Since I enjoyed doing my Stones thread so much yesterday, and it struck just the right amount of nodding agreement and violent disagreement in the Afterword massive, I’m going to do the same thing today (and possibly until the end of the week… or until I get fed up….).
So, again another A List act, and another two LPs I don’t really often listen to from start to end… and which I get mixed up which tracks are on which…
It’s the Beatles! And it’s Please Please Me vs With The Beatles!!!
Once again, tracks marked * are the Good Ones – the ones I would choose to listen to outside the context of the album. And I’ll rate each track out of ten as I listen.
Here we go!
Please Please Me (1963)
———————–
A1 – * I Saw Her Standing There – Ah, 1, 2, 3, 4!! 10/10
A2 – * Misery – What a tune… and what harmonies 8/10
A3 – * Anna (Go With Him) – A fabulous Lennon vocal and blistering middle eight rescue this from schmaltziness – 8/10
A4 – * Chains – I have a real soft spot for this one. I think it just bounces along so addictively, and I love the way all the boys keep jumping in with those fabulous harmonies on the word “chains!!” over and over again… incredibly, four lads from Liverpool outdo US girl groups (and not for the last time) – 9/10
A5 – Boys – Ugh, the first duff track – I suppose every Fabs album needs a Ringo track but this is desperate – “boop shoo-wop” indeed…. 2/10
A6 – Ask Me Why – Hm, this band really go from dizzy heights to chronic lows… nope, this song is dire and sounds like a rainy Saturday morning listening to Brian Matthew having an off day 2/10
A7 – * Please Please Me – The “come on! come on!” refrain is fantastic (Interesting – never noticed the additional studio echo on the fadeout before) – not quite a ten but 9/10
B1 – Love Me Do – Decent, and the sound of a great band hitting their stride with their first single… but (shock horror) I think the historical value outweighs the musical value – 6/10
B2 – PS I Love You – Hm…. nah, this is unconvincing… a young Paul showing the occasional lack of taste that would plague him throughout his career (not that Lennon didn’t have the same problem) 3/10
B3 – * Baby It’s You – Again, the Liverpool boys beat the US girls… what a voice Lennon has… this has real groove and soul 9/10
B4 – Do You Want To Know A Secret – No, no I don’t, sorry 3/10
B5 – A Taste of Honey – Ugh 1/10
B6 – There’s A Place – I was all set to hate this, but listening now I rather like the sudden gear change and harmony on the “Aaand it’s my miiiind….! Aaaand there’s no tiiiime!” line…. it’s not bad 6/10
B7 – * Twist and Shout – Now THAT’S more like it, the best two minutes in pop history… take a bow Mr Lennon 10/10
* Verdict – 7/14 (50%) songs I would choose to listen to outside the context of the album, 2/14 (14%) songs are stone cold classics, overall aggregate score is 61% (86/140).
Upon close listening, this is definitely Lennon’s album. He has such a wonderful raw pop-soul voice that you get goosebumps listening to him. BUT crucially (stating the obvious here) you really need the sweet harmonies and the overall swing and verve of the band for contrast. The cloying and kitsch bits date it, however.
