I really know little of the subtleties of current Irish and N Irish politics and I am interested to learn your opinions on the likely impact of the Conservative/DUP arrangement. In particular is it a threat to the ‘peace process’?
May’s Coalition of Chaos
Excellent question. It seems to be a case of any port in a storm.
For a second I thought the Bohemian Rapsody Hitmaker had a new band.
Isn’t that funny, my first thought was your man out of the Pretty Things.
He did. But I’m not referring to and we have little to fear of Mick Hucknall.
Not bloody Mick Hucknall, of course. Where did that come from?
Mind you, have you seen any of Mick’s recent mugshots? What a handsome fella.
Anyway, back to Theresa and the I & NI’s?
Caused by a debilitating illness, hypothyroidism, actually.
Oh! I had no idea. Apologies, etc.
(That wasn’t mentioned in the Express picture caption).
“we have little to fear of Mick Hucknall”, accidental or not, this is profoundly inaccurate.
I don’t quite see why it can’t work as long as astute political leadership and pragmatic common sense prevails on both sides.
Both parties believe in Brexit. Both want access to the Single Market. Both want a frictionless border with the Republic of Ireland. Both strongly believe in the UK and the Union.
There seems to be a lot of confected media hysteria about the DUP’s history as a hard line Unionist Party and their views on gay marriage and abortion. But I’d be surprised if a smart politician like Arlene Foster is going to make a list of demands that would only alienate mainstream opinion in Westminster (and in Great Britain) on both of these issues – which in any case have long been the subjects of “free votes” for MPs.
Personally, I think the main question is not whether a Tory/DUP arrangement can work on the big issues like Brexit. economy, security, health, and education, but whether Theresa May will be around much longer to lead it.
Don’t underestimate Arlene Foster and Nigel Dodds. They are both highly capable politicians who have been dealing with Gerry Adams, Sinn Fein and the IRA for decades.
But how are the UK govt supposed to neutrally broker the resumption of power sharing in NI when they owe their existence to one of the parties?
I don’t know what the problem with the border is. Everyone wants it to stay as it is… post-Brexit wouldn’t it just be down to an agreement between the UK and Ireland? Or does the EU have the right to impose a hard border?
As things stand there are hard borders between the EU and Non-EU countries.
For there to be an exception between the Irish Republic and Post-Brexit Northern Ireland, would I think require the consent of the rest of the EU as well as that of the Republic. I don’t think any other EU states have their own cross-border agreements with outside states, so it would be a precedent.
Not impossible, but difficult to get such an agreement through as it could lead to other states wanting their own exemptions later on.
Sweden / Norway isn’t a hard border I don’t think.
I’ve tended to think that this talk of “taking control of our borders” is overheated if you’re not in Schengen, as we aren’t – isn’t it a case of properly resourcing existing border controls? Maybe I’m wrong.
It certainly isn’t between Denmark and Sweden, you can get the train across The Bridge without showing your passport
Maybe so, but as various Scandi-noir crime dramas can confirm, dreadful things may happen to you on the way across…
But they’re both in the EU and Schengen. Norway isn’t in the EU (is it in Schengen?)
Apparently the EFTA states have an agreement along the same lines as Schengen. So The Norway/Sweden border is soft for that reason.
Ta. Do other EEA nations have something similar? What’s the deal with the Swiss border?Is it full of holes? (sorry )
Yes, there’s a clear threat to any successful resurrection of the Northern Ireland Assembly, which was already reeling after Martin McGuinness’s resignation and subsequent passing. The fact that he and Paisley found a way of working together after so much mutual mistrust, even hatred, was hugely symbolic as well as being crucial to the ongoing stability of the process. Now, not only have these figures gone, but as Alasdair Campbell highlighted on QT yesterday, the UK governing party which is meant to be the ‘honest broker’ of any negotiations to restore the NI power-sharing agreements is totally dependent on one of the parties involved. Gerry Adams has already said that every previous Tory-DUP alliance has ‘ended in tears’. This doesn’t bode well at all, particularly in view of the reasons behind the collapse of the Assembly.
You’re quite right.
