I’ve recently read Ronnie Corbett’s ‘Autobiography of the Two Ronnies’, published in 2006. I recommend it – an affectionate but substantial look at the pair’s pre-show history, how the show worked, and their post-show activities related to the (by then) family entertainment institution they had created.
One aspect puzzled me, though, and it’s something I’ve heard Ronnie C state in TV documentaries and the like. The two Rons were annoyed about the early 80s ‘Not The Nine O’Clock News’ sketch ‘The Two Ninnies’ for a couple of reasons, that it was BBC comedians criticising other BBC comedians (with seemed not the done thing in those days) but mainly because – as the Rons interpreted it – they were being criticised for “using bad language”.
Ronnie C defends this at length in his book by saying the Two Ronnies only used the word ‘bloody’ three times in however many series, etc. But it seems to me that the pair were – weirdly, as it seems so obvious – missing the whole point of the ‘The Two Ninnies’ sketch: which was effectively putting IN the ‘bad language’ where the Rons had left it OUT, but with a nod and a wink.
The whole tenor of the Ronnies’ show was based around the ‘tradition’ of British seaside postcard innuendo (Barker was a keen collector of such ephemera). Their musical numbers were utterly based on it and Ronnie Barker’s monologues were full of innuendo-based spoonerisms. The whole point of the ‘Two Ninnies’ sketch – and the basis of its comedy – was that the NTNOCN guys stripped away the typical Two Rons innuendo and put in lots of the words that the Ronnies would have typically been thinly veiling in their routines.
It amazes me that the Rons just couldn’t see that. Or am I wrong?
Here’s the sketch:
I read the book when it first came out. I don’t remember him getting too fussed about Smith and Jones (is it an urban myth that they gave up after seeing that sketch, knowing they could never be funny for the next generation?)
What I do remember is his account of the increasing stage fright he felt at doing live (cabaret) shows. And back in those days the answer was a course of benzos, doled out by a doctor who is now the resident Daily Mail medical correspondent. Not surprising then that he became even worse and had a ‘bit of a turn’, eating four desserts before the shows.
Interesting how many of the ‘respectable’ entertainers had hidden drug and alcohol use.
The 4 dessert thing happened only once! He did experience a stage fright thing and took medication, but got over it after a while and continued doing cabaret etc without it.
Ronnie C’s 4 puddings versus Elton’s cocaine, vanilla ice cream, and a jar of pickled winkles (not a euphemism, I’m assuming). Compare and contrast with Keef’s perfectly baked Shepherd’s Pie and a double scotch. I think we need a rock star and comedians “dinners and munchie excess” thread.
Back in the 90s I worked at a central London video company and dealt with a projector hire for Joe Cocker at The Town And Country. His management told me he would only eat Shepherd’s Pie before a gig which they usually sourced from a local pub.
Who’s in here? No-one. It’s a joke.
My recollection is that Barker took offence whereas Corbett wasn’t bothered. I think I saw this on one of those Comedy Connections programs.
Well, as I said, he seemed to share RB’s view in the book – that it was a dig at their use of bad language. When it seems clear that its a dig at their constant use of innuendo.
Think Ronnie B was upset by it – seemed to be a quiet sensitive soul whereas Ronnie C saw it for what it was – younger generation giving the establishment a kicking. Corbett was a regular visitor to Edinburgh festival and early champion of comics like Al Murray and Harry Hill
Ronnie B infamously went up to a couple of younger comedians at BBC light entertainment party in the early 80s, said to one that he liked his work, turned to Ben Elton and ‘We don’t like you very much, I’m afraid’.
Was that a royal “we” then? Corbett was on Elton’s TV show (in the 90s?) in every episode…
No, in the book Ron C gives that anecdote and says Ron B said’ I don’t like you very much’. But then he goes on to say that Ben was a frequent guest at subsequent parties at Ron B’s house, and Ron C saluted Ben for not getting offended at what was apparently an uncharacteristic sort of remark by Ron B.
By the way, Locust – up there in the frozen north, have you had a chance to see Ben Elton’s (as writer) recent BBC situation comedy about Shakespeare called ‘Upstart Crow’? I think you’d enjoy it.
