Sorted my room of stuff out finally after 24 years of living here. CDs and Books neatly shelved, CD player back working, new speakers sounding fantastic but I would like to play some of my (mainly) 70s and 80s vinyl.
What would the wonderful people on here recommend? And what do you use? Budget £200-£350
Many thanks in advance.
My usual response is “Buy a Rega, and if you can’t buy a Rega, buy a Pro-ject”.
Supplemental questions:
What amp do you have? Does it have a phono input (i.e. input suitable for a record player cartridge)? If not, you might need to budget for a separate phono stage.
Do you have a lot of singles? Changing speed from 33 to 45 on some Regas or Pro-jects is a faff.
Some of the Technics 1210 clones (with push-button speed switching and built-in phono stage) are very good. Minibreakfast is very happy with her Audio Technica.
P.S. About to take Offspring out for driving practice, back in about an hour.
PPS. Rega range here: https://hifilounge.co.uk/product-category/brands/rega/turntables-rega/
I have an Audio Technica. It’s ace.
I have a Chiddinghurst Fremsley – but I can’t get the valves any more. 😿
….you call for it when you don’t know where it is. “Fremsley, Fremsley, Fremsley!”
“That’s a nice name for a sparrow” might be a legitimate remark here – but what above has brought Ms Breakfast out of hiding after all this time when even “which character on Sesame Street do you most resemble?” failed to produce a response…
I gave MiniB a prod*, to check which model of AT she had.
(*) No sniggering at the back, please.
Or the front.
She is. It’s fab, sturdy, and you can upgrade the headshell and stylus in an idiot -proof manner if and when you so wish.
Steve knows his stuff, listen to him.
Your last sentence is an Afterword t-shirt.
With “Until he dulls you to sleep” on the back.
I bought a Project and have been very happy with it other than if you close the lid whilst playing there is mega vibration picked up by the cartridge which is annoying. Answer is leave it open but it’s irritating. My old Duel II in the music room doesn’t have that problem and that has a rubber band as a replacement belt and works a treat. Also semi-automatic which is handy. Get a 40 year old Duel. 🤔
My parents have an old Duel and have been happy with it for years…they also have an old A & R Cambridge A60, which I had serviced and recapped for them about a decade ago. It’s not cutting edge, but it does sound very good. Their musical diet is classical/older jazz vocal (Ella, Frank, etc)/opera & oratorio/Johnny Cash, so they don’t need transients sharp enough to scalp the listener.
Useless trivia: I was working at Arcam when the last A60 went down the production line. I soldered the big power supply caps onto the board, and everybody involved signed the inside – get that, Ivan.
The final A60 customers got a Willy-Wonka style tour of the factory, and got to watch their new purchase being built, tested and packed.
Superb! This is what your adoring public want to hear about…
My workbench was switched over to making the original Black Box DAC. It was a whole lot less appealing to look at (but very clever inside).
Like the new avatar, btw.
Well, I’ll be your mirror, Twang – reflect what you are (in case you don’t know).
You know how it goes – I’ll keep it for a bit then go back to the Greenslade man…
Thanks, btw…
I use a Rega P3, and my reserve deck (stashed in the loft) is my dad’s old Sansui SR212 – belt drive, speed change without lifting the platter, and auto lift off at the end of a side – it’s in pristine condition and a lovely thing; I keep thinking I ought to build a shelf for it in my den, except there’s no wall room left cos of all the CD shelves. Bah!
As I type, there’s one on eBay for twenty sovs – someone’d be daft not to.
Ohhhhh what a beauty……Stop this cavalcade of sensuality!
I’m plugging it straight into my Q Acoustics M20 speakers so an in built phono amp or as you say a separate amp would be needed. And yes I have quite a few singles so a push button speed change would be nice.
