——————-
This Friday Taylor Swift will release her seventh album, Lover. It’s been previewed by four great singles that have swerved and wrong-footed us all and teed up the new record nicely.
Her last album, 2017’s Reputation was a harder album with a mixture of cynicism and dismissiveness. The lead single back in 2017 announced “The old Taylor can’t come to the phone right now. Why..? Because she’s DEAD”.
The first single from Lover was ME! (See above) which had an expensive, lavish multi-coloured pop video. This began with a snake that exploded into butterflies. “Hooray” said fans, “the new Taylor can’t come to the phone right now because she’s dead and old Taylor is the new Taylor.” But it wasn’t so simple.
The second single was “You Need To Calm Down” which from the outside was another colourful pop romp but then took a turn into being and explicit call for LGBTQ+ support, which is not Taylor territory. The video also featured the end of the Katy Perry-Taylor Swift feud and had cameos galore including Ryan Reynolds referencing Norman Rockwell.
Now that two singles had us bouncing up and down, the third preview track was The Archer. No video this time, but instead a slower song that echoes Neil Finn, and is crying out to be covered by him.
Finally we have the title track, Lover. If you’re still not a fan of Taytay, just pretend it’s by Jenny Lewis, because it sounds like it’s by Jenny Lewis.
Four great songs. Roll on Friday.
She has some talent as a writer, not sure she can sing though and I hate the way her records are produced. According to my daughter (13 today!), Taylor is old news, on her way out.
In fairness, Billie Eilish *is* awesome.
My daughter certainly agrees with that.
(Me too probably)
Possibly on her way out as a shiny pop princess, but she still has her country music singer-songwriting chops to fall back on. I’m a fan of Billie Eilish, but it’ll be interesting to see how she evolves once the ‘romper-bomper-stomper-boo’ persona starts to pall.
Yeah, she’s 30 soon. Billie Eilish has just become the first person born in the 21st century to have a US number one. Taylor’s next act is going to be interesting. I thought a full-on return to country was going to come next.
I truly can’t see the appeal of this woman’s music at all. Inane lyrics, inane tunes. Why is she considered any better than, say, Jedward? To my ears there’s very little difference in the qulity of talent displayed.
Hmmmm, then this might not be the thread for you.
But it’s a serious question, motivated by genuine curiosity. What makes her better than Jedward (aside from marketing)?
Well, I suppose she’s slightly less irritating…
Tunes mainly. Some good lyrics too. Plus you can dance to some of them. Do you really not see the appeal of “Shake It Off,” to give just one example?
No! It’s appalling! I remember seeing her on the Graham Norton Show and she came across as really smart and mature talking about her music (and she didn’t take bullshit from the jerk that John Cleese has become) and I thought “she seems really interesting” …then she performed Shake It Off and I couldn’t believe that drivel was what she’d been discussing so earnestly -an utterly inane song that a five year old could have come up with. Again I ask, why on earth do you think it’s any better than, say, Bad Behaviour by Jedward or Baby by Justin Bieber? Sounds like the exactly the same sort of shite to me.
Shake It Off is better than Strawberry Fields and that as they say is a fact, Mr Gary Used To Be Handsome But Now Looks Like Mick Jagger On A Bad Day
And herein lies the prob. If only I were a little more youthful in my tastes and interests -having the tastes and interests of a pubescent schoolgirl, for example- I’d undoubtedly be a lot closer to the audience she is clearly aiming at. But alas I’m well past my teenage years and rapidly approaching my prime.
I never liked Shake It Off, and I’m not keen on her newer stuff, but 1989 is a wonderful album. Give the first three tracks a try if you can be arsed.
I just tried. I really did. Because you’re nice and I far prefer you to Lodey. But I only managed to last a few seconds into Welcome To New York. It reminded me very much of Bad Behaviour by Jedward. And then a few seconds of Blank Space, and that reminded me of Justin Bieber. I didn’t get as far as the third.
Ryan Adams’s version of 1989 pays it due homage as a very decent album. Mind you, I don’t think we’re allowed to mention him these days.
Yep nor me…obviously they are not aimed at me…and those videos are really tiresome…I tried listening with me eyes shut but to no avail…but im sure her fans will love it…
Each to his own Gary but really….
