich/Barry/Spector
Black Francis
The RZA
JustB says
Dammit, forgot Buck/Mills/Berry/Stipe.
JustB says
Double dammit. Forgot Joni Mitchell.
Rigid Digit says
Lennon & McCartney
Paul Weller
Noel Gallagher
Strummer & Jones
Nigel Blackwell
Rigid Digit says
and if I had 5 more:
Ray Davies
Jagger & Richard
Pete Townshend
Elvis Costello
Bob Dylan
and I’ve still left out:
Holder & Lea
Paul Heaton
and Jake Burns (because no-one else would mention him otherwise)
davebigpicture says
Heaton is a good call
duco01 says
Lennon/McCartney
Ray Davies
Costello
Joni Mitchell
Leonard Cohen
Hmmm I seem to have posted the most conservative, predictable list possible.
I like lots of obscure songwriters, too – honest!
Junglejim says
Cole Porter by a mile.
Honourable mentions to Harold Arlen & George Gershwin for contributions to the Great Amerian Songbook.
Lou Reed
Hank Williams
Smokey Robinson
Lamon, Dozier, Holland
Burt Bacharach
Chuck Berry
Ian Dury
Leonard Cohen
Desmond Dekker ( seriously)
Chris Collingwood/ Adam Schlesinger ( Fountains Of Wayne)
fentonsteve says
I know I’m biased, but that Boo Hewerdine would be in my top few.
Tiggerlion says
Elvis Presley is credited as a co-writer of the following songs:
All Shook Up
Don’t Be Cruel
I Didn’t Make It On Playing Guitar
Let Me
Love Me Tender
Paralyzed
Poor Boy
That’s Someone You Never Forget
We’re Gonna Move
You’ll Be Gone
Some really good songs there. However, I’m sure Otis Blackwell and Ken Darby (whose wife was credited instead of him) would have a thing or two to say about their provenance.
Anyway, it’s an excuse to post Paralyzed.
Twang says
Never liked Shipbuilding. Just sounds whingy.
Feedback_File says
Damn you Afterworders and these fucking lists ! I love them but hate the pain they cause . There seems to be a lot of favourite songwriters in these lists but its meant to be about the greatest.
So mine are trying to represent what IMHO is the best of a few different styles – but they all wouldn’t be in my favourite Top 5
Dylan
Joni Mitchell
Bacharach and David
Lennon McCartney
Gamble and Huff
So I hate this because Ive left out Jimmy Webb, Paul Simon, Nick Drake, Becker and Fagen
Uncle Wheaty says
Ray Davies
Mike Scott
Mogg/Way?
badartdog says
Cathal Coughlan
Nick Cave
Greg Dulli
Black Francis
Mark Linkous
badartdog says
partnerships:
Buck/Berry/Mills/Stipe
Strummer/Jones
Goffin/King
Holland/Dozier/Holland
George and Ira Gershwin
Moose the Mooche says
Why bother with this “150 years” crap?
Cole Porter, the Gershwins, Sammy Cahn are not in this thread because they don’t have guitars and fucking BEARDS.
Somebody upthread mentioned Noel fucking Gallagher. My aching sides.
I give up.
Baron Harkonnen says
It`s about `taste` Moose, so as I`ve already stated this is also meant your own likes. Fucking hell I don`t know how to pick up a guitar, sit at a piano let alone play the things so how can I or anyone else as (un)gifted as me musically judge who is the best songwriter apart from what we like/prefer.
As far as the 150 year `crap` is concerned it was to prevent someone saying what about so & so born in 1893? But you have gone the other way, oh well, let`s make it the best songwriter ever. That OK?
Moose the Mooche says
Forgive me @baron-harkonnen – this was unmannerly behaviour on my part and I apologise for being a boorish bounder.
