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  3. I am going to risk being shot down in flames here but this article is complete tosh.
    Laura Snapes has form, complaining about Mark Kozalek because he upset her with his take on humour. The complainants in this article have made ‘allegations’ about Ryan Adams and both are ex partners. Do they have an axe to grind? Maybe but for Laura Snapes to assume it is gospel is lazy journalism and smacks of her pursuing her own agenda. Then to say that people in the industry turn a blind eye to Adam’s behavious because they are all the same is just plain nonsense.
    This standard of journalism is appalling.

  4. I have heard before on the grapevine that he’s not a very nice man, but have never had any dealings with myself.

    He’s an artist for whom I have a blindspot, but he’s not the only one.

  5. @fentonsteve I am somewhat ambivalent to him. His work with Whiskeytown was excellent as were his first two albums. Since then he has been patchy with some okay stuff and an equal amount of dross.
    As an individual though he intrigues me as he seems to have a self destruct button which is why I have just bought his biography which I will look forward to reading.
    I see from lunchtime BBC news that his latest release has been delayed and that 3 companies associated with him have dropped him. All based on allegations?
    This is what I have a problem with – shouldn’t people refrain from knee jerk judgements and wait until the correct investigation has taken place?

  6. Thought the Laura Snapes article was tosh but the NY Times one in all its depth and gory detail is just impossible to ignore. Not surprised the album’s release is being “delayed” as no doubt are the other two (!) he has in the pipeline.
    No hiding the fact I am a great fan of his, to my mind his range and vision makes him one of the finest artists I know. I was beside myself with excitement re Big Colors especially as the two tracks already released sound so good. Now I have no idea what to think, the allegations are just too numerous. Even allowing for the fact he really is a tortured soul ( maybe one day I will relate here some of the story I’m aware of re Love Is Hell) this may indeed spell the end of his career. So sad – not least of course for the women involved

  7. The statements look really strong and his “apology” was pathetic. Looks pretty bad for him and the FBI are apparently investigating the under age online relationship where he allegedly exposed himself. I have his first 3 solo albums, gave up after that, I am poised to burn them.

  8. One way to clear your shelves, @dai. If you need more space, please let me tell you some stories about others you have liked. And as for books, hey, you needn’t bother ever buying again. Build that bonfire high. Art, yup, that too. I see a lot of space coming round to your place.

  9. I don’t think much of his music apart from the odd track so nothing’s at stake here for me. Not been impressed by the numerous stories of his dickhead onstage behaviour/general boorishness.

    Whether or not these allegations are eventually proven, I can’t say I’m surprised associated companies have dropped him and that his album is delayed. This stuff is too serious to risk the good name of their businesses on. If he comes out of the other side exonerated he’ll get other offers. If he doesn’t he’s sunk and they’ll be without the taint.

  10. Agree with you @MiKe_H in that the stuff is too serious. However what I strongly disagree with and what boils my piss is that these accusations are published without being proven. Someone’s career potentially wrecked on the possible ranting of an ex. Prove it first and then wreck his career.
    Its all bollox and symptomatic of the shite society we live in.

    • I believe 7 females have made allegations including one who was 14 yrs old at the time(and text messages of their relationship are apparently available). That isn’t the “ranting of an ex”. Just because you (presumably) like the guy’s music doesn’t mean you should find excuses for him.

      • @dai doesn’t matter how many people made allegations if they are allegations. You can’t be jailed for an allegation. Have already posted elsewhere that I think his music is patchy. I don’t like Cliff Richard’s music but I resented the fact that a number of people made allegations about him that were proven unfounded and effectively ruined his reputation. There are numerous examples of this – the news should be muzzled until it is proven.
        Let the FBI do their work and they can pronounce whether the allegations are factual or made up.
        Then we can all have our field day slaughtering him to our hearts content. One thing for sure I don’t pay no heed to anything Laura Snapes has to say.

        • @SteveT Hmm, it’s not as if Ryan Adams is a big star, what do these women have to gain from this? It was probably very difficult aind painful for them to come forward in the first place. He may well be a lovely misunderstood man who has done nothing wrong but 7 against 1 is pretty damning in my book.

