So…
Roger Waters tweeted an interview (below) he gave with a German newspaper in which he makes some pretty controversial remarks, expressing his support for Putin, dissing his ex-bandmates’ support for Ukraine, denying any accusations of anti-semitism made against him and generally being his usual obnoxious self (imo).
David Gilmour’s wife, the acclaimed novelist Polly Samson tweeted her response to the interview:
“Sadly @rogerwaters you are antisemitic to your rotten core. Also a Putin apologist and a lying, thieving, hypocritical, tax-avoiding, lip-synching, misogynistic, sick-with-envy, megalomaniac. Enough of this nonsense.”
Gilmour then “liked” the tweet and himself tweeted: “Every word demonstrably true.”
Waters’ twitter account responded: “Roger Waters is aware of the incendiary and wildly inaccurate comments made about him on Twitter by Polly Samson which he refutes entirely. He is currently taking advice as to his position.”
So I’m guessing that David will not be the surprise guest appearance at Roger’s UK concerts this summer……..
I suspect you might be right. A pity, I love his surprise appearance at one of Roger’s UK concerts back in 2011:
I feel an ill-advised libel case coming on…
Let’s hope so. The recent Depp vs Heard case showed how edifying the spectacle of two multimillionaires slagging each other in court can be.
My first thought was “please not a court case”.
“My client has instructed me to say that he doesn’t mime, m’lud”
“Can’t he tell the court that himself?”
“Er….”
Silly old men
100% behind Dave here. Roger has gone mad. Supporting pretty much a literal Nazi, who’s troops have murdered innocent civilians and deported children from their own country?
His views were always a bit like this but I actually wonder if he’s ill. He can’t believe all this is ok surely?
I agree. He even looks pretty goggled-eyed bonkers these days. (But I think it’s fair to assume that he would say you’ve been brainwashed by western media.)
Maybe he objects to the lip synching insult the most
But I’ve seen him live and he wasn’t singing
Twitter is a joy, Polly’s comment triggered every Corbynite with the mention of anti semitism. Amazing they take offence of that to defend someone supporting mass murder of civilians
I haven’t seen that yet. Waters seems to have taken Corbyn’s blueprint and amplified it to the max. While they both staunchly support Palestinian rights, Corbyn has repeatedly condemned antisemitism (and been defended from the accusation by many Jews and Jewish organisations). I don’t recall Waters taking any stance against it and can’t imagine any Jew defending him. And while I think Corbyn’s reaction to Putin’s invasion was pretty despicable, he is at least critical of Putin, while Rog in the above interview now apparently retracts his criticism.
The words “many Jews and Jewish organisations” doing some seriously heavy lifting there.
As we all know by now, he’s been defended by a small minority of the Jewish community. The overwhelming majority of the British Jewish community did not support him, and I’m not sure they would welcome the characterisation above.
The ‘small minority’ are self-hating Jews? Or merely non-Zionist Jews? I have often heard the latter description as being explained in terms of the former.
Just Jews with a different opinion, I’d say. And they’re fully entitled to that opinion. But they were very clearly in the minority within that cohort.
@bingo-little I have a strong sense of deja vu and the feeling we’ve had this conversation before.
Hard to know exact numbers. The Jewish Chronicle claimed 85% (IIRC) of British Jews considered Corbyn an antisemite, but the Jewish Chronicle is a staunchly pro-Israel, pro- Netanyahu newspaper and the weaponisation of antisemitism for political gain has been exposed very clearly by both the Forde Report and The Labour Files.
David Baddiel said recently that he doesn’t believe Corbyn to be antisemitic but that he considers him to have a “blind spot” with regard to antisemitism due to his being more concerned with fighting capitalism. I wouldn’t agree unreservedly with that comment, but I find it more plausible than accusing Corbyn of being anti-semitic given his record on standing up for Jewish rights and opposing racism.
Incidentally, a poll by the Labour Muslim Network claimed that 72%. of Muslims feel Starmer doesn’t represent them, but that didn’t garner anywhere near the attention in the British press as the Jewish Chronicle’s anti-Corbyn poll. I wonder why?
Can’t be bothered to have this discussion again. The endless attempts to rehabilitate Corbyn are tiresome, but they’re your prerogative.
All I will say is that: (a) per the above, it is quite clearly misleading to insinuate that Corbyn enjoyed support from the UK Jewish community in any real volume; and (b) your final question, even leaving aside the hopefully inadvertent but tough to ignore implication of a media conspiracy in favour of Jews, is plainly daft: feeling that a politician doesn’t represent you is of a different order of magnitude to thinking he is actively prejudiced against you on the basis of your race.
“Can’t be bothered to have this discussion again. The endless attempts to rehabilitate Corbyn are tiresome”
Then why comment at all? I find that odd. (Especially so as the thread is about Roger Waters.)
“The thread is about Roger Waters”.
Oh, the irony.
I have sent you a private message.
😘
Oh I love it when the word ‘race’ comes into it. Are the Jewish people a race then?
One of my grandfathers was Jewish. Am I ‘mixed race’ then?
🙂
I was referring to the Islamophobia accusation, but you’re right that it was clumsily expressed 👍🏼. Ethnicity the word for which I was grasping.
I seem to recall that all of this bollocks kicked off big time when a new Chief Rabbi took office. The bloke (sic) before didn’t seem to have the same opinions.
The Forde Report is clear that Labour had a problem with anti-semitism. Largely, imo, due to Corbyn functioning as a giant bam magnet, attracting the sort of people best left in the 57 varieties. Is the former Labour MP himself an anti-Semite? Clearly he doesn’t regard himself as such, however I can see why his enthusiasm for being friends with/having tea at Parliament with/ carrying wreaths for people who want to murder Jews, might cause some alarm in the Jewish community.
The Forde Report is also clear that antisemitism was weaponised by “both factions”.
Simon Maggin (who has also been accused of being an antisemite – I can’t comment on that, knowing nothing about him) addresses the wreath issue in this article, point 7.
https://simonmaginn.medium.com/the-labour-antisemitism-crisis-10-obvious-frauds-bda6405c2aa0
If his verdict of ‘false’ is demonstrably false, I’d be interested to know. (Same goes for any of the claims in nigelthebald’s article below.)
I’m at pains to stress that my concern, as always in these discussions, is not to defend Corbyn (though I admit, based on evidence, I don’t believe he’s an antisemite) and certainly not to defend antisemitism, but to understand why Johnson + Brexit was preferable to Corbyn + 2nd referendum, given that I think Brexit was such an obvious clusterfuck of humongous proportions. Was it really worth it, just to stop Corbyn? If he was genuinely an evil racist, maybe it was.
If Corbyn had done more to support Remain during the run up to the first referendum, there wouldn’t be any need for him to pledge a second: A do-over let us not forget, in which he pledged to remain neutral.