No, I haven’t seen it. Of course, I no longer own a TV and only watch SVT (Swedish public service) on demand on the computer. So if it’s been on another channel I wouldn’t know about it.
Is it a bit Blackadderish?
Don’t watch it, Locust. It was shit. Like Blackadder but cringeworthy instead of funny.
My god, wasn’t it? Made me want to demonstrate outside Media City with a placard demanding the return of my licence fee.
Indeed, and a terrible waste of a good cast.
You’d think the last 20 years would’ve taught them to avoid anything involving Ben Elton like the plague. Remarkable how abrupt and total his slide into being a zero-mirth hack was.
From the moment he first stood up at the mic.
Never ever found Ben Elton the slightest bit funny. A massive ego masking a monstrous dearth of talent.
Never rated him as a comedian, but Blackadder tho. It was pretty pony until Elton turned up.
In contrast to everything everybody else says, Loki, I enjoyed it. I thought it was fun, and cleverly written (referencing many of Will’s writing tropes and play ideas). I suppose it is *slightly* Blackadderish. I hadn’t thought about a comparison before. Certainly, it’s an ensemble piece with two ‘home’ locations – Will’s place in Stratford (with parents, wife and stroppy teenage daughter) and his flat in London (with servant and landlady’s daughter). Christopher Marlowe is a regular guest at London, and Richard Green, Master of the Queen’s Revels, is the regular bad guy.
The best bits were those which were identifiably Shakespearian, though I fear that if it were given another run that would fall by the wayside and we’d get more of Harry Enfield’s dreadful Shakespeare senior instead. Sitcoms have a tendency to move further and further away from the ‘sit’ part after the initial run.
Maybe I’m unusual here, but I detested Ben’s stand up years/persona and didn’t care for any of Blackadder till the 4th one. But I have a soft spot for his sitcoms The Thin Blue Line and The Wright Stuff plus Upstart Crow. And I don’t care if that makes me even more unfashionable/more bourgeouis than everyone supposed!
Epartez los bourgeouis!
This one started off at the furthest point from ‘comedy’ as it’s possible to get. Clever, maybe, but zero laughs.
I find the main actor (David something – can’t recall) naturally amusing. A lot of the fun is in his performance. But it looks like I’m in the minority here. Thing is, I really dislike most current comedy and avoid it all, but I caught an episode of this by chance and enjoyed it so sought out the rest. What can I say?
Well, the point of the sketch is to have a go at Barker, which it does fairly mercilessly by 1982 standards . It’s that that offended him, I expect. Also he had an ego, like a lot of comedians.
As for swearing, there’s many a stone chucked by a greenhouse-dweller. Spike Milligan had a go at The Young Ones for being crude… but have you read his war memoirs? Hello “Plunger” Bailey!
Agreed – too close to the bone for Barker, I would think, but he could hardly admit that publicly.
Yebbut the Milligan War Diaries are really really funny. Well, at least the first three were.
Currently re-re-re-re-reading the fourth and it’s still pretty funny though I agree the first three are best. “Night soil!” etc.
I haven’t read the book but is it possible that Ronnie C considered that as good a place as any to point out how they were careful not to use cuss words. He might not have been responding directly to the sketch. He’s famous for going off on tangents, after all.
As others have said Ronnie C supported new comedy and if he took offence, it didn’t stop him working with the “new’ comics. Ronnie B was a more private man, who I remember only once “breaking cover” to rubbish The News of the World on Terry Wogan’s TV show. He had retired by then, and they had sent a reporter into his antique shop with a genuinely valuable piece to see if he would offer a sneaky low price. Barker was suspicious because the NOTW reporter seemed so shifty and nervous – he offered a low price to get rid of him and then he phoned the police. Soon after, the NOTW reported that he tried to “con” a hapless customer.
If that was his shop in the Cotswolds, I bought a paperback off him, quite a rare thing, a collection of pieces from “Help!” – a US satirical magazine along the lines of Mad. It was from his own collection, and we had a very pleasant conversation about US satire, a perhaps surprising passion of his. He struck me as a very quiet and almost academic soul, totally lacking in showbiz.