I treated myself to some 2nd generation AirPod Pro’s in the Black Friday sales. After setting them up with personalised spatial audio I played the Beatles’ Red album from Apple Music (Dolby Atmos). Remarkable. The sensation was superior to playing via a decent pair of AKG headphones connected to my pretty decent hifi setup. Like having The Beatles in your head. I’m not at all sure about the audio path involved. The Apple music stream is lossless, Dolby Atmos but I would have thought that the connection with my AirPods is Bluetooth which, as far as I’m aware, is not compatible with lossless. In any case the experience is fabulous.
Listening to the ‘Red’ album with AirPod Pro’s
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All that matters is that you enjoy the music. The tech bit is interesting but of secondary importance to that.
All Bluetooth is lossy.
Quite.
All streamed Atmos is lossy, too.
Airplay is NOT lossy *trying to sound like he knows what he is on about*
Airplay 2 can be but it’s complicated. It seems to be highly dependent upon how it’s used. That’s why I decided against Apple Music. I can live without the hassle. Tidal is way more straightforward despite Tidal having a few issues with Tidal Connect at the moment but if you simply want the best quality hi-res lossless at the present moment with the minimum of hassle then Qobuz is the best imho.
You don’t need to use it with Apple Music. I use Qobuz and stream it via airplay. How successful it is, is beyond me.
I use Tidal and Qobuz and stream them bit perfect from a streamer. John Darko explains how Airplay works or mostly doesn’t work in the video above.
None of this matters though. All that does is how satisfying the end result is and that’s entirely personal.
A pedant writes: as Mr Squeezer says, Airplay can be lossless but isn’t aways.
Two useful quotes, this from Roon Labs:
“AirPlay2 can exist in two forms: lossless 16/44.1 ALAC or lossy AAC. It’s up to the app to decide. On system platforms, in-app AirPlay and OS-level AirPlay may be different.”
And the other from Dolby Professional, wrt streaming Atmos:
“For Broadcast and OTT delivery
Dolby Digital Plus with Dolby Atmos encoders support data rates of 384*, 448, 576, 640, 768 and 1,024 kbps.
* At 384 kbps, the number of channels / objects is limited to 11.1.
For Blu-ray Disc
Dolby Digital Plus with Dolby Atmos encoders support data rates of 1,152, 1,280, 1,408, 1,512, 1,536 and 1,664 kbps”
A vague, perhaps slightly more understandable, metaphor:
Streaming Atmos is the mp3 to Blu-ray’s Flac.
I’m going to admit something. I have no idea what lossless means. In fact I don’t understand about 99% of these posts. Still enjoy them though and love the subject knowledge.
Even my ears can tell the difference between flac and ordinary MP3. One of those systems is, I do hope, lossless ie music more or less like it was recorded, more or less (ish)
I didn’t have my glasses on: I thought you’d typed
“more or less fish” – thus shining a unique sidelight on the flac vs mp3 debate.
As far as you need to know, Fred;
“lossless” = CD quality,
“lossy” = mp3
I could explain further, but it would be very dull.
Which has the least fish?
Flac is King of the Herring, mp3 is a load of old Pollocks.
Why isn’t it “lossful”? So much more poetic.
And “lossfewer” for the Waitrose set.
I make that 4 threads on these reissues. I love The Beatles but this is getting like the Hoffman forums!
And only one on Metal Machine Music! Proper mental this place.
Ah but there was only one Lou Reed and there were four Beatles.
250,000 people when the Velvet Underground played Glastonbury in 1993:
There’s only one Lou Reed.
One Lou Reeeee-eeeed.
There’s only one Lou Reed.
ONE. LOU. REED!
Memory is a little vague but I’m sure we left the Velvet Undeground to see Spiritualized as we were pretty underwhelmed and probably also because Lou Reed was about a mile from where we where!
