I know, who knew that the Pussy Hitmakers would behave in such a manner? I am shocked. Shocked.
In the story we learn that a 24 year old woman contacted a woman who helps fans gain access to parties with Rammstein’s singer. She was horrified to discover that these parties were to facilitate sex. She declined to have sex with Tillmans, who it seems, acted like a bit of a dick but who is not accused of rape or sexual assault. She felt funny after a couple of drinks though. But nothing untoward happened other than a touring rock star didn’t get laid with her. Presumably he did with someone else.
I am old and crap and cynical. But do young music fans really honestly think that bands have these systems set up because they are lovely people who just like to throw parties to make their fans feel special? I mean really? I mean I am neither 24 or a woman, but were I either and I found myself backstage at a Rammstein gig, I’d have a vague idea why…
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/06/german-band-rammstein-accused
An old story. One should not blame the victim, and rich and powerful people with access to drink and drugs have been known to be assholes. Civilians invited into these circles should realise they may not be there for their scintilating wit or as they are a fan, and due dilligence / situational awareness for risk is required.
No-one should assume the right, in whatever context, to sexual relations without the consent of the other party. If spiking drinks has occurred as alleged in this situation, the ability to consent is seriously compromised. The scenario here is also indicative of power imbalance and gender bias. Are we to assume that if any males are invited backstage, they would also be ripe for sexual assault?
The premise of the OP seems to be an update of the old “dressed like that, she was asking for it” trope.
I think @ganglesprocket was suggesting that she should have known better and I tend to agree with him.
I am more concerned that anyone would think there music is worth listening to.
This was the song that drew me in.
An interesting presentation of masculinity and vulnerability.
It became quickly clear that they very frequently seem to cut close to the edge of what is acceptable in terms of social mores of sex, violence and body politics, with what I had thought was an artistic stance of observation and commentary through videos with fat body suits, nakedness, etc, rather than an immersion in taboo areas. Now, as with many who start from irony, the jump into full fledged embracing of such attitudes seems more fraught.
Please. She was tested afterwards and her drink was not spiked according to the article. And given that a young adult woman contacted another woman who casts parties for a sleazy rock star, I would suggest that it was naive at best and deluded at worst not to have an inkling as to why this would be happening. Technically speaking that means she went to him at first. Yes there is a power imbalance, but the intentions were made clear enough without literally saying “groupies wanted for sleazy old singer” in a social media post. You don’t walk into an obviously sleazy situation of your own volition then get to complain that its sleazy.
Re. »… indicative of power imbalance and gender bias. Are we to assume that if any males are invited backstage, they would also be ripe for sexual assault?«
Considering that half of the Rammstein personnel is either openly gay or crossdressers, I assume that gender bias is the last thing you can blame them for.
I wasn’t aware of that, but it’s the same principle re. the assumption that sex is the price of admission.
The spiking allegation is the real serious bit. Definitely illegal behaviour which deserves punishment if proven.
Agreed that young women invited backstage to “party” should already have some inkling of what might be required of them by such guys. If impressionable young girls (as opposed to young women) are being invited to party then that is a whole other area of contention.
The spiking allegation is the serious allegation but a negative urine sample suggests it is a questionable claim.
Someone felt funny after a couple of drinks?
Come on we can do better than that. My wife feels funny after one drink which is why she avoids alcohol.
Two glasses of Cab Sauv and Madame Reynard turns psycho. No illegal drugs or criminal intent required on my part.
Now you may very well consider me a card-carrying member of the wokerati, but I think a 24 year old woman should be able to take the opportunity to meet a favourite artist without the expectation that she will sleep with them.
The Instagram account she contacted literally talked about “casting” parties. I’m sorry but the intentions are as clear as a bell as far as I can see here.
She may well have been naive or misunderstood, or both. It still seems odd to go out to bat for the sleazy 60 year old rock star trying to arrange trysts with girls young enough to be his granddaughter.
I don’t think anyone here is “going out to bat” for him.
I think he’s a despicable piece of human garbage, personally.
But adult women taken in by such spot-it-a-mile-off-obvious sleaziness don’t get a lot of my sympathy.
Which seems barely distinguishable – if at all – from victim blaming. It looks like you’re saying the naive are fair game.
It’s all very well the likes of us deploring such vile conduct and quite rightly calling it out, but the reality is that some “artists” continue to do this stuff because star-struck fans enable them to.
We are not living in an ideal world where misogyny has been eradicated yet. I’m not very convinced we’re even moving towards it.
I think the keyword is not »artists«, it’s »money«. There are similar things in the corporate world of banks, business and advertising, where certain »business meetings« and »get-togethers« are organised and everyone who’s invited knows that it’ll probably involve the services of an escort agency, and/or what’s expected of him or her.
“But do young music fans really honestly think that bands have these systems set up because they are lovely people who just like to throw parties to make their fans feel special?”
Honest answer; people routinely overestimate their musical heroes as human beings. See this very blog for many examples.
Obviously, consenting adults are free to do what they want. The three troubling aspects of the article are the drink spiking allegation, the suggestion that whatshischops got angry when the lady who’d been procured for him did not want sex and the suggestion that another woman regained consciousness to find him on top of her.
It sounds like the first of those three allegations may have been debunked. No idea about the other two. He sounds like a real dickhead, at minimum, but then maybe that should simply be priced in with rock stars, per the gist of the OP.
I am with those who think that “casting” could have be construed in a different way, that also seems to be the term from the employee (?) who was organising it. I think plenty of fans would be happy to go to private parties with their heroes without necessarily thinking that meant that bodily fluids were expected to be exchanged.
Surely the good news (speaking of the father of a daughter of similar age) is that nowadays this kind of behaviour gets called out.
20 years ago it would be the accepted norm.
Really?
Well, alright, maybe 40 years ago. 50, definitely.
I’m with Jim on this. Just because a bunch of mature blokes aren’t surprised at the predatory nature of a rock star doesn’t mean that everyone over the age of 20 should be similarly wise. And, frankly, he is clearly a copper bottomed shitbag for this kind of stuff. She called him out on it. Good for her.
This!
Well said, Lee!
Any other response is disgraceful victim blaming.
Pure coincidence of course that the big Rammstein tour started last week in Germany. National newspapers apparently are deeply disappointed that their reporters didn’t witness the widely expected empty halls (the gigs are all sold out). I wonder if there’s any backstage parties this time around…?
You can, of course, be wildly popular and still be an unpleasant, predatory rock star. The same thing seems to be the case in politics, tv and film. It is what power facilitates.