Twang, Fortune 8, Uncle Wheaty, FentonSteve and Dave Big Picture gather in the pod to discuss live albums good, bad, and ugly. The boys venture off piste into genres of which they are manifestly ignorant (are there drum solos on live rap albums?) and manage to go for minutes at a time without getting back to “Live and Dangerous”.
The Afterword #71: The Live Albumscast!
by 80 Comments
What a ‘cast cast!
Did anybody request to subsequently overdub their contributions in a slightly louder voice?
They all wanted to redo their contributions but I refused. Thus is warts n all, virtually a bootleg.
I think you imploring the others to “get fookin’ loud” was rather uncalled for.
I was clearly the Sptting Image “David Steele” member of the group
I always think I sound like a chipmunk that’s been at the helium balloons.
I hope you notice the new soundcard and microphone combo allows you to hear the codswallop I spouted in much higher fidelity.
I still keep thinking of all the things I meant to say.
You meant to say…
“When we trod this land, we walk for one reason. The reason is to try to help another man to think for himself. The music of our hearts is roots music: music which recalls history, because without the knowledge of your history, you cannot determine your destiny; the music about the present, because if you are not conscious of the present, you are like a cabbage in this society; music which tells about the future and the judgement which is to come.”
It’s not your fault you couldn’t shoehorn this into a discussion of Bogshed Live at Sutton Scotney Services.
Will listen later but, in the meantime, here’s my top 5
Live at Leeds (original) -The Who
It’s Too Late to Stop Now – Van the Man
Get Your Ya Ya’s Out – Stones
Kicking Television – Wilco
Live ’66 – Bob Dylan
A few of Springsteen’s downloads would also be in contention, but not technically albums.
I think we realised it’s too big a topic for one podcast!
Here’s my twopenneth:
I have never listened to ‘Live and Dangerous’
There are splendid “Electronic” live albums by Orbital (Live at Glastonbury) and Underworld (Everything, Everything) and The Orb U.F.Orb initially came with a stunning live LP. Autechre have also done a series of semi-improvised live albums nothing of which is on their actual albums.
The Kraftwerk ‘Minimum Maximum’ album is brilliant. Ralf sings live and he and Florian play live parts and the other two Kraftblokes mix and mangle beats and sounds – it sounds ace and it’s good fun.
New Order used live sequencers rather than backing tapes (with Barney often re-soldering failing kit during soundchecks) – but Steve Morris played along to the sequence rather than the other way around – and on some songs he played keyobards. Quite a lot of New Order is live bass, guitar, drums and keyboards anyway.
Depeche Mode always used backing tapes, and latterly had their stuff running on computers – however they always had as much of the keyboard parts played live as possible -mostly played by Alan Wilder who has what you lot would call “chops” – the rest done two-finger stylee by Martin Gore and Fletch. These days they have a “real” drummer and Martin Gore plays guitar on most tracks – no solos though so nothing for you rockers 😉
Big up for Minimum Maximum!
Planet of Visions is fookin’ MEGA. A great gallumphing party banger, it ought to be the anthem of the UN.
Where were you when we needed you Doc?
I’m often ‘in reception’ for podcasting @Twang but didn’t get the call!
Noted Doc. I use my thread from when we relaunched after the departure of DFB as an aide memoire of who is interested in taking part but I’ll add you to the list. Anyone else? A guest chair even?
There is also The Orb’s “Live 93” live album which I really enjoy.
Am a live and dangerous virgin also.
Over-sharing, dude!
I hope nobody busted a button on their traaaahsers. We wouldn’t want your traaahsers to fall down…
The Stones were rarely mentioned.
A shame as Ya Ya’s is a great album
Iron Maiden’s Live After Death is the classic, Flight 666 is the keeper. Death On The Road is the personal favourite. Not to mention Maiden England ’88. Oh, and some others.
(Will get back to you when I’ve actually heard the pod.)
Not had a chance to listen yet,, but can I say that if you discussed and decided upon the worst live album of all time and you didn’t say that that it was was Alice Cooper’s The Alice Cooper Show (Warner Bros 1977) then you got it wrong.
If you didn’t discuss the worst live album, that’s fine, but it’s still The Alice Cooper Show.
And on a positive note as live albums go, Jackie Leven For Peace Comes Dropping Slow probably can’t be bettered.
And for 10 special Afterword BONUS POINTS:
What does Jackie Leven’s live album “For Peace Comes Dropping Slow” have in common with the Brian Eno track “Through Hollow Lands” off “Before and After Science”?
Neither were made in 1971?
Yeats?
That’ being William Butler not Sean the cyclist.
Bogart is correct with his W.B. Yeats answer.
Both titles are quotations from Yeats poems.