All a bit academic now as all the rehabilitation in the world won’t get him back a party or any meaningful political future.
One might equally ask why all the attention on the left focuses on Muslim voters dissatisfaction with Starmer’s views on Palestine and Kashmir. Meanwhile little, if any, mention is made of the patent disconnect, for example, wbetween socially conservative Muslim voters and many Labout MPs views on trans issues.
Not just Trans issues. Homophobia, misogyny and, yes, antisemitism too are rife in the Muslim community.
Just because people are victims of discrimination doesn’t mean none of them will discriminate against other groups of people.
Homophobia is very prevalent within the Muslim community, in my experience. It’s something I strongly feel needs to be opposed more, without worrying about offending anyone. It’s one thing when directed at adults, but the indoctrination of children, including those born gay, with the belief that homosexuality is in any way wrong or sinful is an especially pernicious and unacceptable evil, imo. (I feel the same way about the Catholic Church.)
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/07/09/fifty-times-jeremy-corbyn-stood-with-jewish-people/
You Corbyn rehabilitator you!
defibrillator
Oz Katerji did an excellent podcast on this which presents a nuanced take on it rather than the is/isn’t debate.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/corbynism-the-post-mortem/id1494568978
My view is he doesn’t think it’s important for a variety of reasons which is evidenced by the fact that he could have dealt with it as Leader and chose not to.
Thanks, @Twang, dammit though, I’d be interested to listen to that, but I’d need subtitles. I see it’s got quite mixed reviews, which I suspect might reflect the reviewers’ political affiliations.
“Chose not to deal with it as leader” or failed to do so effectively? I’ve often come across the comment “good activist, bad leader”. I have a couple of friends in Islington who seemingly like him as their local MP and let’s face it, he’s one of the UK’s longest serving MPs, so presumably he must have been something right on a local level. I don’t know whether the accusations that plagued his party leadership had also surfaced beforehand.
Well they plagued his leadership because they’d emerged beforehand. Attending terrorist funerals with a wreath for example. Why would you need subtitled @gary?
Cos i’m pretty deaf. I need subtitles for everything. Even daily interaction. (I kid you not – I have an app, LiveTranscribe, that provides them as I go about my daily business, should anyone be brave or foolhardy enough to try and engage me in conversation.)
So the wreath thing garnered attention before he was party leader? Simon Maggin (in the article posted above, up a bit) claims the whole episode never happened as recounted. Do the podcasts mention Maggin at all? There’s very little about him on my computer’s internet, apart from a spat with JK Rowling.
Ah OK Gal sorry didn’t realise.
It’s ok everyone. Plenty of material for Rog to get an album out of.
As someone who is not even a PF fan, and who does not support any side in the war, I would like a bit more evidence of how these accusations are ‘demonstrably true’. Anyone got this evidence to share? I don’t find it in that interview.
I think the two of them have disliked each other for a very long time. Another fight that I have no stake in.
The lip synching is clearly shown on YouTube. The antisemitism accusation stems not just from his support for Palestine, but putting a star of David on his floating pig (he talks in the German interview about the context, seemingly convinced that justifies his provocation). I think one of his ex-wives accused him of misogyny. Gilmour would presumably know about any tax-avoidance. The rest is just personal opinions.
@Gary
Tax avoidance is perfectly legal, if morally questionable.
Tax evasion, on the other hand, is a criminal offence
What do you think about Nico singing the banned verses from the German anthem?
Nico? Singing??
Whadya mean?
OK performing then.
An ex-wife accuses him of misogyny. As HP used to say ….riiight
Re pro Palestine being anti- semitic. Schoolboy howler. It’s anti zionist. There may be other reasons to accuse him of anti semitism but that aint one.
Putting a star of David on a pig is pretty unforgivable. It doesn’t necessarily mean he’s antisemitic, it might just mean he’s very stupid.
Yes
His intention might not have been antisemitic but the act itself was.
The Star of David is much more than just an emblem of the state of Israel. To show it publicly on a pig balloon is grossly insulting to jews as well as to Israel.
A flag would have been a different matter. Surely (not defending the man) an act can only be characterised in terms of the intention it explicitly carried? If it was an act of stupidity, then it cannot have carried any meaningful intention. Therefore if it was truly antisemitic, it can’t have been simple stupidity.
Can’t something be both stupid & intentionally offensive?
Numerous politicians have made a career of being both simultaneously.
Waters set out to cause offence. He seemingly didn’t care that it action might offend more than just the state of Israel.
The accusation of thieving could be problematic, unless Gilmour/Samson know something the rest of us don’t. I can picture libel lawyers rubbing their hands and ordering new Bentleys on the strength of that.
Waters has pretty comprehensively shown himself to be an arrogant deluded c**t.
The Gilmours seem unable to disengage themselves from pointless feuding with him. Surely it would be a much better look for them to have as little as possible to do with him. There is obviously a business relationship that must continue, but that could and should be delegated completely to professionals.
I think where this came from is in the interview he slagged off the Pink Floyd song they did for Ukraine
So probably just retaliation. Although I agree it’s probably not worth getting involved in mud slinging, it’s pretty obvious who is on the right side of the aggro here
Waters also made some bitchy comments about Samson’s lockdown videos (titled “The Von Trapped Family”) and, further back, about her ability as a Pink Floyd lyricist. But I’m surprised at her for bothering to ignite the flames further. I think Roger does his public image enough damage himself, without the need for anyone else’s help.
The point about the Von Trapps is that a) they were escaping from Nazis and b) they could sing, so it’s a pretty good analogy.
I like Polly (public persona, of course, never met the woman). I like that she’s married to Gilmour but goes on and on about how brilliant Leonard Cohen is. She had a child with potty-mouth Heathcote Williams who wrote the pornographic swear-fest Why D’Ya Do It? for Marianne Faithful, who herself collaborated with Roger Waters on various projects. It’s all cosy.
The last time he took them to court he lost the name Pink Floyd. This time he might lose the name Roger Waters.
Book your tickets for Bert Scroggins’s The Wall!
If he takes them to court this time he should be sure that he certainly was in the right.
Meanwhile, we’re still waiting for the court to decide if a jury will be involved when Van The Berk and Robin Swann (suing each other) have their day in court:
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2022-10-25/van-morrisons-appeal-to-have-battle-with-robin-swann-held-with-jury-delayed
Surely it’s, er, too late to stop now?
It ain’t why why, it just is.
Did you ever hear about
Did you ever hear about
Did you ever hear about
Jarndyce v Jarndyce?
Seemingly, they did not!
That’s a coincidence – I was one of the wards in Jarndyce!
