Anyone seen the new Indiana Jones film yet?
If anyone enjoyed it then I’m honestly happy for them, but I just couldn’t. It’s not “bad” per se, just flat and uninteresting, and showing very little of the razor sharp craftsmanship and ingenuity that made the original 80s trilogy so enjoyable.
But why do I care? I really shouldn’t, should I? Indiana Jones was a big part of my childhood, and I unashamedly loved the films much as I would love a rollercoaster ride or a set of Star Wars figures. Then as I got older and my taste in films became more sophisticated (the jury is out on that one), I started to really appreciate them on rewatching, and seeing the skill and care that went into them. I admire them massively as just fantastically creative things, with a whole team of cutting edge people working at the very edge of their technique. As popcorn entertainment goes, they are unbeatable.
Did I ever expect a revival thirty years later would be any good? Not really. So why does it bother me so much? Is it the inevitable, depressing link to my own mortality, the sense that I’ll never experience that same thrill that shook me to the core when I saw Temple of Doom as an 11 year old boy? Is there a wider malaise at play here, as I’m generally unhappy the entertainment world is being blanded out into franchises and revivals?
I have no answers. I’m just feeling down that I let myself get suckered into pinning my hopes on a film I always knew was going to be a bit rubbish, and wondering why I care so much. It would be nice to know I’m not alone. Then again, I know the sensible answer to this is “it’s just a film, it doesn’t really matter”.
I’m also interested to hear if anyone genuinely enjoyed this and thought it was as good as the old ones.
I enjoyed it but not as much as I was hoping to. There were perhaps too many self-conscious call-backs to previous iconic moments (although it’s an indelible thrill to see the hat and whip appear…). The end sequence was just batshit crazy even for this imagined universe, and appropriately enough there has been a fevered online debate on the associated potholes and fissures in cinematic logic.
I can live with most of these flaws, but the main drawback for me – and it’s a huge one which seriously derailed my forgiving disposition – is the presence of Phoebe Waller-Bridge. I couldn’t stand her ultra-smug, self-satisfied perma-smirk overriding every scene she was in. It’s probably irrational, and I’m aware that she’s universally adored and lauded, but she really, really, REALLY irritates me. So obviously her major role seriously impacted on my overall assessment of the film.
Phoebe Waller-Bridge is one of the main reasons I won’t see it. Good luck to her, and I wish her no ill will, but yes: she’s wildly irritating.
Saw it Thursday a friend was staying and he’d not visited our ‘local’ cinema* for sometime. IJATDOD was on I didn’t feel short changed however it was only a fiver in.
I thought the link back to the snakes in the first film was well done, maybe others less so.
I did expect PWB to do that look over her shoulder at some point which is all I really know her for as I’ve not seen Fleabag.
As BT has said above the batshit end sequence needed some explanation via either a Venn diagram or a graph.
In the end it’s just a film, I didn’t feel they used the music enough, lots of the cast were underused. We stayed to watch the credits which went on and on.** I think there were scenes that had been cut as one part of the credits mentioned a Medusa sequence and unless I blinked I didn’t see. There was a scene shown in a trailer that didn’t make the final cut.
* One of the oldest cinemas in the country and about 10 miles away.
** According to the manager the credits lasted 11 minutes as she had timed them.
I enjoyed the interval ice-cream.
My boss posted a picture of the film this morning and asked – guess what film?
He wasn’t best pleased when I suggested On Golden Pond, Best Exotic Marigold Hotel, or The Living Dead.
Maybe it didn’t thrill because you’re used to the tropes in the film? I wonder what film could amaze a bunch of middle aged AWers?
Started rewatching the series with the eldest in order to prepare for the new one. Raiders perfect in every way. Temple of Doom a bit annoying but lots of good stuff. Last Crusade basically brilliant if taken as a straight comedy.
Number 4 we haven’t managed yet but I remember as utter crap. My expectations for the new one are ‘better than number 4’ basically. Thread seems to confirm that.
