El Heppo has alluded to the troubles that occur within a band when some of them realise that the singer has a much bigger house than the others. Apparently The Police – and this has been alluded to in interviews – had an agreement where arranger’s fees were paid to what we colloquially refer to as ‘the other two’, however Mr. Sumner’s learned friends are arguing that, technically, this refers to ‘records’ and not streaming revenues. This seems unfair and nitpicking to me, notwithstanding that (a) he doesn’t need the money and (b) no-one’s sampling ‘Every Breath You Take’ for the bass part. Surely the track is the track, whatever medium we enjoy it through?
“Stingo’s written me another house!”
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He’s handed over more than half a million quid so hopefully Summers will knock off with the whinging.
Absolutely. A career of Zoot Money (1 hit), Animals, Soft Machine (for a tour), sessions for Kevin Coyne, Jon Lord, Joan Armatrading, David Essex, Neil Sedaka (Albert Hall) Kevin Ayers, playing Tubular Bells in front of an orchestra, appearing on TOTP with Robert Wyatt, plus a post Police career with Fripp and other alumni, featuring in Jenny Fabian’s Groupie book, plus his own books…. most people don’t get that amount of lucky breaks
That sounds like an awful number of ‘lucky breaks’.
He’s a talented guitarist, with a wide-ranging skill set – including jazz and progressive stylees. Not a shock that he was sought out by some of the names on that list – and certainly not all down to luck.
You may dislike his attitude – but that’s a different kettle of Strontium 90…
I’ve never heard him do anything interesting. What are a few examples?
Nah, nah – I’m not being drawn into that. 🙂
I know your hatred for Summers burns with the heat of 1,000 suns, so it’s a fool’s errand!
I don’t really care about him at all. It’s simply that he’s a whinger and boaster who made a lot of money with modest talent. Lucky him. Thanks for confirming this though.
Ooh! Burn! 🙃. That’s me telt…
Arf.
Neither of the other two are going to be scouring Aldi for bargains anytime soon, however, Sting seems to be worth at least three times what Summers and Copeland are individually, if the internet is to be believed so the few hundred grand he’s tossed there way would seem to be somewhat derisory, even if they aren’t on an equal share.
The Police/Sting stuff is a bit depressing. I’m torn between a) Sting sold his catalogue for $200m and why is he so Stingy and b) Why do the other two need the money? They both have had hugely successful and lucrative careers outside the Police. Plus they’re all 80 or approaching 80, and it’s a rather sad coda to their story. I blame the P Diddy sample which I hate with every fibre of my soul. That and insanity
Summers own songs are hardly bangers. I don’t hear Ringo complaining much.
I think my main issue is that there appears to be a legal point which separates ‘records’ from ‘streaming’. It’s not like there’s a remix that takes the drum part out of ‘Roxanne’ on Spotify.
Was it the Pet Shop Boys who took their label to court because costs of printing record sleeves was being witheld from their streaming royalties?
I believe the term is “packaging deduction” and it did at the time apply to digital downloads, not sure about streaming.
That’s the one!
Summers got the best deal of the lot, he was born in the same year as Paul McCartney.
So silly things like Rock ‘n’ Roll and stuff like that.
I’ll get me coat.
Stingo?
The only time I drank a bottle of this was in Newcastle after I’d travelled up there to see Lindisfarne play their Christmas reunion concert.
So Stingo and Sting.
My wife was at teacher training college in Newcastle with Gordon as he then was.
I thought Andy Summers was philosophical about that song these days. He’s moved on, let it go. It’s become more of a Hepworth hobby horse to illustrate why bands break up, except The Police had a pretty good run, still he clings to his theories for comfort.
Well ongoing litigation would suggest he hasn’t moved on.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn42lp1135vo
That seems to be more of a failure on Gordo’s part to keep to the arranged agreement rather than Andy fighting on over the Every Breath guitar part.
Doesn’t Heppo use REM and U2 as examples of how to do it, as the songs are always credited to all four members, regardless of who wrote what. But does anyone know if Stipey has a bigger house than Mike Mills for example?