I’m imagining the court usher calling Van’s character witnesses: ‘Calling William Blake… William Blake…? WILLIAM BLAKE?!? WILLIAMMMMM BLAAAAAAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!’
‘And, er, while we’re at, after that the court requires TS Eliot, TS Eliot, Yeats and Lady Gregory, Keith Chegwin, Humphrey Bogart, Mahalia Jackson, MAHALIA JACKSON, Jimmy Clitheroe, Arthur Askey, Ludwig Wittgenstein, Zoroaster, Methuselah, Roy Walker ROY WALKER, Jimmy Cricket, Lester Piggott, Billy Bingham, ELTON WELLESBY ELTON WELLESBY, the Milky Bar Kid, Christopher Biggins, Salman Rushdie, Bazza Chuckle, Plastic Bertrand…’
😆 cue podcast
Yes please @Twang, it’s about bloody time.
Try this
Lying, thieving, hypocritical, tax-avoiding, lip-synching, misogynistic, sick-with-envy, megalomaniac
Pepsi!
They really do sound like lines from a late period Van album.
It’s hard to be sure, though, as no one in their right mind will have heard any of them.
…Parklife
Win, lose or draw, he’ll be repairing to Fusco’s for potted herring and a wagon wheel when Judge Christmas Humphreys finishes his deliberations
‘Down by Avalon wi’ David Icke an’ Andrew Bridgen, eatin’ Fusco’s ice cream and makin’ up conspiracy theories…’
What would Syd have said about all this?
“Have you got it yet?”
“Floating, bumping, noses dodge a tooth
the fins a luminous
fangs all ’round the clown
is dark below the boulders hiding all
the sunlight’s good for us
‘Cause we’re the fishes and all we do
the move about is all we do
well, oh baby, my hairs on end about you…”
etc.
If you see Syd, tell ‘im.
Firstly the views of Polly Samson are of zero interest to me. She doesn’t figure in my life and doubt she ever will.
Dave Gilmour was a very good guitar player in a very famous group Pink Floyd. I particularly liked the guitar intro to Shine on you crazy diamond.
Apart from that many of his solos sound remarkably similar.
Roger Waters was the bassist in the same band and seemed to have most of the ideas, the words and the talent. Gilmour seemingly had a big case of Penis envy. The other two members didn’t seem to have the same problem.
Waters went on to have a successful solo career whilst Gilmour has continued baiting his ex band member whilst earning from the back catalogue that his mate was at the centre of creating.
Waters becomes more extreme but don’t see that supporting the Palestinians in their quest for their own state is anti semitic. Perhaps Polly Samson thinks they should be wiped out?
Waters views on Putin are clearly deluded but he is not the only person I have heard espouse them and there is an argument that if Nato/EU had acted differently pre 2014 we wouldn’t be in the position we are now in.
Two adults acting like spoilt kids is hardly edifying but judging from the comments on here the majority seem to be pro Gilmour – I don’t think it is that black and white.
As regards purely the music, Steve, I think (like a few here) that Waters’ Pros & Cons of Hitchiking is the best post-Floyd solo album. I really like it a lot. Second to that I’d put Gilmour’s On An Island. Not in the same league, for me, as Pros and Cons but a very pleasant album. On An Island and follow up Rattle That Lock were both number 1 in the UK album charts and top ten in America, something no Waters solo album has achieved.
My favourite Floyd solo song is The Blue, written by Gilmour and Samson.
Pros and Cons is the best post Floyd album any of them produced…BUT it is a trilogy with The Wall and The Final Cut so there are links.
I love all three albums.
My order of preference for that specific trilogy would be:
1. Pros and Cons
2. The Final Cut
3. The Wall
My favourite song out of that trilogy would be Nobody Home. (Or maybe The Gunner’s Dream. Or maybe Southampton Dock.)
Fletcher Memorial Home for me
Polly Samson is a great writer in her own, er, right. I recommend her novel A Theatre For Dreamers, inspired by the bohemian literary enclave on Hydra in the early 60s.
Other than that, how dare a mere woman have an opinion in the affairs of our mighty Rock Gods?
She’s not as good since she had her hair cut.
…………what?
A Victor Mature related joke! We don’t get enough of those.
As the man himself once famously bridled upon being refused entry to an exclusive club because of his profession “ I am not an actor and I have the reviews to prove it.”
As the man himself once famously bridled upon being refused entry to an exclusive club because of his profession “ I am not an actor and I have the reviews to prove it.”
Victor Mature related jokes are like buses.
cue Rob’s two penneth.
He says that Israel is as bad as Nazi Germany. That Biden is worse than Putin. That Ukraine is full of either people who want to be in Russia or Nazis who want to commit genocide against those Ukrainian Russians.. That all Jewish Israelis came from the US or Eastern Europe. That we shouldn’t go against Russia because they will defend their motherland to the death as anyone would – something that Ukrainians appear not be allowed to do. That he doesn’t boycott Russia because that would be ridiculous, but of course he boycotts Israel. And on, and on, and on. I think you’re being very generous to him, Steve…
Everything Polly said… Roger has gone full dictator apologist.. what a shame
Everyone gives him the benefit of the doubt because he’s been one of the greatest writers of his generation. But he’s dead to me now, he supports murderers
Waters has had a successful solo career? Really? Seems to be that he returns to playing The Wall whenever he can.
Gilmour has not had a successful solo career but the post Waters Floyd sold a ton.
…hence Waters’ bitterness and ire…
Gilmour’s had an extremely successful solo career! Both of his post-Floyd solo albums were number one in the UK and top ten in USA. Granted, two isn’t many, the lazy feck, but his solo tours and the subsequent live albums and DVDs also did well. Plus loads of big-name collaborations (Metallic Spheres, with The Orb, is really good).
I think Dave Gilmour is great. One of the greatest rock guitarists and his work is a huge part of what made Pink Floyd so successful as their parallel careers show.
PS he also played on a Ben Watt track!
I love his playing on The Levels. So understated, no unnecessary frills, just quietly suited to the song. Great song it is too. IIRC I prefer the version on the YouTube video to the version on the record. (But they might be the same and I dreamt that.)
Apparently a Steven Wilson remix of his first solo album is coming soon, along with the same treatment given to Rick Wright’s debut set.
His first solo album is a solid bit of work but I doubt it would take Steven Wilson more than a couple of hours to remix it TBH.
Agreed….it’s his best solo effort for me though, a bit more variety than his others and not so soporific.
That’s my problem with Gilmour. He’s a really fine player but a bit dull.
(Almost) as John Peel said of Eric Clapton. He’s good, but I wish his playing was more interesting.
I like soporific. Soporific is good. I’m a bit soporific myself.
It would be interesting though to know how long these remixes take, presumably it varies greatly from album to album.
I have both the Gilmore solo albums and very good they are too.
