I have often wondered if artists play their most well known songs out of obligation to their audience but secretly think ‘do we really have to play this every night?’
I have seen Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler solo probably around 20 times and never not seen them play Sultans of Swing.
The Waterboys have played TheWhole of the moon every time I have seen them – twice in the last 3 months including Moseley Folk Festival where they started with it which I thought was a little bizarre but it worked.
Would Lindisfarne ever not play Fog on the Tyne or Elbow not play A day like this?
Has anyone seen a band where they have deliberately not played their most famous song? I once saw Yes play the unreleased Tales from Topographic Oceans in its entirety – they redeemed themselves(slightly) in the encore with if I recall Roundabout and Yours is no Disgrace.
I saw Ralph McTell a few years ago – he was brilliant, by the way – and was pretty surprised when he did *that* song. I’d have thought he’d have put it to bed years ago.
(not the theme from Tickle on the Tum, btw)
There are those who expect nothing else from him…
Would that Mr Thompson didn’t feel obliged to play that song about a motorbike every time.
Yes that one came to mind when I posted this. Interestingly I have seen many of his gigs where he hasn’t played Beeswing which I think is a better song and amongst RT fans the one that is held in equal reverence.
He didn’t play it at his 70th birthday epic gig at the Royal Albert Hall (which Hubert and I both attended).
True but I suppose there was a lot to fit in and you always need an exception.
I didn’t catch Mark Knopfler on his most recent and possibly final world tour in 2019, but I’ve seen lots of fan footage and Sultans was not included.
From what I’ve seen, I reiterate.
It hinged the set for decades as the first half climax.
@Beezer I did see that last tour and he did comment about the song before he played it. He said that people asked if he got tired of playing it and he said no he didn’t. I am not entirely sure I believe him.
It hardly fits in with his solo stuff so unless he enjoys playing for nostalgic reasons it doesn’t chime.
He did play it occasionally then.
Some of the YouTube footage comments were tinged with a ‘whither Sultans?’ vibe.
He has played it every time I have seen him. The other near constant is Romeo and Juliet but I have seen him leave that out.
Don’t think he played it at the 2019 Birmingham NEC Show – which was a shame
Thats odd – I was at that show and it is theine where he made the comment -unless I am going mad
Setlist FM is your friend
Well I obviously have some sort of memory failure. He must have made those comments on the previous tour He didnt play it in Birmingham on that tour nor at any other night on the tour. It does however make mockery of the comments he made.
Costello ALWAYS seems to play “Pump it Up”. At least he does when I see him!
@duco01 and he nearly always ends with Peace Love and Understanding which I guess is a few bob for his mucker Nick Lowe every night.
I read in interview with a recentish line up of Deep Purple a few years ago, and whichever band member it was got asked if they would ever leave Smoke in the Water out of the set. His response was that it would be daft not to use a song which reliably sent audiences nuts like a button had been pushed.
Alternative Ulster and Suspect Device are permanent fixtures in Stiff Little Fingers set list.
Jake Burns once said that no matter how much he might not want to play those songs, he considers how fed up Mick Jagger might be with playing Satisfaction, considers the possibility that there might be someone in the audience who has never heard those tracks, and the crowd pretty much expect it.
Depeche Mode last performed People are People live at the 101 concert at the Pasadena Rosebowl on 18th June 1988. I guess that concert was the turning point of their career.
The one they can’t leave out is Never Let Me Down Again. Which was not a big hit single at all – but an absolute corker of a song live.
“Interestingly…” the song was originally called Never Let Me Down but this clashed with Bowie’s single of the same name at the same time, so Depeche Mode added “again” at the end.
Obviously very few come near your knowledge and love for Depeche Mode but if I ever went to see them I would me mightily miffed if they didn’t play Personal Jesus.
Me too! It’s been an ever-present since 1989 along with Enjoy the Silence. They did leave out Just Can’t Get Enough for a very long time (about 20 years) but they have made their peace with it now, seemingly. It’s an enjoyable, happy song that raises the roof – so why not?
And they could attract a whole new younger audience by mashing it up with Baby Shark.
The Undertones play Teenage Kicks. But in the middle of the set. Though last time I saw them they played it again at the end.
