The debate goes on. We can’t leave it alone. It keeps bubbling up to the surface no matter what we do to keep it down. So this is it. The ultimate discussion on this persistent topic. Which band has been the most influential: Yes, or Pink Floyd?
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I think there are various aspects of both bands’ colourful histories that demand comparative analysis.
ALBUM COVERS
I give Yes the prize only because I like Roger Dean’s colours and spacey dungeons and dragons schtick. The unlistenable “Tales of Topographical Oceans” is at least a wonderful piece of rock art. And the early covers all conveyed that cerebral other worldliness that Jon Anderson put across in the songs (or least I think that’s what Jon was conveying).
(though I might add that Floyd’s DSOTM is quite elegant in its simplicity)
MOST LINE UPS
Yes seem to carry the day. I’ll leave the good Mr Baskerville to enunciate the various combos ie those with and without Rick, Chris and Jon, and the drummer whose name escapes me. Plus the revolving door of keyboardists. Am I right in thinking that Steve Howe has been the only constant throughout?
PROGRESSIVE MUSICAL DEVELOPMENT
Its a tough call this. But I give Floyd the prize. Having established themselves as the ground breaking psychedelic band in the 60s under Barrett, they switched direction under Waters/Gilmour and went on to produce music that really transcended the whole genre through Meddle, DSOTM, Wish You Were Here and The Wall. And when Roger left they still produced first class music, best represented on The Division Bell.
On the other hand, Yes peaked early in the 70s, meandered into radio rock commercial success in the 80s and have been their own tribute act ever since for the past 2 decades. Most of their back catalogue since the mid 80s is completely forgettable. Can you still get it?
MOST ENJOYABLE MUSIC
Floyd by a country mile. They are incapable of playing anything but sublime arrangements, even on edgy heavier tracks on the Wall. Jon Anderson’s high pitched vocals have always jarred my ears slightly and Howe’s twiddly guitar style often comes across as too self indulgent. When I listen to records like Fragile I mainly lock into Chris Squire’s bass guitar rhythms.
BEST GUITARIST: Gilmour. This is not up for argument. He is simply a magical and fluid player even on a dud track. Howe fiddles, twiddles and piddles and you never know where the tune is going next, assuming there is a tune.
BEST BASS: Squire. Awesome.
BEST KEYBOARDIST: Wakeman. And he makes me laugh on the radio.
BEST SPINAL TAP INSPIRATION. Wakeman. All that King Arthur on ice stuff, for f-k sake!
BEST DRUMMER: I’ll give it to the Yes bloke by default.
BEST CHIPMUNK IMPRESSIONS: Jon Anderson.
BEST LONG RUNNING FEUD: Floyd. Waters v Gilmour makes all other feuds pale into comparison (except maybe Gillan v Blackmore and The Kinks’ Davies brothers)
I do hope I’ve contributed a keen sense of balance, totally impartiality, and objectivity on this important subject.
Interesting comments from Rocker43. The only constant band member in Yes has been Chris Squire.
Dave Gilmour a ‘better’ guitarist than Steve Howe? I really don’t think so. I’d like to see DG take on ‘Clap’ and see how he gets on with that one.
In terms of playing ability, Yes were streets ahead. Put Bill Bruford and the somewhat challenged Nick Mason head to head and again, let’s see how they get on.
But it isn’t all about chops. What I like(d) about DSOTM is its simplicity. It really isn’t very difficult music, but it is beautifully melodic, beautifully recorded, and very well played. If prog is about complexity, then the opening sequence of Close To The Edge knocks anything that Floyd ever put together into a cocked hat. But, Floyd had the melodies and that, in the end, is what it’s all about.
Better? That’s a tricky comparison – Howe is definitely more technically proficient, but he can’t actually write a tune/song – as his solo work attests rather too enthusiastically.
To go back to the original question – I’d have to be on the side of Floyd being the most influential globally – it could be argued that Dark Side of the Moon is more influential than everything Yes did put together.
Personally, I listen to Yes considerably more often than I listen to Floyd.
Best? Pink Floyd, natch. As you say, itfc, far more melodic. And with better lyrics and better dress sense.
But “Most influential”? I’d have to say Pink Floyd again. Who was influenced by Yes? Laura Ashley, perhaps. Who was influenced by Floyd? Far too many to name, from David Bowie to Radiohead.