(I seem to have been in a bit of a grump on Thursday night)
Baron Harkonnen says
Accepted without prejudice Moose ; ))
Jasmine Peeking says
I’m very much an old fart, and the songwriters I list are definitely from a bygone era. They possibly won’t appeal to many but, believe me, the best songs of the people I list are finely crafted works of art. Porter would be my all-time favourite, both lyrically and musically. He’s in a different league. In the modern era, I’d say McCartney is the only one who comes near to his genius.
Cole Porter (obviously); George Gershwin; Duke Ellington; Sammy Cahn and Jerome Kern.
ruff-diamond says
I’d make a case for including Billy Strayhorn in that list as Duke Ellington’s collaborator, especially for this:
(Take The ‘A” Train)
mikethep says
Not forgetting Irving Berlin.
Zanti Misfit says
He wasn’t forgotten. Re read the thread, he’s mentioned somewhere between Bob Dylan and Bob Dylan.
Declan says
Lennon/McCartney
Bacharach/David
Holland/Dozier/Holland
Cole Porter
The Gibb Brothers
Bubbling under: Paul Simon, Jim Webb, Pete Townshend, Irving Berlin, Antonio Carlos Jobim
Declan says
Oops. Forgot Becker/Fagen. At #4 then, and keep the Gibbs as no-one else seems to rate them.
Not that ridiculous, Fin (below): numbers will be totted up, a list made, what’s (ahem) not to like?
Fin59 says
With great respect , this is a ridiculous thread.
Baron Harkonnen says
With even greater respect Fin I think you are talking…..choose any word you wish containing locks and
Zanti Misfit says
This is possibly the nadir of all Afterword threads. Sorry Baron.
We might as well be listing our favourite fictional characters.
Oh.
Junglejim says
How about a best fictional songwriters thread, then?
Now that would really niche ( & therefore totally AW).
Baron Harkonnen says
Fictional characters? What the feck are you talking about? Do you not know any songwriters? If so there is nothing wrong with that but to say it is the `nadir` of all AW threads is both insulting and unfounded. If it is so bad why have are you read so far down this thread? I reckon that Martian`s ray gun has addled your brain.
Zanti Misfit says
Baron. My comment wasn’t meant to be insulting, but not unfounded.
Who is the best songwriter in the past flibbiddyjibbidy years ?
Spare me.
“Fictional characters”?
Maybe read beyond your updates on your profile , baby? Akk ack
Baron Harkonnen says
Got it, you are a TROLL, do one.
Moose the Mooche says
Feckin goats on my bridge…
Fin59 says
Wait, what do you mean W.G. Grace is a better cricketer than Ian Botham? Ridiculous point of view. And what about Martyn Moxon? Eh?
Paul Wad says
Bob Dylan
Lennon/McCartney
Goffin/King
Stephen Duffy
Paddy McAloon
Not expecting many more votes for the last two, but they have written more songs that I love than many of the more obvious contenders.
mikethep says
Richard Strauss.
Kurt Weill.
Lennon/McCartney.
Leonard Cohen.
Bob Dylan.
Black Celebration says
Lennon/McCartney
Morrissey/Marr
Martin Gore
David Bowie
Marc Almond
ernietothecentreoftheearth says
If we are going back 150 years and including partnerships, then I suggest that Arthur Sullivan and WS Gilbert probably edge out at least one or two of those previously suggested.
Harry Tufnell says
Leonard Cohen
It’s impossible to just list five, but Cohen would be top of any list I created.
carabara says
Tom Waits
Lennon & McCartney
John Martyn
Morrissey & Marr
Paul Simon
DogFacedBoy says
Elvis Costello
Paul Simon
Brian Wilson
Paul McCartney
Tom Waits
Boring but true
deramdaze says
The only one I couldn’t imagine not being included in a Top 5 is Chuck Berry.
We’re constantly told how influential some artists are who (a) couldn’t muster a hit of any note, (b) shifted diddley squat outside London, (c) rarely got covered, (d) only actually influenced crap, and/or (e) are only famous in their own living rooms.