I will have watched the first two back in the past but they clearly left no impression on me.
Can’t remember them and therefore I am not going to watch this.
Off topic, but your comment in the OP about not expecting much reminds me of much of the commentary about older acts – and specifically Blondie – at Glastonbury. I remember Debbie and Co performing in 1999 and being concerned that they’d be past it then!
I quite enjoyed their set, but then I’d been prepared for what I was going to get having watched their Coachella performances a couple of months back on tv.
I think it’s just going to happen at festivals now that there will be acts who are there just to be there, rather like veteran actors being paraded at the Oscars.
And that probably is because the audience has a problem with accepting how they themselves are aging.
Hopefully there won’t be too many sights as sorry as Candi Staton basically begging the crowd to drown out her own voice.
I’ve never watched a whole Indiana Jones film, but I do recall people commenting, in a similar vein to Blondie, that he was too old to play the part with the same vigour when they made the fourth one many years ago.
Essentially, if any of these “one more trip to the well” turns out out positively we should consider it a bonus.
I remember positively deciding not to go and see Blondie when Maria came out (in 1999!) because I so loved them as a kid that I didn’t want to spoil the memories by watching a load of old people on stage. Debbie Harry would have been my age then, and she’s now my mum’s age.
And I still buy New Order CDs, despite only liking about half a dozen tunes since 1993, in the hope that they’ll make one more decent album. Spoiler alert: they won’t.
As a Team Hooky kinda guy, I was both annoyed and pleasantly surprised to acknowledge how good Music: Complete was/is.
After the horror of Bad Lieutenant, so was I. I don’t play it, though.
I welcome this kind of off-topic comment! Mainly because I wasn’t really intending on getting bogged down on this film in particular, but I was trying to open up the conversation about other “childish things” you can’t help but try to retain faith in as you get older.
The comparison with following bands who are past their best had occurred to me. But I think I’m quite good at picking heritage acts who I know will still be able to put on a good show, and in fact might have actually built a sense of gravitas and importance just from being around for so long. Robert Plant and Paul Simon both probably fall into this category for me. I’d be less inclined to see The Rolling Stones, The Who or U2 in their old age, as I think their best music by young people for young people.
I went to see IJATDOD at the weekend and wasn’t hugely impressed. Too many overlong chase sequences and parts of the plot were a bit predictable (no spoilers) – but maybe that’s just my opinion.
I plan to see the new one even though Spielberg isn’t involved. They are enjoyable, but I don’t think any of them are cinematic masterpieces. Everyone seems to hate the 4th one, but I thought it was not necessarily that bad, in fact probably better than the 2nd one.
Top 3 Spielberg for me:
1 Schindler’s List
2 E.T.
3 Jaws
I thought the first Raiders was very good indeed at the time and the plot/humour still stands up quite well. Number two was a stinker, four was ok.
Rated in order so far.
1, 3, 4, 2.
Snap!
The escape from the aeroplane in the first 20 minutes of the second movie impressed me no end. I thought it was superbly done. Jumping out inside an inflating life raft to glide down onto a snowy mountain side.
It put me in mind of an episode of The Pink Panther show I saw when i must have been 8 or so. Pink P finds himself in a house that, for reasons now forgotten, is plummeting to earth after being pushed from a cliff. Death is certain. Except at the very moment of impact he opens the front door and simply steps out unharmed as the house, rightly, disintergrates behind him.
I was convinced this could work in real life and have only recently seen sense and accepted that it couldn’t.
Obviously, these lists are entirely subjective, but it should be noted that you are more animal than man. Temple of Doom at the bottom! Below Crystal Skull! Good lord.
Ian McNabb gave it 8 out of 10 if anyone’s interested.
I liked Con Air, myself.
What?
A truly great film
Agreed. And brilliant closing song.
I loved the first two movies – and ‘Temple Of Doom’ provided some of my most enjoyable moments ever in a cinema.
