Twang, Tiggerlion, FentonSteve and Dai blow the cobwebs out of the pod and convene to discuss remixes and remasters. Fenton talks for approximately 3 hours about Sadie and dynamic range compression, inevitably the Fabs sets come up and Twang crowbars in the Tull series of reissues. We consider the frilly bits put around old and beloved albums to get us to rebuy things we already have multiple times, and the team tip their favourites and some clunkers to avoid.
H*ffman readers will be relieved to know this pod was mastered at -16db LUFS.
A pedant writes: SADiE
What he said.
Wow, 3 hrs on Sade is pretty impressive – Diamond Life is good, but I didn’t think she had done that many albums (I I wasn’t aware they had been remastered)
Genuinely pleased to see the pod back again. Essential listening for me when tootling’ round the North West for work.
Was fun despite some technical gremlins at my end. This is the Scott Walker box set I was banging on about. Not quite all you need, but close
https://www.discogs.com/release/1211106-Scott-Walker-In-5-Easy-Pieces
I’ve just slotted this load of old rhubarb into my Pocket Cast app. I shall listen to it on my Fiio DAP just before the Sandman visits tonight.
I go first, so you’ll be looking at the insides of your eyelids within 5 minutes.
Drat and double drat. Pocket Casts stopped uploading the Dafterword podcasts back in 2021 it transpires. Bugger.
I use Pocket Casts too, my subscription is still there, maybe it takes a day or two for the link to come through
The last one to which I have access is The Lockdowncast.
Nothing after that.
I just checked Podbean and the same there. This direct download link works, though.
I’ll stream it from the site via Chrome on my DAP. That should work.
I decided to just Bluetooth it so I’m listening to y’all at this very moment and it’s most entertaining chaps. So entertaining in fact that I’ll listen to it again when the remix/remaster of it gets released hopefully in 24bit/192khz. 😉
How long does it last? Do we fill a single CD or is it a double vinyl set?
A badly pressed dodgy bootleg’s worth on florescent green vinyl.
Sounds about right.
Twang can save all the outtakes for the 5CD set. Bonus tracks include ADC Linearity: what’s it all about? A rough guide to sampling rates and Nyquist filters. What’s so special about half-speed masters? Why won’t someone shut me up? And other popular favourites.
I don’t remember any of that. Did I fall into a trance?
It’ll be on Spotify?
I don’t do Spotify I’m afraid. I have objections to it that are too complicated to explain and I have no wish for your thread to go off at that tangent which it undoubtedly would.
I use Overcast and it picked it up pretty quickly without any intervention from me.
The Lockdowncast WAS the last one so maybe some apps remove them if there’s no activity for a long time. Might need to be added again?
Looked in my MediaMonkey library and there it was, downloaded and waiting for my attention. Subscribed a long time ago and the link still works.
“http://theafterwordpodcast.libsyn.com/rss” in whatever podcast catcher you use.
Not my favouritemost subject matter but still good to hear another AW Podcast.
It is there in my Pocketcast app now. I didn’t do anything new to make that happen
Yep mine too.
That’s how I found out about it in the first place. Imagine my surprised and delighted face.
Somehow, it seems appropriate to listen to this one on a Fiio…
We could do with an AW-branded Pono.
I Bluetoothed it to my Fiio. It made Steve sound like Bragi!
Excellent news.
Now that I come to think of it, I haven’t fired up Media Monkey 5 for several months, so no doubt it will need to download a gazillion podcasts before I can hope to enjoy that Proustian rush of the opening SFX once more.
Good work fellas (I anticipate)!
Now that my old RealMe ear-buds have died (anyone else find they just rolled over dead when left uncharged for a couple of months?) and I’ve invested in some snazzy Jabra ones instead, I’m looking forward to the puzzled glances from passing civilians as I gurn wih delight at the remix revelations I expect to hear.
A great listen, thanks all.
Nice of you
If this is streaming on Spotify please let me know how I will pick up my 0.0004p royalties
The man behind the Needle Mythology reissue label is, of course, Pete Paphides. But you all knew that anyway.
His wife once trod on my foot, as a means of introduction, backstage at the Reading Festival. I think drink had been taken.
Thanks guys! I think your consensus on the Beatles remasters/remixes is pretty much on the money. The Pepper and White album sets are absolutely terrific, and were excellent value, but the decision to align the CD sets with the vinyl content, and now the only surround mix seeming to be the Atmos one via streaming only (just Apple..?) really pissed me off! Not only that, but the pricing has jumped too. The mono cd box is my go to for the early albums, but that is now £300, which is ridiculous – the Dylan equivalent is £55.
