I must admit, I did not see that coming.
4CD set for £20 includes 3rd CD of remixes & b-sides and Irvine Meadows live set. Yes please.
2CD, 2LP or 2 Cassette.
Three 12″ singles for £18 each, no thanks.
https://superdeluxeedition.com/news/new-order-substance-1987-reissue/
Hmmm. I can’t really see the point of this, because for me it might be one of the best and most perfect compilations ever. It already sounded fantastic too. However…it is tempting.
The main draw for me is the live gig (I have a bootleg, natch).
I can live without the CD3 tracks, half of which were the extra tracks on the original Substance cassette, but I have them all on singles. First time on CD for one or two of them.
Wasn’t the original CD mastering dodgy? @fentonsteve
Apart from being an early digital transfer (PCM-1630 alert!), several edits to fit the 74-minute CD run time, and pressed at PDO (my original copy suffered PDO Disc Rot).
This version will, I imagine, like the rest of the NO reissues, be done by Frank Arkwright at Abbey Road. The rest of his work (e.g. The Divine Comedy deluxe editions) is excellent.
Is the live stuff any good, S? Remember NO were terribly patchy on stage during their early years due to the limitations of the rather primitive equipment of the time. Their performance on the VHS of Tavas Schevenko a mate of mine was dreadful
They took a while to hit their stride live, which I would say was about 84/85. They could still have off nights due to equipment breakdown or Barney consuming too much Pernod.
There are plenty of bootlegs of the Irvine Meadows set (a sound desk recording), so have a listen on Youtube and see what you think.
As my original copy is on its last legs – there are hints of deterioration/CD rot around the edges on the non playing side, I’ll be buying it regardless – the live show is just a bonus.
Having checked things – and also possessing the Irvine Meadows gig on an “ROIO” CD which is of very good sound quality – I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the source of this disc…
…Hooky and The Light at the Hammersmith Palais (or whatever it is called these days) doing both the Joy Division and New Order Substance albums next month. Very much looking forward to that!
They did a tour of those two albums in about 2018. Caught the Dublin show – the three hours flew by. Wonderful night.
I’m in!
Extremely reasonably priced on CD.
In this case not so good to be in Canada (50 quid!)
We’ll do a deal!
Actually it appears I will be in London on release day so will be heading to Fopp, hoping it’s the same price as the dodgers
Just under £20 for 4 CDs – an absolute steal.
While have the original two-CD set from 87, both discs have been played to death
and could do with an update.
As someone says on SDE, this is how reissues ought to be done (if not quite up there with the bells and whistles XTC 5.1s)
Due to the odd (no contract, no ownership) setup at Factory, the death of Rob Gretton, the death of Martin Hannett, the bankrupting of Factory, etc… I don’t think the multitrack master tapes are in anyone’s possession, so making a XTC-style affair is nigh-on impossible. And, presumably, Hooky would have to sign any new mix off.
Those that are were rescued from a skip outside Strawberry Studios by someone who was/is holding them to ransom. I don’t think that was ever resolved.
The ‘A Collection’ video compilation DVD had some 5.1 mixes of a few tracks.
The first ‘cool’ album I bought. I was 14 and saw True Faith on TOTP and bought Substance tsoon after. No idea who they were. Loved it ever since. It probably is the only perfect compilation.
I then bought Joy Division’s Substance when it came out and thought wtf? Took many years to appreciate it.
I was kind of the opposite – I was big into Joy Division, took me ages to accept/get the hang of New Order. I bought “Ceremony/In a Lonely Place”, of course…
I was too young for JD, there didn’t seem to be any tunes apart from Atmosphere and Love will tear us apart. How was this the same bunch who recorded True Faith? These days I’d probably take them to a desert island.
Do they have a standard track list across the formats?
The A-sides on the double LP is the same as CD1, just like in the olden days.
Then, in typical Factory style, it all goes a bit bonkers.
Substance was the first cd I bought, I think. I’ll be going for this upgrade too.
Me too! Along with V.U. by the Velvets, bought at same time
I know that the cassette had additional tracks, but if I remember correctly, it also had slightly longer versions of some of the tracks (Perfect Kiss).
Does this new edition follow the original CD versions or have the slightly longer cassette versions?
In typical Factory style, I think it is going to feature the edited versions as per the original release. There’s no DAT this time.
From Discogs:
”
“Ceremony” is the 1981 re-recorded version with Gillian Gilbert, “Temptation” and “Confusion” are May 1987 re-recordings, and “Subculture”, “Shellshock”, and “Hurt” are edited versions; CD and DAT copies additionally contain a version of “The Perfect Kiss” where the climactic final is edited down by 44 seconds. These alterations were implemented due to storage limitations of physical media in 1987, and have remained in place on reissues.
Additionally, all of the 24- or 28-track editions confuse the song titles “Cries and Whispers” and “Mesh” (owing to the tracks being improperly ordered on the rear sleeve for the 12″ release of “Everything’s Gone Green” in 1981), misname “The Perfect Kiss” and “Sub-Culture” “Perfect Kiss” and “Subculture” (respectively), and place A-sides “Procession” and “Murder” on the second CD/DAT, which is otherwise relegated to B-sides; the latter anomaly is not present on cassette copies. “
Woof. There are days when I realise that maybe I’m not a real collector…
…I’ll get me long raincoat…
I remember being gutted when I discovered the cassette had loads of extra stuff. Now of course I’m delighted I bought the vinyl. The cassette would have been thrown away 20 odd years ago.