Hoffman thread on Red and Blue albums – 544 pages and counting
Can there ever be a Beatles story this “big” again? I can’t imagine the inevitable Rubber Soul box being this big a deal.
Boyyyys, we’re at the ennnnd of an age…..
Well, there’s always this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-67480239
How many Bongo mentions? That’s what sorts out the wheat from the chaff.
He’s the number one superguy! (yes I know that’s Norman Smith, let me have my fun)
I just got a pair of the pods. The noise canceling functions have made my brain issues a lot easier to manage.
I have no opinion on The Beatles.
I know someone with ME who wears them to reduce the noise her neighbours make.
Alert alert alert…
Just listened to Love Me Do on Spotify premium with air pod pros.
WOW! sounds good.
As per the other thread, when you get to Hard Day’s Night with your APP2s you discover that somebody’s playing mad bongos like a loon throughout all the verses. These were not revealed by a Dansette.
Is it Ringo, the mild-mannered janitor?…… Could be!
Norman Smith
“I only ever played on one Beatles song, and that was ‘A Hard Day’s Night’. I played the bongos. Ringo couldn’t do it. I went down to the studio and showed him what to do, but he just couldn’t get that continual rhythm. So I said, ‘Okay, forget it, I’ll do it.’ We overdubbed it, and I left my Tape Op [Geoff Emerick that session] behind upstairs to operate the equipment.
Norman Smith
Recording The Beatles”
Ha, not Bongo then? Thanks!
Turns out Ringo couldn’t play “quicker than the human eye”
Does Ringo have a cat named Spot?
HYAH!
I have recently donated my “proper” hifi system to a deserving young hipster because it was rarely, if ever, I made it all the way to the west wing which housed my Listening Room. I am now one of those oft-despised people who listen mostly to, admittedly reasonably high end, smartspeakers. Does the job for me.
I’ve never, except when the kids were very small, been a real fan of headphones, I generally just don’t like that cut off from the world feeling. What has surprised me however, is connecting my Sennheiser’s through a Fiio DAC to my Chromebook and listening to Amazon Music Hi Res. Gosh and a golly, even my tired old ears are delighted. It’s all “I’ve never heard that before!”
A question for The Expert , Mr Fenton: back in the day (thirty, even forty, years ago) I spent decent dosh (well, well into four figures) on hifi separates and listened to LPs when sat in my sweet spot. I’m honestly not sure if that was any better sonically than today’s £200 headphones, £60 dac and a £350 Chromebook. Am I Wrong?
Also, would a chromebook not re-sample a hi-res input along the lines of a Mac OS machine, as described in the Darko video?
It depends on the App. There is a way to get unmolested 24-bit digital audio out of a Mac. I can’t remember offhand what the app is called.
As I’ve already said elsewhere this morning, high-performance electronics is (relatively) easier than high-performance vinyl (electro-mechanical) playback.
The performance of Analogue to Digital Converters (always the weak link in early CD) has improved a lot in the last 40 years, and the performance of consumer DACs has incrementally improved – 24 bit at both ends is easy nowadays.
Amplifiers and speakers haven’t changed much; evolution not revolution.
Most vinyl is cut from 24-bit files so, by listening to them, you’re cutting out a step or two.
Plus: headphones always sound better than speakers due to absence of room acoustics.
If anyone has a half-decent system with speakers and wants to upgrade, buy some acoustic panels and put them on the walls. You’ll be amazed how much better your existing gear will sound.
»…If anyone has a half-decent system with speakers and wants to upgrade, buy some acoustic panels and put them on the walls. You’ll be amazed how much better your existing gear will sound.«
Good advice. When we had set up our »music room« (sort of…) the guy who had built the speakers visited and told us something along the lines of »that cabinet has to go, put the flowers here, the LP racks there, and maybe some drapes here…« Made a big difference, even if it’s German Beatle albums you’re listening to…
I have an office/den where I work from and where my main stereo is. I’ve found I seem to have naturally stumbled upon creating a naturally acoustically nice atmosphere just because of stuff like pictures, records, books, CDs, etc lining the walls (“clutter” is how Mrs Cowslip would put it). There’s a lovely muffled warmth when you walk into the room and all my records sound great in here. I’m loathe to mess with the layout for that reason.