Taylor has recorded some of the mightiest tunes ever recorded (and that as they say is a fact) whilst Jedward is ,whilst admittedly quite likeable in a “are they really for real” kind of way , a throwaway pop duo singing instantly forgettable ditties.
I used to have such high hopes for you, Gary.
I truly can’t hear much difference. (“Throwaway” and “instantly forgettable” describe both to me. I’d put Bieber in the same group too)
You used to be so handsome but since you added ears of cloth I’m afraid those glory days are gone for good.
“Taylor has recorded some of the mightiest tunes ever recorded (and that as they say is a fact)”
And you accuse somebody else of having cloth ears?
See what iggypop says, Cloth Ears 2
I couldn’t give a flying one what iggypop says. I prefer to believe my own ears, Cloth Ears the Original.
Nice one, Jim. Last time (he lied) I’m trying the ironic thingie.
Good luck to her. But this type of thing is just white noise to me. I think I may have heard her stuff on the radio by accident once or twice. Or in a shop or cinema advert. Which makes sense because it’s the kind of music that’s there to make you feel like buying something. A dress. A car. A fridge. Coca Cola…
She doesn’t have a beard and a checked shirt so may not be standard AW fodder. I think she is a mighty pop force. Roll on the new LP.
Always liked you, MC
Neither does Jedward have a beard and a checked shirt. The comparisons just keep on coming.
But does she own a
beretBalmoral?My three daughters have been fans of hers for years, going way back to her first couple of country style albums, they’ve grown up with her and still love her to bits…. to be honest i think she’s superb and possibly the finest pop music artist around .
You are no doubt right. I just don’t like pop music very much.
Tosh and piffle he’s right. I just looked up “best pop artist right now” and Ms Swift isn’t even in the top 69 according to the internets! (Post Malone is number 9 – now he really is genuinely good.)
https://www.ranker.com/list/best-pop-artists-2019/ranker-music
I’ve never been ‘toshed’ or even ‘piffled’ here before, is it reportable or should i just relax and enjoy it ??
Clearly you value a whiney, stoned person rapping over a simple repetitive tune to a well-constructed pop song with choruses that use different chords to the verse and everything, sung brilliantly. Each, as they say, to their own *sniff*
Hey, don’t you be knocking whiney stoned people. We’re what makes the world go round.
“I just don’t like pop music very much.”
Then what, pray tell, are you doing on a Taylor Swift thread?!
It’s like me seeing a thread on, I don’t know, Rory Gallagher, and calling his stuff out for being dull, widdly-diddly guitar music.
(No offence to Taste fans, just using it as an example of something I dislike that others clearly get a great deal of joy from.)
When did an ‘only positive comments’ rule come into play? On the rare occasions that I start a thread I’m always surprised by any interest it garners, positive or negative. (Generally they garner no interest whatsoever. And that’s fine too, in a saddo, Billy-no-mates kinda way). If I posted a thread about the magnificence of David Sylvian’s ‘Blemish’, comments along the lines of “random bleeps and scratchy sounds posing as music, pretentious unlistenable twaddle” would be every bit as welcome as “the greatest work of art by any human being ever in the history of everything” type comments. Less accurate, but just as welcome.
We chat, idly and without that much thought, about our opinions on the highways and byways of popular culture. That’s what we mostly do here. I see neither harm nor value in a throwaway diss, like I see neither harm nor value in 99% of the stuff I read here – which makes a nice change from the rest of the interweb.
I agree with you about Rory Gallagher. Very dull indeed. Taste fans are eejits.
I was curious, that’s all. I don’t know much about her or her music and was interested to know the appeal- especially to someone on a site such as this which is primarily, er, dominated by the ‘older’ demographic. I often drop in on posts about bands/artists/authors/films that I am unfamiliar with or sometimes even actively dislike because…well…because of curiosity. It would be a dull place indeed if we only visited the posts we already had positive views about.
Incidentally, although my comments may have been glib regarding Taylor Swift I don’t hate her or her stuff. I genuinely don’t like the sound of most modern pop music. Or rap. Or hip hop. For me it’s mostly all about 1963 to 1978. But I’m curious regarding other opinions and styles and the nature of their appeal.
Fair enough. It just seem like certain types of artists attract thread-crappers more than others. Pop, usually.
