I thought it was a terrific start. It’s been too long since it left our screens and I was immensely pleased it had lost none of its edge.
Almost all the main characters were in very different places from when we last saw them.
I was finding it difficult to see Gilou as head of the squad. The guy who for six series has been a man who redefined the concept of bending the rules to obtain a result is suddenly a stickler for protocol and cared about training up a new member; the guy who disdained technology in favour of giving a suspect a slap is now into phone taps, phone tracking, CCTV surveillance etc.
I was worried about Josephine (sigh…) locked up in chokey, but pleased to see that she hadn’t lost her ability to manipulate a situation to her best advantage. It will be interesting to see how her relationship with her new cellmate evolves – feral cunning against the implicit threat of violence. It will end badly for one of them, and I wouldn’t bet against Josephine – though I suppose they may form an uneasy alliance and end up taking over the prison.
I was surprised she wasn’t parlaying her legal training and skills to greater advantage to curry favour among the other inmates.
My main worry is that her despair at her situation will lead her to do something reckless and detrimental (what – Ms Karlsson doing something impetuous?)
Is Laure a time bomb waiting to explode? How long will it be before she decides she doesn’t need her meds? She’s already trodden on Gilou’s toes (and I thought he was extremely accommodating to her) – how long can this inversion of their previous roles last? Is she going to be as complicit with her baby’s father in future episodes (sorry, I’ve forgotten their names). Is Ali, the new recruit to the team going to fall for her fatal charms, into her arms and into her bed? How would that affect the Gilou/Laure dynamic?
Monsieur Le Juge – what is going on with the anaesthetist sub-plot? I can’t see how this is going to get entangled with the main plot, but I’m sure it will. Maybe the doctor was Herville’s lover – wild speculation at this stage, but was that really a chance encounter in the cafe? Cognac before work – I’d never have got anything done. Will she in time become Roban’s lover – only to betray him later?
Please put your wild theories and speculations and assessments of what’s going on. I would be interesting in you sharing them.
Only six days until episodes 3 & 4.
The Afterword “Spiral” discussion – spoilers will abound, so be up to date before entering
by 42 Comments
Is it OK to reveal at this tumultuous time that after six previous series they are all still speaking French – provocative fuckers..
The BBC is now a co producer so you’d think they’d have made Johnny Foreigner speak English.
“…until we meet again and ziss case is solv-ed”
But where’s the panda?
2 threads? What are you taking about?
We are talking about this:
Spiral series 7 trailer
The first thread I posted was an alert for the new series, which I saw was returning on Saturday night. Unfortunately I didn’t see it was back on until shortly before the broadcast began.
As I know there are a number of fans of the programme here, I thought I would start a discussion thread. It’s not your standard cop show and deserves consideration and bringing to attention facets of the plot that others may have missed.
I seem to recall we have done this before. Hence the second thread, which is more appropriate than the first.
If you’re going to warn people that this is a *Spoilers* thread, it might be advisable not to include spoilers in your initial post; it’s a bit like telling your audience to look away if they don’t want to know the football results and then proceeding to read them out before they’ve even had a chance to change the channel.
The spoiler alert is in the heading. How much advance warning do you need?
My point is, if you’re on the blog section of this website, it is possible to read both the title of the post and the introductory comments without having to click on the post itself.
Spoiler alert: when les gars are dashing about in their Clios, they always manage to find a parking space in exactly the right place.
Are you complaining for the sake of complaining?
The first paragraph doesn’t give anything away.
The second, should you have foolishly ignored the thread title, hardly gives anything away and refers to the sort of thing that tends to happen in continuing series anyway.
If you have gone onto the third paragraph, then I can’t be held responsible for your stupidity.
No, it’s absolutely nothing like a warning about football scores and not giving people time to switch off the sound.
Sorted. You now have to actually click on the post to get the spoilers.
It’s a fair point. There is a “read more” tag you can insert into a post that cuts off the main post at whatever point you choose and makes the remainder visible only once the thread is entered.
You’re welcome.
Nice work, les Mods.
I watched both episodes on Saturday having not seen the previous series, but enjoying other BBC4 Saturday night fare. I really enjoyed it and I’m looking forward to the rest of the series. How many episodes are there in this series and should I (can I) go back and watch the other series?
12
and
Yes you should.
Definitely go back – all 6 previous series are great. The only slight niggle for me was that Series 1 – 3 are not shot in HD. Series 1 – 5 are avaialble via Amazon Prime Video (but not free). Series 6 is currently on iPlayer.
Content A1 all the way, however.
Thanks. I shall get on it.
Loved it – all geared up to watch the night away when I discovered there were only two episodes available. Merde.
As always, part of the pleasure is clocking all the flic slang. For instance, French for black person is le black. Qui savait?
Also: Laure is a time bomb waiting to go off. Brilliant performance from Ms Proust.
“Special delivery…. a beumm!”
Nice on the use of slang:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2015/feb/20/pute-de-merde-de-con-the-linguistics-of-spiral-slang
Also on Graun comments the other day was a nice bit about the translation of the interrogation scene with Gilou and the 15 year old- hinged in the tu/vous distinction which is obviously hard to translate into English. Will try and find it.
ETA- also it all looks impressively shitty. Is it shot with a blue filter or altered post-prod? Nice and murky apart from the blood red of the Chinese restaurant.
From Alain Dougnac:
Episode 1 provides an interesting illustration of the T/V (tu/vous) distinction in French-spoken social interactions.
During Rayan’s interview, Gilou and Rayan’s lawyer fence over the use of TU and VOUS. Gilou expectedly opts for TU when addressing Rayan for two reasons :
– he is an adult in a position of authority and Rayan is a teenager.
