Twang, Tiggerlion, FentonSteve and Dai blow the cobwebs out of the pod and convene to discuss remixes and remasters. Fenton talks for approximately 3 hours about Sadie and dynamic range compression, inevitably the Fabs sets come up and Twang crowbars in the Tull series of reissues. We consider the frilly bits put around old and beloved albums to get us to rebuy things we already have multiple times, and the team tip their favourites and some clunkers to avoid.
H*ffman readers will be relieved to know this pod was mastered at -16db LUFS.
fentonsteve says
A pedant writes: SADiE
Twang says
What he said.
Chrisf says
Wow, 3 hrs on Sade is pretty impressive – Diamond Life is good, but I didn’t think she had done that many albums (I I wasn’t aware they had been remastered)
Ainsley says
Genuinely pleased to see the pod back again. Essential listening for me when tootling’ round the North West for work.
dai says
Was fun despite some technical gremlins at my end. This is the Scott Walker box set I was banging on about. Not quite all you need, but close
https://www.discogs.com/release/1211106-Scott-Walker-In-5-Easy-Pieces
pencilsqueezer says
I’ve just slotted this load of old rhubarb into my Pocket Cast app. I shall listen to it on my Fiio DAP just before the Sandman visits tonight.
fentonsteve says
I go first, so you’ll be looking at the insides of your eyelids within 5 minutes.
pencilsqueezer says
Drat and double drat. Pocket Casts stopped uploading the Dafterword podcasts back in 2021 it transpires. Bugger.
dai says
I use Pocket Casts too, my subscription is still there, maybe it takes a day or two for the link to come through
pencilsqueezer says
The last one to which I have access is The Lockdowncast.
Nothing after that.
fentonsteve says
I just checked Podbean and the same there. This direct download link works, though.
pencilsqueezer says
I’ll stream it from the site via Chrome on my DAP. That should work.
pencilsqueezer says
I decided to just Bluetooth it so I’m listening to y’all at this very moment and it’s most entertaining chaps. So entertaining in fact that I’ll listen to it again when the remix/remaster of it gets released hopefully in 24bit/192khz. š
Tiggerlion says
How long does it last? Do we fill a single CD or is it a double vinyl set?
pencilsqueezer says
A badly pressed dodgy bootleg’s worth on florescent green vinyl.
Tiggerlion says
Sounds about right.
fentonsteve says
Twang can save all the outtakes for the 5CD set. Bonus tracks include ADC Linearity: what’s it all about? A rough guide to sampling rates and Nyquist filters. What’s so special about half-speed masters? Why won’t someone shut me up? And other popular favourites.
Tiggerlion says
I don’t remember any of that. Did I fall into a trance?
Twang says
It’ll be on Spotify?
pencilsqueezer says
I don’t do Spotify I’m afraid. I have objections to it that are too complicated to explain and I have no wish for your thread to go off at that tangent which it undoubtedly would.
Ainsley says
I use Overcast and it picked it up pretty quickly without any intervention from me.
The Lockdowncast WAS the last one so maybe some apps remove them if there’s no activity for a long time. Might need to be added again?
Mike_H says
Looked in my MediaMonkey library and there it was, downloaded and waiting for my attention. Subscribed a long time ago and the link still works.
“http://theafterwordpodcast.libsyn.com/rss” in whatever podcast catcher you use.
Not my favouritemost subject matter but still good to hear another AW Podcast.
dai says
It is there in my Pocketcast app now. I didn’t do anything new to make that happen
pencilsqueezer says
Yep mine too.
cleanersvenus says
That’s how I found out about it in the first place. Imagine my surprised and delighted face.
fitterstoke says
Somehow, it seems appropriate to listen to this one on a Fiioā¦
fentonsteve says
We could do with an AW-branded Pono.
pencilsqueezer says
I Bluetoothed it to my Fiio. It made Steve sound like Bragi!
Vulpes Vulpes says
Excellent news.
Now that I come to think of it, I haven’t fired up Media Monkey 5 for several months, so no doubt it will need to download a gazillion podcasts before I can hope to enjoy that Proustian rush of the opening SFX once more.