Both sides will need to be very careful so that the “confidence and supply” arrangement on national matters led by Westminster does not cut across devolved issues at Stormont. For example, the DUP will not be able to support a UK Govt Budget that could unfairly affect public spending on N Ireland’s health and social services. But one would hope that the Tories will not be so stupid as to create that kind of scenario.
But I think this whole idea of “neutrality” is overdone. In reality the Westminster Govt underpins the Unionist side of the political divide in N Ireland, just as the Irish Government underpins the nationalists. That was always apparent throughout the whole peace process right from the start.
Also, we have a situation where a N Ireland pro-UK party that actually sits and votes in Westminster is supporting the main UK party that won the General Election, while the other major N Ireland party that is anti-UK does not sit and vote in Westminster and was responsible for bringing down Stormont. Gerry Adams’ comments need to seen in that context.
As for Alistair Campbell. He’s hardly the most objective commentator when it comes to Brexit, the Tories – or indeed anything related to his own party – these days.
I wouldn’t underestimate any politician involved in the practical reality of Irish/N Irish politics in recent years. They have determined their own success.
I would perhaps be concerned that a joint initiative may be undermined by the likliehood that May is finished and ad hoc agreements/initiatives/IOU’s will come to nothing.
And, of course, the potential repercussions of any perceived short term gain which may go unfulfilled.
The DUP are a grim shower. They have a history of po-faced intransigence. It was a real breakthrough when Ian Paisley (senior) somehow forged a working relationship with Martin McGuinness (Sinn Fein). Both of those big beasts are now gone. One would have thought that, in terms of progress, changing generations, etc. would be generally a positive thing. Unfortunately things don’t always run smoothly like that. Peter Robinson – long Paisley’s lieutenant, a dour figure from the 70s in aviator shades – succeeded IP, changed his glasses, and was surprisingly able to show a certain degree of pragmatism to keep devolved government/peace process stumbling more or less forward.
The DUP is less a party than a total-loyalty cult. Somehow, Robinson crossed a line and the beasts in his own party had him fall on his sword and he shuffled off to be replaced by an individual more arrogant and intransigent than you could imagine. Its public representatives are among the most maxed-out of expenses claimants and the most blatant of multple relatives being on the payroll. There have always been rumours about dodgy deals with property developers, houses built on greenbelts, etc. For years DUP people were double or triple jobbers (the same people being MPs, MLAS – members of the Stormont Assembly – and local councillors). I think that’s changing, but not before time.
Somehow, NI has lurched backwards in the past two elections – this one and an Assembly election earlier in the year – from inching slowly towards moderate public representatives from various parties, with talk of socially progressive policies, cooperation etc. to the bloody embarrassing and wretched ultra tribalism of the 1970s – but worse. Back in the 70s, the extremists were shouting on the sidelines and more moderate, if still opposed parties, made up the majority of NI’s Westminster representitives; now, the extremists – Sinn Fein and DUP – have ALL the NI Westminster seats (bar one, long held by a popular Independent unionist in leafy North Down) and the moderates are left out in the cold – not shouting, but probably feeling shell-shocked.
Regrettably, this is how the rest opf the world sees NI – a miserable enclave of fundamentalist Free Prebyterians and Creationists opposed to abortion (it is not legal in NI) and LGBT rights (gay marriage is not legal in NI) and former terrorists who refuse to even take up Westminster seats.
Luckily, this is a distortion of the actuality. But there is clearly a very mobiliseable rump of tribalists who can be brought out of the woodwork to vote in these bastards if and when they deem there to be a constitutional crisis looming.
This latest lurch back to the old tribalism was started when the NI Assembly collapsed earlier this year because of the RHI scandal (renewable heat initiative) – a scheme over which FirstMinister and DUP supremo Arlene Foster has personally presided. In short, around £500 million of public money has been wasted on chicken farmers (traditionally, the kind of people who vote DUP) literally heating empty sheds in the country – because the subsidy for signing up to this initiative and using its energy was GREATER than the cost of the heating itself. Burn £100 of wood pellets, get £110 from the government – something like that. Anywhere else in the UK, the person who signed off on that would be finished. Foster refused everyone’s request to even step aside temporarily as First Minister while there was a public enquiry. That’s the kind of bastard you’re dealing with. And so the Assembly collapsed. Sinn Fein, no doubt rightly, felt it was time to tell their voters there were pledges in the Good Friday Agreement from ages ago that the DUP were still vetoing – to do with the Irish language, for instance – because of a controversial mechanism in the Agreement called the ‘petition of concern’ which means that any party in the NI Assembly with more than 30 seats (as the DUP had until the last Assembly election) can play this card. It was widely felt that the DUP were abusing this, and that it was not intended for things like vetoing gay marriage etc.