The M20 speakers have the “Q Active Control Hub” wireless transmitter thingy, don’t they? In which case, the Aux input can accept line level (e.g. from a CD player or tape deck) or MM (Moving Magnet cartridge from a turntable), selectable by the MM/Line Level level switch round the back.
Scroll down to “Q Active Control Hub” here:
https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/activerange?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxrafyf_k-gIVmpntCh0VmwQqEAAYASAAEgIv_vD_BwE#intro
I’d go for the Audio Technica AT-LP120XUSB turntable. A Technics 1200 clone, it comes with push-button speed selection, a switchable built-in phono stage, and even USB (of strictly ‘functional’ quality) for recording. Currently £244 at the Dodgers. It’s what MiniB has (along with many of my pals).
Rega products offer lifetime support (just ask Foxy) and hold their value well, but you’d be looking at closer to £1000 for an audiophile-grade deck with push-button speed change.
That one was probably top of my list but you know what its like the more you investigate the more confusing it gets!
Thanks everyone for your advice. I’ll let you how it goes.
I started cleaning up my vinyl at the start of the year and upgraded my entire system a few months back.
The deck I bought was an Audio Technica belt drive which cost about £200. No complaints so far
The Audio Technica LP3 looks like what you need. £229 from Richer Sounds.
The LP3 is a bit “mid-80s stack-system”. The LP5 is much better, but the AT-LP120 is better still (and cheaper). Why not let Technics do all the R&D for decades, then just make a clone of it?
‘a bit “mid-80s stack-system” ‘
Ooh, that’s harsh. A bit edgy for “the dull one”.
(You’re not wrong, though.)
The LP5 is a curious beast – essentially a belt-drive Technics, styled to look less like a DJ workhorse.
Best thing AT did was buying the tools from Technics when the 1210 was pensioned off.
How many LPs, etc do you have, @ip33 ? And are you going to continue buying more?
If you have thousands of the critters, it might be worth nudging your budget up, just a little…
Couple of thousand I would think.
Big investment in vinyl – maybe worth a slightly higher investment in the turntable?
Maybe the Rega Planar 2 or the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon EVO (you’ll notice I’m in thrall to Fenton…)
Both a shade under £500.
I think I’m likely to be an occasional vinyl user, I’ll mainly be playing CDs (hearsy I know!) hence the budget.
Fair enough…and not heresy at all. I think I’m about 50:50 myself, I have no problem with CDs.
Hearsay? I have that album inherited from the kids (honest)
Inherited? Shouldn’t that be…. Unherited?
Useless fact: the fragrant Betty Boo wrote That Song. Got a Grammy for it, and everything. I’d rather hear her version, though. Why am I now thinking of tight shiny silver shorts?
Because you’re wearing them. I wouldn’t mind, but they’re mine.
He could at least have let you take them off first – the waistband cannae tekk it Captain!!!
“I think I’m likely to be an occasional vinyl user”, I said that to a mate of mine around 10 years ago when I decided to start buying LPs again. I also stated that I’ll only buy my 50 favourite albums on LP. Hmmm…today I have around 2000LPs. I’m still also buying CDs and have to keep finding new shelving space for them. I love it.
Followed the same path at the start of this year. Very glad I did, too.
Nothing better than getting a great bargain – my fave thus far. Is a Townes van Zandt double LP Best Of for £17
I don’t have a problem, either, and I can give it up any time I want to…
I got an Evo earlier this year. It really is a lovely bit of kit, records sound great etc… Worth the extra money (I hope) although I’ve no idea how long these things last. My previous player was a technics that lasted well over 20 years, hopefully the Evo will do a similar amount of time.
I’m following the Fentonsteve school of longevity – I’m still using the turntable/arm combo that I bought in the mid 1980s. I’ve had a few cartridge changes…
What’s your Brita filter got to do with it?
….as Tina once so nearly sang
You’d have to ask Peter Belt, I just do what I’m told…
…something to do with the effect of the ion exchange resin in the cartridge upon the dipole moment of the water in the jug, in the fridge, in the kitchen: and the way that this small electrical change affects the sound in my office upstairs…
Of course, I have a crocodile clip attached to the Brita water jug.