They didn’t play Teenage Kicks when I saw them back in the early eighties. At the time, I remember finding that a bit odd and rather disappointing as it was one of my favourites. It never really occurred to me that they might not like it as much as I did.
Was going to mention The Undertones. Saw them four weeks ago and it was back in the middle of the set.
Saw them supporting Elvis C in a marquee at Galway Arts Festival three or four years back. They promptly proceeded to blow away my very low expectations and I ended up enjoyed them more than i did EC. FWIW, they played TK in the middle of the set and again at the end
I have seen Mark Knopfler live once and he didnt play Sultans of Swing.
Van Morrison used to avoid the “hits”, he is probably contractually advised to do so now judging by the enthusiasm in which he rushes through them.
Neil Young plays whatever the hell he wants, sometimes 80% unheard stuff
Bob Dylan’s latest setlist (last night):
Watching the River Flow
Most Likely You Go Your Way and I’ll Go Mine
I Contain Multitudes
False Prophet
When I Paint My Masterpiece
Black Rider
I’ll Be Your Baby Tonight
My Own Version of You
To Be Alone With You
Early Roman Kings
Key West (Philosopher Pirate)
Gotta Serve Somebody
I’ve Made Up My Mind to Give Myself to You
Melancholy Mood
Mother of Muses
Goodbye Jimmy Reed
Every Grain of Sand
Thata a nice setlist
I presume that John Otway has played “Really Free” at every gig since … well, since the song was written.
House Of The Rising Sun and Bunsen Burner are regulars.
Only remember hearing Really Free when he was playing with Wild Willy Barrett.
Don’t think he played it when I saw him, despite me telling him beforehand that it was one of my first TOTP memories.
I’ve seen Otway a few times and Really Free was a staple, as was Beware Of The Flowers……
Really Free. Nope. Not at Shrewsbury Folk Festival 2010, and that was with Wild Willy Barrett.
Not premier league bands but I saw the Bluetones & they never played slight return & when I saw Chumbawumba they did not play Tubthumping.
In both cases the songs were the biggest selling records they ever had.
Pricks.
Yeah exactly. The Bluetones were a half decentish band but why be so precious? Ridiculous.
For the two albums that I kept up with the Bluetones for they had no other songs half as good as Slight Return. In fact, I literally cannot remember a single other song. Similar here is Oz with Augie March, who had a great early song (Asleep in Perfection, or A Sleep Imperfection, depending on your mood) that they then stopped playing live.
It seems a touch precious.
though in the case of the Chumbas, it would have stuck out like a sore thumb in the rest of their setlist, come the mid ’00ies.
Strangely, I think they did play it, perhaps a decade and a half ago, at my last sighting of them, despite being, by then, full blown acoustic folkies.
Alice Cooper and immediately you think of Schools Out which first appeared in his (back then it was their) show in around 1971/72 but it’s outdone by 18 which has been an ever present since around 1970.
@Bogart I saw Alice Cooper about 4 years ago and was really oissed off that he didnt play Halo of Flies.
Could have done without Schools out but no such luck
@SteveT Have seen him perform it a few times and it is always the highlight of the show, surprising it isn’t a regular.
I saw Hawkwind in Bristol on their ‘Masters of the Universe’ tour a few years ago. It was very good (imo). The best, and nicest, surprise – despite calls from the audience to the contrary – was that they didn’t play Silver Machine. Praise be, and I just wish some others would leave the obvious choices alone now and again! And anyway, the James Last Orchestra version is all anybody ever needs of that particular song (imo).
Oh, and as for the wonderful John Otway (mentioned above), I stayed on a campsite in France this year where the the owner was a dead-ringer for him. However, I knew it wasn’t him as he wasn’t wearing a white shirt/black trousers combo.
Or maybe it was him and he doesn’t wear the white shirt/black trousers combo when running the campsite.
simmo kid – did the campsite owner come over and “give you ‘eadbutts”?
If so, it probably WAS Otway….
Probably put the tent pegs in with ‘eadbutts.
I think the whole ‘we like to challenge our audience with our newer material’ while pouring scorn on the Pavlovian undercurrent of playing a major hit (see particularly ‘Creep’, ‘The Unguarded Moment’, anything that originally made their name) is a bit of a pose. I think (unless you’re Dylan or Neil Young, renowned for being obtuse) most bands want a gig to go well night-by-night, and if the audiences continue to leave dissatisfied, surely the band’s reputation as a live draw suffers.
