Joe Biden pardons Hunter and skedaddles to Africa leaving his aides to handle the flak
Meet the old boss, same as the new boss
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Musings on the byways of popular culture
Musings on the byways of popular culture
Joe Biden pardons Hunter and skedaddles to Africa leaving his aides to handle the flak
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/01/joe-biden-pardons-hunter
In just under 5 years time, Trump has elected himself permanent King Of America and in the UK Nigel Farage has the keys to Number 10….
Reports this morning that Musk is planning to donate 100 million to Farage won’t hurt that prediction.
OK, I’ll bite…
I think it’s a false equivalence to say “meet the new boss same as the old boss“ as if a near octogenarian with nothing left to do/prove wasn’t going to pardon his only living son for a crime that has been celebrated by Biden‘s predecessor/successor, namely tax evasion. Oh by the way, Biden Junior repaid all the taxes.
If you want to proceed with the false equivalence, let’s just see what chaos reigns when the incoming regime starts an acting its planned schemes of vengeance, starting with pardoning all of the January 6 terrorists. The consequences of all this will be very different to the consequences of pardoning Hunter Biden. But yeah, they’re all the same blah blah blah.
But context is the last thing that will be on anyone’s mind, as they read their headlines. As such, an excuse fails to become reasonable.
At this point, Retro, I am well beyond caring about excuses. It really is every bastard for himself at this point. All we have now is headlines. In half an hour there’ll be another one. Maybe in two minutes.
It’s come to a sorry pass when an AWer gets pulled up for jokey musical reference in
a thread title (even if it is about US politics)
Biden repeatedly said a pardon for his son was not going to happen.
Given the way they fucked up this election, a lot of Dems are up in arms
about his volte face.
FWIW, HB’s pardon also covers his lying on an application to get a gun and is backdated
to 2014
Think most of us thought your OP was about the pardon itself with a jokey musical reference thrown in.
For what it’s worth, I think there is a definite Old Boss/New Boss vibe about Biden’s decision and it just reinforces the general view that “All politicians are the same, they all lie so I’ll vote for Trump/Farage or whoever it is can help me buy some groceries or, who knows, even a house one day…”
Talk in the Times this am that Musk might give Farage £100,000,000 worth of funding ahead of the next election – more than enough for NF (something I can’t put my finger on about those initials) to set up an office in every constituency in the UK.
With populism on the rise across Europe, FGK’s majority wide but worryingly shallow, I think Reform are going to win over a lot of disaffected voters in the next GE
I think its reasonable for Biden to have decided that all bets were off, all promises meaningless, all truths no better than a lie. You really wouldn’t opt to let your son go free from being harassed by this mob?
Lying on an application to get a gun is hardly a nefarious crime is it? The people doing all the background checks would all know very well who Hunter Biden is.
This is all bollocks and I am completely pissed off with politics in general because it is clear none of them can be trusted (as Lodestone says further down).
I voted for Starmer in this recent election in the hope that he would be a cut above. Transpires he is an arsehole too.
Trump’s legacy has been to drag so much of US politics down, if not to his level, then at least towards it.
Ten years ago this would have been recognised as a completely glaring abuse of power. This morning, people are celebrating because it upsets the red team, or excusing it because the other side would (and no doubt will) do the same.
There is no excuse. The Presidential pardon arguably shouldn’t exist at all, but it certainly wasn’t created so that leaders could pardon their own kids.
I think more used in the past for people who have actually served time. He hadn’t even been sentenced yet. Disgraceful.
It might be disgraceful. But can anyone tell any more? The hench man won’t even face a trial for Jan 6. Will spend no time in jail for a rape for which he was convicted. Pays no taxes. Disgraceful? Is there such a thing as grace to be dissed?
I agree with those that argue that presidential pardons shouldn’t exist but they do. That’s the reality and just as Trump will undoubtedly take full advantage of them when he takes office as he did the previous time he infested the Oval Office so has Biden. I think that is regrettable but completely understandable under the circumstances. Hunter Biden is vulnerable, his problems are well documented, there is no need to reiterate them here. Joe Biden has acted as a father. He is protecting his son. I can completely understand that. I know that in his position, perish the thought, I would have done exactly the same.
As I think, virtually everybody here would. I would lie for my daughter.
“82 year old man sh*ts the bed”.