I saw it in its 1st week of release at the Odeon Leicester Square with a rapt audience who really enhanced the whole show – most of the audience stood & applauded, whistled & stamped their feet at the moment Indy doubles back & audaciously retrieves his hat from the trap that moments before was going to crush him & the heroine!
The Last Crusade creaked a bit, but had good turns from Connery & Ford, but I thought Crystal Skull was actually pretty dull.
Re: the new one, I read Kermode’s deft attempt to be polite about being underwhelmed, but I’ve heard others refer to it as ‘Indiana Jones & the Destruction Of The Legacy’ – not sure if I’ll go & see it , but I’m sure when I do catch up with it eventually it’ll have enough moments to be enjoyable.
We may have been at the same screening at the Empire Theatre! I remember I couldn’t believe how much the tickets cost, 3.75 to see a film! (Inflation counter makes that 11.61 today)
I’ll go and see it. The Crystal Skull was a bit pants, but Harrison Ford’s gruff charisma always drags these things through.
The other films were shown last week I think on one of the channels (think C4 have the rights now) so probably Film 4. I hadn’t seen the heart removal scene from Temple of Doom since we had it out on video in the 80s – still properly shocking. While that film has its slightly dodgy moments now, it’s still great fun, and there was a great documentary on one bank holiday probably showing how they filmed the mine cart chase at the end which still looks amazing now nearly 40 years on,
I’m perfectly happy to pretend that The Last Crusade was the final film – there’s nothing to be gained from living in the real world!
This is what I keep telling myself as well! I had to rewatch it (and Temple of Doom) at the weekend just to cleanse myself of The Dial of Destiny, and what a marvel of a film it is.
Complete hokum, but crafted with love, care and joy. It’s one of the most deliriously perfect examples of escapist adventure storytelling ever created.
There are lots of people (angry youtubers) criticising Dial of Destiny for plotholes and unbelievability, but it’s easy to forget these things don’t actually matter. It’s not the raw material, it’s what you do with it. A good director like Spielberg in his prime (with a crack team of experts around him) will win you over and make you believe whatever he wants. Last Crusade has a stupid Venice boat chase, a comedy cameo by Hitler and a 900 year old knight, but it all WORKS and you are in it for the ride, because it’s all done so well.
Sorry, but can’t help but heap more praise on Last Crusade while it occurs to me:
– The tank chase sequence is just pure joy. It all flows so seamlessly, and crams an immense amount of comedy, danger and suspense into about 10 minutes of screen time. I think it took until the Bourne and Mission Impossible films for anything approaching this level of action cinema again.
– And I just LOVE the scene on the beach when the Nazi fighter plane is approaching and Sean Connery uses his umbrella to rouse the seagulls. It’s a beautiful, comedic moment, and an ingenious twist you just don’t expect. The original Indy trilogy is full of moments like this: suspense with the hero applying an ingenious twist to resolve the situation.
Hmmm. Enjoyed the roller coaster ride first time around (Doom) but it is really a weak film. Kate Capshaw (Mrs Spielberg) is just so annoying
Haven’t seen the new film and won’t do so until it’s out on Blu Ray (almost wrote on home video there).
However, widening the scope of the OP, I’m a Star Wars fan and have been since seeing the original film in its original and very much delayed release in the Irish provinces in 1978. So I hear you with Indiana Jones and nod along in understanding when I look at the Star Wars prequels, the bootleg DVD I have of the Holiday Special, the Ewok movies and The Rise of Skywalker. For the record, I loved The Last Jedi as it struck just the right note that I wanted in seeing Luke Skywalker take his leave from the movies and did so in a stately and satisfying manner. But I still get a palpable thrill from hearing the blast that accompanies the Star Wars opening crawl, the thrum of a lightsaber and the particular sound that accompanies the ships in Star Wars. I still get hugely excited at watching Star Wars (it’ll always be Star Wars to me) and The Empire Strikes Back. Less so the Revenge of the Sith but they can’t all be classics.