Good work fellas (I anticipate)!
Now that my old RealMe ear-buds have died (anyone else find they just rolled over dead when left uncharged for a couple of months?) and I’ve invested in some snazzy Jabra ones instead, I’m looking forward to the puzzled glances from passing civilians as I gurn wih delight at the remix revelations I expect to hear.
BrilliantMistake says
A great listen, thanks all.
dai says
Nice of you
dai says
If this is streaming on Spotify please let me know how I will pick up my 0.0004p royalties
fentonsteve says
The man behind the Needle Mythology reissue label is, of course, Pete Paphides. But you all knew that anyway.
His wife once trod on my foot, as a means of introduction, backstage at the Reading Festival. I think drink had been taken.
Moose the Mooche says
Isn’t that Caitlin Moran? Or is she married to the other music journo with the Greek name…?
fentonsteve says
Indeed it is. She bellowed something along the lines of “WHO ARE YOU THEN?” As I explained that I was here with my chum, who was taking pictured for the NME, she was driven away by a cloud of dullness… and went off to stamp on someone else’s foot.
Moose the Mooche says
She can stand on my foot any time.
….what? It’s physical contact, isn’t it? If you look like me you’ve got to take whatever you can get ..
NigelT says
Thanks guys! I think your consensus on the Beatles remasters/remixes is pretty much on the money. The Pepper and White album sets are absolutely terrific, and were excellent value, but the decision to align the CD sets with the vinyl content, and now the only surround mix seeming to be the Atmos one via streaming only (just Apple..?) really pissed me off! Not only that, but the pricing has jumped too. The mono cd box is my go to for the early albums, but that is now Ā£300, which is ridiculous – the Dylan equivalent is Ā£55.
dai says
A cheaper way to get most of the mono tracks (nearly all up to
Revolver) is with the US Albums box set. This particular one actually used the same mixes as the UK box set, the Dave Dexter jr added reverb was not included. Horrible configurations I know
https://www.discogs.com/release/8158344-The-Beatles-The-US-Albums
NigelT says
I did get that tooā¦.when it was less than Ā£80! Now more than double that.
Tiggerlion says
I do think Giles’s and Sam Okell’s remixing skills have improved and their fortĆ© seems to be acoustic strings, including orchestral. Giles has remixed Goats Head Soup. He makes the acoustic ballads absolutely gorgeous. Dancing With Mr D, however, is also softened and sounds more beautiful, when it should be uglier and more in-your-face.
The demix of She Said She Said attracted some criticism. The trouble was, the process revealed a third guitar line and Giles was keen for us to hear it. Under headphones, it’s weird but, streaming in a car, it’s great.
Mike_H says
Headphones and speakers give rather different experiences with some music. The spatial element of the soundstage may not be the same.
Perhaps that’s another thing to be explored in remix technology.
NigelT says
Itās a bit odd that remixes thatā¦erā¦.arenāt like the original mix cause controversy. Surely thatās the point of a remix – to be different! Pepper worked because the original stereo was poor and the mono was brilliant, so that was the reference. The White Album works really well on the ālesserā tracks and there is extra depth and clarity in the stereo picture overall. But Abbey Road and Let It Be didnāt really need the remix treatment, and Giles was quoted as saying something like he wanted to respect the original and not change too much. Revolver really did need the remix, but Iām not entirely convinced by the results – Iāll still listen to the mono!
Tiggerlion says
The remix of Let It Be is magnificent, IMV, but it gets lost in all the controversy about the whole package, the missing songs and the EP etc. Try listening to Abbey Road remix followed immediately by the 1969 mix. For me, there’s no contest.
Twang says
Yes the point is to be different (not if S. Wilson is at the controls) but my point on the Purps was I didn’t like it and preferred the original.
fentonsteve says
Something I didn’t bring up was Mr Wilson’s remix of the Suede debut. I’m very grateful for the hi-res transfer, but his remix smooths things out too much for me. I prefer Ed Buller’s slightly ragged original. I haven’t heard the surround.