With The Beatles (1963)
———————–
A1 – It Won’t Be Long – The trouble with such a forward-looking and innovative band is that it really shows when they are just treading water, even for a moment… This is good, but just all right by Beatle standards… 5/10
A2 – All I’ve Got to Do – I know I was praising Lennon’s vocals just a moment ago, but I wish he would give the other lads more of a chance… another “just all right” song, a potboiler… 6/10
A3 – * All My Loving – That’s more like it, give Paul a go… This is nice and frenetic, as if they are scared of dropping the pace for a second… and George’s guitar solo has a nice Duane Eddy twang 8/10
A4 – Don’t Bother Me – Sorry George… nice effort but you won’t really hit paydirt with your songwriting for another three or four years 4/10
A5 – Little Child – They always gave their weakest songs to Ringo, didn’t they? 2/10
A6 – Till There Was You – Noooo…. Soft Paul at his deadly worst (I don’t think Hard Paul really comes out much until ’65 onwards) 1/10
A7 – * Please Mr Postman – Oh YES, this is the band I love… The feeling of desperate pleading in this song is just magical … “De-liver the letter! De-sooner de-better!” 10/10
B1 – Roll Over Beethoven – Hm, the rock and roll covers are starting to seem passe in a band that does modern R and B so well… this song is only about four or five years old and already seems prehistoric… Chuck is infinitely better 5/10
B2 – Hold Me Tight – The boys always tried to innovate with harmonic leaps and unusual chords…. but sometimes that just serves to create a bit of a soup. This song sounds half-written – 4/10
B3 – * You Really Got a Hold on Me – Love the lazy swing of this tune… sheesh, Lennon’s voice again…. 9/10
B4 – I Wanna Be Your Man – Hang on, two Ringo songs on one album? They must have been desperate. He sounds so out of his depth, running out of breath at the end of every line. The song is a bit half-baked as well – they should have left it to the Stones 3/10
B5 – Devil in Her Heart – We are back to Brian Matthew territory here… this just sounds like C-list 60s… Filler, 3/10
B6 – Not a Second Time – Similar to Hold Me Tight, they sound like they are struggling to write a “Beatle song” 3/10
B7 – * Money (That’s What I Want) – yes THAT is what I want! Just when you thought this LP was limping to a lacklustre conclusion, you get one of the best soul covers ever. Clearly trying to match Twist and Shout by closing on a red hot pounding groove. Lennon just knocks it out of the park here. 10/10
* Verdict – 4/14 (29%) songs I would choose to listen to outside the context of the album, 2/14 (14%) songs are stone cold classics, overall aggregate score is 52% (73/140).
An early example of second album syndrome? I respect the Beatles for leaving their singles off of their albums, but it just goes to show that generally (at least in the early days) it meant their albums had all their B-list material. They were clearly overworked here (newsflash, I know) and this album shows tell-tale signs of being a rush-job. Interestingly, or a band known primarily for their songwriting, however, this album shows glimpses of just how good they would have been as a straight R and B cover band. In hindsight, they should have just left the songwriting for the singles (for a year or so anyway until they matured properly) and just done a covers album.
———-
Conclusion
The stats don’t lie!! I value Please Please Me a lot more than With The Beatles. The relatively low scores for both, however, help prove (as I always suspected) that they didn’t really become an Album Band until Revolver. (Other opinions are available, obviously….)
How can you not make Please Please Me (the song) 10/10? The direct request for sex in the title, the sheer brilliance and snappiness of the rhymes in this verse:
I don’t wanna sound complaining
But you know there’s always rain in my heart (In my heart)
I do all the pleasing with you, it’s so hard to reason
With you, oh yeah, why do you make me blue?
Teenage Kicks? Hold my beer.
I think it’s their best song.
I know, I know….
Otherwise, I agree with your choices. All My Loving has great wall of sound guitar throughout that really drives the song.
Oral sex probably, not sure it’s their best song but it is great and should be recognised as the number 1 that it actually was (on 2 out of 3 charts).
A touch of hyperbowl, probably – but it does make me very excited when I hear it – there’s not much to touch it for the sheer short shock of energy (of the songs they wrote).
A more straightforward case this one I think. Less likely to cause disagreement. Revolver/Sgt Pepper would bring out more reactions. Still an enjoyable read though.
Yeah I agree. I know those albums too well though, and could recite them both from start to finish. The early Beatles albums I don’t know so well (I’m a Red Album kinda guy) so it made the battle more interesting for me!
(And the correct answer is Pepper of course…) 🙂
Seem to have got a more heated debate since my post so you can thank me. Pepper/Revolver done to death but track by track could be good, see if some outrage can be provoked by the scoring.
PPM for me
I’d rate Boys and There’s a Place higher. Boys has one of Ringo’s best vocal, . There’s a Place could fit onto any of their albums up to Beatles For Sale – one of their best early album tracks.
Lennon really was head above the others at this point wasn’t he?
“Lennon really was head above the others at this point wasn’t he?” – Yeah I agree. And that’s really stark when you listen to these first two albums.
I would say Paul only seriously got into his stride in the ’66 to ’69 period, when he was knocking it out of the park time and time again.
I’d better stop voicing my opinions on the Beatles – it’s a dangerous game round these parts!
No, I agree with pretty much everything else
Was always a bit perplexed by what seems to be the received wisdom that WTB was a big step on from their first.
Paul had I Saw Her Standing There on the first album, All My Loving on the 2nd. And don’t forget they really were co-writing a lot at this time, She Loves You, I Want to Hold Your Hand, A Hard Day’s Night etc. Pretty great from the start (both of them), George was the late developer.
John was a little older so that helps at this age.
Not A Second Time? 3/10??