“For Peace Comes Dropping Slow” is from The Lake Isle of Innisfree
“Through Hollow Lands” is from The Song of Wandering Aengus
I much prefer a well recorded bootleg recording over a more official cleaned up live album. It’s the warts that makes a live records. There’s a great semi-official Kraftwerk album from ’74 where the best bit are almost the gaps between the tracks where the machines are humming and buzzing to themselves. One of my all time favourite records is New Order live at the Paradise Garage on white vinyl, it’s a bootleg, but it’s great, they play “Thieves Like Us” for the first time and it baggy with them feeling there way through it, other tracks have bum notes and there’s feedback but i just gives you that feeling of it being real and there.
I love the Talking Heads, including “Stop Making Sense”, it’s a great soundtrack to a great film but is it really live? Should a live album really include this line in the credits? “Re-recording for film at Can Am and Ocean Way, Los Angeles and Right Track, New York”.
(PS: If you are going to buy this album get the reissue, it has more Talking Head big bang goodness)
PPS: As a Fall fan I could introduce you to quite a few contenders for the worst live albums, Somebody seems to have spent the last 20 years on a secret mission of releasing every bootleg cassette of The Fall on CD, in an incomplete form which brings me to my next grip.
If you are going to release a live album of a single gig, for the love of god (or your supreme being of choice) put the whole gig on there, especially when there’s room on your CD.
There are some absolutely cracking Fall live albums though and ‘Totale’s Turns’ (“last orders half past ten..”) and ‘The Fall in a Hole’ are utterly essential listening.
In the early days New Order, being short of new material, would often play new, unfinished tracks and Barney would be making the lyrics up as they went along which gives the lie to the idea that it’s all pre-sequenced. This is a good example immortalised on the ‘Taras Shevchenko’ VHS filmed in 1981. You can hear ‘Temptation’ is still very much work in progress here – Gillian is playing a melody on a keyboard which is being sequenced with the drum machine but otherwise everything is live and it can ramble on as long as they want it to – which they do.
Yes, Doc – I saw them make up Bizarre Love Triangle during a rare encore in glamorous Hemel Hempstead.
There’s a great bootleg from a Barcelona gig where the machines break down in the heat in comical ways. As per various books and technical essays (e.g. SoundOnSound articles), even their “pre-recorded” sequences were triggered live, usually by a gate on the snare drum mic. They retained the “punk” ethos long into their career. Post-divorce, it is more backing tracks than played live.
A favourite bootleg amongst NO nerds is from a 1985 Central London Poly gig, where Barney obviously can’t hear himself and starts playing* in a different key to the rest of the band. He gets the hump and the rest of the set is frantic and fantastic.
(*) more usually, he just sings off-key. I blame the Pernod.
I had a New Order bootleg cassette once.
It was “Live at the Michael Sobell Sports Centre (Islington), 28 Jan 1985.”
I seem to recall it was pretty good.
I can’t think of a version of “Leave Me Alone” where Barney doesn’t start in the wrong key, at the wrong point and in the wrong time. Not that that’s a bad thing.
I know this is getting well off the point but I think New Order ended for me was when Peter Hook’s bass became an after thought, for me the music became a bit bland.
Finally listened. Good stuff, but a little too orientated on hard rock live albums methinks. There are more than 2 types of music, the other being apparently “electronic”. Can’t believe Live at Leeds wasn’t even mentioned, give it a listen if you haven’t heard it (the original single album).
As for Neil Young, the Rust Never Sleeps album is a single, Live Rust being a (superb) double. As for his lengthy songs, his most recent live effort has a 28 minute Love and Only Love split over 2 sides on vinyl!
The radio shows sold on amazon include Springsteen and the E St Band “Live in the Promised Land” from 1978 at Winterland. It sounds pretty great and goes straight to no. 1 in my list should it ever get an official release.
In the interest of balance, I’m no fan of heavy rock – neither of my faves (Talking Heads and Bill Withers) are heavy rock (or electronic).
I can’t believe I forgot to mention Live at Leeds, either. It’s the only Who album I like.
I’m no fan of Neil Young live albums, a point I failed to get across coherently. When your studio albums are recorded live in the studio and not really produced, or are even live with the audience mics muted (Rust Never Sleeps), then what’s the point? I’ve never made it all the way through Live Rust, hence the poor attention to detail. It could be a quadruple album for all I know…
Which version of Leeds? The original vinyl, the full CD, the double CD (with all of Tommy) or the four CD version?
I have the double CD with Tommy and the single-LP half-speed mastered. I don’t much like Tommy, so the single LP is my go-to version.
Having started with the single CD version, I remember thinking the original vinyl was a bit poor. Yes, I know it´s a classic and possibly the best thing they ever did. Six songs just seemed a bit short being used to the 14 song version.
Though we agree on Tommy. I prefer Quadrophenia, and even more so Who´s Next.