My go-to is the half-speed mastered LP which, in a first for Suede, has actual bass.
NigelT says
A couple more thoughts and questions for the esteemed panelā¦
1. I assume anything remixed is also remastered tooā¦.or probably more accurately āmasteredā..?
2. The above raised the question in my mind as to what āmasteringā, or indeed āremasteringā, actually entails. The producer and engineers produce the final mix and proudly present the tapes or digital files toā¦.who? And then what does that person do to get that masterpiece āmasteredā? I know this is a basic question, but I realise I really do have no idea! Presumably the mastering stage can really make or break a piece of music – is it signed off by anyone before all that product gets stamped or churned out of the pressing plant?
Twang says
Have you listened to the podcast? š„“
NigelT says
Yes! Sorry, I obviously missed that bit – I was doing something whilst listening, so must have been distracted! I do remember someone going on about Jethro Tullā¦.š
Twang says
Ignore that guy!
Tiggerlion says
That was me! š
Twang says
I fear I did too. Twice.
fentonsteve says
I did mention this but you might have nodded off, which is fair enough. From a technical perspective, the definition of ‘mastering’ is transferring content from one medium to another.
A master tape/file contains more sound than can ‘fit’ on a CD or vinyl record, so the Mastering Engineer has to choose what aspects end up on the target medium. DVD-Audio, SACD and Hi-Res files can ‘carry’ the whole master tape sound.
There’s also the option to fix mistakes, adjust EQ, reduce tape noise, boost the quiet bits, level off the loud bits, etc.
Originally, Mastering involved compromises to make the music sound ‘best’ on a wide variety of devices. Nowadays, there might be separate masters for vinyl, CD, hi-res formats, iTunes, Spotify, etc.
In an ideal world, performing artist, producer, A&R, etc would all approve a master. Ultimately, whoever is paying the mastering bill have the last word.
There’s then the opportunity to cock it up further at the vinyl cutting stage and pressing plant (I’m looking at you, GZ.)
So, 1. Yes. 2. See above.
Chrisf says
No one mentioned this box set as being amongst their favouritesā¦ā¦
Tiggerlion says
Amazing! I want one.
fitterstoke says
Just listened to the podcast, chaps – thoroughly enjoyed it!
One question for @Twang – was your friendās band called the Flaming Gnomes? And was the label Fruits de Mer? Iāve been collecting FdM stuff for years, only stopped when funds had to be a bit more, er, focussed, last winter.
Twang says
Yep that’s the one. Couldn’t remember it. William the drummer is a mate of mine.
Baron Harkonnen says
Sorry, I listened to 191 seconds and thought do I need to listen to this or play music I love?
fitterstoke says
What did you decide?
Tiggerlion says
He heard my description of the difference between remastering and remixing and decided he’d had enough.
š
Baron Harkonnen says
I have listened to almost all of it now Tiggs and I found your contribution to be top class, but anyone not knowing you lot wouldnāt have got beyond the first couple of minutes. It sounded like a Spitting Image send up.
Tiggerlion says
Thank you, Baron, but we live and die as a team. On a Podcast, it’s the mix of personality and ‘voice’ that counts.
Baron Harkonnen says
…and it`s the voice that put me off.
Twang says
As the owner of the voice I get it Baron. I’ve never much liked it much either. I assume you won’t be listening to any other episodes which is fine.
dai says
Maybe it’s my voice he can’t stand? An aversion to Welsh accents with a slight Canadian twang @Twang š
Twang says
I think distant Macclesfield is more likely.
Freddy Steady says
We all hate the sound of our own voices though, donāt we?
dai says
I do, never listen to anything featuring my voice
Twang says
Think so.
Moose the Mooche says
“It sounded like a Spitting Image send up.” – I’m late to this because it appeared when I was away, but the Baron’s description has sold it to me single-handed.