No, seriously: Biden’s legacy, compared to many, was pretty good, Jack. (People will argue he spoiled it by not stepping down sooner but Kamala wasn’t winning even if she had two years to prepare).
Don’t agree. His support for Israel’s effective genocide in Gaza is not a good look. He also seems to have escalated things in Ukraine as he makes his way out.
Not a good look? What would be a “good look?” Israel are led by a war criminal. Israel were also attacked by terrorists.
The sad fact is no U.S. president’s legacy was diminished within his own country by the stacked corpses of innocent foreigners of whatever complexion..
Had he done the decent and sensible thing and stepped down sooner, it’s doubtful Kamala would have made it past the first couple of primaries.
As it stands now – dodgy stance on Israel and recklessness in allowing Zelensky to target US missiles inside Russia – his legacy is starting to look shabbier and shabbier with every passing day
Re KH – what’s that saying about hindsight again?
No hindsight on my part – I was hauled over the coals many many times by other AWers when I called her candidacy out for the substance-free vacuum it really was
Perhaps not hindsight then, but she didn’t enter any primaries so we can’t know how well she would have done.
The primaries from four years earlier are a pretty good guide. Jay believes a different Dem candidate would have won. I don’t.
Don’t recall saying that a different Dem candidate would definitely have won, just that they would have had a far better chance of beating Trump than Kamala.
IIRC, her 2020 campaign was dead and buried before 2020 had even started
I completely hauled you over the coals. I’ll own it.
Well you tried.
The point is surely not “it’s exactly what Trump would do” or how trivial the crimes he’s been pardoned for are, it’s that the Dems have cleverly given ammunition to Trump to do the same.
The Dems really need a root and branch strategy reset. Their efforts since before Obama’s 2nd term have swung between questionable and woeful.
He hasn’t just pardoned him for the trivial crimes either. He’s pardoned him for “offenses against the United States which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 1, 2014 through December 1, 2024.”
Hell of a moment to walk back that “no one is above the law” statement.
Trump doesn’t require ammunition to do likewise. In his first four years in office he granted pardons to seventy three and commuted the sentences of another seventy. He’ll do exactly the same again only more so. There is nobody and nothing to stop him.
The 237 people Trump pardoned is a fraction of the 1972 Barack Obama pardoned
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_or_granted_clemency_by_the_president_of_the_United_States
It’s nothing new. Clinton granted pardons as did Gerald Ford to name but two. My take on this is very simple and direct. Putting aside all other considerations this is a man who is doing everything in his power to protect his vulnerable son. I think that’s entirely understandable on a human level. I leave it to others to debate themselves into knots over whether it’s legitimate, moral or advisable.
See I reckon as a good Christian Joe should have let his son get crucified and play the long game. Look how it worked out for God and Jesus. 2000 years and still in power, and the lad was home at his dad’s right hand three days later
Did you find religion after all?
Can you imagine how Hunter Biden would be treated in prison under a Trump presidency, after the way the Republicans went for him over the past few years. Slim chance of him coming out alive, IMO.
Indeed.
You’re being dishonest.
A large number of Obama pardons were for non-violent drug offences.
Trump pardoned his son-in-law’s father who had been convicted of tax evasion, and convicted war criminals amongst others.
What does Wiki say about the Trump pardons? “Of the pardons and commutations that Trump did grant, the vast majority were to persons to whom Trump had a personal or political connection, or persons for whom executive clemency served a political goal.[2][3][4] A significant number had been convicted of fraud or public corruption.[5] The New York Times reported that during the closing days of the Trump presidency, individuals with access to the administration, such as former administration officials, were soliciting fees to lobby for presidential pardons.[6]”
Oh.
How is posting a comment-free link to a Wikipedia page that contextualizes a claim made by another poster in any way
dishonest?
Comparing Obama’s presidential pardons with Trump’s is not a like-to-like comparison.
But “dishonest” is not a good word to use in disputing the comparison. It implies intent to deceive, which is by no means proven.
It might not be proven, but it is my opinion.
It’s misleading by omission. I don’t believe the omission to be an accident.
Accusing another AWer of “dishonesty” twice within the space of two days on the basis of a link to a Wikipedia page is not expressing an “opinion”.
It is trolling pure and simple.
Odd how someone who professes to detest Trump so profoundly has no qualms about adopting his bullying tactics to try and intimidate anyone whose posting style he does not care for.
If I’m forced to post the clarifications to someone’s else’s post in order that their post isn’t as misleading as intended, what would you call it?