A cheaper way to get most of the mono tracks (nearly all up to
Revolver) is with the US Albums box set. This particular one actually used the same mixes as the UK box set, the Dave Dexter jr added reverb was not included. Horrible configurations I know
https://www.discogs.com/release/8158344-The-Beatles-The-US-Albums
I did get that too….when it was less than £80! Now more than double that.
I do think Giles’s and Sam Okell’s remixing skills have improved and their forté seems to be acoustic strings, including orchestral. Giles has remixed Goats Head Soup. He makes the acoustic ballads absolutely gorgeous. Dancing With Mr D, however, is also softened and sounds more beautiful, when it should be uglier and more in-your-face.
The demix of She Said She Said attracted some criticism. The trouble was, the process revealed a third guitar line and Giles was keen for us to hear it. Under headphones, it’s weird but, streaming in a car, it’s great.
Headphones and speakers give rather different experiences with some music. The spatial element of the soundstage may not be the same.
Perhaps that’s another thing to be explored in remix technology.
It’s a bit odd that remixes that…er….aren’t like the original mix cause controversy. Surely that’s the point of a remix – to be different! Pepper worked because the original stereo was poor and the mono was brilliant, so that was the reference. The White Album works really well on the ‘lesser’ tracks and there is extra depth and clarity in the stereo picture overall. But Abbey Road and Let It Be didn’t really need the remix treatment, and Giles was quoted as saying something like he wanted to respect the original and not change too much. Revolver really did need the remix, but I’m not entirely convinced by the results – I’ll still listen to the mono!
The remix of Let It Be is magnificent, IMV, but it gets lost in all the controversy about the whole package, the missing songs and the EP etc. Try listening to Abbey Road remix followed immediately by the 1969 mix. For me, there’s no contest.
Yes the point is to be different (not if S. Wilson is at the controls) but my point on the Purps was I didn’t like it and preferred the original.
Something I didn’t bring up was Mr Wilson’s remix of the Suede debut. I’m very grateful for the hi-res transfer, but his remix smooths things out too much for me. I prefer Ed Buller’s slightly ragged original. I haven’t heard the surround.
My go-to is the half-speed mastered LP which, in a first for Suede, has actual bass.
A couple more thoughts and questions for the esteemed panel…
1. I assume anything remixed is also remastered too….or probably more accurately ‘mastered’..?
2. The above raised the question in my mind as to what ‘mastering’, or indeed ‘remastering’, actually entails. The producer and engineers produce the final mix and proudly present the tapes or digital files to….who? And then what does that person do to get that masterpiece ‘mastered’? I know this is a basic question, but I realise I really do have no idea! Presumably the mastering stage can really make or break a piece of music – is it signed off by anyone before all that product gets stamped or churned out of the pressing plant?
Have you listened to the podcast? 🥴
Yes! Sorry, I obviously missed that bit – I was doing something whilst listening, so must have been distracted! I do remember someone going on about Jethro Tull….😀
Ignore that guy!
That was me! 😉
I fear I did too. Twice.
I did mention this but you might have nodded off, which is fair enough. From a technical perspective, the definition of ‘mastering’ is transferring content from one medium to another.
A master tape/file contains more sound than can ‘fit’ on a CD or vinyl record, so the Mastering Engineer has to choose what aspects end up on the target medium. DVD-Audio, SACD and Hi-Res files can ‘carry’ the whole master tape sound.
There’s also the option to fix mistakes, adjust EQ, reduce tape noise, boost the quiet bits, level off the loud bits, etc.
Originally, Mastering involved compromises to make the music sound ‘best’ on a wide variety of devices. Nowadays, there might be separate masters for vinyl, CD, hi-res formats, iTunes, Spotify, etc.
In an ideal world, performing artist, producer, A&R, etc would all approve a master. Ultimately, whoever is paying the mastering bill have the last word.
There’s then the opportunity to cock it up further at the vinyl cutting stage and pressing plant (I’m looking at you, GZ.)
So, 1. Yes. 2. See above.
No one mentioned this box set as being amongst their favourites……
Amazing! I want one.
Just listened to the podcast, chaps – thoroughly enjoyed it!
One question for @Twang – was your friend’s band called the Flaming Gnomes? And was the label Fruits de Mer? I’ve been collecting FdM stuff for years, only stopped when funds had to be a bit more, er, focussed, last winter.
Yep that’s the one. Couldn’t remember it. William the drummer is a mate of mine.
Sorry, I listened to 191 seconds and thought do I need to listen to this or play music I love?
What did you decide?