On the matter of Indiana Jones, I don’t doubt that you’ll get that same thrill watching any of the first three movies again. I watched Raiders for the first time in years over the last winter and was grinning like a fool throughout. It’s such a huge amount of fun from beginning to end, perfectly written, directed and played.
Leaving childish things behind? Not a bit of it. Raiders, TESB, Two Tribes, Let’s Go Crazy, Tempest in the arcades and a copy of City of Thieves. Not that I can’t appreciate In The Mood For Love or L’Année dernière à Marienbad but sometimes you just have to go along with the Proustian rush that comes with the things we fell in love with in childhood.
City of Thieves? The Fighting Fantasy book? Now you are speaking my language! Citadel of Chaos was my first and favourite however. Those Russ Nicolson illustrations drove me crazy with glee.
If you haven’t completed your collection of Fight Fantasy now…forget about it. Those books have been steadily creeping up in price.
The Warlock of Firetop Mountain, possibly because it was written by both Ian Livingstone and Steve Jackson, and so seems to have more detail and tricks than the others, is my favourite, though the 4 books of the Sorcery! series were a pretty splendid way to end the whole run of books.
Forest of Doom!
I had concerns about going to see Top Gun: Maverick, but I took the Son and Heir.
And boy am I glad I did. Best few hours in a cinema in a very, very long time. Everything a nostalgia movie should be.
And I hope I have the same reaction to this.
I read an article *waves hands in air* a while ago about Lucas, and his movies. I hope don;t do the writer an injustice when I say that they’re B-movies, but with A-movie production values. Lucas grew up watching things like King of the Rocket Men, and the old Flash Gordon tv shows, and they informed a lot of his film making – the escapes from seemingly impossible situations, often using plainly ridiculous ways of accomplishing that.
It’s a crude summary, but reading it made me rethink the IJ movies, and especially Crystal Skull. Using that framework, it’s a movie entirely consistent with Lucas’ filmmaking (except American Graffiti) and a really good film of its ilk.
In the seventies there was a compilation film made up out of the 1943 Batman series. When you watched the original series at Saturday morning pictures (in the sixties for me) you had a whole week before seeing the next instalment which gave time to forget every detail of the cliffhanger at the end.
Of course in the compilation you’d see Batman and Robin escape from the Batmobile before it headed over the cliff which you certainly not seen the week before, as it were.
I distinctly remember King of the Rocketmen on BBC2 at about 0900 during the holidays, usually followed by Champion the Wonder Horse…
Like a streak of lightning flashing cross the sky
[Like the swiftest arrow
Whizzin’ from a bow]
Like a mighty cannonball [he seems to fly]
You’ll hear about him everywhere you go
The time will come when everyone will know the name of Champion the wonder horse
Champion the wonder horse!
[bracketed words are those I forgot and had to look up]
Casey Jones a steamin’ and a rollin’,
Casey Jones you never have to guess
When you hear the tootin’ of the whistle
It’s Casey at the throttle of the Cannonball Express!
Branded!
Scorned as the one who ran.
What can you do when you’re branded
And you know you’re a man?
Duh duh duh duh duh duh duh BATMAAAAAN
Riding that train, high on cocaine…..
(Sorry, wrong version)
Hah!
Of course, the Dead performed not only their own song “Casey Jones” (which you quote), but also the original “Ballad of Casey Jones”. They performed the latter in one of their acoustic sets at the Fillmore East on 15 May 1970. It can be heard of Road Trips: Vol 3, Number 3.
Perfectly illustrated by our heroes being saved from a crushing in the garbage compactor in Star Wars – with cinematography suggesting the walls were mere inches apart – by R2-D2 managing to link to the Death Star computer just in time.
The interesting thing about Lucas is that he really never suggested that he was anything other than someone making movies that were updates on the Saturday morning shorts that he loved in his childhood. Except that he was doing it with, for the time, cutting edge visual and sound effects. And to do so he needed his own companies to achieve his goal.
Reading Easy Riders, Raging Bulls, after the financial failure of THX 1138, Lucas was all about making financially successful movies, often to the despair of his peers…with one exception, Spielberg. He didn’t always succeed, mind you…see almost anything not Star Wars or Indiana Jones related.