That was the backdrop to the recent Assembly election. The extremes were mobilised and the upshot was that Sinn Fein got ALMOST as many seats as the DUP, and the DUP now no longer has access to this veto. Unfortunately, the Assembly is STILL collapsed – because these people can’t find a way to move forward. All these MLAs are getting public money for doing *** all for months while NI has NO government.
This is where I answer the OP’s question about how the current DUP-as-UK-power-brokers affects the ‘peace process’.
The UK government is meant to be a neutral broker in things like negotiations to get the Assembly back on its feet. How can it possibly be seen as that if everyone knows it’s crippled and utterly in the power of the DUP?
It’s not good for democracy – anywhere – to have these people propping up a national government.
The only good thing about the current situation, in my view, is that it will bring much wider scrutiny and accountability on to the DUP individually and collectively. There has been a tolerance of ‘rotten borough’ practices for decades in NI, blind eyes being turned to croneyism, rumours or actualities of things that would be front page headlines or in the courts elsewhere in the UK – all in hoc to the greater good of keeping some kind of semi-normalised regional government on the go. Having these people in Stormont is better than having them on the streets, the ethos has been.
Thankfully, in the world of the majority of people here, there has been a growing feeling that we all want these gits to stop pissing about with their huffs and tantrums and just get on with running public servioces, educations, hospitals etc. A regular local TV comedy show, The Blame Game, lampoons these people very effectively and caustically – and that in itself is massive progress. 15 years ago you would never have had political satire like that aired locally.
Hopefully, if society in general keeps going this way those in power locally – even from the DUP and Sinn Fein – will have to inch towards that.
But I just can’t see this DUP-propping-up-a-Conservative government thing lasting. I don’t think the UK population/political class will tolerate it for long, and I don’t think the DUP, if given serious national scrutiny in terms of their financial affairs, retrograde beliefs, competence in office, etc., will find it at all comfortable. They’re used to being the po-faced kings of a little castle. They’ll be exposed as a shower of money-grubbing hillbillies stuck in the 1950s.
Colin
Come off the fence for goodness sake man!
Firstly, the DUP hardly have the monopoly on the kind of political grubbiness that you describe with characteristic eloquence.
Secondly, can you think of any other Unionist politician that would “step aside” on the orders of Martin McGuinness while a public enquiry was underway? It remains to be seen whether Foster herself is directly implicated in RHI in ways that would normally involve a political resignation.
She was right to tell Martin where to go. And by taking a robust line, the DUP neutralised the other Unionists and won 10 seats. You know full well that Sinn Fein were playing a much bigger power game when they used the RHI scandal as the pretext to bring down Stormont themselves.
Thirdly, Foster is far from a swivel-eyed 1970s Paisleyite bigot, even though a father being shot by the IRA might have easily caused others to become one. I think your description of her as a “b” is a bit over done.
Living in NI year after year one’s views on the grubbiness of all of these people become more and more bolstered. I determinedly avoid watching or listening to regional news or buying regional newspapers – it’s too painful. I believe the DUP, like Sinn Fein, are a blight on the planet. They are like a polical version of the antideluvian fundamentalist on the Isle of Lewis who close down leisure centres and chain up swings in parks on Sundays – except in NI it’s not a weirdo throwback cult imposing their will on a relatively little-populated island, it’s a weirdo throwback cult now with the national government by the balls and still on paper the largest party in the currently non-existent Assembly.
I’m not much of a traveller, I’m a home person, but this election has made me open to the principle of moving somewhere else to get away from these bastards – leave them to their flags and their marches and their po-faced hectoring and go somewhere to be blissfully unaware of them. Like the Isle of Lewis.