Oh, please – “Topographic Oceans” unlistenable? In a variety of respects, it really depends on the state of mind you have. But “Ritual” stands up, and so does “The Revealing Science of God”. The ensemble playing of “Yes” – at least up to “Going for the One”, is generally great, though 40 years on, the late-hippie New Age lyrics grate. Pink Floyd lost it after “Meddle” for me, but the world won’t listen, and their stadium-phase songs seem to appeal to many – and are often very good of themselves. But the Pink Floyd became less progressive after “Meddle” IMHO, and by the “The Wall” were pretty much another rock band, albeit with a history and concepts to live up to: I think it’s no surprise that “The Wall” appealed to rockers more than heads, and was a bigger commercial success because of this.
Despite being a big progressive fan, I’m not convinced that the genre really inspire current bands – maybe Floyd = Flaming Lips? The thing is, progressive music was often about instrumental skill, slick arrangements and conceptual themes over an album. Instrumental chops became infra-dig in the post-punk year-zero received wisdom (though progressive music was dying by 1975, a good year before UK punk started going).
Answering the question on the paper, the answer would have to be Floyd. In fact, my challenge to the blog would be to ask ‘Who was influenced by Yes?’ I can hear keyboards in other bands influenced by Wakeman (The Decemberists and Big Big Train spring to mind) but if there have been bands influenced, I don’t think they lasted long.
I say this not as a Yes detractor, far from it.
Who was influenced by Yes?
No they weren’t
“I woke up in a mystical cave, a policeman knew my name”
Influenced by Yes?
The Flower Kings – as Fraser once mentioned on a Word podcast, they were ‘the Swedish Yes’ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flower_Kings
Pretty short list
See also Starcastle, from the US
I think there’s a case to be made that Prog most certainly was and still is influential for a certain type of band, which is not the same as saying that these bands want to sound like or copy their influences – which undoubtedly was the case for the Pistols and the innumerable shite sound-alikes that followed in their wake. There are of course exceptions – Marillion, and their Gabriel-era fixation with Genesis. But there are a significant number of bands who have done very well commercially and whose roots are most definitely in the Prog camp. The most obvious ones are Radiohead and Muse. I’m sure there are others but I can’t think of any right now.
Tears in my eyes.
People getting angry with each other about Yes. It’s such a relief to have the family together again.
I feel like like Jenny Agutter at the end of The Railway Children.
“Deddy, Deddy…”
Influential? Got to be Floyd .. just remember everyone’s response to their appearance at Live8. Magical.
Always thought Yes were an acquired taste. Thankfully I ‘got’ them and continue to enjoy their 1960s and 1970s canon.
Both very different in their approaches to music and composition. Floyd often seems like music for people on downers whilst Yes are for amphetamine or LSD freaks.
To say Gilmour is a better guitarist than Howe is just plain wrong to my mind .. unless you like blues pentatonic noodlings. But .. but Gilmour has tone and taste in spades. And he remains as good today as he was 40 years ago whereas Howe’s mojo and speed have deserted him .. along with his looks and hair.
I find it interesting that two of the biggest tribute acts on the circuit are Floyd covers bands (Aussie Pink Floyd and Brit Floyd .. both magnificent) whereas Yes seem to be their own tribute band
Ah well .. at least the young uns have Steven Wilson.
“But .. but Gilmour has tone and taste in spades. ”
Couldn’t agree more.
on the guitarist issue “…tone and taste in spades..” = “better”.
and “as good as he was 40 years ago” = “better”
just saying.
I prefer Howe’s innovation, his broader palette and his willingness to take risks musically. But I can see why you might think Gilmour superior.
Personally, for me it’s like comparing Ryan Giggs with Jonny Wilkinson – they are both ball strikers but they do completely different things with their balls 😉
On the other hand I much prefer Richard Wright’s restraint to Rick Wakeman’s musical scenery eating.
Whom Yes has influenced is an interesting question and views seem to be thin on the ground currently. Well there’s Asia, The Flower Kings, Genesis, King Crimson, Joe Bonamassa, Transatlantic, Dream Theater, Marillion, Vangelis, Brand X, The Enid, Camel, PFM, IQ, Banco del Mutuo Soccorso, Pallas, and Spock’s Beard for starters.
Don’t forget Starcastle , Ange & Shingetsu 😉
Some good choices, Baskerville Old Face, although I would say that Genesis were a far bigger influence on PFM, as may be evidenced here, especially after 3,45.
Harlequin from Chocolate Kings! Lovely, lovely, lovely…
If you want a Genesis clone then it has to be Citizen Cain.
http://youtu.be/U3Knuohv_cY
maybe Yes were more the groundbreaking and were technically better musicians, but surely Floyd have had the much wider influence over the years.