That works great if they all write songs and good songs at that. Robbie Robertson is the classic example. I think there is a world of difference to coming to the band with a song and then the others enhancing the arrangement. Of course if someone just has a bit of a riff or a couple of catchy lines and the song is effectively built by the band then that is different.
Levon Helm claimed he should get more writing credits because he told Robbie (a Canadian) stories from the deep South which he turned into songs. Manuel, Danko and Helm did have writing or co-writing credits on the first 2 albums, but little or nothing after that. Drugs probably
The fact that U2 and REM were so long lived isn’t really an advertisement for sharing songwriting credits, it suggests such a method just prolongs the agony for all of us.
I don’t mean to be argumentative but I think people WERE sampling Every Breath You Take’ for the bass part, non?
Summers maintains that the main guitar riff (that he came up with and played over Sting’s original demo) made the song a hit but Sting received the full writing credit. I don’t *think* that riff is played on a bass guitar, but I’m no musician.
Oh, OK!
It does seem surprising that there wasn’t some sort of standard clause to say that this agreement applies to revenue from the music in any as yet unknown formats. I wonder if such a thing exists now. But irrespective of what the contract says I can’t really see any good reason why if someone’s entitled to rights on physical product they wouldn’t be on digital streaming. Perhaps one of our esteemed lawyers can explain?
Luke Haines has complained that Black Box Recorder don’t get any royalties for streaming. Their original, pre-streaming contract obviously didn’t include it and he claims the record company has refused to renegotiate, which is a bit off.
Probably didn’t seem to matter that much until Billie Eilish shared Child Psychology on social media and it went mildly viral.
Failing to pay royalties for new formats, or paying much lower rates isn’t new. Prince, Bowie, The Beatles, Janet Jackson and Billy Joel all got into disputes that centered on rates for CD sales that were imposed unilaterally because they weren’t in original contracts,
The principle of carrying forward payment splits on new formats seems a pretty reasonable way of doing things but record labels only interest contractually is getting the most revenue at the lowest possible cost. As a consequence, leaving new formats for separate negotiation has little downside for them – only artists with bargaining power would be likely to get any benefit.
The BPI drafted guidelines for legacy artists to agree or improve rates paid for music streamed which has had major label support but there’s still minimal transparency over the rate of agreement and scale of improvement. The fact they needed a guideline to actually do anything in the first place is pretty telling.
That’s definitely streaming profit income, given the (relatively) trivial amount. It’s a kind of an insult to give this pocket change from sting (or his legal people, and isn’t life changing for summers or copeland, though may provide a useful top-up. Ugly business.
Well… I think… 🙂
FWIW:
I think band members should be grateful to the songwriter.
I think songwriters should figure out when the guitar lick becomes part of the song – can you play the song without the part and have it not matter?
I think Heppers should know when his theories become tiresome and should avoid shrieking
I think I should go now…
I agree.
The Beatles main songwriters resolved this particular problem at source with the Lennon/McCartney credit, even though some songs are solo efforts. I guess that’s why they had a smooth, dispute-free commercial relationship.
…especially after The White Album.
I seem to remember that the Stone Roses didn’t get money from CD sales for their first LP- only cassette tapes. Yes: tapes.
REM’s songwriting split might look even – and it may well be, given they’re all old muckers – but it’s not always straightforward. My (limited) understanding is if there’s a sole lyricist, that person gets 50% of the credit. I assume that’s Stipe. Same with the music: Ian Broudie got 50% of the credit for Three Lions; Baddiel and Skinner 25% each.
Blur songs are generally credited to Words: Albarn; Music: Albarn, Coxon, James, Rowntree. This means Damon gets 62.5% of the songwriting credit. Given Blur have played Wembley and headlined Glastonbury, I doubt Dave Rowntree is at the ASDA reduced shelf. He should be, though: I got a pizza for 27p last week.
Cassettes were possibly the biggest selling format at that time? Vinyl on it’s way down, CD on it’s way up.
That’s funny @hamlet!