Re: RHI/Foster – everyone was calling for her to step aside. In any other government institution in the UK the media scrutiny and real politik would have made that inevitable. But not here. The arrogance was breathtaking. I see her only as a hateful human being. You will never see a crack in DUP solidarity in public, but I have a feeling that with even Nigel Dodds or Jeffrey Donaldson there would be more possibility, however remote, of the kind of pragmatism necessary to run a government (in NI).
Yeah. But apart from all that, what sort of music are they into?
A fair amount of whistles and drums. Like early 80s Brit-funk, but without the slap-bass.
Great post Colin. Can’t disagree with anything other than “stuck in the 50s” – their time warp is much older still than that.
The DUP are indeed an unpleasant shower and have clearly added reactionary layers bearing little resemblance to mere Unionist necessity. Their Brexit decision (to support it) was counter-intuitive, given the normalisation of cross-border life since the early 90s in the context of the EU, and also considering the extent to which both parts of Ireland have been subsidised in recent years, to the advantage of everybody.
They must, therefore, have seen it as the patriotic choice. For this reason alone, they’ll presumably do their patriotic duty propping up the Tory minority government about to embark on negotiations with Europe, for as long as it takes. Any softness or wobbliness is more likely to be caused by the impatience of the Tories to get rid of Theresa May, egged on by the baying frenzy of the tabloids. It’s started already. They’ll beat the Conservatives on stamina in this deal.
On a note of hope, the DUP just might realise the potential power they have to help implement a good solution for (cross-border) Ireland, even if past performance doesn’t necessarily suggest they have the wit to overcome their deeply-ingrained positions.
What is it with their position on climate change? What Unionist/sectarian justification is there for that other than them going down a checklist of reactionary positions on everything and saying, “Well, we’ll throw that in, because where we are on the political spectrum it’s expected”
…or are local economic conditions coming into play here?
It’s just that climate change, or the overwhelming scientific evidence for its existence, predates their time-warped worldview. Compare and contrast the Creationist mob in the central USA. Common theme: does it say that in the Bible?
Bible thumpers are a crucial element in Northern Ireland, old time religious posturing, holds the place back a bit. Whereas the Republic has been scoring lots of liberal points (gay marriage, gay Taoiseach, less church, cool place).
So, historical factors rather than economic ones. Or somethin’.
The fact is that if JC (or for that matter Tim Farron) had connections with people with these beliefs who happened to be dark-skinned and have non-European names they would be torn a new one.
We ignoramuses on the mainland tend to lump “Ulster Unionists” together. This lot make David Trimble look like David Steele.
As a proud citizen of nowhere my message to the lot of them is an old master’s;
“Some thirty inches from my nose
The frontier of my Person goes,
And all the untilled air between
Is private pagus or demesne.
Stranger, unless with bedroom eyes
I beckon you to fraternize,
Beware of rudely crossing it:
I have no gun, but I can spit.”
“PERGE SCELUS MIHI DIEM PERFICIAS”
““Some thirty inches from my nose
The frontier of my Person goes”
– there’s being lucky, and just being freakish.
Bless you, bless Google – that last line took me to Christopher Grayling – never heard of him before, but he seems a fascinating man.
@salwarpe – hope that wasn’t a freudian slip – Chris Frayling is my man
Whoops! Damn predictive text. Yes, Frayling, not that idiot Grayling…
any friend of Sergio is OK by me
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Frayling
PS apparently the GE cost taxpayers £143M – and another one coming along soon.
Anyway, enough of this… let’s have some Phil May (no, not that one…)!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd4IwDntUfo
Corbyn, a minor London M.P. (who’d heard of him before 2015?), photographed with dubious types in the 1980s; Theresa May, Prime Minister no less, willing to grant considerable advantage/power to one party over another in Northern Ireland in 2017.
Wonder if The Sun will be running with “Theresa May: apologist for murderers!” anytime soon?
It would be a far more contemporary story than something that happened in 1987.
If they call themselves a “news” paper, I think they should.
