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Jings, Crivvens and Help Ma Boab

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Sturgeon has decided “That’s plenty”.

There are suggestions that she is the first major politician to become a casualty of the gender wars. Whatever, it’s a surprise. It’s comminly agreed that she could have been FM as long as she wanted.

I don’t really have any opinions on NS, except the fact that she’s both a woman and Scottish brings out the usual foam-flecked reaction from the usual types of Englishmen, but she’s clearly been a pretty big figure in UK politics over the last decade.

Thunks?

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1

Comments

  2. What are the “gender wars”?

    Surprised by this. Did she not see a way for Scottish independence to happen? Are there still repercussions from all that business with Salmond?

    • The trans issue/debate that that is tearing through progressive politics at the moment (as usual with such issues, almost no-one in the real world gives a monkeys). Half of the staff at The Guardian are still WFH because they are on the “wrong side”.

      NS must know she has run out of road with Indyref2. I support independence but the recent push has been a tactical mistake – if an understandable one. “Come on, we’ll never have a better chance than when Boris “Puir Fanny” Johnson is in Downing Street!”

  3. Am I wrong or this a very good day for Keir Starmer? Not only has the the SNP’s best known national face, albeit not a Westminster one, stepped down but it has pushed his effective ending of Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour parliamentary career out of the headlines.

    • @Gatz

      Given that he’s desperate to be seen as riding the party of the whiff anti-semitism associated with Corbyn and its more extreme left wingers, stories that deflect attention from the ending of Magic Grandpa’s parliamentary career are not good news for Starmer.

      They’re even worse news for him when the stories in question are focusing on the downfall of a figure whose support of the transgender lobby roughly mirrors his own.

      Absolutely insane that a group of people who account for roughly 1% of the the UK’s population are now effectively the country’s most powerful political lobbying group.

      • “Absolutely insane that a group of people who account for roughly 1% of the the UK’s population are now effectively the country’s most powerful political lobbying group.”

        Wait until you hear about the super rich.

        • The Tories are down to 1% in the OPs?

          Looks like their reign as “the world’s most successful political party”* is coming to an ignominious end

          *© Conservative Central Office 1901

      • And you are not event talking about the ERG.

        Some quite small lobbying groups have mastered their art, and the middle ground is getting pretty squeezed. It is not stable, which is not good for the country at the moment.
        I think it will only get worse as the Conservatives (and their media backers) cannot run on their record and so can only run on division.

      • While it is difficult to know what Keir Starmer’s views are on anything, he did not vote against the issuing of the Section 35 Order in Parliament to block the Scottish Parliament’s Gender Recognition reform bill. Hence I don’t get why you say his “support” of the “transgender lobby” mirrors that of Nicola Sturgeon’s.

    • ….”his effective ending of Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour parliamentary career” – is that a given? He’ll probably stand in his seat again, just not for Labour. Could he win it? I think he could.

      • I worded that carefully to be Labour parliamentary career because I think the same. Starmer clearly isn’t about to welcome him back, and given that Starmer’s position looks secure at the moment and Corbyn is 73 …

      • If Corbyn was confident of winning as an independent, I don’t think he would be so desperate to be reselected as the Labour candidate. He has opposed the party so often, that he should have stood as an independent of his own volition a long time ago– that would have shown the real integrity which some believe he has. He seems to ride on the back of the people who do actually work for the party. One of those people you meet in many large organisations, who complain endlessly about everything, but never have the courage to give up the regular salary and try something else.

        Perhaps he does have some personal support from his work as a constituency MP, but I don’t think most people come into contact with their MP, unless they have some local campaign or grievance, so it is unlikely to be high.

        I wouldn’t claim this is particularly representative, but in the 2019 election, a Labour canvasser came round and I told him I was in two minds about voting Labour, because of Corbyn and his generally weak character. The canvasser said he had been hearing a lot of that. Interesting, because he had just come from round the corner – which is in Corbyn’s constituency.

        • I don’t agree with Corbyn on everything (particularly not his response to the invasion of Ukraine) but I am one of those who believes he has “genuine integrity”. It was looking at his voting record that made me think so.
          (https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north/votes)

          Labour chief whip Nick Brown saw his opposition to the whip as a sign of his integrity.
          (https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-nick-brown-rebellions-blair-brown-strength-of-character_uk_58049770e4b0ee3352127fdd)

          As for giving up the regular salary, he was the lowest expenses claimant in parliament and, unlike some of his fellow politicians, doesn’t seem to have pursued big money since relinquishing his leadership.
          (https://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/local-council/21247443.islington-north-mp-jeremy-corbyn-countrys-lowest-expenses-claimer/)

          I’m sure he does have support from his work as a constituency MP, having held his seat for a pretty remarkable 40 years. The few people I know who live in his constituency like him and tell me he’s popular.
          Though I don’t doubt the canvasser you mention had heard a lot of negative comments about his character in 2019, given the amount of press dedicated to conveying that opinion.