I had Pros and cons many years ago but it went when I sold my first vinyl collection. There is a case for getting it replaced. I saw Waters gig at Hyde Park with the Trump blimp – it was a good spectacle. I also saw the Wall tour which frankly didn’t enjoy.
I saw Saucerful of Secrets live which was better than both of the Waters gigs. I don’t think this spat is doing either of them any good and they should bury the hatchet – they don’t have to be friends but just get on with their lives.
Hasn’t DG done four albums…?
Yeah, first two were ignorable shite though, imo.
This was good from the first album.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gilmour+there%27s+no+way+out+of+here+
Yeah, I quite like that one.
I can’t remember the Rattle That Lock album at all. I remember he developed the title track from a railway tannoy’s jingle. I think it was one of those albums I played once and never went back to.
“just get on with their lives”
Very much agree. Whether one agrees with Simson or not, it’s difficult to see what she was hoping to gain by wading it. She must have known the amount of hoo-hah it would cause (on an international level, no less!).
I agree, not sure why she chose to get involved really as barely any of the interview relates to Pink Floyd and thus her husband. They are two very wealthy elderly men who would be better just ignoring each other and getting on with what remains of their very comfortable lives.
Having said that…. I think Gilmour has always had a chip on his shoulder regarding his contribution to the band being undervalued – he blocked for years the publication of Nick Sedgwick’s book ‘In The Pink’ on the grounds that it portrayed Waters as the leader of the band who came up with all the ideas and concepts, not to mention the lyrics.
Having said that…..as a great fan of Waters work, I really don’t understand where he’s coming from with not just this interview but numerous others he’s given in recent times.
Meanwhile, if anyone is in the market for a new house…
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/23222995.david-gilmours-hove-haven-still-sale-15-million/
Given the amount of money Gilmour has donated to homeless charities over the years, think he might deserve a pass on that.
That said, this whole DG-RW spat calls to mind Jorge Luis Borges’ comment about the two bald men fighting over a comb
Yes, his guitar collection raised more for charity than the reported price of that house. The house, incidentally, seems to be in a very public position for someone so well known. From most angles ion Street View it is incomplete, but it looks like a tall enough person could seen into the ‘zen’ garden from the road along the seafront. Maybe that’s why he sold it so soon after it was built.
Waters doesn’t look well (or sane) in this recent frank exchange of views.
I bet Waters was constantly throwing stones at the windows.
I heard that RW pooed in a bag, dropped it on DG’s doorstep, lit the bag, rang the doorbell, ran away and hid over the road.
Definitely shouldn’t bury the hatchet in each other’s backs.
If my wife publicly intervened in a spat between say me and my brother or mate I would take a dim view of it. Same in reverse. Don’t see what she has gained by doing this. I assume Waters already knows she doesn’t like him.
Playground stuff IMHO.
Probably triggered by a bloody good dinner and too many glugs o’Krug if you ask me.
That’s what I imagined. We’ve all been there (well not me, of course, being teetotal an’ all). A tipsy tweet… “oops, I pressed send, ah well, too bad, off to bed now”, then the next day: “oh crap, I forgot about that, hope no one noticed it”.
A pathetically puérile brawl between two members of the world’s most tediously pretentious band? What times we live in.
Indeed. (Except the bit about the band.)
The world’s most tediously pretentious band? I think my nomination would be either Genesis or Yes.
According to our Hoffman peers, Roger has said he is also re-recording Dark Side of the Moon with no guitar solos and with him doing all the vocals. And yes, everyone seems to be very interested in how Great Gig in the Sky will come out.
Ha! He should get Seamus or Nobs to do the vocals on that particular track.
(I must admit though, I did like his lockdown album reworkings of Floyd tracks a lot.)
In a similarish “it’s perfect, leave it alone” sort of vein, though not really similar at all, I see John Cleese is bringing back Fawlty Towers. In collaboration with Rob Reiner, who’s also making a sequel to Spinal Tap. So much to not really look forward to!
Fawlty Towers! Seriously?? Wow, I did not expect that. What a way to ruin a perfectly formed little run of 12 iconic episodes. Of course, there’s a (very) slight chance a revival might be good, but forgive me for being skeptical.
Spinal Tap… hmm, I’m not so opposed to that. It might work.
The planned FT reboot has got its own thread now. I’m on my way over there right now, in fact. Maybe see you there?
——>
A planned FT reboot? Noooooooooooooooo.
If they get rid of Jancis Robinson’s wine column on a Saturday, then I’m cancelling my subscription. Simon Kuper’s column moaning about Brexit is always good as well.
Arf!
A column moaning about Brexit, you say? Sounds brill! My favourite pastime.
Spinal Tap reinvented in the mid-1990s, a bit like Def Leppard tried to do with the Slang album i.e. cut your hair, fewer riffs and shit songs.
That might work.
Then the ending is going back to turning up to 11 and another exploding drummer.
To be fair, Def Leppard recording shit songs isn’t really a reinvention.
@podicle
If Polly S is right, he’ll lip synch it
Very good point. We can only hope.
As odd as this may sound I wonder if part of this is that Roger is two and a half years older than David, and as they grew up with many of the same friends and at the same school RW still sees him as a junior partner, similar to the relationship between Paul and George.
Maybe DG fagged for Roger at school
I’m picturing PF as Drones Club acolytes. “But, dash it all Gilmers, we were at school together!”
Not odd at all – Gilmour has commented previously that he was very much made to feel he was the junior partner, when he took over from Syd.
»when he took over from Syd« – wasn’t that a hundred years ago?
Most people grow up at some point.
True – but I can imagine Waters keeping up a slightly passive-aggressive line of “wit” over that 100 year period. Gilmour getting above his station? Needs to be reminded that he’ll always be the new boy…
…a stranger in this town
Quote from Nick Mason in an interview from 5 years ago:
“I think the problem is Roger doesn’t really respect David. He feels that writing is everything, and that guitar playing and the singing are something that, I won’t say anyone can do, but that everything should be judged on the writing rather than the playing.”
Well, he would say that, wouldn’t he? Rog thinks he’s a better writer than he is an instrumentalist. QED – writing must be more important.
Perhaps also the mentality “you’d still be nothing if it hadn’t been for me allowing you to join the group”. Which is sort of how I feel about most Afterworders.
But we are nothing. So what are we here for? Eh?
The hope of some free cake, I suspect.
Not for me, I’m looking after me Shatner’s
Free cake? What kind?
It’s Gary’s forum, we just fuck it up for him on a daily basis
With Wordle.
Not guilty on that score, G
Asinine comments are another matter entirely
If people are going to start calling each other G I shall retire to the People’s Friend forum.
Is there free cake there?
You and your bloody cake!