This is beautiful, less than a week in and a debate rages about the Floyd and Yes. It is great to be back.
And to my mind Floyd had the songs, the angst, the subtlety, the production, whereas Yes had the best ‘musicians’, particularly the drummer.
Has to be the Floyd. It’s all about songs, forget musicianship. The Who were probably better musicians than The Beatles, but which group had the songs? (It’s not The Who). Yes had great moments, but Pink Floyd had great albums.
….in a nutshell, Bargepole..
….thinks…wonder why my reply didn’t “reply”?….
Another thumbs up for the 40-year old debate about progressive rock influences; it’s like we’ve never been suspended.
The thing is, the progressive bands were all generally different though ‘progressive’; they had a sense of ambition. Marillion didn’t appeal to me as they were not progressive – they sounded too much like Gabriel-era Genesis to me, and what was new is no longer new 12 years later. “Wall”-era Floyd inspired Muse for sure, and it’s laudable in it’s way, but maybe Radiohead are a better example – they do take some risks and go out on a wing. The Flower Kings, like Spocks Beard and TransAtlantic are too much like a bit of old to be progressive as progressive – though they can be good in parts. Stephen Wilson I like a lot, and he does take the elements of progressive music and mix them up a bit (sufficiently for me to look forward to the new album, which is not the case for progressive bands generally). But the more I hear them, the more I find of all the progressive bands, middle-period King Crimson are the most influential. You hear them in Mogwai (though I hear Yes there, too). Tool are very Crimson, quiet-loud indie bands too.
As for clones, Triumvirat/ ELP anyone?
I adore both bands but, I’d never play one after the other. I have ‘Floyd Moments’ I have ‘Yes Moments’ but never the twain.
Now I wonder if I should start a The Sisters Of Mercy vs. Fields of the Nephilim thread…?
So this isn’t about Dave Evans’ dodgy goings on then?
Trying to rack my brain to think of any band influenced by post Piper Floyd. Can’t think of one. I enjoyed DSotM through to Animals – The Wall is unremitting dirge (lyrically and musically) from end to end but none of Floyd’s stuff moved me in the way CttE, Fragile or Relayer does. I think Yes had the lot, the funk, the groove, the Jazz and the roll but Anderson’s ‘unique’ vocal style and twee lyrics can grate.
I don’t think either of them had any lasting influence outside of their bank managers, solicitors and music biz contracts.
But I love classic Yes. All personal innit.
The exam question is who was more influential and the answer is obviously the Floyd. Beyond that any suggestion that one was “better” is irrelevant because they were completely brilliant and totally different. Both had great (and different) approaches to songwriting. Probably on an emotionally level I appreciate Dave Gilmore more than Steve Howe, and I think he has a distinctive soloing voice, which Howe doesn’t, but SH is a staggering guitarist and I agree, DG couldn’t play “The clap” – but I suggest SH couldn’t play the solo from Money either. it’s a pointless argument, they’re both great and different though you might prefer one or the other. I love the, both TBH but the Floyd edges it. I think there’s more emotion at work, and particularly their later stuff about being fucked up by life grabs me.
The exam question is who was more influential and the answer is obviously the Floyd. Beyond that any suggestion that one was “better” is irrelevant because they were completely brilliant and totally different. Both had great (and different) approaches to songwriting. Probably on an emotionally level I appreciate Dave Gilmore more than Steve Howe, and I think he has a distinctive soloing voice, which Howe doesn’t, but SH is a staggering guitarist and I agree, DG couldn’t play “The clap” – but I suggest SH couldn’t play the solo from Money either. it’s a pointless argument, they’re both great and different though you might prefer one or the other. I love them both TBH but the Floyd edges it. I think there’s more emotion at work, and particularly their later stuff about being fucked up by life grabs me.
Early Porcupine Tree were quite ‘Floydy’.
It’s 1974 – I am at Knebworth with friends – A Spitfire does a victory roll above the stage, the sun is going down and Shine on you crazy diamond is captivating a large happy throng of people who had waited all day to see this wonderful band and it was everything I hoped it would be.
Never saw Floyd again, only saw Yes once when they toured Tobographic Oceans. Knebworth lives on in my mind as a special day. Yes at the Hippodrome lingers in my memory for being a major disappointment. At that time Yes were my favourite band. As time elapses it is clear for me Floyd have lasted longer in my psyche and I can still listen to their music. Yes sadly have disappeared from my CD shelves perhaps never to return.
I always thought they were Crimson-y!