Theresa May consorts with religious extremists whose medieval social attitudes are incompatible with modern liberal democracy.
At least they’re white and speak reasonably good English.
Have you *heard* “Ulster-Scots”?*
(* made-up “language” given public money in NI, invented by unionism as a linguistic counterweight to Gaelic)
This programme is a reminder of the staggering variety of accents in Ulster. Takes me back ‘ome.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0229mns
(A Perforated Ulster)
This is for Colin H farther up in the thread – Michael Marra- Chain Up The Swings.
Excellent song, Big Stevie. Marra never lets us down
Excellent comments, Colin. I know nothing about the NI situation so they really helped me get a better grasp of it all.
Clearly it is very complicated indeed and there are many sides to the story.
Headbangers and windowlickers, to quote an esteemed member of this parish on The Book Of Faces.
Oh, and Gove is back. (bangs head on desk repeatedly).
I like what I saw it called today, a tweet originally, I understand, but it fits like a glove:
May/DUP politics.
I am no lover of the DUP but they’re a democratically elected party and if May thinks she can get their support without too much compromise on her part then so be it. The more significant issue for me is the question of the impact on NI politics. Sinn Fein can justifiably argue that the government can no longer act as honest broker to get Stormont working again – so May will also have to keep them sweet.
But to be honest it’s all irrelevant. The chances of May being able to sustain effective government with a majority of two when so many of her own backbenchers will be strongly tempted to rebel are less than zero. This isn’t going to last long.
It’ll be interesting to see what goes first: May or the Conservative Party’s shotgun marriage with the DUP. Certainly, I can’t see either lasting long.
I do agree, though, with the point Declan makes about the border issue re: Brexit – the DUP are (in a way, strangely, given their traditional antipathy to the Rep of Ireland) in favour of a ‘soft border’ in terms of trade, no/minimal customs posts, people living in one jurisdiction and working in the other. Even they cannot get away from the fact that Ireland is geographically one island and no matter how many union jacks they want to stick on flagpoles in their gardens the ecomonies of the two jurisdictional parts of the island are inextricably linked.
So, ironically, their stance on trying to retain the current soft border (driving from Dublin to Belfast all you notice are different road signs to let you know you’ve crossed from one place to the other – you don’t need to stop, the language people speak is the same…) is a policy likelier to be of greater immediate benefit to both parts of Ireland than to the UK as a whole.
Yes, the NI/Eire border will be the only land border between the UK and Europe – but I doubt if anyone in the Great Britain part of the UK (Scotland. England, Wales) cares/cared much about that. If there was a hard border it would have a massive effect on the NI economy and on people’s lives – imagine a hard border, customs post, import taxes, etc between Wales and England. Like it or not, for everyone else in the UK NI – it didn’t choose to be, it’s an accident of history – is a part of it and as long as that’s the case the UK govt owes a duty of care and avoiding a hard border, however they do it, is a big part of that.
Maybe they should a build a wall – and send Angela Merkel the bill.
I’m joking, of course.
I would have thought that the DUP would vote with the Tories on the bulk of issues irrespective of any formal agreement. In any event, whilst I don’t view the prospect of a minority Conservative government with any relish, I am puzzled as to what the people complaining ( on social media generally, not necessarily here) think should happen instead. A Labour minority government that wouldn’t win a single vote even with the support of all the other parties save the Tories and DUP ?
I agree, Ern, that it’s a pragmatic solution for the Conservatives. Indeed, I don’t think there was any other option – no other party/block of MPs would have agreed to this confidence and supply arrangement. I don’t criticise either party for signing up to it – it is in the self-interest of both. I just feel it’s doomed to failure in the medium term and, more importantly in a way, I think it could significantly jeopardise the future of functioning devolved government in NI – given that the UK govt can no longer claim (whatever perceptions/actualities may be) to be an impartial broker.
So she’s gambling with the peace process. Great work.
Remember when she was ushered in last summer as the “adult” “safe pair of hands” etc.
“Politics isn’t a game” she said, referring to Dave’n’George. Cameron must be laughing his fat face off – in comparison with his successor he now looks like Lord Palmerston.
So, as per my earlier question, what is the alternative ?