        • Two sides to that coin.
          On the one side we have Gambo, Cliff and Roy Harper. No doubt others I don’t recall. Widely reported allegations of nasty stuff that have now been dismissed. Damage was done to their careers for sure, but all are still around and their careers are seemingly back on track.
          Allegations/rumours against Jimmy Saville for years and years but seemingly never investigated until well after his death. No damage to his career whatsoever during his lifetime, unimaginable damage done to his victims.
          It’s not a perfect system by any means but, on reflection, I’d rather the balance was on the alleged victim’s side than the other way. Newspapers will always make the most of a juicy story to sell copies and nutters and malicious people will come out of the woodwork for their 5 minutes. But it’s also a fact that reports of abuse allegations encourage genuine victims to come forward and lack of accurate reporting encourages inertia, fear of litigation by the wealthy/well-connected and sloppy/dropped investigations.
          Bad/malicious journalism without real accountability is a problem, of course, and is not limited just to these kind of matters.

          • “It’s not a perfect system by any means but, on reflection, I’d rather the balance was on the alleged victim’s side than the other way.”

            Sorry Mike, but I just can’t get onside with that. That’s the thought process (‘victim led”) that has led to police fumbles in these higher profile cases. The balance must lie with the prosecution to make its case, and the test must be “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

            It’s the old saying that better a guilty man go free than an innocent one be imprisoned. Your method seems to invert that premise.

  11. Stories of his dick-headishness are indeed legion. And I have read the NYT article which strikes me as decent responsible work.

    I reckon we are getting the initial pebbles of a forthcoming avalanche here. All I will say (hello lawyers!) is that the Bill Wyman story broke when the music industry was swimming with money. This story is breaking when the music industry is not. Previously, dickhead musicians could be protected as money spinners. Now they will not. Times have changed.

    And the simple fact is that many men become musicians to fuck women. We definately have an icky few years ahead of us.

  13. So SteveT thinks the Ryan Adams accusations are due to ‘exes with an axe to grind’ and Twang and others seem to think it’s just Guardian men-hating in a Viz ‘Student Grant’ stylee. Hmmm OK. – Bottom line for me – The scales have been weighted in male favour for hundreds of years, so it’s time for men to shut up and listen – so no matter that most of us fellas don’t behave like dickheads toward women- there’s all this malarkey now and we need to *listen*,

    The messy interactions between girls and boys in rock and roll is a massive minefield. Lennon, Bowie, Led Zep etc – all did things that would make Ryan Adams blush- but the difference here is that girls weren’t screaming at Ryan Adams or hustling to get backstage for a party with him .

    He’s not the first in the Indie world. See also MJ from Hookworms and yr man from Ducktails. What a mess. You know it would be good if these things could be talked about openly and honestly from both sides and then people could understand each other and work things out together and maybe these men could apologise to the women they hurt, change their behaviour and everyone could move on. Sadly it’s all tweets, gut reaction and trial by social media, accusations and clickbait for crappy websites – and nobody wins.

    • The Twitter feeds of some woman musicians I follow certainly seem to recognise him as a type widespread in the industry. Thea Gilmore, without making any accusations against Adams, uses the term ‘gatekeepers’ for men in positions of power who use that to offer or deny opportunities to some not in positions of power, in return for payment in their chosen currency of course.

      Kathryn Williams did mention Adams directly, and says she was disapppointed when he wasn’t open to the songwriter talk she had hoped for (because he didn’t find her attractive enough to bother with she guesses) at a gig that ended with Adams hitting on Williams’ cellist and getting punched by the promoter (it not entirely clear if the two events are connected).

    • I’m not minimising the appalling way some men (and women) behave and of course it’s completely unacceptable and should be dealt with by the numerous laws we have in place. But I really resent the suggestion that it’s all men (or women). It isn’t, and the effect of rags like the Grauniad suggesting anything other than it being a minority of people behaving appallingly is to diminish those who are genuinely affected as opposed to those taking to Twitter to moan about some bastard MAN offering to help with a heavy bag or holding the door for them.

      Happy to “listen” assuming something sensible is being said.

      • The suggestion was it’s ‘probably thousands more with similar stories about other men’ not all men and it seemed like a perfectly sensible article to me, the last paragraph being especially powerful.

        Was listening to an episode of David Baddiels Bowie podcast yesterday. They were talking about Bowie attempting to have a threeway with a 16 year old fan and her friend. This wasn’t hearsay or rumour, it was from the fans mouth (she’s a friend of Baddiel). No laws broken re: age of consent but …

        As the doctor advised, it’s time to shut up and listen.