Sounds like you need to stick half a Post-it note under one foot of your amp.
I once met Mr Belt. I couldn’t work out if he was taking the piss, or was genuinely deranged.
Peter Belt? Is that his real name? it sounds like the assumed name of someone from one of the specialist areas of, er, “the industry”.
I must admit, I assumed he was a snake-oil salesman with a Big Idea for the gullible with too much in their wallets. “Crocodile clip with a wire attached – just 50 of your English pounds, step right up ladeees & gemmun…”
I’d be interested to know what he was worth…
Another very satisfied Rega owner here. I bought one of their 2017 Record Store Day units. I’d been going to buy an RP1, but the RSD has some of the bits of an RP3 and was cheaper.
Before I bought my Linn, I used to own a Rega Planar 2, which I sold to my school pal. It’s still going strong, 37 years later, despite being up his loft for years. He sent me a little unboxing video during lockdown.
My only minor niggle is the speed change malarky of removing the platter. If you want push-button speed change, that means either buying a Planar 3 (£660) or upgrading a Planar 1 or 2 with an P3 motor kit (£150) and a Neo PSU (£260).
You’ve got to really like playing singles to part with an extra 400 quid.
Before I bought my PT, I had a Revolver in red crackle finish – with a Pig and a Starmat. Part of the design was that the pulley (for changing the belt from 33 to 45 was at the back of the plinth, not under the platter. So no switch, but ergonomically better than the Planar 1…🙂
Revolver, Pig and Starmat sound like Maverick’s mates in Top Gun.
True…it gets a decent review by modern standards, with the downsides being very predictable in the context of the 1980s. It was my first proper turntable so I’m naturally biased (SWIDT?).
https://www.hifinews.com/content/revolver-turntable
I’ve used a few different Pro-ject TTs down the caff, and they all have accessible pulleys. I’m not great fan of the budget Pro-jects, though, as their resale value drops like a stone and their arms are, well, no Rega. A Pro-ject Classic is a great package though, much like a cheap Linn (Ariston/Dunlop/etc.)
A S/H Rega Planar 3 costs almost as much as a new one, and lasts a lifetime. An investment, like buying a Rolls Royce car – costs more to start with, but you never need to upgrade.
The Rolls Royce analogy is, of course, the reason for buying an LP12 or a Gyrodec or a Funk Firm Vector V or a Planar 10 or (cont. page 94…)
Back in the day (early 80s) I bought a Rega Planar 3 from my local dealer. 1 year later I got what I’d paid for it in p/ex against a new Linn LP12 with the original Basik arm & cart.
I started there, too, and swapped out the arm and cartridge after a couple of years.
My LP12 is now a bit like Trigger’s broom – I think the arm is one of the few original bits left.
Playing singles tends to be a job lot thing. “ A singles night”. I dont have many times where I am chopping and changing.
My view is so long as the turntable itself is functional keeps speed and looks ok I prefer to put more money into the cartridge.
Do you squares not have autochangers?
Get with it, daddio!
I have an autochanger – when the shellac finishes, I ring a small handbell and my butler turns it over…
My first record player had an autochanger. The terrifying SMASHHH between records was usually substantially louder than the records themselves.
There’s a joke here about lining up a load of Test Department singles which is too tedious even for me.
Arf!
I still have my mum’s mid-1960s all-valve auto-changer Dansette . The price of vinyl as it is, and the knitting needle groove-gouger stylus, means I dare not use it. That and the ‘sparky’ mains lead.
Adding my vote for Rega. Had one for about five years. Nothing bad to say about it and too much that’s good to list.