I dunno… a balloon with a face drawn on it? If we’re going to get laughed out of Brussels there’s no point in pushing the boat out.
Very true, Ernie. Hats off to Corbyn for an extraordinary result, but….
SVT were interviewing a senior Social Democrat here about the election result and asked whether his party would be taking a leaf out of Jezza’s book. He pointed out that, despite a magnificent campaign, Labour did not win the election.
There seem to be a lot of losers in this election and very few “winners”.
The loathsome hypocrisy of such a deal is staggering. Even John Major didn’t stoop to this, and as for, cavorting with terrorists/sympathisers as Corbyn was accused of! This is the equivalent of a political protection racket with the DUP, who will be calling the shots and can withdraw support at anytime, and possible damage to devolution and the potential fall out re the peace agreement is monumentally stupid and self serving. Confidence and Supply of Chaos. She and her party are beyond contempt and not fit for purpose. Corbyn is the next Prime Minister in waiting, and as a morerecent convert, happily so, I say the sooner the better.
….or is this the UDA? I thought it was the UK…
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2017/dup-chief-arlene-foster-met-uda-boss-days-after-loyalist-murder-in-bangor-35776873.html
Exactly. Loathsome. Also, it’s all very well for Major, and Blair etc to sit down with the Martin McGuinesses of the IRA/Sinn Fein etc, that’s fine, but when Corbyn negotiated with the same ilk, he’s a dangerous nutjob hanging out with terrorist mates. Fucking sickening.
As much as I do think it’s entirely wrong, this DUP deal, Corbyn wasn’t “negotiating” at the time because he wasn’t empowered to, by anyone. You can’t negotiate with anyone if you’ve nothing to give, nor any power to make a deal. He was a nobody fringe backbencher at the time. And you’re not “negotiating” if you’re only talking to one side. I’ve never seen any suggestion that Corbyn and McDonnell were in serious contact with any Unionists (though I’ll obviously apologise and retract if it’s shown that they were) or attempting to talk both sides to a negotiating table. Both of them were on record as saying – repeatedly and vociferously – that they wanted a united Ireland. McDonnell was perfectly happy to support violence to that end, in fact. I know this because he’s apologised for it on the telly.
I’m delighted by Labour’s showing in the election, and I’ve happily eaten humble pie about everything I’ve said about JC’s electability. I was dead wrong about that. But that doesn’t mean the past didn’t happen, and Corbyn’s uncritical supportive history with violent Irish republicanism (and violent Islamism, for that matter: Hamas/Hezbollah) isn’t comparable to the Major/Blair governments negotiations for peace. It makes it really tricky for Labour to oppose this awful current deal, too, which is a shame.
All that having been said, nobody gets to criticise Corbyn for his links to the more troubling ends of the republican movement, if they’re prepared to make excuses for Theresa May cosying up to the DUP. Me, I think they’re both as bad as each other on this issue.
@salwarpe discussed this on 26th May on another thread:
“There is no record of meeting with loyalist or unionist groups
The article below would suggest that is not the case:
https://skwawkbox.org/2017/05/25/world-exclusive-corbyn-mowlams-envoy-to-ira-and-loyalists/
his unofficial role as middle east peacemaker
This article answers some of the accusations about associating with anti-semites and holocaust deniers.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-answers-critics-ludicrous-and-wrong-anti-semitism-questions-10460206.html
I may be missing it there but I don’t see any hard evidence that he was sent by Mowlam or that he was an unofficial government envoy. And – the provenance of that Sqwawkbox piece gives me pause. It’s basically a low-rent Canary, from what I can tell, and much of the assertions made in it are unsubstantiated. It’s using a mixture of documented fact (which doesn’t support the Corbyn line explicitly, but mentions other Labour left figures) and from there asserts that various meetings took place involving Corbyn which are not documented.
The Independent article also doesn’t substantiate JC’s denials.
Hmm.
The other thing to consider is that Corbyn has never countered accusations of IRA sympathy by claiming he met with Loyalists too. At least not to my knowledge.