But I’m not keen on the very concept of “thread-crappers”. Who’s to judge? One person’s thread-crap is another person’s delish brown sauce. Any and all comments welcome, I say, as long they’re not intended to be mean to other posters.
I agree to extent. It just feels like threads on modern pop always make those that don’t like modern pop desperate to let us know that.
e.g. a thread on a new Beatles reissue will get either indifference from non Fabs fans (who just scroll on), or excited chat from those interested. Great.
A thread on some new indie/electrononica/whatever darlings will get similar. Indifference or enthusiasm. Lovely.
A modern pop star releases something new however, and someone posts a thread about it – a guaranteed “I DON’T LIKE THIS ARTIST” within minutes.
I think the “I just don’t get it” factor stimulates comment. I’m pretty indifferent to The Beatles and unlikely to have any strong opinion or curiosity. They’re ok. But when I read glowing praise from AWers (ie. knowledgable, interested, non civilians) about artists I “just don’t get” I’m curious, intrigued even, to know what they hear in them that I don’t. For me, Taylor Swift, Madonna, Pet Shop Boys, Bob Dylan, Neil Young, The Who and AC DC all fall into that category.
Not aimed at you G Boy (cos I think you are generally interested as to why Taylor Swift is regarded by some of your AW chums as a goddess) but Mini is dead right. Any mention on here of music even remotely labelled pop attracts instant snobby vitriol. One of the joys of being as old as what I am is not caring a fig if what I am currently listening to is “pop” or not.
That might well be true of recent pop (I hadn’t noticed) but certainly prehistoric pop (eg. 80’s) has many fans here.
I don’t know much recent pop. Which is arguably a fairly normal thing, a good thing even, given my age (103).
Looking again at the list of “The Best Pop Artists Of 2019” (https://www.ranker.com/list/best-pop-artists-2019/ranker-music) I’ve never heard most of them, including number 1 Billie Eilish, and even never heard of many of them. (Whiney stoner Post Malone is the only one on the entire list I can claim to actively like.) I don’t think many of them have been talked about at all here.
Now, where did I put me slippers?
You know, thinking about this, I’m wondering if the snobby vitriol you refer to is directed not so much at “pop” as “beat-based pop”. That seems to me the major difference between pop now and the AW-appreciated pop of the past. And in fact I must admit, I don’t care much for beat-based pop myself (Post Malone aside).
(Am I pissing @drj off with all this sidetracking? I hope not. I hope he’ll achieve a complimentary hamster for 100 comments and come to thank me for it one day).
I’m sincerely hoping the ‘snobby vitriol” remark wasn’t aimed at me. I can be both those things, sure. But this was mere (and honest) curiosity.
In which case I’m off to the Headingly thread to tell everyone there just how much I don’t “get” cricket.
I’m sure they’ll be delighted with this fascinating input. 😉
And why not? If you sincerely wanted to discuss what they like about it, I suspect they might be interested in explaining. I certainly hope they wouldn’t object to your comment.
Tell you what, I’ll give it a go and see what happens.
I think it went quite well, all things considered. Junior got all pally with me, which has never really happened before. I might even pop back there later just to see if anyone has started making sense.
In future maybe we should all just stick to the threads which talk about things we already like.
But then poor Lodey would be limited to just talking about me.
If you think this is bad, try starting a thread on Kate Tempest! 😉
It’s a bit like arguing over the significance of a lime sherbet I suppose.
Interesting. It’s funny, I didn’t start this thread to bait people, nor did I start it as a joke. I was aware that I was discussing an artist who wasn’t the usual Afterword demographic. It’s funny how pop can wind “music lovers” up and make them feel totally justified about being dismissive of it. I’m not really into reggae, and subsequently I don’t know much about it, but I’m not going over to the reggae thread and crapping all over it.
Sorry, DrJ, it would never have remotely occurred to me that dissing Ms Swift’s talents could upset you or be seen as “crapping all over” your thread. I apologise. (Your thread didn’t “wind me up” though – I thought it was interesting.)
Meh, it’s late where I am. I don’t mean to be sensitive. But c’mon, she’s not Jedward! That’s like saying you can’t tell the difference between the Kinks and Freddie & The Dreamers.