– his use of the derogatory TU is a common lapse by French police officers when they interview a low-life suspect. It explains the following exchange.
30:54
GILOU – Allez, on reprend… Alors, le restaurant TU connais pas… Le braquage c’est pas TOI… Le vol de la voiture c’est pas TOI non plus…
LAWYER – VOUS, commandant. Le vol c’est pas VOUS.
GILOU (disregarding the lawyer’s remark) – Ca c’est bizarre quand même parce que TON éducatrice elle, elle est sure que c’est TOI qui l’a volée la bagnole.
LAWYER- Que c’est VOUS.
GILOU – Excusez-moi, Maître, mais VOUS n’avez pas à intervenir.
LAWYER – Et VOUS, VOUS n’avez pas à TUTOYER mon client.
GILOU (scowling at Rayan) – Ca TE fait rire ça?
Both policemen continue the interview in the same fashion, ignoring the lawyer’s request.
Contrast this with Roban, always a stickler for etiquette, who deals with Rayan as he does with any other « justiciables » (= citizens under the law). His use of VOUS befits the formality of the occasion but makes him sound very standoffish.
39:20
ROBAN – Jeune homme, VOUS êtes ici devant moi pour des faits relevant du chef d’accusation de vol à l’aide ou sous la menace d’une arme et d’homicide volontaire. En clair, on VOUS reproche VOTRE participation à un braquage suivi d’un double meurtre.
…
Initially, Rayan responds respectfully :
RAYAN – Hé, Monsieur, je VOUS jure, ces types là je les ai jamais vu morts.
However, when Rayan’s mother barges in and Roban asks her to wait ouside, tempers flare and Rayan’s politeness to Roban vanishes :
RAYAN (angrily and contemptuously to Roban) – Hé, Parle bien. Parle bien je T’ai dit. TU comprends pas le français ? Je m’assied pas. Il est où le problème ? … C’est la dernière fois que TU parles comme ça à ma daronne [= à ma mère].
All this is lost in translation since contemporary English has dropped the T/V distinction.
In particular, Rayan’s lawyer’s remarks in the first scene are an impossible challenge for translators. As could be expected, the adaptation goes wide off the mark. Compare the cues in the French version with the English translation below :
GILOU – Well, now. Let’s start again… So you don’t know the place… the hold-up wasn’t you… the car neither…
LAWYER – Commander, go gently.
GILOU (disregarding the lawyer’s remark) – But your youth worker seems sure it was you.
LAWYER- Take it easy.
GILOU – I am not talking to you.
LAWYER – No, but he is my client.
GILOU (scowling at Rayan) – Think it’s funny?
Thanks RubyBlue, an excellent dive into the subtleties overlooked by our subtitle translators.
Monsieur Dougnac however, makes the comment All this is lost in translation since contemporary English has dropped the T/V distinction.
I’m not sure what his definition of “contemporary English” includes. I’m not aware of any form of distinction in Shakespeare’s work – 16th/17th century – or even earlier in the works of Chaucer – 14th century. I don’t know how this distinction could be manifested.
However I may be completely wrong about that. Any English scholars out there able to bring some light to this slightly esoteric area of familiar/respectful address?
Interesting question. Some interesting answers here:
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/9780/did-english-ever-have-a-formal-version-of-you
“In Early Modern English, thou was the singular and you was the plural. Plural you came to be used as a polite form of address (similar to the French vous, which is also used for the plural), but over time this polite form became more and more common, eventually displacing the singular thou altogether.”
I’d also point out that the “vous” pronoun isn’t necessarily polite. It can be used to be polite and show respect. But it can also be used to establish a degree of formality and detachment, which can be quite a rude thing to do in some circumstances, showing you reject any notion of friendly familiarity with a person.
@rubyblue
Just wondering where you stand on Brexit..?
Brexit?! Putain de bordel de merde!
Je suis une bien pensant Guardianista, naturellement.
Mais oui.
I think you’ll find that the French for bien pensant is virtue-signalling.
Bof. *shrugs*
You’ll trip over that chin if you jut it out any further.
Jut what out Moose?
Comment dame!*
*I had to use Google translate
Fascinating, @rubyblue. Fortunately my rusty French is up to hearing the tu/vous distinction. The Guardian article confirms that the cops always use tu with the youth they’ve nicked or hauled in for questioning. The lawyer must be new.
I’ve noticed in the previous series they always Tu the suspects. It’s a superiority/contempt thing, as mentioned above, adults always Tu children.
It doesn’t translate to English as Ruby says, but imagine adding “mate” (in this context) in English where there is a Tu.
It’s an indication of deep disrespect of the clothes they stock in Sainsburys.
How about in irish, with you and yous, as singular and plural.
Also used in the North East of England.
That can be heard on Merseyside too, I believe.
Irish influence in both cases.
Splendid post, Carlmeister. I enjoyed the episodes – though with Spiral, the whole thing is always a bit like watching a car crash over several episodes. Also, as others have said, the aura of grime and sweat and unwashedness is somehow pervasive in Spiral. Almost everyone looks like they give showers a miss three days out of four. And yes, I know that’s a stereotype view of ‘the French’.
Cuh. I used the metro a lot in Paris and… well, personal hygeine didn’t seem to be a priority for a lot of people.
I must have mentioned this before… the last time I was visiting my brother-in-law in Lille, series 6 was on telly there (without English subtitles, so I had to guess what was going on, as my schoolboy French does not extend to Parisian Rozzer slang).
I picked up a magazine in the Carrefour hypermarket which had Audrey Fluerot on the front cover. I wasn’t paying much attention at the time, but Mrs F later pointed out I had a “specialist-interest” gentleman’s magazine in the trolley.
I had a quick look on my way to return it to the shelf. Carpet and curtains do match, in case you were wondering.