It has been interesting watching Corbyn and MacDonald develop following Corbyn’s election as leader. They both come across as much more sensible and measured, far away from the loonie picture painted of them by the Murdoch press, even if that picture is based on events from twenty years ago. The manifesto was a master stroke, ” We’ll be vilified by the press for spending £20 billion. Let’s ignore them and spend £50 billion, then confound them by fully costing it.”
Thanks to @Tiggerlion for quoting me (I think). I’ll try to respond to @DisappointmentBob‘s words. I should say from the off that I’m no expert in Northern Irish or Middle East matters (even though I studied the conflicts somewhat 20 years ago).
From what I have read, Corbyn may well not have been an unofficial envoy. The FT said Mo Mowlam was very critical of him for hosting a launch event for Gerry Adams’ autobiography. The Sqwawkbox article seems to base its positive udentification of Corbyn’s role on the words of Valerie Veness, who worked for Corbyn – knowledgeable of his activities, but obviously not unbiased as a source.
I apprciate that the Independent article doesn’t substantiate Corbyn’s justification for his actions in connection with Israel/Palestine, but it does at least air them, so readers can judge for themselves whether he was peace campaigner or useful idior or both.
Genuinely unbiased voices are hard to come by – take your pick from Sqwawkbox (I know)/Another Angry Voice on one side or Spectator/Labour Uncut on the other. There doesn’t seem to be ANY substantiation – only voices raised on one side or the other. In such febrile conflicts, that isn’t surprising, but when there’s no evidence either way, I’d prefer an interpretation that seeks to lower, rather than raise the political temperature.
Indeed, I was just trying to present an alternative view to the accepted one – that he is/was an anti-Semitic terrorist sympathiser, Interestingly enough, Spiked, who I wouldn’t have put down as being in the Corbyn camp, wanted people to get off his case (http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/corbyn-and-the-ira-an-infantile-scandal/19844)
The point for me is that whilst Mr Corbyn has spoken frequently about the need for dialogue in order to resolve conflict, his past behaviour suggests that he only appears to talk to one side, whether that be the Republicans in Ireland or Hamas in the Middle East.
Well that’s a tad pedantic, but I get your point and agree, as I’m sure you get my wider one. I for one think that Corbyn is older and wiser now, a far more mature politician in his outlook. It’s this Corbyn that I can get behind and I’m not suggesting he walks on water like some, but for a jaded political atheist like me, that’s not bad! 😉
Sorry, wasn’t trying to be pedantic – and I broadly agree with you. I think he is more mature at this point, but I would like to see him distance himself a bit more explicitly from those causes if he really feels that he took the wrong approach. It’s still far too easy a stick for the Right to beat him with.
No problem and I didn’t mean to sound accidentally chippy, sorry. Yes. I honestly think he’s getting the right approach now and as for what I regard as a sound manifesto, and costed, unlike the robotic piss and wind of the Tories, and one that many people seem to agree with, including previously non labour voters and Corbyn sceptics alike, I think this will more than deflect that particular stick the right like to use, and considering their latest antics, I think it’s more of a soggy twig.
Labour’s manifesto might have been ‘costed’, but those coatings were no more robust than those of UKIP a couple of years back that assumed a vast haul from leaving the EU. Labour assumed a £50bn take from increasing Corporation Tax and Income Tax on high earners. We might wish it were otherwise, but as the French found out a few years back, it tends not to work out like that.
At least they made a bit of an effort. The Tories couldn’t even be bothered.
It was a good effort, and the kind of policies this country needs. All the Tories did was send out a risible, lazy, arrogant half boiled finger wagging half threat half bleat from the Headmistress, and now you have that arse head Johnson tally ho-ing the troops (yeah…sure) as Zelda gets ready to hang out with that other political vacuum, the walking talking hologram that is Macron, otherwise known as Sooty to Hollande’s Mathew Corbett. No wonder the tide is turning.
Jeremy Corbyn apologising for past naivety in his association with undesirable groups such as the IRA and Hamas will just give the right-wing press an opportunity to rake it all over again and produce more headlines saying “See. We told you he was evil personified. Why has it taken him so long to apologise?” .
Just ignoring the issue will have them persisting with “why won’t this evil man admit he was hobnobbing with terrorists”.