I’m going to put in some serious research (into both Swift and Jedward) over the coming days and see if deepening my very superficial knowledge changes my opinion. I’m very reluctant to agree with Lodey though. On anything.
Even your good looks?
Sadly it seems his eyesight is not what it used to be. And when I say eyesight, I mean sanity.
If you weren’t so darned funny I would be offended
What you did is very definition of thread-crapping, you handsome devil.
I dont think people crapped all over Taylor Swift to be honest. Just gave their honest opinion. I guess. This site surely isnt a beard and checked shirt site only, There seems to be a wide variety of tastes. Perhaps I am missing the point.
Taylor Swift is fabulous. I don’t know how much of her work is her and how much is other people, but I don’t think it matters too much either. You don’t get to have a career like hers accidentally or without talent.
I prefer her more recent stuff to the early work and not because it’s poppier, I just think the quality is more consistent, that said, some of her early tracks are excellent too.
But 1989 is just undeniably a great album, chock full of great songs, catchy but also mature, you can play it right through without feeling the need to skip anything. I hated Shake It Off when it first appeared, too obvious, trying too hard. I was wrong.
She’s a star, deal with it.
Wow. It’s been a busy few weeks and I completely missed there’s new Taylor music. So thanks to Dr J for all that info.
But to add my voice to the debate, I think that she’s a massive talent. Big songs, great live shows (I find her limitations as a dancer somewhat charming) and seemingly a decent person. She’s a proper pop star – what’s not to love?
Only thing I don’t care for is the so-called fued with Katy Perry. I don’t know if it’s a real beef or just manufactured shite but it’s all a bit tiresome to me. They’re both great pop stars – can’t they exist without having to hate each other?
But other than that, it’s all good.
Watch the “You Need To Calm Down” video above. Features Katy & Taylor making up and being friends again. IT’S OVER!
Pop music is the problem,: “we” are the generation brought up to look down on pop and the single, other than as a guilty pleasure, in the same way those before us may have looked down on anything other than classical. Now, in post-rock days, with genres erupting out of more orifices than do hairs, and with our so-called gods (Heppo as an example, say) now telling us it’s OK, still “we” falter, still “we” struggle. Or that’s my theory. We just old, daddio.
Personally I just haven’t heard the Swifts, the Perrys or even the Eilishes: it isn’t in my listening zone. I don’t listen to the radio and there is no, sadly, I think, no TOTP. I can live with the fact I have stolen the music of my childrens generation to sit along side that of my own (and earlier.) I can leave my grandchildrens music to them. Unless, of course, it strays into my field. And it hasn’t yet.
Marvellous thread, DrJ. Count me in as another fan of Ms Swift.
I find this all very refreshing. First we had Locust waxing lyrical about Robyn and now all this enthusiasm for Taylor. Well I never!
I do understand where Gary is coming from. To encounter an artist that has an enormous number of fans and to be utterly incapable of understanding what all the fuss is about.
Nicki Minaj does that for me.
I saw part of her gig at Roskilde once. It was like an enormous lingerie fashion show. Harumph!
Thanks for posting, @DrJ.
I thought, of the 4 videos, the first and last I could take or leave. The second was absolutely fabulous, great lyrics, amazing, overwhelming video with more cultural reference points than I could point a stick at, music which drew on many influences (I could hear Kylie and Black among others in there). The third – the Humpty Dumpty song – I could imagine being a real crowd-pleaser (is it what young people call a ‘banger’?), with the audience joining in every syllable off every word, growing to a bigger crescendo than in that version which oddly ended with a bit of a whimper.
I’m not sure I’d go out of my way to listen to Taylor Swift, but it’s good to have it brought to the blog. Billie Eilish, who I’d never heard of before (what a surprise), frankly scares me. Which is probably how it should be.
On thread-trolling, as long as it’s done in an amicable spirit, it’s ok, isn’t it? I remember a Mojo Working thread on Beck (Jeff, of course), which started off with the statement ‘everyone’s for an opinion on Jeff Beck’. I felt compelled to post – ‘Well, I haven’t’. This pleased Mojo no end, naturally.
everyone’s got
Can’t wait for this too. 1989 is one of my favourite albums ever released & it is my belief that TS on a bad day is better than most on a good.
Pop music at it’s purest.