I have the double CD version with the extra tracks on CD1 and live Tommy on CD2. The first CD is excellent and still gets played a bit. The live Tommy CD has only ever been played twice, I think. I never was a great fan of Tommy and that performance did not change my mind.
Yeah, you were the outlier in the podcast. As for Live Rust I think at the time it was a perfect career summary of Neil up to that point. You have largely acoustic stuff on the first album, starting with the sublime Sugar Mountain, then the guitar driven epics on the second LP, Hurricane, Powderfinger, Cortez etc. Essential.
Can’t believe I didn’t mention Love Rust and Leeds but it’s such an enormous subject and in an hour’s chat you can’t be comprehensive. Did we mention Bob Marley Live? Should have done if not. Part of the point is to stimulate debate in the thread of course!
Is Bob Marley Live the best live Marley or just the best known? I’ve collected a few by now and I’m not sure anymore.
See also Babylon By Bus, Live at the Roxy and Easy Skanking in Boston ’78.
I’ve got Live and Babylon by Bus and really like them both but I thought the general view is Live is the best (and had the hit!). BBB got a lot of criticism when it came out for being too mainstream orientated – guitar solos etc. Doesn’t worry me one bit, mind.
I think I like the original No Woman, No Cry version more. There, I´ve said it. I return more to BBB. Maybe because it feel´s more like it´s a full show.
And Live At The Roxy definitely IS a full show. The Get Up, Stand Up/No More Trouble/War medley is 24 minutes of bliss.
I agree the Roxy medley is just great – I really do like it.
My only gripe is the mix. It just doesn’t have the ‘space’ or sense of ‘space’ captured on ‘Live’ (one of the greatest live albums).
Good point. Live! has more atmosphere and room, even if Roxy is, to my ears, better musically.
You can get an ointment for love rust.
Doesn’t work, mind.
Not when it’s as rusty as mine.
@dai Neil is a live universe to himself: Live At The Fillmore East, Live At Massey Hall 1971, Time Fades Away, Live At The Roxy, Live Rust, Weld, Unplugged, Year Of The Horse and Earth.
And these are just the really really really great ones, IMHO.
One of my favourites is Filmore East with Crazy Horse. Rifftastic.
Oh yeah. If only that version of Down By The River could last for a couple of hours more…
Agreed.
Agreed! I’m sure I saw a CD which was all live versions of “DBTR”.
I’ve just searched on Dime and there is indeed a “Down By The River” compilation.
According to the notes, the ten different versions range from a solo acoustic version to a 27 minute version from 2002 with Pancho and the MGs, recorded at the Nurburgring in Germany that “reminds us that Neil’s songs work in just about any configuration and can mesmerize for hours”.
Unfortunately there is no one currently seeding it, so I can’t download it.
I’m fairly sure I saw it in a record shop in Cambridge. Don’t know why I didn’t buy it.
Not been mentioned previously or in the podcast (unless it gets mention in last few minutes…not finished listen fully as yet) , Welcome Back My Friends To The Show That Never Ends Ladies and Gentleman Emerson Lake and Palmer was a darn good album and I think it was the first live album I ever purchased. And the other ELP live from that pre-punk era Pictures At An Exhibition is also top notch. Keeping the live/ELP link Radio 1 played PFM’s Celebration from the live Cook album, I duly purchased the album and then shortly after PFM on the Chocolate Kings tour became my first concert.
More classic live jazz albums than even Humphrey Lyttelton could shake a stick at.
Several by Art Blakey’s Jazz Messengers alone. Quite a few by Miles Davis. Then there’s Duke Ellington Live at Newport 1956.
There’s a great Daft Punk Live album from the ‘Homework’ era, which is basically an hour of extreme 303 abuse.
How the mighty have fallen…
Have to disagree with the podcast’s verdict on The Velvet Underground Live 1969 – despite sound limitations it is absolutely essential and for the most part, all performances outshine their studio counterparts. Even better, you can now get most of it on the Matrix Live box set with vastly improved sound.
I think he corrected that to Live at Max’s Kansas City. 1969 is indeed awesome.
Indeed I did. Max’s sounds awful.
Also… having listened to it, I feel it’s inescapably linked to the notion of the live album being something that really only belongs in the realm of hard rock/classic rock. There’s a cursory mention of JB live at the Apollo and a few others, but for the most part it’s all the usual suspects: Lynyrd Skynyrd, Deep Purple, UFO et al.
This might be the reason why the notion of the live album has lost its marketability, that it seems so tied down to a bygone era.
Does Sam Cooke Live At The Harlem Square Club get a mention? Otis at the Whiskey? Aretha and King Curtis at Filmore? Misty Live at the Counter?
I’ll be listening tomorrow when I have a spare hour.