He can’t win against that level of organised antipathy. They will vilify him no matter what he does. Thankfully, it seems nobody much seems to care what they say any more.
Yes, and the positive side of the rise of social media is that it means that MSM no longer controls the narrative, and the current farce with the DUP is making that particular angle largely redundant.
Andrew Neil gets quote of the week from me regarding May’s election achievement – ‘stupidity bordering on genius’. Yep!
Thank you all for your informed views, in particular Messrs Harper, Rocker, Declan and Bombadil (Mr B, your writing ‘sounds’ familiar – good to hear from you again Mr C).
As a dour, miserable Scot whose glass is naturally always below half full, I take a very dim view of this arrangement. It fills me with little confidence. Whilst I appreciate it is a short-term political construct, it belies the breathtaking arrogance (desperation?) of the Conservative Party. I have tried to rationalise this arrangement and have failed.
Look at it this way – if last Thursday evening there was an option on the ballot papers ‘Con/DUP’, would you have ticked that box? Would the people of Northern Ireland have given their consent? Would the voting population of mainland UK have endorsed such a relationship?
Aside from the Labour Party’s ‘big push’ for power in the next few days, is anyone for a ‘Party of Unity’ until this whole clusterfuck is distilled?
Yeah, I’ll bring a keg and some Twiglets. There’ll be a hell of a fight over the stereo, mind.
Stereo? I don’t think the DUP would countenance that. It’s still mono in their world.
Lovely!
There was a rumour that Rev Willie McCrea* had once issued a record in stereo, which would have caused the party a constitutional crisis, but it turned out to be malicious gossip.
* Rev ‘Wild’ Willie McCrea, house band of the DUP, always booked for the Christmas discos.
Here’s something from one of more progressive LPs (yes, really):
I have never seem a pop video quite like that. It does not seem to belong to this millennium.
To which millennium does it belong? Remember, you only have three others to choose from.
No, no – it’s way before those…
The first one, whenever that was!
Aarghh! The vanity of the old goat.
Bet he does bible thumping in his free time.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck that is shite beyond recompense. Even Vic and Bob couldn’t better that.
One word: Tittybiscuits.
The amount of moral high ground available to some of the other parties here is pretty small. Gordon Brown tried to cut a deal with the DUP in 2010: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7683450/General-Election-2010-DUP-now-being-courted-by-Labour.html
And Alex Salmond said the SNP “could work” with them in 2015: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-30424810/alex-salmond-snp-could-work-with-sinn-fein-or-dup
Oh great, an environment secretary who doesn’t believe in experts.
It’s just occurred to me that this is an attempt to keep the Mail onside (through Sarah Vain).
Pathetic.
Here she is, in No 10 Denial Street. What does it take to get that terrible cringeing Pecksniffian smile off her face? A spot of humility might be in order, you would think.
Dear Mr Gove,
Please have a job.
Please ask Mrs Gove to say nice things about me in her threadbare columns and I’ll hopefully be here until after I’ve got my Wimbledon invite.
Love and Kisses ,
Tessa
I’m trying to make up my mind about which is the greatest car crash; Richard Hammond’s latest pile-up, or Gove being back from the naughty corner.
On reflection, Hammond’s just trashed a big boy’s toy and his own knee, whereas Gove has been given the keys to the environmental destruction box.
No contest. The Tories have done it again. It’s unlikely that there has ever been a succession of rank arrogance and stupidity quite like the sequence of Cameron followed by May.
May’s Coalition of Chaos. Worst fairground attraction ever.
There is very useful guide here https://theulsterfry.com/world-news/10-things-you-never-knew-about-northern-ireland-a-guide-for-english-folk/
So…what if a small number of disappointed Conservatives, desperate to ditch May, vote against the Queen’s Speech?
My sniggering, which has been continuous but gradually tailing off since Friday, will re-intensify.
It’s looking very late-70s, as many folk have said. The government won’t be able to do what they want to do and yet, conversely, will get the blame for everything that goes wrong. It doesn’t help that TM has effectively been going around and saying “Crisis? What crisis?”
Sunny Jim: A Warning From History.