          What I truly don’t understand is why “conservatives/right-wingers” (among both Conservative and the Labour supporters) are still so obsessed by the man. Surely his time has gone and he’s pretty irrelevant now?

          • In the year quoted, 2010, Corbyn actually claimed £108,000 in expenses for staff and office costs. They just didn’t fall in the period that was mentioned. Nothing wrong with that – his staff should be paid properly and have decent work accommodation. Last year he claimed £236,000 for the same costs. This story might be more the journalist’s angle than his, to be fair.

            I think we’ll have to disagree on Corbyn’s integrity. If he disagrees with a party so much I still think he should join another or form his own. But I would agree that he has had his day – Sunak keeps mentioning him as an attack on Labour, but I think he has already drifted out of most people’s view, a figure as remote as George Lansbury, another unsuccessful Labour leader (who was the grandfather of both Angela Lansbury and Oliver Postgate, which is impressive.)

  4. She has certainly had a stormy past six months but that’s nothing all that unusual for a head politician.
    It really does seem that, taking a lead from her NZ counterpart, she is just fed up/tired of the continued pressure and decided enough is enough. “I want my life back”

  5. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if a phrase rhyming with “mynancial forruption” starts being heard more frequently in the non-Scotch press pretty soon. While it’s obviously very entertaining that she thought she could steamroller the “sure let’s let rapists identify themselves into a captive pool of already-traumatised potential victims” business on sheer force of personality, and got pretty soundly humiliated in the process, I’m sceptical it has much to do with the stepping down. Suspect it’s far more prosaic and grubby, and am really hoping the nationalists spend the post-Sturgeon months comprehensively tearing each other apart. Good times.

  6. “The Trans-Rapist Furore” is a bit pathetic, if you ask me. Excellent headline fodder for the red-tops and an excuse for people offended by the very idea of transexuals.

    There is such a thing as segregation of prisoners, both for their own protection and for the protection of others, within the system. A trans-woman who is seen to be a danger to other female prisoners, can perfectly lawfully be segregated from them.

    There are habitually violent inmates in female prisons as well as in male prisons.
    They’re not all soft pathetic victim-types.
    I’m inclined to think that this particular prisoner is more at risk of being attacked by other prisoners, whichever gender gaol they end up in, than to be a risk to others.

      • While I’m not familiar with this particular story, I think you’re on to something here, Mike. I was under the impression that we, as a society, had reached a consensus some time ago that it was better to have rapists in prison where someone could keep an eye on them (and, if at all possible, they might be reformed) rather than out and about.
        Given that’s the case, I would also be surprised if the figures didn’t show that someone who is a convicted rapist and/or trans was more likely to need protection than pose a danger to others while inside..

    • No doubt both Sunak and Starmer are sharpening their daggers in readiness.
      Journo’s nationwide will be digging for dirt, or anything that will pass for dirt.
      Whether or not the missing dosh has anything to do with her, there’ll be some stabbing done.

    • Corbyn’s heart just wasn’t in it. The UK left are not really EU-friendly, though they may kid themselves that they are, purely because the Tories have chained themselves to Brexit and anything the Tories are for, they’re agin it.
      If Corbyn and the Labour left had managed to succeed Blair in government (fat chance then, as now) we might well have ended up Brexiting anyway.
      The EU’s political consensus is roughly a bit to the right of Social Democrat.
      A properly Socialist UK government, renationalising public transport, public utilities etc. would not be welcomed by the EU. It’s too tied into The Market, Big Banking and all the other stuff that goes with that.

  10. Well I shall miss her. She seemed a sensible sort who believed in what she stood for and had the wit and vocabulary to explain why.

    It’s not that often we get a politician ending their career with dignity. I do hope it stays that way and there are no snakes in the cupboard.

    I voted Yes in that referendum, and I was considering voting Yes in the next one. Doesn’t seem that will happen now. She’s left a big gaping hole in the middle of the independence movement, and short of Jack and Victor running for government (Scottish reference there, sorry folks) I don’t know if anyone else really has the same width of support and force of personality.

  11. Who was the Scottish guy, the one that died? Lib Dem I think. Anyway, she was kind of like him. Sharp, funny, and Scottish. Or Scotch, in his case.

    And no this is nothing to do with letting dick-havers into female-presenting prisons. It’s the mynancial forruption thing.

  12. She leads a single issue campaign group and gives that priority over her day job. She has, rightly, concluded that the Brexit disaster means that Scexit is off the agenda for the foreseeable. There is also, as hedgepig alludes above, a near-deafening flutter caused by a host of chickens coming home to roost.

    Fair play to her though, she was very good at not being Boris Johnson.

  13. Glad to see the back of her. The force of her personality and the controlling and rather toxic nature of the SNP made the Scottish media less quizzical than they might have been at times. There is a huge legacy of failures, one of particular interest to those of us on the periphery, being ferries. It really shouldn’t be that difficult to build a boat! Time for her to kick back and enjoy the Ferrero Rocher.

  14. I don’t have any time for people like Sturgeon or Farage. Nationalists selling sunny uplands snake oil on an empty prospectus. She’s worse in a way given her poor record in power. She’s good at grievance driven politics though, I’ll give her that.