Gary started it…
I know Paul McCartney has said himself that he tended to regard George as his junior, but they were only seven months apart in age (Paul – 18 June 1942, George 25 February 1943), so I’ve never quite understood it. Even as a teenager, I would have thought of someone seven months younger as being the same age as me. Perhaps they were in different years at school, which might have emphasised the gap. I know John Lennon thought George was too young at first to join the band, but he was over two years older, and you can see the age gap in the early photos.
Assuming they did the same back then, schools select the year groups from 1st Sep to 31st August. So Paul would have been a year above George.
Offspring the Younger was born at the end of August and was consistently the youngest in his year.
Yes he was, the year below. A chasm in teenage years! Even to this day, if I meet someone who was in my sister’s year at school (one year above) , I think of them as being one of the Big Boys and more experienced than me.
Same for me – my sister was in the year above, and her school year, some of whom might also be only seven months older than me, did seem a different generation. All of that is important at the time and does linger on.
I’m not sure quite when it happens, perhaps around thirty, when everyone your age and for the next forty years or so seems to be on the same plateau. You might be at different stages with families and so on, but age differences, even by decades, isn’t something you think about. It’s more what have in common.
I have a friend at work, a junior colleague, who has just turned 25. It was quite alarming to find I was five years older than her dad. Perhaps he has grown up, because I’m fairly sure I haven’t.
George was too young to perform in certain clubs, such as those in Hamburg. His age caused a logistical problem just as they were getting going. Perhaps that stuck in their minds for a long while.
Rog now appealing to the UN for a ceasefire
By ceasefire I assume he means Ukraine to stop firing back and lay down and die.
I don’t think even the UN can fix the Floyd Wars.
Rog wasn’t invited to the UN in person because he’d have banged his shoe on the rostrum and shouted “We will bury you!”….
….out of tune
Though after yesterdays video performance Rog can say that he has finally had a walk on part in a war.
Cap doffed. Sir, you are a genius.
👋👋
If only old Roger was there for real he might not have such idiotic opinions
Now, instead of Kim Jong-il we have Vladimir Putin, and in the Alec Baldwin role we have Roger Waters.
Great scene, fantastic film:
Reeling from the severity of his former bandmate and his wife’s attacks, our Rog has now appealed to the UN to negotiate a ceasefire
What a bizarre world we live in. And, more importantly, what an awful suit he’s chosen for the occasion. He should have gone to the same tailor Bruce Springsteen used for his Nightshift video. Instead he’s opted for more of a “jumble sale” look.
This, from The Guardian’s review, made me chuckle:
The 79-year-old co-founder of Pink Floyd had been invited to speak by the Russian delegation, but claimed to be representing “4 billion or so brothers and sisters”, the majority of humanity.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/08/roger-waters-pink-floyd-un-security-council-ukraine-russia
One diplomat at the UN apprently likened RW to Mr Bean
I understand an unnamed diplomat said something along the lines of didn’t the UN used to be a serious organisation, who will turn up to speak next week, Mr Bean…..so not a comparison as such.
Pretty explicit dismissal of RW as being a lightweight, im(ns)ho.
What RW was wearing was also decidedly Bean-ish
Nonsense! I won’t have that! Mr Bean’s tie is red.
Did I say Mr Bean? I meant Mr Beard
You leave ZZ Top’s drummer outta this!
Representing 4 billion people? What a twunt. Even Trump wouldn’t say that.
And to think Polly considers him a megalomaniac.
I believe Roger has a hidden track on this.
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the East Finchley way.
Here’s Roger’s address to the UN in full. It’s very TL;DR. It’s quite rambling, with some sensible bits and some completely bonkers bits. He even mentions Mr Bean.
Madame President, Excellencies, distinguished members of The Security Council, Ladies and Gentlemen.
I feel profoundly honoured to be afforded this singular opportunity to brief your excellencies today. With your forbearance, I shall endeavor to express what I believe to be the feelings of countless of our brothers and sisters all over the world, both here in NY and across the seas. I shall invite them into these hallowed halls to have their say.
We are here to consider possibilities for peace in war torn Ukraine, especially in light of the increasing volume of weapons arriving in that unhappy country. Every morning when I sit down at my laptop, I think of our brothers and sisters, in Ukraine and elsewhere, who, through no fault of their own find themselves in dire and often deadly circumstances. Over there, in Ukraine they may be soldiers facing another deadly day at the front, or they may be mothers or fathers facing the awful question how can I feed my child today, or they may be civilians knowing that today the lights will go out, for sure, as they always do in war zones, knowing that there is no fresh water, that there is no fuel for the stove, no blanket, just barbed wire and watch towers and walls and enmity. Or, they may be over here, in a big rich city like NY, here brothers and sisters can still find themselves in dire straights. Maybe, somehow, however hard they worked all their lives, they lost their footing on the slippery tilting deck of the neo liberal capitalist ship we call life in the city and fell overboard to end up drowning.. Maybe they got sick, or maybe they took out a student loan, maybe they missed a payment, the margins are slim, who knows, but now they live on the street in a pile of cardboard, maybe even within sight of this United Nations building. Anyway, wherever they are, all over the world, war zone or not, together they make up a majority, a voiceless majority. Today I shall endeavor to speak for them.
We the people wish to live. We wish to live in peace in conditions of parity that give us the real opportunity to look after ourselves and our loved ones. We are hard workers and we are ready to work hard. All we need is a fair crack of the whip. Maybe that’s an unfortunate choice of idiom, after five hundred years of imperialism, colonialism and slavery.
Anyway please help us.
To help us you may have to consider our predicament, and to do so you may have to take your eye off the ball for a moment, to put your own goals momentarily to one side. What are your goals by the way? And here maybe I direct my enquiries more to the five permanent members of this Council. What are your goals? What is in the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? Bigger profits for war industries? More power globally? A bigger share of the global cake? Is mother earth a cake to be gobbled up? Does not a bigger share of the cake mean less for everyone else? What if today, in this place of safety, we were to look in another direction, to look at our capacity for empathy for instance, to put ourselves in other’s shoes, like, right now, for instance, the shoes of that chap on the other side of this room, or even the shoes of the voiceless majority, if they have any shoes that is.
The Voiceless Majority is concerned that your wars, yes your wars, for these perpetual wars are not of our choosing, that your wars will destroy the planet that is our home, and along with every other living thing we will be sacrificed on the altar of two things, profits from the war to line the pockets of the very, very, few and the hegemonic march of some empire or other towards unipolar world domination. Please reassure us that that is not your vision for there is no good outcome down that road. That road leads only to disaster, everyone on that road has a red button in their briefcase and the further we go down that road the closer the itchy fingers get to that red button and the closer we all get to Armageddon. Look across the room, at this level we’re all wearing the same shoes.