Chuck Berry got referenced and covered by anyone who ever mattered…….Beatles, Stones, Who, Hendrix, Buddy Holly, Bowie, Yardbirds……
Baron Harkonnen says
OK here are mine in no particular order;
Jackie Leven
Lennon/McCartney
Bob Dylan
Leonard Cohen
Brian Wilson
A rather predictable selection, all bar Jackie Leven started off, in the main, in the `60`s but no one else matches those guys IMHO. Jackie Leven was writing up until the illness that took him and apart from Dylan on my list has the largest body of work, whether it will be remembered in 50 years time as the others will most certainly be, I doubt it. It bloody deserves to be.
Gatz says
Every time I look at this blog I see someone else who should be a nailed-on entry in the top 5. Without them necessarily being the 5 I listen to most:
Bob Dylan
Leonard Cohen
Elvis Costello
Tom Waits
Difford/Tilbrook
Surprised to see that I’m the first nomination for the last one. See also Townes Van Zandt, Richard Thompson, Thea Gilmore, Jake Thackray and, oh, shitloads more.
Wraggcity says
Howsabout
Diane Warren
Peter Green
Syd Barrett
Clifford T Ward
Little Richard
and 1st reserve Eddie Cochran
The first two,lovely jewish people
Zanti Misfit says
Howsabout is clearly the best.
Fixed
Gary says
THE GREATEST SONGWRITER OF THE LAST 150 YEARS.
Interesting thread. I disagree with most of it, but it’s interesting to read nonetheless.
Here’s some views of mine:
Jagger/Richards? Feck right orf! A handful of decent choons and one classic (Gimme Shelter) does not great songwriters make.
Leonard Cohen? Feck right orf! Three or four classics a gazillion years ago, plus an enormous wealth of overrated third rate dross (including everything on his last two albums) does not a great songwriter make.
Joni bleedin’ Mitchell? Feck right orf! Godawful conservative whimsy does not a great songwriter make.
Elvis Costello? Feck orf! I can see how his music appeal on a personal level (like, say, David Sylvian does to me) and I even give him kudos as an occasionally brilliant lyricist, but he ain’t never gonna fool my grandma.
Strummer/Jones? Feck orf! Even though I adore The Clash (and BAD, and The Mescaleros, and even Topper’s solo Stax style thing) it’s their very crapness that I adore. You might as well say Manu Chao is “a great songwriter”.
Pete Townshend, Ray Davies? Feck right orf! Eek! Fer gawd’s sake: I’m a better songwriter than both of them put together and I have yet to write a song.
Lou feckin’ Reed? Feck right orf! Street Hassle (the song, not the album) and Coney Island Baby (the song, not the album) are all you need.
Tom Waits? Feck orf! Was briefly brilliant, but soon disappeared up hit own posterior. Banging an old sink against a rusty shed and adding a sick dog’s growl does not a great songwriter make.
Morrissey/Marr? Yeah, they were good.
Paddy McAloon? Feck yeah! Now there was a great songwriter. A GREAT songwriter.
So, I’m glad that’s sorted.
ruff-diamond says
Best post ever.
Zanti Misfit says
Go to bed, you deluded nitwit. x
Baron Harkonnen says
Jagger/Richards, Pete Townsend??? Nobodies voted for them up to this point Gary.
Gary says
Rigid D woulda done had he had another go. (I’m sure I’d have been less confused had I not been so heavily sedated.)
Bladderman says
Last 150 years eh?.. Richard Thompson got asked to do 10 greatest songs of the millenium by Playboy magazine in 1999. To quote him “Ha! I thought hypocrits,they mean the last 20 years – I’ll call their bluff & do a real 1000 year selection”.