Stop making me feel bad.
The number of live albums released is huge. There are over 350 albums made at the Village Vanguard alone! You can’t cover everything. A ‘Rock’ Livecast is a perfectly valid & reasonable thing to do. We (!) are just busy bumping up the comment count, keeping the thread at the top of recently updated to attract attention to the cast and to show off our own personal in-depth knowledge as gleaned from Google.
🤣
Pick any of Frank Zappa’s album releases from the mid-eighties onwards.
Apart from solo home-studio noodling on his Synclavier and the odd track with a particular musician or two, almost everything is live on stage somewhere or other.
A three-album set of live guitar solos (Shut Up ‘N Play Yer Guitar) followed by a further set along the same lines (Guitar). A single CD live set (Broadway The Hard Way) and two double CD sets from his final live tour in ’88 (The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life and Make A Jazz Noise Here) and six double CDs of archive performances in his “You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore” series. Plus a final live double (The Yellow Shark) by German orchestra Ensemble Modern, composed and arranged (and conducted, in part) by him.
As noted by a couple of contributors above, no-one mentioned Get Yer Ya Yas Out, one of the great live albums.
A couple of my favourites omitted there were Free Live and John Martyn’s Live At Leeds. Less notable than those, but one of my favourites, is Counting Crows’ album New Amsterdam.
Strangely no mention of the most famous live album (well after Live And Dangerous 🤔) Bob Dylan’s “Royal Albert Hall” gig, released a few years back in the Bootleg series.
I’d have asked the question, why does anyone buy those quasi-legal bootlegs of radio broadcasts. They can all be downloaded for free and possibly (especially with respect to Springsteen in better versions than they will sell in shops. If you do want to buy Fopp carry loads of them. I’ve also seen them in HMV, so no need to sort to the Dodgers if you don’t download torrents.
Another vote for Free Live – an album that really captures the excitement of the band. The racket when Koss starts The Hunter is just fantastic.
The Allman Brothers At Fillmore East – In Memory of Elizabeth Reed still sounds like witchcraft, even after all this time.
Todd Rundgren Back To The Bars – a wonderful double album. He sounds so happy, his guitar playing is fantastic (The Last Ride is the definitive version, for me) and it’s one of the few live albums I still play a lot.
Good ‘cast everyone.
Agree on Free and Allmans of course. Not sure we mentioned “One from the road” either. Not heard the Todd but will check out!
Get Yer Ya-Ya’s Out, like Live At Leeds, is best unexpanded.
OOAA
Regarding radio broadcasts. You can get a 15CD (!) set of Springsteen’s seminal 1978 shows for 13.50! I have only bought the Winterland part of this set and it sounds as good as anything I have heard previously. For that price getting artwork and fairly reasonable sleeve-notes, why wouldn’t you?
http://amzn.eu/d/71NBQHk
(Of course if released officially I would buy it, and I already bought the Agora part as a download, doesn’t sound much better than a previous boot I had)
I’ve got a multi disc Feat set of boots and broadcasts in a nice box with a book. I’m not a torrenter.
The Beach Boys In Concert. They were a great live band in ´72 and ´73. Anyone here who´s, well, old enough to have seen them around that time?
Love that LP (except the execrable singing on Sloop John B.) I had tickets for Wembley 75, with Elton John and the Eagles in support, but a physics A level the next day made me pass on it, to my eternal dismay.
So you missed peak era live BB and peak era Elton on the same day? That’s rough.
Hmmm … I see that tickets for that Elton John/Beach Boys/Eagles gig at Wembley were the princely sum of £3.50. Bargain!
I am old enough @Neela but I didn’t get to see them until the Elton John Wembley gig (@duco01 ). They were terrific (and no Brian Wilson btw) – so much so that we walked out on Elton John as did thousands of others. The idiot insisted on playing the new album that no one knew (schoolboy error).
I also saw the Beach Boys (with Brian) in 2012 on the 50th anniversary tour at Wembley arena and it was one of the best live shows I’ve ever had the pleasure to be at. Brian was just about fit enough to take part, which is more than can be said about the Cropredy show this year.
I was there. I’ve heard tell that The Beach Boys sound awful on bootlegs of the show but to me they were the best band I had ever seen.
Never tire of saying that I believe Slade alive to be my favourite live album.
Haven’t had a chance to listen yet, but I’m assuming Twang will have mentioned Rory Gallagher’s Live in Europe and Irish Tour 74?
Jerry Lee Lewis at the Hamburg Star Club, Creedence Live in Europe and obviously Vans Too Late To Stop Now right up there as well.
It’s probably not a classic but, I for one, have certainly been enjoying Little Steven’s latest ‘Soulfire Live’ album after catching him at the Roundhouse with Wacky Macca Thumbsaloft last year.