So back to Ukraine. The invasion of Ukraine by The Russian Federation was illegal. I condemn it in the strongest possible terms. Also, The Russian invasion of Ukraine was not “unprovoked”, so I also condemn the provocateurs in the strongest possible terms. There, that’s got that out of the way.
When I wrote this speech yesterday, I included an observation that the power of veto in this council only lay in the hands of its permanent members, I was concerned that that was was undemocratic and rendered This Council toothless…. This morning I had a revelation……..TOOTHLESS! maybe toothless is in some ways a good thing……..If this is a toothless chamber……..I can open my big mouth on behalf of the voiceless without getting my head bitten off……. How cool is that. I read in the paper this morning, some anonymous diplomat quoted as saying, “Roger Waters! To address the Security Council? Whatever next?….. Mr Bean! Hwah! Hwah! Hwah! For those of you who don’t know, Mr Bean is an ineffectual character in an English comedy show on TV. So it’s a penny to a pound the anonymous diplomat is an Englishman, Hwah! hwah! hwah! To you too Sir! Ok, I think it’s time to introduce my mother, Mary Duncan Waters, she was a big influence on me, she was a school teacher, I say was, she’s been dead for fifteen years. My father, Eric Fletcher Waters, was a big influence on me too, he too is dead, he was killed on the 18th of February 1944 at Aprilia near The Anzio Bridgehead in Italy, when I was only five months old, so I know something about war and loss. Anyway back to my Mum. When I was about thirteen I was struggling with some knotty adolescent problem or other trying to decide what to do, it doesn’t matter what it was, I can’t remember anyway, but my mum sat me down and said, “Listen, you’re going to be faced with many knotty problems during your life and when you are here’s my advice, read, read, read find out everything you can about whatever it is, look at it from all sides, all angles, listen to all opinions, especially ones you don’t agree with, research it thoroughly, when you’ve done that you will have done all the heavy lifting and the next bit is easy, “Is it? Ok mum what’s the easy bit?”…….”Oh, the easy bit is, you just do the right thing.“
So speaking of doing the right thing brings me to human rights.
We the people, want universal human rights for all our brothers and sisters all over the world irrespective of their ethnicity, religion or nationality. To be clear, that would include but would not be limited to the right to life and property under the law for, for instance, Ukrainians, and for instance Palestinians. Yup, let that sink in. And obviously for all the rest of us. One of the problems with wars is that in a war zone or anywhere where the people live under military occupation, there is no recourse to the law, there are no human rights.
Today our brief is the possibility of peace in the Ukraine, with special reference to the arming of the Kiev regime by third parties.
I’m running out of time so,
What do the Voiceless millions have to say?
They say
Thank you for hearing us today
We are the many who do not share in the profits of the war industry.
We do not willingly raise our sons or daughters
To provide fodder for your cannons.
In our opinion
The only sensible course of action today
Is to call for an immediate ceasefire in Ukraine.
No ifs, no buts, no ands.
Not one more Ukrainian or Russian life is to be spent.
Not one.
They are all precious in our eyes.
So, the time has come to speak truth to power. You all remember the story of the Emperor’s new clothes? Of course you do. Well the leaders of your respective Empires stand, in one degree or another, naked before us. We have a message for them. It is a message from all the refugees in all the camps, a message from all the slums and favelas, a message from all the homeless, on all the cold streets, from all the earthquakes and floods, on earth. It is also a message from all the people, not quite starving but wondering how on earth to make the pittance they earn, meet the cost of a roof over their head and food for their families. My mother country England is, thank god, an Empire no more, but in that country now, there is a new catch phrase “Eat or Heat?” you can’t do both. It’s a cry echoing round the whole of Europe.
Apparently, the only thing the Powers that Be think we can all afford is perpetual war. How crazy is that?
So, from the four billion or so brothers and sisters in this Voiceless Majority who together with the millions in the international anti-war movement represent a huge constituency, enough is enough! We demand change.
President Joe Biden, President Putin, President Zelenski,
USA, NATO, RUSSIA, THE EU, ALL OF YOU.
PLEASE CHANGE COURSE NOW,
AGREE TO A CEASEFIRE IN UKRAINE TODAY.
That, of course, will only be the starting point. But everything extrapolates from that starting point. Imagine the collective global sigh of relief. The outpouring of joy. The international joining of voices in harmony singing an anthem to peace! John Lennon pumping the air with his fist from the grave. We have finally been heard in the corridors of power. The bullies in the schoolyard have agreed to stop playing nuclear chicken. We’re not all going to die in a nuclear holocaust after all. At least not today. The powers that be have been persuaded to drop the arms race and perpetual war as their accepted modus operandum. We can stop squandering all our precious resources on war. We can feed our children, we can keep them warm. We may even learn to cooperate with all our brothers and sisters and even save our beautiful planet home from destruction. Wouldn’t that be nice?
Your Excellencies,
I thank you for your forbearance.
Roger Waters
Dire Straights… ouch!
My internal grammar pedant just went into meltdown.
Anyhow, it’s not a war – it’s a special military operation. His chum isn’t going to be happy with Rog calling it a war.
Ukraine: brothers in arms on every street.
Whatever one might think of the sentiment, that is a seriously horrible piece of writing.
It’s shockingly bad. I didn’t think he was that dumb. I thought he was less intelligent than he gave himself credit for but here he comes over as infantile. How could he think that drivel would impress? He really is deluded and narcissistic one would have to conclude.
Am now wondering if this is a parody by Gary. Could it be? Surely not?
Nope, but could be an AI Chat thingy. He might have asked a chatbot “Write summat Roger Waters might come out with” to save time.
John Lennon pumping the air with his fist.
“Winston Churchill!!”
I have no real knowledge of the background to this, but… what qualified Waters to “brief” (chortle) the Security Council, beyond his being rich and famous and accordingly having little or no sense of his own limitations?
Does he has some actual expertise in this field? Or is this just the equivalent of the celebrity guest on Question Time, invited along to make everyone else feel a little more intellectually secure?
Re your last para: this intervention isn’t any more valuable than, for example, the excruciating Question Time appearance by Alex “The Cheese Knob” James, so you’re probably right.
Bassists, eh?
I just looked it up. He was apparently invited by Russia (Waters, not James – that I know of).
It can’t be discounted that Alex is possibly one of many people who has been encouraged to speak in public in order to discredit the idea of free speech itself.
Well, thing is, you see, his mum sat him down once and gave him some advice and his dad died in the war and everything and TOOTHLESS! and the invasion of Ukraine by The Russian Federation was illegal and there is no fuel for the stove on TOOTHLESS! on the slippery tilting deck of the neo liberal capitalist ship we call life in the city.
Hope that explains it.
I dream of being stood briefing the UN Security Council and uttering the phrase “anyway, back to my Mum…”. A classic rhetorical flourish, right there.