It’s easy enough to say “We don’t play ‘Creep’ anymore” when you’re playing any number of other gems. I think bands that pride themselves on not playing their big hit usually have a whole bunch of well-regarded stuff they *do* play.
I know there’s been heated discussion here about a AWers v ‘civilians’ mindset, but I do think it’s only a very small proportion of any given audience that admire a band’s artistic principles in not playing (or ironically butchering) Smells Like Teens Spirit, say, because it was a hit. There’s something refreshing in hearing Paul Stanley questioning why they would bother recording a new album when all those songs do is indicate when it’s Ok to go to the bathroom or the bar.
Even my own C-list covers band sneers slightly at playing something like Sweet Home Alabama in the final set, but also walk off elated at the audience’s response. Who knew: band enjoys people to reacting positively to their efforts!
Thing is Creep wasn’t really that big of a hit at least in their own country, singles from the next 2 albums did way better. And Thom Yorke doesn’t like it so fair enough.
They didn’t play Paranoid Android last time I saw them. But it was still a wonderful show and they then played it on the next night in a much changed setlist in the same venue, so I wish I could have gone twice. Some bands vary what they play an awful lot, can be a problem for those who want to hear the “hit”, but great fun for those who see multiple shows.
Springsteen often leaves out huge hits, but since the band reformed he has done Dancing in the Dark most nights
Spot on. There are a lot of gig goers who aren’t trainspotting obsessives, couldn’t give a flying one about deep cuts, and just want to be …. sharp intake of breath ….. entertained. Which means playing the hits. And given how much tickets cost these days, and how reliant many bands have become on gig income, you’d have to be either highly confident in the depth of your “true fans” or just daft to leave out the better known stuff. For plenty of musicians it’s about earning a living, not expressing their muse.
Under the Milky Way by the Church. Always played I think , if grudgingly at times.
Yes, a bit of griping from SK about UTMW, though he seems to have become more magnanimous as he’s got older, appreciating that he no longer ‘owns’ it and it’s just ‘out there’, especially in Australia. Outright hostility to Unguarded Moment. I once heard he responded to a punter’s requests for it by inviting them up to play it themselves while he walked off for 4 minutes, haughtily.
Hopefully Kilby has changed his tunes as I have tix for his next tour, deferred twice – “ The Church play all the hits”.
Won’t be a long gig if it’s just the hits !
I’m a fan btw.
Weird that. Unguarded Moment was their first well known song. It’s not my favourite of theirs, maybe SK doesn’t like it that much either.
For a long time, Jethro Tull would end their concerts with Aqualung and Locomotive Breath. Both classics, to be sure, but their predictable positioning and never varying arrangement made it all too tempting to bugger off after the Aqualung riff sounded out to avoid the public transport crowds.
Indeed, the fact that Tull’s setlist was limited in its ambition, with the same songs churned out over and over again, made it very easy to decide to stop going to see them (with Ian Anderson’s vocal problems not helping).
I’m not an expert on Don McLean (the singer-songwriter, not the guy who was on Crackerjack).
But I believe he ALWAYS does American Pie at his gigs.
Another way of tackling expected chestnuts is to give them a regular buff and polish. This is how Fairport get around Marty Groves, by altering the dynamic. Which can make it a thing more of anticipation rather than mere expectation.
Mind you, Neil Young has done some right royal fuck ups of Cortez. But I still resent the fact he didn’t bother at all when I saw him.
I recall Procol Harum used to loathe Whiter Shade, reading the same about the Moodies and White Satin. The former played it for the 50th anniversary tour but it was a sort of retrospective.
The comments about RT and VWL are apt, but I suspect he has played Bright Lights even more often, every time announcing it as his greatest hit, or as a medley of his greatest hit.
Expected chestnuts? It’s only November 8th…
Manics: Motorcycle Emptiness.
A Design For Life
Johann Pachelbel always had to do the Canon in D major at his gigs. The audiences DEMANDED it.
To be honest, you can’t allow your song to be used in an advert and not expect fans to then ask for it in your gigs. That Wool advert bought Pachelbel’s swimming pool.