You can go off someone, you know 😉
I think I enjoy people disagreeing with me more than agreeing with me! Maybe I’m actually a troll and I don’t know it…..
Please Please Me is fantastic and shows how they were an albums band right from the start. Someone should do a podcast about that.
**coughs**
The first 2 (3) songs on WTB are excellent, both 9/10 for me. “Proves not an album band before Revolver”. Proves nothing of the sort especially as their very next album is superb.
I would say these 2 albums are more or less equal, however PPM has the first 2 singles on it and WTB is weakened a bit because it doesn’t have any of the next 3 (all number 1s). They were improving.
Anna is in absolutely no way “rescued from schmaltziness” by Lennon, because the original is already bloody great. Lennon merely does a pretty bloodless Anglicized version of it and cannot get within a thousand miles of Arthur Alexander’s voice.
You know what? I agree with you. In my defence, I meant the schmaltziness of the songwriting (which I still stand by), not Arthur Alexander’s performance.
Perhaps Paul should have sung it to bring out that schmaltzy aspect…
Or Englebert Humperdinck.
WHAT? Lennon’s vocal is amazing. He takes the song into his own context. A crucial part of his/their genius. This sounds bang from heart. Comparison is irrelevant.
Arthur Alexander: the only artist to have their songs covered by the Beatles, the Rolling Stones AND Elvis Presley.
And who has a pretty damn fine tribute record made a decade or 2 later:
https://www.allmusic.com/album/adios-amigo-a-tribute-to-arthur-alexander-mw0000112019
Another of my diosyncratic views: George Martin gave more to the Beatles than John lennon.
While we are at it, “sticky rock n roll” or “it’s only fingers” not only enable another brilliant stones album with no filler, but provide a louche title up there with the fine mooted earlier name for “it’s only rock n roll” : “short and curlies”.
“George Martin gave more to the Beatles than John lennon”….. Hmmmmmmm, will have to mull that one over. I think I can see your point though. Certainly Lennon was a bit of a scattershot talent who was happy to let other people pick up the loose ends of his undercooked ideas (see Tomorrow Never Knows and Strawberry Fields Forever, m’lud).
Absolute nonsense.
Words and lyrics maybe not, but definately regarding the arrangements.
I think Lennon had some quite good ideas for the music for songs too. More than Martin. I read that somewhere. Arrangements are another matter.
Martin was a critical component for sure but Lennon had the songs (and an incredible voice)
Of course. A little irony in my comment above. Martin said himself it was all them, not him. Self deprecation no doubt but he didn’t want any misunderstanding of his role either.
He wins my vote for 5th Beatle. Maybe he was actually 3rd Beatle in the studio.
“Little Child” is a John vocal, not Sir Bongo
Oops, what a clanger! Really? I must listen back to that. I was in the middle of de-waxing my ears at that point.
I think I like both these albums much more than you do, Mr C.
Out of the two albums the only song I don’t particularly care for is I Want To be Your Man.
I like Do You Want To Know A Secret, I can take A Taste Of Honey in limited doses. Til There Was You is perfectly listenable.
I can’t decide between the two albums. I like them equally.
With The Beatles was the first LP I owned. I love it to bits. Every tiny morsel of it. Even today. Prior to that I was familiar with the Please Please Me singles and the Twist And Shout EP. I therefore see the first album as a bit of a cheat. With The Beatles had no singles on it whatsoever. It also has a classic cover and more George Martin piano. It screams *album*, which is fitting as the majority of their customers at the time were screaming teenage girls.
The first one I owned too.
First one for me too.
My Grandma bought it me for Christmas when I was 10.
Love this record to death.
One of my first few too, taped from a family friend (along with Rubber Soul), I also bought PPM and AHDN was a birthday gift (when I was 14), so I was well in with their first 3 albums, not sure I even realised they were the first 3 at the time.
Hold Me TIght has Paul’s worst vocal EVER though (in The Beatles).
Oh Darling.
I don’t like that one either.
Cough! Splutter! That is probably one of my favourite vocals of all time!
He overdoes it a tad.
Double cough/splutter.
Paul at his best.
How dare you sir !!
Means a lot to Mrs BB as well – her Dad took a break from his Glenn Miller records to buy it and so it is completely hard wired into her consciousness. I agree though, I think the debut is better if only for that incandescent Twist and Shout.