Fancy him mentioning his dad, he’s never done that before
Died in the war, I believe.
….no! Really?
A lot of alliteration from pompous Pink Floyd performers placed in powerful posts.
A painter, a piper, a prisoner…
I got it it Bingo 👍
🙌🙌🙌
Respect! It was a niche reference, but it had to be done.
Actually, reading again, there are very, very few sensible bits.
He says “When I wrote this speech yesterday…” but later “I’m running out of time so…” so I get the impression that although he probably wrote some notes beforehand, he then went off-piste and trusted his brain to do some thinking on the spur. Big mistake.
It does read a bit like someone freestyling. It certainly doesn’t feel like it’s been proof-read/read through for sense at any stage.
I shouldn’t take the piss, really. I’m sure he’s following his conscience and doing what he thinks is right.
But it is yet another great example of the uncomfortable fact that many of the individuals who produced the great popular art which has enriched so many of our lives (albeit, in this case: not mine) are actually just fairly normal, simple minded people like the rest of us, who happen to have been touched by the lucky stick in an early phase, and who should definitely not be allowed to operate heavy machinery, intellectually speaking. I guess it’s sort of reassuring, in a way.
….freestyling. One thing it’s missing is a really good beatboxer.
“I feel profoundly honoured to be afforded this singular opportunity to brief your excellencies today.”
If you’re in the audience, this is the exact moment your blood runs cold and you start looking around for nearby exits. A beatboxer genuinely could not have made it any worse.
Should have gone full Chuck D: “I got a letter from the Kremlin the other day/I opened it and read it, it said you were suckers/They wanted me for the UN or whatever/Picture me giving a damn I said I would be singularly delighted to be permitted to effect a briefing upon the magnificent persons of the excellencies and their most esteemed and elegant entourages.”
“…..and then you say goddam, they TOOTHLESS”
“David Gilmour was a hero to many but he never meant shit to me”
Do you think the star of David was Professor Griff’s idea?
Oh Vienna …
Sounds more like he’s been freebasing
That might explain the poor grammar. I once made a presentation in the days before powerpoint. It was recorded for a book. Some time later, I was excited to receive a copy. Breathless, I turned to my chapter. They had transcribed my presentation word for word. It made no sense whatsoever. Turns out I don’t speak in coherent sentences.
Have you seen what Teams does to language when it “transcribes” human speech? It’s like living is easy with nice clothes all over again
There’s a feature in PowerPoint which will produce live subtitles, as long as you are connected to the internet and it’s surprisingly good. With a modest vision mixer, these can be overlaid onto a screen and I suspect that broadcasters may be using this for live news as the transcription is pretty accurate and has an acceptable, if not perfect, amount of delay. I haven’t tried it with Teams as Teams is an abomination.
I don’t mind Teams, except that it will always remind me of the second lockdown which really was a season in Hell.
Not Hull…? 🤔
Well, hell yes
Hull, Hell and Halifax as the old music hall acts used to say.
Glasgow and Coventry were other places where audiences left no turn unstained//
Pretty sure Spike Milligan tried to kill himself after one awful night at the Coventry Hippodrome
Was it Morecambe and Wise who, on taking the stage at the Glasgow Empire, had someone shout, “Bloody hell, there’s two of them?”
Mike and Bernie Winters it was and I believe it was a lot stronger than “Bloody Hell ”
Des O’Connor pretended to faint so that he could be removed from the stage.
And the time when Roy Castle got more and more desperate to impress a quiet Glasgow audience. He finally got a reaction by singing while juggling and tap dancing on top of a unicycle or some such demonstration of his versatility. A lone voice finally emerged from the crowd, ‘Is there nae fucking end to your talent?’
Ran through RW’s speech to the UN again last night.
I think people need to look at it in purely allegorical terms.
Poor beleaguered Russia is obviously a metaphor for a tortured artist still grieving for the Dad he lost 70-odd years ago (three prizes for guessing who) being aggressively persecuted on all sides by a bunch of vicious, talentless no-marks like Ukraine (Gilmour), the US (Mason) and the EU (the late Rick Wright).
I wonder how Mason feels about all this. He and Waters were friends.
Well, presumably Waters telling him he couldn’t play during The Wall probably challenged that.
Nick Mason’s Saucerful of Secrets project is pretty much the anti-Floyd, I think: a group of people who like each other, enjoying playing together on stage. Of course the audience experience is improved by the fact that there’s no danger of them surprising you with something from The Wall.
For a while he was on good terms with both of the feuding duo.
Shouldn’t imagine that’s the case now.
I would definitely go and see Nick’s Saucerful Of Secrets.
The other two can both do one. Not f***ing interested.
SoS are bloody wonderful. If you get the chance go and see them
I think Mason is friendly with both camps still and wisely stays out of the arguments.
Drummers seem to be the friendliest in the band. With some notable exceptions.
Meanwhile the sale of the back catalogue appears stalled for the time being….not that they need the money!
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/roger-waters-putin-apologism-throws-100000853.html
That’s awful.
How on earth can the three of them hope to make ends meet?
His UN speech is what happens when a man who has been big in his field and who has been in the rarefied position of giving front-cover magazine interviews every couple of years – with writers/fans hanging on his every word, like a trip to the Oracle at Delphi – comes to believe that he really has some special wisdom to offer the world. Everything he said was encapsulated in an old Bonzo Dog Band album title: ‘Let’s Make Up and be Friendly’ – a nice thought but expressed in a rambling, self-obsessed manner with no understanding of realpolitik (and its grinding, maddening awfulness) and a nasty sympathy for a madman endangering the world.
Roger Waters is an elderly man who makes pop music, with a ludicrously inflated sense of his own importance.
I think you win the white carnation for that final sentence, Colin…that’s it, in a nutshell.
Agreed other then elderly. He’s been like that for decades.
@Colin-H
Thanks, C.
Was always wondering how he got Van M to sing Comfortably Numb* on that all-star Wall concert from the early 1990s
* A very splendid version it is, too
Here’s an interesting (for those who are still interested) article. The Daily Telegraph journalist gets a listen to the re-recorded Dark Side:
“It turns out to be a curate’s egg; parts are very good indeed. ‘Time’, that young man’s lament for mortality, sounds terrific with his old man’s timbre. ‘Breathe’ is wonderfully reimagined as a slow, acoustic groove. A country- tinged ‘Money’ could be a late Johnny Cash cut, with Waters growling charismatically at the very bottom of his register.
After a bad dream one night, he splurged down a description of it on his laptop, and recites the whole dreadful prose poem over ‘On The Run’ unedited.
Waters sings throughout, but only plays an instrument on one track, a terrific bass solo on ‘Us and Them’., which made me wish he’d played across the whole thing.