          • The SNP version of nationalism couldn’t be further away from Farage &Co.
            In ordinary times, whatever they are, England votes right of centre. Scotland the opposite. Scotland voted firmly against Brexit.
            Whether or not an independent Scotland could actually stand on its own two feet is a moot point (an EU border with England, how would that work?) but roughly 45 to 50% of its population wants to be “a nation again”.

            • That’s precisely it. In the last ref, if I’d been allowed, I’d have voted to remain part of the union. Post-Brexit, however, I’d vote to leave the idiots in Westminster to deal with the after-effects of Brexit on their own.

              I do have some skin in the game as Mrs F was born in the Cairngorms, and we’re still planning on retiring to Aberdeenshire, whatever side of the EU border that becomes.

            • Scexit nationalism is not significantly different from the Brexit variety; it’s all the politics of othering.

              And just to be clear, in the (I think unlikely) scenario of a separatist majority, any “independent” Scotland would not join the EU.

            • Same shtick though. Stoke division, play to cultural stereotypes, blame the other side constantly, don’t define the result so people project whatever their sunny uplands happen to look like, deny reality/fake news, etc etc. It’s the dishonesty which winds me up.

              If there were to be another referendum, and I note the SNP are backing away from that idea at a rate of knots which suggests to me she jumped before being pushed, the terms should be negotiated first so it is very clear what people are voting for.

              • Yep. To paraphrase a comment I saw recently – if your foundational political belief is that your nation’s main issue is the neighbours, you can’t honestly call yourself progressive.

                However, as we’re seeing, it doesn’t take much to fool some people. Say “equality” or something a couple of times a year and plenty of sort of “lefty I guess?” people are happy to do your PR for you.

                • Ok, I’ll say it again (a Scot who still is not sure whether Independence is the right thing).
                  Scotland is a left of centre nation unlike Ingerland. We believe in social equality and a state that looks after us. As far away from Boris, Nigel, Rishi and the rest of those bastards as is possible. Scotland is indeed different to England. Whether we can both stay under the same Union Flag is open to much debate.

                    • I do indeed live in France. I am Scottish. Unless I go back and live there (a distinct possibility) I can’t vote in any Independence referendum. If I was able to vote I am still unsure as to my intentions although the possibility of eventually joining the EU would be the strongest of draws. And a tartan passport.

                  • There’s no real evidence that Scotland is any more of a ‘left of centre nation’ than England. It’s a country where someone can get stabbed for wearing the wrong football shirt in the wrong place. ‘Scotland’ may be different from ‘England’ but not more than Leith is different from Morningside – and somewhat less, I suspect, than the Western Isles are from Glasgow.

                    • I would say that comparing the Tory vote in England to the Tory vote in Scotland for the last few decades is strong evidence that Scotland is more left of centre than England.

                    • FPTP innit. The majority of people in England who have voted in every GE in England going back to at least 1974 have voted something other than Conservative. The closest the Conservatives have got to a majority was in 1983, when Thatcher hauled in 47%. Then there’s the 30% or so of people who never vote. So we are not all fucking Tories thank you very much.

                      Also, if you can find the times when England has elected a party that campaigned against equality and public services I’d be very interested. We voted for the wrong one, but that’s because we like the effects of socialism (free schools, health etc) but we don’t like socialists.

                    • I’m not saying all of England votes right of centre, I am saying that those who want to vote in England most of the time vote right of centre.
                      It’s the opposite in Scotland.
                      There’s also no doubt that the SNP attracts some weirdos, including the Wee Free, who think Scotland should be “free”.

                      ps despite her religious beliefs I truly think Kate Forbes is, unusually for a politician, a woman of principle.

                    • Unfair! Whatever one thinks of the Wee Free she sticks to her beliefs hence yesterday’s interviews – no fudging: “no to gay marriage, no to sex before marriage”. They’re all going to hell but Scotland will be free.

                    • Lodey.
                      Sorry it’s my default setting when politicians and principles are mentioned.
                      If she does stick to her principles and wins the SNP will be like those places that are ‘under new management ‘ and they always go one of two ways.

                    • “no to gay marriage, no to sex before marriage”.

                      I’ll wager she would never actually vote to make “sex before marriage” illegal, à la Sharia law. She’d instead be able to separate her religious beliefs from her duty of political representation. Clearly something she’d be unwilling to do for a particular minority group.

                    • Your wager would be won, Gary. Yesterday she was full of “my personal beliefs, wouldn’t force them on anyone”.
                      (That’s what she says now… once she’s Governor of Free Scotland there’ll be signs on the border with England proclaiming ” Straight married couples only, rest of you can go straight to hell.)

  15. I’d say that the fact that the leading contender for SNP leader – and First Minister – is a fiscal conservative who opposes same-sex marriage should put the tin lid on the notion that the SNP is a left-of-centre party. It is a single issue campaign group that will take whatever stance it deems convenient to take that single issue forward.

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