He ended up making a wonderful show of this & brilliant DVD – ‘1000 years of popular music’. (“..when’s he gonna get to Motley Crue?”) is one memorable aside from the stage. He finished this show with ‘Ooops I did it again’ (2001)
So, with apologies to Richard Thompson, I’ll call your bluff
Cole Porter
Leadbelly
Frank Loesser
Hank Williams
uh.. Richard Thompson
Otherwise Lennon/McCartney
Paul Westerberg
Mick Jagger/Keith Richards
Prince
Bob Dylan
Zanti Misfit says
and no Leiber/Stoller?
This thread is gash.
Lando Cakes says
Gash. And possibly even pure shan.
Deviant808 says
After about a whole minute or so of thought
Tennant/Lowe
Nick Cave
Kristin Hersh
Buck/Berry/Mills/Stipe
Tom Rowlands and Ed Simons
Mike_H says
Having thought long and hard for at least a couple of minutes, I’ve come up with this purely subjective list of 5 great songwriters of the last 70 years or thereabouts. Presented in random order.
Jerry Lieber & Mike Stoller
Holland, Dozier & Holland
Lennon & McCartney
Jerry Goffin & Carole King
Hank Williams
Bubbling under:
Leonard Cohen
Nick Lowe
Randy Newman
Warren Zevon
Paul Simon
Joni Mitchell
The Old School list:
Johnny Mercer
Irving Berlin
G&I Gershwin
Jerome Kern
Ellington/Strayhorn
Baron Harkonnen says
Just a bump, if anyone else has a comment or vote to cast. No doubt the trolls will be itching to say something.
ernietothecentreoftheearth says
Further to my Gilbert and Sullivan nomination, I was going to add Stephen Foster, but I think he died in 1864 or thereabouts. Can he squeeze in ?
Junior Wells says
Interesting to see Ellington / Strayhorn – do instrumentals qualify?
I agree yes all of these people have written good songs. I will add another to the sole Aussie nominee Nick Cave. Paul Kelly is a master songwriter .
Junior Wells says
Oh and Pommy immigrants Vanda and young
Baron Harkonnen says
I will be going through all the posts and probably post the results later today or tomorrow at the latest.
I will score by giving one point to each of the first 5 songwriters each poster names then total up.
Thanks to all of you who took this in the spirit it was meant.
Zanti Misfit says
Sorry if I offended you, Baron, I’m not a troll, I just thought the idea of listing the greatest songwriter of the last hundred and fifty years a bit…
I concede I should have worded my reservation better or probably not commented at all. I post on another message board and we have a much more boisterous manner with each other and I sometimes forget you can’t be like that on The Afterword.
I had no right to piss on your chips and I apologise.
Baron Harkonnen says
Zanti, Maybe I should have worded the OP better. When I was asking for people to nominate the best songwriters of the last 150 years this was to, hopefully stops the pedants saying for example “what about so & so he was the best barrel organ music composer in 1879”. What I really should have asked was who are your favourite songwriters? Simples.
I like lists as do many others here, and lots do not like lists. I will probably start another worst list ever thread later this week, ; ))
Thanks for your apology, it takes a lot to do so in public and I appreciate it, in fact you have just given me the idea for another best of, so thanks for that.
Zanti Misfit says
Thanks. Sorry again. I can’t take any intellectual high ground about lists coming from who someone who started a “Who’s your favourite robot?” thread a couple of years ago.
Dave Ross says
Howard Jones
Roland Orzabal
Mark King
Richard Drummie
Nick Heyward
Baron Harkonnen says
Late in the day DA but I am the boss of this poll and I agree with Roland Orzabal being a great song writer.
Gary says
And what connects Roland Orzabel (and Curt Smith) to the above mentioned Elvis Costello I hear you not wondering in the slightest? Why it’s the fact that Elvis Should Play Ska, of course!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xLNpfOF5ao
Zanti Misfit says
Has Joe Jackson had a mention yet?
Baron Harkonnen says
Voting Finished!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
H.P. Saucecraft says
Another Afterword “poll” that shows they like the Beatles, and neither know nor care much about songwriting.
Baron Harkonnen says
You are talking bollocks @H.P. Saucecraft. How the fuck do you know whether I know or care about songwriting or for that matter others around this place.