Many fans will enjoy the new Dark Side. It won’t replace the original; nor will it ruin Waters’s reputation. His comments in the press are more likely to do that.”
He then goes on to talk about Waters’ forthcoming album of new material, to be called The Bar.
I was surprised to read that his son Harry now plays in a Pink Floyd tribute band.
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/features/20230209/281479280574213
According to that article, the title track of Waters’ new album, The Bar, is “about an allegorical pub, a symbol for any place that welcomes open debate. It’s about the importance of talking to people you disagree with, even if some of their views appal you – rebutting them perhaps, but listening, rather than retreating into a corner of the internet that will only reinforce your existing beliefs.” I definitely get the impression he’s referring to The Afterword.
He obviously doesn’t frequent many pubs. ‘Listening’ tends not to happen much; ‘rebutting’ usually does, in a rather forceful way until, more pints consumed, it becomes actual butting.
I doubt he spends many evenings down the Dog and Duck in Walthamstow, playing darts with the locals.
Interesting he should encourage listening. One of the few things he seems to have in common with us everyday folk is that he comes across as pretty entrenched in his views and uninterested in any contradictory evidence or discourse, and then moans about other people behaving similarly. Though he has been open to change on a few occasions. As he says in that German interview, he called Putin a gangster but now thinks that was unfair and he’s a nice bloke really. Plus he admitted he was wrong to have sued his ex-bandmates, once he’d lost the case. Plus he used to be adamant in his aversion to stadium concerts, until he started doing stadium concerts.
I am interested to hear this new Dark Side though. I liked his Lockdown Sessions a lot and have no probs separating art from artist.
I see Roger’s speech to the UN has been put on YouTube in its entirety, in what I can only assume is a pathetically opportunistic attempt to propel this thread towards a third hamper. Two things struck me as I watched it (with closed caption subtitles, for the audiologically disadvantaged).
1. Seems he was reading the whole thing from a pre-written speech after all. Good lord.
2. Seems he really does believe that anyone in America is entitled to join Mark Knopfler’s band, however unwittingly.
Brothers and sisters in arms.
On every street.
Talk of Strife
‘Money’ For Nothing
Twisting by Mariupol
Very good!
War Crimes Investigations
From Private Eye
I read this morning that Jewish Voice for Labour and Jewish Labour Movement are currently having another big spat, calling each other anti-semites. No wonder Roger’s “confused”.
Judean Peoples Front, People Front of Judea, Popular Front … splitters!
The Jewish Labour Movement have been part of the Labour Party for 100 years, have a distinguished history, large-ish membership and the credibility that comes with this.
JVL were created with the sole purpose of providing a beard for J. Corbyn, the former Labour MP who managed to nearly destroy the party.
Hope that helps.
Not really, to be honest. Wikipedia seems more helpful.
Roger’s being nice for a change! And about David Gilmour, no less! Not so nice about Stuart Maconie, mind.
This thread could go on forever.
“Both of them”?
I wondered about that. Refers to Money and Time, I assume.
Edit: scrolling through the comments on Waters’ timeline, I see a few people are saying there are three: Money, Time and Any Colour You Like.
Kind of a backhanded compliment, isn’t it! Saying “both” guitar solos are great sounds a bit like “and that’s all he contributed to the album”, when in fact there is guitar all over it. (And top class, fantastic guitar – one of the top “rock guitar” albums there has ever been!)
This, precisely. Arthur has the mot juste.
To be fair, he is responding to the quote “horrible guitar solos.” If Maconie had referred to ” horrible guitar playing” he may have said something more like you, Arthur.
But Maconie (apparently) didn’t state that there were only two of them…that rather odd implication seems to be all Roger.
I’ll just leave this here
Excellent!
I’m going to leave this here. It’s got nothing to do with Roger Waters as such, but a) it’s my thread, I can do what I like and b) it’s a nice counterpoint to Waters’ ramblings at the UN conference.
Earlier today, Latvian MP Rihards Kols spoke at the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly:
“There’s an elephant in this room which is called by the name of the Russian Federation delegation. If I were a witness and somebody asked me: ‘Who is a war criminal?’ Well, I would point to the back benches in this room. It’s just a disgrace. It’s a disgrace that this delegation is here, particularly the delegation that consists of sanctioned individuals who voted to annex independent countries’ territories… those are the principles this institution was vouched to protect and guard! And we are sitting like nothing happened!
I will convey a message to the Russian delegation, I will say this: Russian warship, GO FUCK YOURSELF!”
He spoke that last bit in Russian.
A magistrate in Frankfurt is reported to have banned a planned Waters gig in the city, calling him “one of the most widely spread anti-Semites in the world.”
https://www.stereogum.com/2215166/frankfurt-cancels-roger-waters-concert-calling-him-one-of-the-worlds-most-well-known-antisemites/news/
The City of Frankfurt has indeed banned the Waters gig. Oddly enough, on the day their decision made the news, German President Walter Steinmüller (an avid Tanika Tikaram fan) met with Israel’s head of state, and accused him of exactly the same things that Roger Waters said about Israel’s politics in various interviews.
The real cause for the ban seems to be Mr. Waters’ apparent »friendliness« with certain Russian officials. This is a major crime in woke Germany – they even cancelled tours by Opera singers because they wouldn’t issue an anti-Putin statement.
Roger Waters’ attorneys have already filed the necessary papers asking for a multi-million dollar compensation from Frankfurt’s city council.
From RC March 2023 – an advert…Golden Years, ooh, ooh – wahwahwah…
…and all created by Rog, on his own…
Anyone notice the
“His first ever farewell tour”?
Yep – wonder what that’s all about?
It’s just Rog being “witty”. He’s said publicly that it’s a pisstake of other acts who seem to be forever announcing their last ever tour.
Oof! Caustic!!
God only knows, it’s not what I would choose – to listen to…
Roger Waters talks to Meron Mendel, the director of the Anne Frank Education Centre, about Isael/Palestine.
He says:
I remember saying to that young audience there, “You are the generation of young Israelis who must make peace with your brothers and sisters, the Palestinians.” Before I said that, 60,000 fans were screaming at the top of their lungs: “Pink Floyd! Dark Side of the Moon! Roger!”. After my plea for peace, there was absolute silence.
Mendel: This is a great moment! This is exactly what these people need!
Waters: The mood tipped from frenzied enthusiasm to: “This guy is nuts”.
However my computer says: that wasn’t the case, some Israelis booed others cheered.
Also, he says:
I was asked by the Palestinian people, by every man, woman, child, “Please, please, Roger Waters, creator of this beautiful music, don’t play in Israel!”. If you do, you will help normalise apartheid! So please don’t do it!”
My computer says: hmm.
Mandel makes some interesting points.
https://rogerwaters.com/der-spiegel-interview/