She’s going to re-record her first 5 albums next year
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-49432817
Jeff Lynne did that, didn’t he? Recorded new versions of old albums that were exactly the same to reassert ownership.
Yeah he did a selection of hits, as did Squeeze
And Simply Red.
Gosh, sometimes, ok most of the times, I feel very old. https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/taylor-swift-lover-is-a-guaranteed-success-873520/
ps Gary, “Red” is simply an outstanding piece of art
Has it got this one on it?
That’s brill! Whoever said Jedward is disposable fluff is a fool.
I have to agree there. Red is the only King Crimson album I really love. I think, because it essentially jazz. Heavy jazz at that. Definitely an outstanding piece of art.
I’d rather listen to all-day Jed than 5 seconds of heavy jazz. Man alive, Crimson’s “Red” is truly, mind-boggingly awful
I see that “Lover” has 18 tracks and clocks in at over an hour. In the days when vinyl stalked the Earth this would be a double album, and folk would be mentally putting it in a separate class of “Double LP’s” and comparing it to other classic doubles, but like many records released since CD’s and then downloads/streaming came to the fore this is simply not remarked upon.
I thought exactly the same when ‘Voice Of A Rebel’ was released two months ago. 22 tracks clocking in at about 80 mins.
It crossed my mind, Emcee that it’s a long ‘un alright.
I’ve just given it a listen but it’s a bit of a marathon alright. There are some decent tunes but maybe a bit of a trim would’ve been no harm.
Yup, some corking tunes in there but it’s at least fifteen minutes too long
She was named after James Taylor. What else is there to know?
All joking apart, shes really not my cup of tea music wise, but theres (IMO) no denying her enormous talent both as performer and songwriter. Comparing her to Jedward is way off the mark
Why is it? Easy to say that, everyone has, but not one person has said why. Why is Bad Behaviour worse than Shake It Off? Why is Voice Of A Rebel worse than Lover?
I’d respectfully suggest that it should be up to you, Gary, to say why Voice Of A Rebel is better than Lover. Apart from the fact that it’s just good manners, we can then be sure that you aren’t just trolling, you know, for laffs
But I don’t think it is better. I think they’re equally awful. That’s my whole point. I hear nothing of value in either. I think they’re pretty much interchangeable. And if that’s seen as trolling then what’s the point in expressing opinions?
I’m pretty surprised by two things now: yes, the AW’s admiration for Taylor Swift, but also the idea that it’s bad manners to diss a pop star’s music here. (Or anywhere, come to that, but here of all places.) I remember Disappointment Bob once apologising to me for having slagged off Pink Floyd. Nice of him to worry about offending me, but at the same time, as I said to him back then, how could it possibly offend me? As if I could give two hoots whether someone I’ve never met slags off some band I quite enjoy listening to! I find the whole notion most odd and not something I can relate to at all. I’m very surprised to find that, judging from some reactions, it seems to be the accepted norm.
Many years ago, I almost split up with a girlfriend over this very issue. The band in question was Steely Dan. It wasn’t long before she dumped me.
Nowadays, I’m with you, Gary. I don’t care if people diss *my* bands. Hell. I even praise Hip Hop on The Afterword.
As for Taylor Swift, she is obviously a skilled singer, musician, songwriter and has Gary’s good looks but she doesn’t float my boat. However, she gets extra points for disliking Trump:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/aug/23/taylor-swift-trump-thinks-his-presidency-autocracy
But Gary aren’t you just falling into the old trap of “I can’t see what’s good about X”? Memory says that you have listed records on here that you obviously love but I simply couldn’t listen to for more than five seconds.
Saying all that, why anyone could bear more than five seconds of prog or heavy metal is a mystery I will never solve.
Each to his or her own, eh?
Exactamundis. “I can’t see what’s good about X (Taylor Swift).” That’s it. That’s very much all I’m saying. Why do people think she’s great when to me she sounds as childish and bland as Jedward? People can ignore my opinion or respond to it, as they like, but I don’t think I should feel bad about expressing it. I’d have thought that part of the reason the AW exists is so that people can say “I like this” or “I don’t like that” and either be ignored or have a chat about it.