Just because you tag your farticulate comment on at the arse – end of a thread dosen`t mean it won`t get noticed.
Baron Harkonnen says
@h-p-saucecraft ^
H.P. Saucecraft says
Gosh. I regretted that “and neither know nor care much about songwriting” bit, but what can you do? A poll that “decides” in some way that Lennon & McCartney were the greatest songwriters of the last one hundred and fifty years would seem to indicate that the voters didn’t know much about songwriting in the last one hundred and fifty years. There’s a lot of musical knowledge on the blog, but it didn’t manifest itself here en massive. The wisdom of crowds and all that.
Why didn’t I vote? For the same reason that an Afterword poll for Best Bass Player Of The Last One Hundred And Fifty Years would inevitably result in a decision for Paul McCartney. Or Best Group Of Musicians Of The Last One Hundred And Fifty Years or whatever other category the Beatles could be considered for.
The poll didn’t “decide” anything, of course. It showed that The Afterword, as a Massive, still has a big gooey crush on a group called the Beatles, so no news there.
Still, thanks for the hard man lecture, “Baron”. Put me right in my place, it did, and no mistake.
@baron-harkonnen
Bingo Little says
On this theme, I think that – whatever we might tell ourselves – “best” and “favourite” are more or less interchangeable for the purposes of polls like these.
I have no idea what objectively makes someone a good songwriter. I’m not a musician, so I have very little appreciation of technical proficiency, and I’m not sure you can measure it by record sales either. So I voted for the people who have written my favourite songs, the ones I love and that move me time and again.
It would be a bit perverse to think “Well, Kurt Cobain wrote the songs that defined my adolescence and that I still listen to in awe 20 years later, but lots of people say the Beatles are great, so I’d better take this seriously and vote for Lennon instead”.
That doesn’t make the poll worthless, by any means, but it seems perfectly fair to observe that what it ultimately demonstrates is that people on here really, really like the Beatles. Oh, and Leonard Cohen – I was surprised to see him so high.
H.P. Saucecraft says
There was a token smattering of votes for writers from the golden age of songwriting – the ‘forties, into the ‘fifties – when mature (you know, for grownups – what we are) and often beautiful lyrics were wedded to sublime melodies and imaginative arrangements and sung by virtuosi. But a lot of these truly great songwriters, who reached heights in their craft that no pop group ever came close to, never got a single vote. That was as telling in its way as Lennon & McCartney getting the “most likes”.
Black Celebration says
@h-p-saucecraft. May I be the first to offer my sincere apologies for being a thunderingly dull! mouth breathing philistine? . We have let you down – but you know what’s worse? We’ve let *ourselves* down.
H.P. Saucecraft says
I know. I know. We must get through this together. We’ll all be better for it. I like to think that in a few years – maybe a dozen or so – we’ll be able to look back on this and laugh.
Baron Harkonnen says
Dearest @h-p-saucecraft my only intention was to point out that in your infinite wisdom (no I do not mean to sarky) you cannot know whether or not I regard Cole Porter (for example) in as high esteem as Macca/Lennon. I have rarely played a Cole Porter tune if ever but that does not mean that I do not recognise that he was a great songwriter. I and many like me voted for who we listen to/influenced by in our lifetime.
I do not expect you to admit you may be wrong or otherwise, I rarely do and that is why I love to have a conflict of opinion. If I came across as a `hard man`, what can I say, you were wrong in your assumption. LOL (and no, once again I`m not being sarky, it`s not life and fucking death is it?)
H.P. Saucecraft says
It’s tempting to say that Lennon & McCartney weren’t even the best songwriters in the Beatles, but that’s one poll they deserve to win.
Maybe if you’d have limited it to the last fifty years? Extending the time frame backwards opened up possibilities which were mostly ignored.
Baron Harkonnen says
I`ll agree with that, I should have given a bit more thought to the original question. That`s life.