(Probably only me that notices it. But these things are important! When I try to listen to music down in the kitchen it’s like an echo chamber)
The best room acoustic upgrade most people can make is free – listen with the curtains* closed.
(*) not now, Moosey boy
The way I dance I have no choice
#neighbourhoodwatch
I have a picture in my head now – I rather wish that I didn’t…
Curtains ruin the fun, I’ve found.
It’s bloody cold out here and all.
I have another picture in my head now – once again, I rather wish that I didn’t…
I have some pictures, if you want them…
What was the donated system and did you ever play a record/cd on it with your smart speakers in the same room and do an a/b conparison ?
Dual Turntable (CS…?)
Naim pre-amp (bought from a friend)
Nad 3020 (didn’t we all have one?)
Mission Speakers – (7….?)
Arcam CD player
Didn’t do a comparison test with smartspeaker as such. I played vinyl maybe three or four times a year and always thought compared to CD “this has depth and warmth”. I don’t think I was fooling myself but who knows…?
The Donated System – three more shattered cones from them later
Young hipster dude arrived in his Tesla complete with trailer onto which he loaded aforementioned system. “Sure I can’t give you anything?” he said.
Through gritted teeth, having Wrongly imagined this young man was a struggling student, I replied “A donation to charity, perhaps?”
He smiled, shook my hand and made his way back to his little hideaway in Provence.
That ‘s some nice kit to be giving away Lodes.
I’m that kind of guy. It has sat there for at least eight years hardly ever touched. When a friend said “My son really likes vinyl and has been looking for a music system”, I offered it up. Drink may have been taken.
Tesla eh? Never mind, it will all have been consumed in a fireball by now. Your gear had a Viking funeral.
I sat inside the Tesla for a few minutes. Starship Enterprise complete with all the crew ! Apparently you accelerate and brake with the same pedal. Blimey!
This is the Red Album that I like listening to.
Huzzah!
Not Taylor Swift?
Or the Communards?
…or Black Uhuru? (now yer talkin’….)
Oh yes – that’s what I was thinking.
“The youth of Eglinton
Won’t put down their Remington…”
Great tune. Victor Kiam was a fan, too…
1. Yes – you can certainly do someone a mischief with an electric shaver.
2. The cover of the Black Uhuru album listed the title as “Youth of Eglington”, with a ‘g’ between the first ‘n’ and the ‘t’. But the district of Toronto with a large Jamaican community to which the band were referring is ‘Eglinton’, with no ‘g’ between the ‘n’ and the ‘t’.
Actually it is Eglinton Ave which is a very long street, am guessing at least 30km, running East to West North of downtown. The Jamaican part is in an area of Eglinton West
As someone who believes we should bring back hanging, but only for people who say orang utang, this disgusts me..
Hangin’s too good for them, as Priti Patel would say.
Probably demonstrate it too, given the opportunity.
There’s an Ali Farka Touré album called “Red”, too!
https://www.discogs.com/release/18031906-Ali-Farka-Tour%C3%A9-Red
I’m going to admit something. I have no idea what lossless means. In fact I don’t understand about 99% of these posts. Still enjoy them though and love the subject knowledge.
Edith. I’ve no idea why this posted here. Should have been way back up there⬆️
Though It does give me the opportunity to mention that Sammy Hagar loves the colour Red too.
It IS way back up there, FS – seems to have duplicated, for reasons not clear…
Something fishy going on clearly..
Hake news possibly
Someone is obviously coming the raw prawn
Never mind the molluscs!
It’s all about the bass
Well, you win the whitefish carnation, Mr Digit..
It’s the remastered version.