Exactamundis. Although I’m not sure about this agreeing with someone on here stuff, even Gaz Junior, – it somehow doesn’t feel right
You’re absolutely right, no one should be offended by opinions.
And it’s not trolling to suggest you don’t like something. Perhaps ‘manners’ was the wrong terminology.
I’m sure you accept that I can disagree with you, and that doesn’t mean I’m right or that you’re wrong. The problem with suggesting that someone is offended is that when that person tries to explain that they aren’t offended they tend to sound, well, offended. Haha.
I think where people are liable to take offence is where the view is expressed not so much as ‘I don’t like or get that music myself’, but more as ‘that music is crap’. The latter is also saying by implication that I am obviously right and you clearly have no musical taste if you think differently. I have someone like this at work who is prone to dismiss everything from Stravinsky to Led Zeppelin as ‘shit’ when what he really means, is simply that he doesn’t like it.
Next thing you’ll be trying to tell me the godesses of Hepburn shouldn’t be on the AW.
Given it was written by Phil Thornalley, it can stay
With two b-sides, both written and recorded by Boo Hewerdine in one tea-and-toast fuelled session in his home basement studio. Two of his best pop songs. Not a bad morning’s work.
So good it featured in Season 1 of Buffy.
My good god, I really had forgotten that this is the song I want to hear as my coffin creaks its way to the fiery abyss.
I was planning on having you stuffed.
Remember that night on Anzio Beach? You said “I’m not sure about all these landmines” and I said “Don’t be silly, nothing to worry about. Let’s just hold hands and walk into the sea”.
And you had a snorkel.
At least I think it was a snorkel.
The one which has set Twitter off is London Boy, with its
People are pointing out what pain the journey on the tube and overground from Shoreditch to Brixton is, without realising that if she had the time Taylor could take the 35 bus from Gresham Street all the way to Brixton (though she should be advised that TFL currently have a route alert warning of diversions around Liverpool Street – don’t mention it, Taylor, you’re welcome). The later leg from Brixton to Highgate is a simple 2 stage tube journey which takes less time than I’ve sometimes spent in the pissing rain waiting for a bus to turn up.
But everyone knows that Taylor travels exclusively by sedan chair, carried forth on the shoulders of oiled flunkeys.
…or is that just that dream I had?
Haven’t got through the whole album yet, but have played this to death today…
I wish Taylor had stayed seventeen… this is so heartachingly beautiful I might just cry
It’s great, isn’t it? Can’t wait for *someone* to post the Jedward songs that are apparently as good as this.
Assuming you mean me, Doc, I’m afraid I can’t find any slow songs by Jedward. Sorry to disappoint. (But all of Voice Of A Rebel is on youtube if you want to hear it. I reckon you’ll love it.)
Btw, I was reading a review of the album earlier and was interested to see that Swift uses the same co-writers as Post Malone (who I like very much).
Hands off of Jedward! They’re great!
This was apparently written just for Gary
Taylor Swift: ‘I was literally about to break’
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/aug/24/taylor-swift-pop-music-hunger-games-gladiators?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
I was like literally OMG, lol. (etc.)
Actually, we have a lot in common. I’m quite sure I need metaphors to understand anything that happens to me too (whatever that means). And I’ve probably inadvertently allowed the alt-right to adopt me as their Aryan princess.
Ok, it’s on Amazon Music so I played it this morning – open mind, open ears, giving it a fair go. Twice, in fact. Not that I can recall a single note or word. I doubt that further plays would reveal any hidden depths because I strongly suspect there are none, and that’s fine.
It didn’t make me listen, or think. It didn’t even make me want to dance. I suppose it passed the time pleasantly enough and I didn’t actively dislike it, but there is absolutely nothing nourishing or rewarding there.
I then pulled up a Kathryn Williams album which was a fast acting antidote to the Taylor Swift induced ennui.
Don’t bother checking out Jedward’s Voice Of A Rebel. You probably won’t like that either.
Kathryn Williams or Jedward? That’s a toughie…
Actually not so tough. Me, a desert island and Jedward…. there’s a lobster on the Barbie, some coconut hooch in my glass and I’m wondering which adorable puppy is in my grass hut tonight
I love it when worlds collide…
https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/taylor-swift-writing-song-called-hull-lady-20190826188494
Fake news. No-one in Hull says “croggy”.