Excellent thread theme, and one I spend too much time thinking about. Formulaic encores are one of my pet peeves. Steely Dan encores are like that (though one stays for their closing coda, which is often better, viz their cover of the theme from “Last Tango In Paris”: crickey!). Prog fans need not see their faves do “Roundabout”, “I know what i like”, and “21st Century Schizoid Man” again. I’d rather slip away early. In a prog gig, the penultimate set song is typically a lengthy opus that shows them at what the fans and band think their best (I know…). Then they do the hit, so getting away before the rush (hah!) makes sense.
I understand the dilemma; civilian fans want the hits, true fans want deep cuts, the band wants to do some new: the band is sick of the same-old same-old, while the band pragmatist realises it paid for their swimming pool and the audience will get excited in a way “a track from out new album” doesn’t. I’ve been to gigs when every track is a hit, more or less, and it can be delightful (e.g., Madness, ‘Sprout, Stones). Bands are often artisans rather than artists, and the style grew out if popular entertainment and folk songs people can sing along to. Muscle memory means the well-known songs can be played without too much thought, but I wonder how The Specials feel when they play “Gangsters” for the couple of thousandth time?
Motorhead changed their setlist radically in 1983, when Brian Robertson joined the band. Out went the “classics”, in came all the new album. Didn’t last long. The new setlist or Robertson.
I think there’s a good thread to be had about “Metal bands that went mad in the early 80s”. Kiss and Black Sabbath would be there with The Elder and Born Again respectively, but I’m not sure anyone sabotaged their career as effectively as Motorhead. I think they had three top 10 hits in 1980. Huge.
Bands are in the entertainment business, and few acts can get away with “challenging” their audience. without their appeal becoming more selective. Better to take the audience with via gradual evolution if the artistic muse is shifting. Genesis, Depeche Mode, and Marillion certainly did. Though one might see Bob Dylan as a person who has really pushed it with unrecognisable hits, I saw the Earls Court “cabaret” shows in 1978 where an endless run of well-known tracks were mostly played pretty straight, and a reggae “Don’t think Twice” was seen as a shocker at the time. Reworking the old and well-established is a good compromise. I think the best version of “Roundabout” I’ve heard by Yes was an “unplugged” version on the 2004 tour.
Wilco once or twice played their entire catalogue over 4 or 5 nights at a Chicago residency. I wish I had been there. Not really a band with any hits but they have cloud pleasers that they normally play every night except for these special occasions.
They also do special sets at their Solid Sound festival. First night has been a covers set, acoustic, albums in full and last time karaoke! 2nd night is more traditional but with no repeats from night 1
California Stars a staple. Impossible Germany also.
IG definitely for a “normal show”, California Stars not always played, but often
Prince didn’t play any of the recognised hits on his 1995 Ultimate/Gold Tour, in the middle of his dispute with Warners. To be fair he had made this clear prior to the tour, and (imo) to his credit he stuck to it. The shows heavily featured the as-yet-unreleased (due to said dispute) Gold Experience album, along with deep cuts and ‘serious’ fan favourites. It was one of the best performances I saw him give.
I saw that tour. Testament to Prince. How many artists can leave out a dozen gold standard greatest hits, yet still be outstanding?
Kate Bush. Before the Dawn tour. There were many who were disappointed that she didn’t do Wuthering Heights. There were many who didn’t even notice its absence.
She didn’t do anything from her first 4 albums, but did play arguably her 2nd biggest hit Running Up That Hill, together with nearly all the album.
Sigh. Kate Bush. She really needs to play live again and do a proper tour to give us all a chance to see her. One of my dream gigs that I fear will never happen.
Pretty sure that isn’t going to happen. I do think there is the chance of more gigs in the future though, but she is an enigma
No one ever goes to a Lynyrd Skynyd gig wondering what the encore will be.
And a Blue Oyster Cult show without “Reaper” is highly unlikley, although I have a bootleg tape of a fan funded event where the band agreed to let the fans choose the set list, and staples like “Reaper”, “Cities On Flame” and “Godzilla” were all hoofed.
Owen Paul and Chesney Hawkes still do the 80s Deely Bopper nostalgia circuit – the question is once they’ve played their hit, what else do they pad their sets out with?