Did someone mention Howard the Duck?
Absolutely Howard The Duck
He and Mister Stress both stayed, trapped in a world that they never made.
I will fight any person who doesn’t think American Graffitti is a great movie.
That to one side, you’re right.
I think they are more Spielberg films (or were) than Lucas ones. Lucas only managed to direct about 1 and a half good films in his career.
I really enjoyed Crystal Skull – great supporting cast, with John Hurt doing his best crazy, and a stout sci-fi theme.
I don’t like it, but it feels to me like people’s criticisms of it are focused on the wrong things. I think Shia LeBoef was fine. I think the fridge/atom bomb scene was a nice bit of classic Spielberg suspense-and-release, totally unrealistic but acceptable within the realms of pulp action logic. The idea of aliens is also okay.
So I think it could have worked, but it was just the implementation of it that was poor. I’m not a film-maker so I’m not sure what exactly it was missing, but it just seemed sloppy and slow, with ugly CGI effects and very few memorable one-liners or set-pieces. The best bits by far for me were:
– The very, very start (ignoring the gopher) establishing the 50s setting with the hotrod racing the army truck
– The chase sequence around the college, starting from the punchup in the coffee bar between the Rockers and the Jocks (or whatever they were), and then into the motorbike chase through the library etc.
… and that’s about it for me! Both those bits felt authentically like classic Indy scenes with the mind of Spielberg running at full blast, but it went downhill very fast after that I thought.
I don’t think many people head into a new Indiana Jones movie with an expectation that it will match up to the original trilogy. Crystal Skull more or less saw to that, but you also have to bear in mind that Harrison Ford is in his 80s, and that it’s up against near peak Spielberg. It would take a bloody miracle for it to get within touching distance of Raiders, which remains a masterpiece of its kind.
Having watched the new one, I really struggled (as others above) to get past the performance of Phoebe Waller-Bridge. With a range running all the way from smug to charmless, I have found her distressing on all encounters to date, but here I thought she simply drowned the whole movie – there was no sense at all that she was playing a character, or that she could possibly be from the relevant time period. She simply turned up and was herself all over the damn thing. James Corden-esque, and I mean that as the most damning of indictments. By the end I was wishing for the return of Kate Capshaw.
Beyond the above, I thought the film started and ended strongly. The de-ageing of Ford was genuinely impressive, and even with a face full of CGI he still emanated more charisma than many of today’s leading men. The ending is clearly utterly bananas, but that’s been a feature of the last couple of these movies, so I was good to roll with it. If you’re going to go silly, you might as well go full silly.
In between, there was the occasional bright spot, but I thought it sagged, and the thought returned repeatedly that there was simply no legitimate reason to spend $200m making this movie in this day and age. The IP is simply not of that level of prestige in 2023, Spielberg isn’t attached (although I do like James Mangold – his previous movie, Ford v Ferrari, was a real treat that worked well on repeated viewing), and the box office is a challenging place these days. I am unsurprised to see that it’s struggling to get near the numbers it needed to make.
New Indie movie aside, I can only state that I am deeply suspicious of anyone who professes to have put aside childish things. In my experience, that statement is always the calling card of either a bore or a bounder (and occasionally both). It’s not an either/or with childish/adultish things – you can, and should have both.
You are very kind on Dial of Destiny I think. Personally I find CGI de-aging still nausea inducing. I suppose the technology is slowly getting better, but it still looks unconvincing and just takes me out of the film.
And I think the opening was one of the worst things about the film: just too overblown and proof that less really can be more when it comes to these things. Compare the huge, complicated train chase with the simple, short, nailbiting train chase at the start of Last Crusade. In Last Crusade it felt physical and dangerous, and reminded me of Buster Keaton – and I hate to resort to cliches but in Dial of Destiny it just felt like a computer game.