It certainly wasn’t the whole truth, was it?
Bullying? Please. A pity that someone so committed to policing everything that they can’t post the full truth.
Sorry, mate.
Three weeks of living rent-free in your head is more than enough.
Not going to ack acknowledge – or respond to – your unwarranted personal attacks on me re this or indeed any other matter beyond this point.
Attempt to defame me again and I will, however, have no hesitation in reporting your trolling to the board mods for breaching AW posting guidelines
Someone posted this in another thread:
“If you are offended it is your problem, and frankly lots of things offend lots of people.”
Words to live by, eh.
Trump will almost certainly pardon the 6 January rioters. There is nothing to stop anyone abusing the pardon right.
All you can do it protect your own integrity in complaining about the abuse and avoid helping to normalise it.
Trump does it, why shouldn’t we is the road to hell, particularly when it comes to judicial matters. And it’s bad politics too.
From Politico a few days ago. Trump has gone quiet on the matter.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/11/30/trump-january-6-pardons-00192036
He’s raised it again today off the back of this.
Not that what he says is much of a reliable guide to what he’ll actually do. Ugh.
I meant that this time the ability to take a slightly higher moral ground when he does it it again has been well and truly ceded.
But what use is the slightly higher moral ground? Biden has suddenly realised that the country and people he has devoted his life to, and whose traditions and institutions he has always unswervingly served – even through the politically motivated destruction of his son – just don’t share those values any more. Why do we expect the man to adhere to principles that nobody else is?
It’s certainly not what I would have expected of Joe Biden, it’s also not what he said he would do, but should he really let his son suffer god-knows-what in prison during a Trump presidency, just to show his respect for traditions that are really nothing of the sort. Clinton pardoned his own brother, and most other modern day Presidents have used them similarly.
We’ve also seen this inherent weakness in our own constitution; the unspoken traditions and norms that had been observed and adhered to for centuries, were simply trampled on and ignored by the last Tory government.
The world has changed, whether we like it or not, and it’s not going back. We need to adapt.
But Trump doesn’t need ammunition. He thinks a news report on his hair is ammunition.
“Politician Disappoints An Idealistic Public!” – hold the front page!!
The more I think about this, the more I suspect that I would follow Pencil’s line –
if it was one of my own children, I’d do the same as Biden…
Exactly this.
What’s Biden going to do? “Ah sure, I’ll leave it. Hunter will be fairly treated by the new administration”
Yeah, right.
I suppose you could be angry that Biden has legitimised what Trump was always going to do anyway. But this feels like the final capitulation to chaos. Save your loved ones while you can, eh Joe
What he should do next is challenge the election result. Close the loop. When they go low, we go aye.
Yes – exactly – save my loved ones while I can. Come on, man. Will you have a look out the window.
As someone pointed out the other day, unfettered social media has effectively killed democratic politics of the party variety.
All of them are floundering without the foggiest idea, in the face of universal discontent with them and with our broken society.
Q: Would the Democrats have done any worse in the election if Joe Biden had not made way for Kamala Harris?
Steve Bannon apparently urged Trump not to debate Biden
Perhaps he should come out tomorrow and say ” Did I do something yesterday?…I did *what*? Gee folks, dementia’s a bitch, ain’t it?”
He was going to but forgot to tell his aides to make the statement before he flew off to Africa to avoíd the inevitable media shitstorm.
On a side note, Donald Trump has read your post and thanks you heartily for providing him with several years of future legal defense strategies
Well that was fast
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/03/trump-hush-money-case
We can’t leave this comment in the relevant place in this thread for technical reasons but can we please just remind everyone to avoid personal criticisms in the midst of discussions.
Clearly some topics turn out to be contentious but if they reach the point where you feel the need to criticise another member then maybe it’s the time to back away before you do that.
As we try to point out every time, the Afterword is not Twitter
Maybe just ban politics from this site? Isn’t it supposed to be about music, films, TV etc? Can’t remember if we had any politics on the original magazine site. There are a billion places to discuss politics, am sure I have been guilty of it myself here, but it ain’t necessary
Popular Culture is in the remit. Politics is part of that too.
Just need to keep cool heads when we disagree.
Three cheers for The Mods, etc.
Not sure that we should ban politics or indeed anything on here. The breadth of stuff we cover, usually convivially, is amazing.
Hey kids, can’t we just all get along?