My Substance confession. Until a few years ago I hadn’t realised Temptation was a re-record. However against the grain it goes the Substance version is in my top ten songs of all time while the original just sounds pretty good. First impressions are important.
100% agree with this. The Substance version is the ultimate version of Temptation, the way it fades in is one of the most perfect openings of a song. i am going to go & put this on now
I didn’t know there were two versions. I think I only know the single version. I remember being very disappointed to the point of incredulity when I first heard it. It was the first thing I heard of theirs and I couldn’t believe that the loss of Ian Curtis meant going from things like “So this is permanence, love’s shattered pride, what once was innocence, turned on its side” to “Up down, turn around, please don’t let me hit the ground”. I’ve since come to like it though.
I’d argue that the ultimate version of Temptation is the one live at Maida Vale from the Rock Around The Clock TV show, which has never been officially released… annoyingly, as it would have fit perfectly on the Low Life Deluxe Edition DVDs.
I may have mentioned this before. More than once.
Going to have to stick up for the original 12″ version here – 8:47 of brilliance. Feel that this kind of rerecording is really about rights and ownership rather than having anything new to say about the song. Understand why they’re done.
The legal ownership thing is often the case, but not here. In the case of the 87 version, it was to capture a recording of the way they played it live, IIRC.
For something sequenced, it varies a lot live. That’s because the sequences are triggered by SM’s drums, so he can keep it going for as long as he likes, as long as he keeps hitting things.
I remember buying Temptation as a 33rpm 7″ single which means it would have been a long version of the song. So – was that any different from the version on the 45 rpm 12″ single?
The 7″ version [5:16] goes straight in without the long fade of the 12″ [8:45]
Hurt on the 7″ b-side [4:42] is an entirely different mix to the 12″ [8:13].
Being a NO completist is hard work.
Thanks! I’m really sorry, but I bought it after DLT played it and raved about it. I know we can work through this.
And … do you know if there are available versions of the Sunkist session?
@Black-Celebration
DLT?
That’s you no platform-shoed then
Hard to believe. I was about 14 though and he played records on Radio 1. Once in a blue moon he’ll play a really good one.
No, the Sunkist thing was never released but it was on Youtube the last time I looked.
If you think keeping track of Temptation is difficult, the Everything’s Gone Green 7″ and 12″ are entirely different recordings!
@fentonsteve NO are one of my favourite bands but, having basically stuck to the albums and Substance I suspect I’ve missed a vast amount. Every compilation and reissue seems to contain different versions. Is there anywhere that gives a reasonably complete and non-confusing idea of what has come out over time?
A worthy companion to the 12″ collection Substance 1987 is the 7″ collection Singles. Be sure to get the 32-track 2CD version from 2016, not because the extra track, I’ll Stay With You, is essential listening, but because the mastering was atrocious on the 2005 (31-track) original.
2002’s 4CD box set, Retro, is a bit of a curate’s egg, really only worth it for the live CD and the (yes, I do have it) limited edition bonus 5th CD. Now out of print, but I can – cough – ‘help’.
(the rest of) is 1995’s dance-version companion to 1994’s (the best of), and available cheap as chips. Don’t bother with the limited-edition 2CD version, which features an hour of ‘bonus’ doof-doof remixes of Blue Monday.
2017’s 3CD set New Order Presents Be Music only features one NO track (a 22-minute version of 5-8-6) but 35 other artists produced by various combinations of the four of them. Excellent stuff and pretty cheap.
I don’t actually have physical copies of everything, my pockets and patience are not limitless, but I have most, and between me and some post-punk pals I’ve heard almost everything. The number of truly essential tracks since 1993 would struggle to fill one album.
Anyone for an hour-long promo CD of doof-doof remixes of Guilt Is A Useless Emotion? Thought not. I’ve not even played it all the way through.
Thank you!
Oh, and get yourself a copy of the 3 16 DVD (currently £1.48 from the Magpie) which features almost all of 1998’s Reading Festival comeback gig. I was there and the crowd surge upon the opening chords of Regret were one of those joyous festival-as-community moments (now 25 years ago!)
Yes I was at Reading that year too and I think the start of Regret might be my favourite live music moment ever.
And poor old Garbage had to go on after. We saw one song and left.
@Guiri check your PMs
@fentonsteve That’s much appreciated! Very kind.
@Guiri further ‘help’ is in your PMs.
As a former Depeche Mode completist, I can sympathise with the hell of an hour long CD of doof-doof remixes of an album’s fourth single.
Hmm. Now, if it had been their ’89 Reading gig, I’d have been in…
Let me ask. I can ‘help’ with 1993.
I love New Order as much as any other musical act, and Substance is a big part of that love. But I’m not and can’t be a completist, so I’ve got nothing much to contribute to this thread, frustratingly.
The instinctive Pavlovian feeling I get when one of many of their tracks kick off, the bliss of floating off to the full length Elegia, the joy of discovering a new song I hadn’t really listened to much before, Hook’s bass rumble vibrating through my diaphragm, Barney’s throwaway lines, thrashing guitar and ecstatic yelps, Gillian’s surround sound synths, Stephen’s insistent drumming, etc, just doesn’t seem to have its place here.
I’ll let you all get back to your Discogs pondering now.
on the 12″ singles, I did buy the reissues of Temptation and The Perfect Kiss, as they are two of the standout NO tracks for me. They’re really good pressings, great sound and barely any surface noise. All reissues should be done to their standard. I might go back in for True Faith this time round.