This is a very helpful thead. I bought an entry level ProJect a few years ago ( I think it was a Primary then) and its fine as a starter, and sounds good enough for me through a budget system with a Cambridge amp and pre-Amp into Q Acoustics speakers but is very basic – the external band around the turntable, and the weight hanigng on fishing wire off a hook are extremely easy to knock out of place, at least by Mr Clumsy here.
Budget means you have a penny blutacked to the stylus end rather than a 20p.
I have a pro- ject the Rega copy as Fenton reminds us.
Changed the belt serviced it once. Never missed a beat – literally.
I still have a lot of trouble seeing how much difference the turntable makes beyond the quality of the cartridge which is, to me, pivotal.
If it spins at the correct rotation, tracks well, can accomodate a good cartridge and you cant hear the motor then beyond that it seems to be diminishing returns in terms of costs.
A few things I would look at if I were to upgrade , and at 65 and declining hearing, I doubt i will are
Built in stroboscope to measure speed and its corollary Speed adjustment – nice to have , so that lends to direct drive.
The cueing lever – some are shit. Some too fast, too slow or seem to not go down straight.
A light that shines on where the stylus drops. Handy.
Cartridge headshell. The project has a solid tone arm. Nightmare changing cartridges. I broke a wire and cost me a bit getting it rewired. Also with a separate headshell you can have a different, probably cheaper, cartridge to play records that are a bit battered. Singlesfor example.you just unwind one headshell and wind in the other. Simples. You could also switch berween cartridges with different sonic qualities. If you could be bothered.
Auto return. I have never had fully automatic but I do have a semi return turntable for when you just cant be arsed getting up or if you leave the room and forget the things is playing. At 65 I expect this to be increasingly handy. Fully auto – i just dont trust the mechanics to remain smooth and soft for the lowering over the long term. Taking off is different – the process is far more robust.
Anti skate. I hear you re fiddley though once done it is done. You rarely readjust. And there is something elegantly transparent ( TMFTL) about the way it does its job compared to some dial you adjust.
Aah, this is where dull old-fashioned Engineering comes in.
As Roy Gandy (Mr Rega) says, an ideal bearing has zero friction and zero play (wobble). Sadly, the mythical bearing with zero friction and zero play does not exist, so everything is a compromise.
The job of the motor is to turn the platter whilst making zero noise and zero vibration. The job of the main bearing is to turn the platter whilst making zero noise, zero vibration, zero friction and zero play. The arm has at least two bearings (usually four) – left/right, and up/down – with the same requirements.
Then you don’t want the arm or platter to “ring” (resonate). Or the platter to vary in speed, even fractionally.
A turntable isn’t ‘just’ anything, it is a whole load of Engineering compromises, which is why the perfect turntable does not exist and why there are so many different approaches to the problem.
I can definitely see the appeal of a Technics 1210, though – adjustable speed, strobe, removeable headshell, instant start, push-button speed select, etc.
Yes last time I consulted Prof Fenton that was the recommendation I think, for me, the pro ject will be replaced by another semi auto – in due course.
@fentonsteve
Dull, old-fashioned engineering…
With your engineering boots on (and trying to adopt a neutral view of Linn!) – which of these three do you find the most interesting/most successful idea from an engineering/physics/materials science point of view:
Original Linn/Ariston RD11
Original PT
Original Townshend Rock
*Puff of smoke as Fentonsteve dulls himself to death*
By all means, take your time and have a think. I’m sure I’m not the only contributor to this thread who might be interested…🙂
I bought a pro-ject Essential 3 – cheaper than the Debut Carbon. It was cheap in the sale and had a good quality Ortofon cartridge Its fine as things go; changes from 33 to 45 using a button rather than re-engineering the drive belt; also has a built in phono-amp (which i dont need). It does seem a bit flimsy , however, and I do not like the lid (an optional extra I think), which keeps falling off for no good reason. It also does not have the auto-arm-lift which I know audiophiles think is a good thing – but I often wake to the grinding. sound of my expensive stylus against the central paper label of the record.