Why, an everyone-onstage cover of Tap 2’s mighty Jazz Odyssey of course
I saw John Farnham at an 80s Rewind Festival thing – he did just that, play the hit ((You’re The Voice) and then off. John Parr and Wang Chung fared slightly better with 2 songs each
I have never been to one of those 80s nostalgia circuit shows at Butlins but I assume each act plays one or two hits and then they’re off? I can’t imagine Limahl treating the crowd to new one.
Limahl doesn’t need any others – his one is neverending.
Wasn’t there a Word podcast with the ever-delectable Ms Grogan, and she confirmed that was indeed what happened?
Probably like the 60s package tours with 4 or 5 bands doing 20 minutes and the headliner doing a half hour?
It must be especially difficult for one-hit wonders… much as I love Fountains Of Wayne, I was annoyed when I saw them and they tossed off Stacey’s Mom in a different arrangement (semi-acoustic bossa nova) that only lasted a minute or so…
… and not that he was a one-hit wonder, but I believe Scott Walker early in his solo career would do all the Walker Brothers’ hits as a medley to get them out of the way.
Marc Almond often does themed tours that means he can skip the Soft Cell hits, and he spent a long time avoiding Tainted Love (though he seems fine with it these days), but Say Hello Wave Goodbye has been his staple set-closer for a long, long time.
Quite right too. As I think Dr Johnson said, “a man that is tired of Say Hello Wave Goodbye is tired of life”.
The obvious exception to the rule that no one here has yet mentioned is, of course, Christmas songs.
Unless you go to see Roy Wood. He played “that song” in September, I think.
Saw The Pogues in May once and they did “that song”, in fact Kirsty MacColl joined them on stage for it.
I saw Roy Wood perform it at Cropredy one August joined on stage by Santas and snowmen if I recall correctly. It was some years ago.
Hate to tell you this, but those snowmen will have melted by now.
I saw him one autumn at Liverpool University. He did not do that song but played a pile of stuff that I did not recognise. Much later I found out he had done a bunch of rarely played Move songs that would have had the internet melting down, had it existed …
I don’t know if he always played it, but I saw Chuck Berry in the 90s. 1 hour set. At least 10 minutes of which was My Ding-a-ling. Why Chuck, why?
Because he likes long shit?
(one for the coprophile fans there)
I think the only way you can get away without any criticism if you fail to play your most well known song(s) is to play full albums. I’ve seen several Sparks gigs where they haven’t played ‘This town…’ but we all knew that when we bought the tickets.
With most albums being about 45 minutes, it allows for a run-through of said platter and then an interval – and then about an hour of other songs, usually hits. When Gary Numan did it with The Pleasure Principle, I was on cloud nine.
A few times Sparks have done two albums instead….. and if course on their 21 albums in 21 nights season, they had a support band, then did the album of the night. The encore was generally the b sides of the singles from the album.
Normally however, they do so a best of in the second half.
Even at his most irascible Lou always played Sweet Jane and Rock n Roll
I think Joe Jackson usually finds the right mix – some new, one or two unexpected covers and the rest well-known songs , many with new arrangements. That keeps the casual punter happy and also serves to keep it fresh and interesting for fans. Steppin’ Out usually played but each tour has a fresh arrangement.
When I saw him a few years ago he did the original arrangement live and showed how they (he) did it using original equipment where appropriate. Was great,
Wouldn’t be so great taking that approach with Scott Walker’s The Drift… What with all that heat from the lights …
Pork kebabs available at concession stand following the show?
Well, Solomon Burke used to sell hotdogs during the intervals of his own shows. To be fair he wasn’t actually grilling them with raw soul power during the act.
Hope you suffer no regrets as a result of eating one of Scott’s kebabs the morning after the show.
A mate of mine saw Chesney Hawkes, the absolute definition of a one-hit wonder, play at a uni gig. According to my mate – who is a decent/honest cove – Chesney said, “You want to hear it, don’t you? Nah, I’m not playing it!” He just did covers, apparently.
He’s not the one and only to have done that.
One of our number did a quite phenomenal review of a pub gig by Owen Paul on here – I’m not sure if he did his hit or not, so this intervention is of limited use, putting it mildly.
Ahhhhem.
So, then…this comment about Owen Paul’s hit can be one of those ones we deem to be a waste of time?
If it is, it’s the one I like the best.
(puffs out cheeks)