This sounds like all the wheelbarrow valves in Christendom standing priapically at a right angle….
cleanersvenus says
Love em’ or loathe them I think the best remasters I’ve ever heard were the ones done to all the Queen albums and greatest hits. Night and day difference for the better. (Steven Wilson does remixes so they don’t count).
fentonsteve says
They were all done by Miles Showell, Abbey Road’s half-speed master guru. The vinyl sounded even better than the Japanese SACD.
GH 1, going from a single LP with 30 minutes per side, to a 2LP with 15 minutes per side, is like night & day.
Feedback_File says
Good comprehensive chat as ever chaps. Personally donāt really get all the furore over remixes and box sets. Invariably the extra stuff is inferior vs of the official tracks and/or substandard ānewā songs. I also now (sadly) rarely listen to music with āhi fiā in mind – normally itās on an Alexa or EarPods whilst Iām doing other stuff. Aah those heady days when I used to sit myself between a couple of top notch speakers on stands spiked into the floor and the source being my long neglected Linn Sondek. Sighā¦ā¦
Black Celebration says
I am halfway through the podcast and I can’t believe it has been so long since the last one!
When I hear the word “remix”, my thoughts turn to remixes of songs where the artist (or someone else entirely) has had a go and possibly chucks in a load of other stuff. So to me a remix is more than “moving the furniture” – it can be knocking a wall through and building an extension. Or even trashing the living room entirely and turning it into a fully functioning abattoir.
So although I was impressed by the soothing technical talk, I am wondering what the kind of remix I am talking about is called.
fentonsteve says
That’s a big subject. I think it’s a (12″ extended remix) podcast of its own.
Twang says
Yes I tend to think of that as a new version based on the original but you’re right, wet missed it!
Tiggerlion says
Yes. I consider that a different topic. Most of those are contemporaneous efforts at increasing commerciality & danceability. Jamie XX’s Rollin’ In The Deep, for example.
The cast considers archival material given a face lift. Modernised, if you like.
Black Celebration says
Thanks gents – appreciate your responses. I think there might be a podcast in the 12ā remixes of our time(s). Iād be happy to be a part of oneā¦how does one go about getting oneās name down?
fentonsteve says
Oddly enough, I was listening to the lastest Back to NOW! episode, while I was doing the housework yesterday, which covers 1985’s Now Dance. Recommended listening for Pop Kids.
fitterstoke says
Calling @Twang – BC has lit the PodSignal!
Twang says
It is now officially down!
jazzjet says
Interesting podcast chaps. Thanks for putting it together. I’ve just been watching a John Darko video where he suggests that the dynamic range of a master will make more of a difference to the final sound than whatever delivery format is used (vinyl, streaming whatever). Remasters ever since the early 90s have, in general, been reducing the dynamic range no doubt as part of the loudness wars. It got me wondering how changes to the dynamic range for commercial, marketing reasons impact the benefits of remastering and remixing.
Any thoughts?
fentonsteve says
Dynamic Range is not the be-all-and-end-all of sound quality. If it was, early PCM1630 transfers would sound great and – spoiler alert! – they don’t.
Darko’s recent video review of Stop Making Sense is interesting. He admits the latest remaster sounds great, full of previously unheard deatils, but then it measures badly on the DR score. I already have the Blu-ray film, which measures best and has all of the tracks, so that’ll do for me.
Something I failed to mention, as I felt like I’d gone on enough already, was the appearance of SACD & HDCD and how they made the public aware of how their CDs might not sound great if low-generation master tapes had not been used in their creation. Most of the benefit of the two doomed hardware formats was actually mastering the content properly, often for the first time since the original LP masters were done. Especially SACD, as buggering about with the DSF format in the digital domain is almost impossible.
Plus, the public furore over Death Magnetic, which sounded like being hit over the head with a brick. It even made BBC Radio 4 news!
Hi-Res downloads & streaming are still a bit hit and miss, though. Some sound magnificent, some sound just like a CD, dependent on how savvy the mastering people are.
Tiggerlion says
Takes us back to Steely Dan. The 1999 remasters ignored the loudness war and focussed on dynamic range. Sounds better to me.