        • @grac No laws broken re:age of consent but…..? If now laws broken what exactly are you suggesting is the problem? For the record I was offered a threeway by two women many many years ago. I declined but not because I thought it was wrong – one of them was my girlfriend at the time and I thought it would ruin the relationship.
          Do I regret it? Perhaps.
          Sexuality is powerful and complicated – we are not all the same.
          Interesting the two exes are accusing him of being emotionally manipulative and not any sexual accusation unless there is a part to this story I haven’t seen. Emotional manipulation is a trait equally applicable to women as it is to men. As far as I know it is not a crime though it is an unpleasant characteristic.
          The accusations from the underage girl are the serious issue and the one that needs to be investigated.

          • The point I was trying to make (badly) was about power. Bowie was apparantly well into his 40’s and was DAVID BOWIE! If you listen to the podcast (S3, Ep01) he actually comes out of the tale not too badly but an abuse of power occured.

  14. In this case and others like it, it’s impossible to say anything that even hints at balance without sounding like an apologist.
    But I can at least withold my condemnation until he’s convicted of something.

  15. Exactly @Lemonhope. And in answer to @Dr_Volume I know plenty of exes who rant about their significant other until those that thet are ranting to take it as gospel. My ex sister in law also started to suggest that the father of her two girls had sexually abused them. When I strongly challenged her about it as she was going to involve the police she backed down and admitted it was her way of getting back at him. She was so obsessed that he was a piece of shit that she was prepared to go to any lengths to tInt him. He wasnt a rock star and didn’t have any money so there are people out there who will stop at nothing to seek some kind of revenge.
    I don’t doubt that Adams and probably many other musicians are complete knobheads and if found guilty of the nusdeneanoees should be punished. Neither do I doubt that there are people out there who will exaggerate a past behaviour to make themselves feel better.
    Let’s wait for due process to determine the facts or shall we just revert to burning witches at the stake?

    • I know where you’re coming from and indeed the aforementioned MJ out of Hookworms pretty much had his music career terminated overnight after a tweet. Not as famous as Ryan Adams but they were getting a lot of press, the last album charted and they were about to play some 2,000 seaters. His own band were very quick to chuck him under a bus and immediately split, and more people came forward to accuse him online…but whatever he’s done this should be a matter for the West Yorkshire Police but as far as I know nobody has pressed charges or made a complaint.

      One of the arguments made quite a lot in the Hookworms case is that women don’t feel there’s any point going to the police as there is a perception they won’t listen and nothing will happen. There are lots of organisations like Women’s Aid to support women and help them resolve domestic abuse or abusive relationships, and people need care and support and proper advice .. Twitter isn’t the place to go for that!

  16. These ‘he said, she said’ situations are fraught with difficulty. The courts expect a level of proof ‘beyond reasonable doubt’. Even when there are a number of individuals describing a common modus operandi, without some forensics or other corroboration, such as texts and social media, which can work both ways, a guilty verdict is hard to achieve. Proving a false allegation is equally problematic.

    Trial by social media is another matter entirely. That doesn’t even require ‘balance of probabilities’. I can see how the media like these stories. Celebrities in a spot of bother is click bait. I can even understand the women wanting to get their story out there to see if others might come forward. However, it’s a struggle for justice to be served under these circumstances.

    Harvey Weinstein hasn’t been convicted of anything yet, but, even though I’m not close to the evidence and have never met any of the people involved, I have him hung drawn and quartered.

    I don’t have any answers but I don’t understand why people don’t report a crime to the police first? Accusers are definitely being believed these days.

  18. No one is saying that there isn’t a problem. It’s a problem that isn’t confined to the music [or ‘entertainment’] industry.
    The F.B.I. are looking into the claims against Adams – good, that would seem to me to be the proper place for these allegations to be investigated. Had that happened [rather than the press putting him on trial] at least then if he is innocent of anything illegal he would still have a career and if not then he’ll get what he deserves.
    The Pitchfork article places his alleged activities in the same context as rape, because, you know, ‘psychological abuse’ and rape [by men] are the same thing.

    • I debated that last paragraph and although my comment was technically correct with hindsight and the benefit of your link I realise I should have left it out.

    • Holy cow. There’s no punches being pulled there. A more damning account it’s hard to imagine.
      Mandy Moore was on Marc Maron this week. They touch on her marriage several times. Maron says the interview was recorded two weeks ago, so before this all broke. She comes across very well and her comments about Adams are fairly mild considering, but it’s easy to fill in the blanks now.

    • Career cancelled. I do think it’s good that people listen to victims these days, despite my love of Adams’ music. We seem to have come a long way from the days of powerful people slut-shaming Monica Lewinsky. Somehow Michael Jackson’s many accusers have never quite been believed, but maybe that will change with time.

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