A bit of a to-do has developed over a missing oxford comma on the latest 50p coin. I love pedantic stuff like this. It’s entertaining, informative, and funny.
Anyone who mentions Vampire Weekend in reply to this post gets an immediate QI klaxon.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jan/27/brexit-50p-coin-boycott-philip-pullman-oxford-comma
*clears throat* Unlike former colleagues in publishing in NYC, who regard missing Oxford commas as punishable by death, I take the view that it’s entirely unnecessary* except when the meaning or rhythm demands it. There’s something about Mother Teresa and a dildo collector which proves the point, but I can’t find it.
In this case Pullman is exactly right, unless the govt is going for prosperity with all nations, which seems unlikely. Thomas Jefferson was American, of course.
*like Arthur’s sneaky one.
Not sure about one, but I’d like to thank my parents, Mother Theresa and the Pope… seems to sum up the problem
;
Curiously, I became aware today (as a proofreader for a living) that British and Australian English favours no serial commas (save where clarity is required/ambiguity may otherwise result) while US English does. I know UK publishers who favour it. My policy to date has always been to apply it consistently if a client’s work tends to favour it, whatever the nationality of English designated, and not, if the client doesn’t naturally favour it. Sometimes, the formality/informality of the text will have a bearing. Personally, I don’t like the things. And I don’t like Pullman either. This is a non-story.
Does anyone genuinely know what’s on the current 50p pieces, or any of the other coins? Is this really part of a covert anti-Brexit resistance? Who cares? But at least hes not banging on about apostrophe’s.
This brou-ha-ha is indeed very amusing.
Like sharks, grammar pedants arrive every rapidly when blood has been spilt.
This all reminds me of Lynn Truss’s best-seller Eats, shoots & leaves which make grammar interesting (and lucrative) for a few months in the early noughties.
You should of check your grammar’s in that post the. There all over the place. Or is that deliberating?
You pedant.
I have often wondered what turns someone into a grammar pedant. This fascinating article provides a few answers. It all comes down to your personality type.
There is even a quote from the great German -born, British psychologist. That really is the Eysenck on the cake!
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/29/grammar-pedant-personality-type?fbclid=IwAR2d96LxYqWblXQJbo176aG9BfFWZtypUR1eY3YXtdYNhVXZkDm3iUv4HYU
It’s a non problem it seems to me. If it makes the sentence clearer, add it. If not, don’t.
Your obviously not an grammar pedant.
I wouldn’t want you to think that. An incorrect possessive apostrophe or people using amount where they mean number has me biting the carpet.
Exactly. And in this instance, the lack of a comma doesn’t change the meaning.
Without wishing to incur the wrath of KFD, I’d have to say it does. Whether it matters or not is another question altogether.
“The wrath of KFD”
I like the sound of that. A Japanese monster flick with rather tacky special effects?
“Tremble, Godzilla! You have aroused the wrath of KFD. Now Tokyo will tumble.”
Preferably with a soundtrack by this lot. That moshpit is a force of nature.
To me, it’s clear that the UK wishes to achieve three things with all nations: 1. Peace; 2. Prosperity; 3. Friendship. I don’t see how the addition of a comma would change that.
Some of the contributors to this thread do not seem to take spelling and punctuation very seriously.
I suggest you spend a little time hanging out with some spelling pendants.
Any favourite pedants from fiction or film?
The dry-as-dust Edward Casaubon in Middlemarch is one of my favourites.
Wiki have some fine quotes.
“The pedant is he who finds it impossible to read criticism of himself without immediately reaching for his pen and replying to the effect that the accusation is a gross insult to his person. He is, in effect, a man unable to laugh at himself.” ―Sigmund Freud, The Ego and the Id[1]
“If you’re the kind of person who insists on this or that ‘correct’ use… abandon your pedantry, as I did mine. Dive into the open flowing waters and leave the stagnant canals be… Above all, let there be pleasure!” ―Stephen Fry
Pedantic, I?” ―Alexei Sayle
The Pedants’ Revolt!
This article and the comments are worth a browse.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2014/feb/14/mind-your-language-grammar-wars
Oxford comma? Oxford Coma more like it, after reading all these articles I have been discovering. This one is about the personality traits of pedants. Part of the reason I find this topic interesting is that poor Mrs KFD has a colleague who has a colleague who is aggressively and obsessively pedantic. He makes a life a misery for her.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2017/may/30/why-do-pedants-pedant
Good article, that!
I think I have pedantry instincts fighting to come out a lot of the time, which I TRY to suppress. Probably not grammar/language pedantry as much as factual stuff (you know, the important stuff like release dates of Beatles albums).
Interesting that extroverts are (supposedly) less pedantic than introverts. That kind of subverts the notion of the blowhard always shouting everyone down, which I would have assumed was an extrovert trait.
I would feel shameful at the thought that pedantry is an attempt to assert superiority! In fact I’m not even sure it is… For me, it’s more of a sense of I just don’t want a “bad fact” hanging about there in the world like a bad smell. I would hate for someone to be going about their daily life thinking that Abbey Road was released “in the seventies” for example….
I agree, Arthur. There is nothing at all wrong with people who are not prepared to tolerate gross factual inaccuracies.
Surely there ought to be a non-pejorative noun to describe someone who is meticulous with details and refuses to accept a sloppy approach to facts.
Unfortunately, “I am not a pedant, I am someone who is meticulous with details and refuses to accept a sloppy approach to facts” is not going to play well with people who are neither of those things.
Perhaps we can have one set of rules for the literate, and “Alternative Punctuation” for Fox news viewers.
Separate the Morlocks from the Eloi!
So, how long have we been complaining about pedants?
Since the time of Elizabeth 1 according to the Webster-Merriam Dictinary
“In Shakespeare’s day, a pedant was a male schoolteacher. The word’s meaning was close to that of the Italian pedante, from which the English word was adapted. Someone who was pedantic was simply a tutor or teacher. But some instructional pedants of the day must have been pompous and dull, because by the late 1500s pedant had gained an extended sense referring to anyone who was obnoxiously and tediously devoted to his or her own academic acumen.”
“some pedants of the day must have been pompous and dull”
Er, hello! You called?