He heard my description of the difference between remastering and remixing and decided he’d had enough.
😎
I have listened to almost all of it now Tiggs and I found your contribution to be top class, but anyone not knowing you lot wouldn’t have got beyond the first couple of minutes. It sounded like a Spitting Image send up.
Thank you, Baron, but we live and die as a team. On a Podcast, it’s the mix of personality and ‘voice’ that counts.
…and it`s the voice that put me off.
As the owner of the voice I get it Baron. I’ve never much liked it much either. I assume you won’t be listening to any other episodes which is fine.
Maybe it’s my voice he can’t stand? An aversion to Welsh accents with a slight Canadian twang @Twang 😉
I think distant Macclesfield is more likely.
We all hate the sound of our own voices though, don’t we?
I do, never listen to anything featuring my voice
Think so.
Love em’ or loathe them I think the best remasters I’ve ever heard were the ones done to all the Queen albums and greatest hits. Night and day difference for the better. (Steven Wilson does remixes so they don’t count).
They were all done by Miles Showell, Abbey Road’s half-speed master guru. The vinyl sounded even better than the Japanese SACD.
GH 1, going from a single LP with 30 minutes per side, to a 2LP with 15 minutes per side, is like night & day.
Good comprehensive chat as ever chaps. Personally don’t really get all the furore over remixes and box sets. Invariably the extra stuff is inferior vs of the official tracks and/or substandard ‘new’ songs. I also now (sadly) rarely listen to music with ‘hi fi’ in mind – normally it’s on an Alexa or EarPods whilst I’m doing other stuff. Aah those heady days when I used to sit myself between a couple of top notch speakers on stands spiked into the floor and the source being my long neglected Linn Sondek. Sigh……
I am halfway through the podcast and I can’t believe it has been so long since the last one!
When I hear the word “remix”, my thoughts turn to remixes of songs where the artist (or someone else entirely) has had a go and possibly chucks in a load of other stuff. So to me a remix is more than “moving the furniture” – it can be knocking a wall through and building an extension. Or even trashing the living room entirely and turning it into a fully functioning abattoir.
So although I was impressed by the soothing technical talk, I am wondering what the kind of remix I am talking about is called.
That’s a big subject. I think it’s a (12″ extended remix) podcast of its own.
Yes I tend to think of that as a new version based on the original but you’re right, wet missed it!
Yes. I consider that a different topic. Most of those are contemporaneous efforts at increasing commerciality & danceability. Jamie XX’s Rollin’ In The Deep, for example.
The cast considers archival material given a face lift. Modernised, if you like.
Thanks gents – appreciate your responses. I think there might be a podcast in the 12” remixes of our time(s). I’d be happy to be a part of one…how does one go about getting one’s name down?
Oddly enough, I was listening to the lastest Back to NOW! episode, while I was doing the housework yesterday, which covers 1985’s Now Dance. Recommended listening for Pop Kids.
Calling @Twang – BC has lit the PodSignal!
It is now officially down!
Interesting podcast chaps. Thanks for putting it together. I’ve just been watching a John Darko video where he suggests that the dynamic range of a master will make more of a difference to the final sound than whatever delivery format is used (vinyl, streaming whatever). Remasters ever since the early 90s have, in general, been reducing the dynamic range no doubt as part of the loudness wars. It got me wondering how changes to the dynamic range for commercial, marketing reasons impact the benefits of remastering and remixing.
Any thoughts?
Dynamic Range is not the be-all-and-end-all of sound quality. If it was, early PCM1630 transfers would sound great and – spoiler alert! – they don’t.
Darko’s recent video review of Stop Making Sense is interesting. He admits the latest remaster sounds great, full of previously unheard deatils, but then it measures badly on the DR score. I already have the Blu-ray film, which measures best and has all of the tracks, so that’ll do for me.
Something I failed to mention, as I felt like I’d gone on enough already, was the appearance of SACD & HDCD and how they made the public aware of how their CDs might not sound great if low-generation master tapes had not been used in their creation. Most of the benefit of the two doomed hardware formats was actually mastering the content properly, often for the first time since the original LP masters were done. Especially SACD, as buggering about with the DSF format in the digital domain is almost impossible.
Plus, the public furore over Death Magnetic, which sounded like being hit over the head with a brick. It even made BBC Radio 4 news!
Hi-Res downloads & streaming are still a bit hit and miss, though. Some sound magnificent, some sound just like a CD, dependent on how savvy the mastering people are.
Takes us back to Steely Dan. The 1999 remasters ignored the loudness war and focussed on dynamic range. Sounds better to me.