Part of the Beatles’s extraordinary cultural impact is that someone like Mrs BB’s Dad (bless him, he passed away three years ago) loved them. One of her greatest childhood memories is him taking her with him when he went down to the local record shop to buy Strawberry Fields/Penny Lane on the day it was released,.
WTB has always been the better album for me, although PPM has grown in stature over the years and I do like it a lot more now than I used to. I disagree about WTB – the first three tracks on WTB are terrific, and it is worth mentioning how well (and similarly) both are sequenced, with strong starts and finishes to both sides of each LP.
Confession – WTB was the first LP I ever bought, so it does have a special place in my heart. Like Tigs, I know every note, every sound on it as I played it over and over again. I didn’t get PPM until a few years later as I had the hits and Twist And Shout….my sister did have and I swapped her a Monkees album for it!
It Won’t Be Long is a cracking opener, part of a tradition they maintained from the debut and thereafter with each album of getting stuck in from the word go, no messing.
Please Please Me. Mono remaster. Crank it up. Wow as today as then.
It’s arguably their best sounding album, and it only took 20 minutes to record.
But the next album took even longer
Which is some going for an album that lasts 32 minutes 15 seconds.
Have you seen The Rutles?
Anyway, 4 tracks were recorded (and released) before the main album sessions.
1234
With The Beatles/Abbey Road are my least played. Good in themselves, but a commonality in being rushed/put together in circumstances that didn’t truly reflect their genius. With The Beatles gets the pass being a fledgling.
Side 2 of Abbey Road is The Beatles album I play the most ( or is it The White Album ….. Hmm ! )
I have a fondness for PPM because my dad owned (and still does as far as I know) a copy on pre-recorded open reel tape (I wonder if it’s worth anything these days?). I recall being captivated by ‘Chains’ and playing around with the speed.
The HJH get some grief for the “schmaltzy” stuff but they were catering to mums and grannies as well as ‘ver kids.’
As I said above, I love Chains as well. I don’t think it gets enough recognition (although god knows it would have to fight for space in this band’s back catalogue ). The original by the Cookies is decent as well, although a lot gentler.
I’m not a big fan of either album, but I prefer WTB over PPM. Which I can prove by telling you that I’ve only ripped seven of the tracks off PPM, but only omitted one track from WTB. 😉 Also PPM has no five star tracks and only two four star tracks of the seven I kept, while WTB has one five star track (Roll Over Beethoven, of course) and three four star tracks.
One of my most hated (and certainly not ripped to computer) tracks of all time is Anna (Go To Him), only beaten by Mr Moonlight IMO (that my name is Anna only adds to my utter disdain…) So yeah…I’m in slight disagreement with your assessments here Arthur! 😀
Either way, listening to these two albums it seems quite unexpected that their next album would be such a flawless work of absolute pop art! And completely without covers. Incredible.
My critical faculties are stunted by the fact that I heard PPM in March 1963 and WTB 8 months later, by which time I and everybody I knew was panting for more Fabs product, although we’d had a couple of singles in the mean time. We just put it on and played the shit out of it, and as far as I remember nobody was interested in deciding if it was a step up or a step down. It just was.
These days I like to put the entire corpus on shuffle so which album a particular track comes from has become irrelevant. Still get surprised though.
Dont forget these 6 63 tracks too, another half an LP.
From Me to You
Thank you Girl
She Loves You
I’ll Get You
I Want to Hold Your Hand
This Boy
Actually Meet the Beatles may be best 63 (64) Beatles album
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meet_the_Beatles!
This Canadian album also interesting….
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twist_and_Shout_(album)
No mention yet of the Mono/Stereo debate. I’m assuming all of us that heard these LPs back in 1963 or thereabouts will prefer the Mono, but how about you relative newbies? To these ears the Stereo mixes are dreadful and I find them virtually unlistenable and annoying, but I’ m fairly sure that this is mostly due to my hard wired experience of constant listening 57 years ago!
However, I recently concocted Spectral Stereo versions of both of these albums from the remixed Hey Zube and You Know You Should Be Glad collections by Lord Reith, and they sound absolutely ….er…fab! Who needs Giles, eh?
Mono. Absolutely. Thank God for the 2009 mono remasters.
I’m afraid I’m a stereo man. I experienced the Beatles from the start in stereo, and I grew to love that crazy wide separation…. even on Please Please Me when the instruments are squashed to one side and voices to the other. Pure madness, but it’s just what I’m used to and what I come to expect from the band!