RE Phoebe Waller Bridge – I can see she is a bit marmite, but I thought it was more the writing of the character rather then her herself which spoiled it. I don’t mind her really. As a thought experiment, I’m trying to imagine her in Last Crusade instead of Alison Doody and actually I think she’d be good in that.
RE putting childish things aside. Yes, I think you’re right and I’ve pondered this more since I made my original post. I think I’ve made my peace now with being able to properly and proportionally appreciate the things I loved in my childhood. One reason is that I realised I HAVE put aside a lot of things which I would have died for at age 10 – things like Thundercats, He-Man, Transformers, Krull, Willow, Buck Rogers, etc etc etc. All that Proustian rush stuff is fine, but it’s just a fleeting feeling, something to smile and reminisce about. The stuff that really lasts is the really good stuff, quality stuff that I can see the art and value in as an adult: Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Back to the Future, Lord of the Rings, Narnia, Watership Down, etc – things I would happily defend on the basis of their art and skill.
I think you worry far too much about whether the things you like can be objectively justified as good art, Arthur. The world wouldn’t end if you wore a Thundercats T-shirt. Temple of Doom is a great popcorn movie, and I have love for that, but it’s not high art, and all the better for it. All the smartest people I’ve ever know have found it in themselves to openly love some right old junk, without excuses or any trace of guilt. Life is simply too short to pretend we’re tasteful.
In terms of the CGI in the new one, I’m afraid that’s inevitable now in a movie of this type. If you want people to shell out for the big screen you need to offer cutting edge spectacle. I wish it wasn’t the case, but it is. Spielberg is the one who set us on this path – Jurassic Park works because it’s the tipping point where CGI and practical effects sit side by side in perfect harmony. But it’s also the death knell for the old way of making blockbusters.
On the de-ageing, I thought it was excellent. The tech has come a very long way since Rogue One. I could have done without the lynching (twas ever thus) but the opening set the tone nicely enough and in many ways it feels more jarring to see Ford onscreen in the rest of the movie than it does the train chase. Can he possibly have imagined in 1981 he’d still be making these movies in 2023?
As for Waller Bridge, the only positive I can find is that it’s very very funny we appear to have sent Britain’s smuggest toff to help the Americans address their diversity issues. No wonder she constantly looks like she’s about to piss herself laughing.
Yes I worry too much about most things to be honest. I’m just a big middle-aged Charlie Brown.
In other ‘childish things’ news, The Flash movie is ACE – so much better than I was expecting.
Well I just saw it on a massive IMAX screen and I loved it. Thought Phoebe Waller-Bridge was excellent and perfect for the part. Harrison Ford was brilliant and as charismatic as ever and I confess I got a bit emotional at the end. All complete hokum but extremely entertaining and it may even make my top 3 in this series.
And I thought the de-aging was very well done.
I’ll wait until it’s on Netflix.
I would recommend watching it on the biggest screen possible and I doubt it will come to Netflix as it is a Disney film.
Well, I went to see at the local cinema. The Alice Springs cinema is surprisingly nice, so I was set up in a good frame of mind for it.
It was exactly what I was expecting and hoping for. They took Top Gun: Maverick’s playbook, and copied it; they had the advantage of having more material to call upon.
It’s like they drew up a list of Indiana Jones tropes, and wrote a B-movie script around them. The kid, the girl, the trains, guns vs whip, Nazis, snakes, traps in graves, and the obligatory call-out to a film not in the franchise. Did anyone else catch that?
It was shameless, but well done. Slightly less warmth overall than TG:M, but that was a classic.
Waller-Bridge…not the usual female in need of rescuing that the franchise usually has, but I thought was good, and clearly not as annoying as some. Ford was Ford; he could very easily have dialled that performance in, but I don’t feel he did. And the aging technology was amazing. I’d have sworn up and down they used out-takes from earlier movies for it if I hadn’t been told.
All in all, a decent way to spend Tuesday morning.
Well, I don’t think I could have guessed that ending if you’d given me a hundred tries. I enjoyed it a lot – good, and heroically daft, fun.