Just finished watching the Baz’ film. The two leads are both fantastic, can’t imagine that one of them won’t get an Oscar. Not enough early Elvis for my liking but talking of such things:
I think he’s still the biggest selling solo artist of all time (just ahead of Ed Sheeran?) and at one time the Hall of Fame would have had him alongside The Beatles and Dylan in the ”Rock n Roll Gods” section.
I know 47 billion people (I’ll check that figure later) still troop into Graceland each year and no doubt the film will help boost his sales for a while but, as far as I can tell, most young people I know (Hello, Maël!) rarely, if ever, mention him.
An Afterword Search reveals the last Elvis thread on here was Junior’s in 2016. I never much liked Elvis mainly because my elder brother adored him and then, of course, the Vegas Years. Saying that, I always thought he would be one of those artists whose reputation would never dim. I’m not after what you lot think of Elvis per se but whether or not you think I’m Wrong in thinking that in, say, twenty years time when the remaining original fans will have shuffled off, not many people will be playing Jailhouse Rock or Heartbreak Hotel?
Two for the show
I thought the movie was brilliant, and not just because of the two stars and the general Bazmatazz. I learnt quite a lot, particularly about his early life – for instance, I had no idea that at one point the Presleys were one of only four white families in an all-black neighbourhood in Tupelo. Or that Elvis and B B King were best mates. And for the first time I got an idea of the sheer power of his early performances – the scene where an audience of strait-laced young Southern women completely lose their shit when he starts wiggling his hips is both electrifying and hilarious. And the Vegas rehearsal scene is terrific.
Baz spent years researching for the movie, including moving into Graceland for a long stretch. This short doco, apart from being fascinating, shows how seriously he took it all.
As for the question in the OP, I have no idea I’m afraid. All I can say is that Mrs thep, who has given absolutely zero fucks about Elvis her entire life, was completely fascinated by the movie and insisted we sat down and watched a whole lot of YouTube videos when we got home. If the movie lives on, then Elvis will I guess.
The most untapped era of our “RAWWWKKK started in 1965 world” is Rock ‘n’ Roll.
The irony, of course, that the Beatles et al view that era, rightly, as being the best – Paul McCartney never regretted being born in 1942. Why on earth would he!
Maybe I should go and see this film.
Couldn’t hurt. It’s definitely one to see in a cinema.
Preferably in a cinema with good sound. Saw it in the former Olympic Studios which was well worth the premium price.
You should. Just be warned, it’s not reverent or true to life. Certain key moments and setpieces have pinpointedly accurate attention to detail, but on the whole it’s hyper – realistic rather than being a true reflection of the era. It’s very well done though, hard to actually put into words.
Don’t think he has generally been held in the same high esteem since about 1960. He (or his manager) ruined his post army career by making dozens of very poor B movies (with very poor soundtrack albums). And he was never subsequently rated as highly as those 60s acts who could write their own songs.
Of course he was popular with an aging fan base until he died, but they are all dead now or getting there.
Whether this film will produce a career revival of sorts remains to be seen
There’s no doubt – and this is one of the things the movie makes clear – that he was a much better musician than he’s ever given credit for. The malign influence of not-a-Colonel not-Tom not-Parker can’t be over-estimated. All the shit albums and shit movies stem from the fact that Parker was illegal and didn’t have a passport, therefore couldn’t allow his boy to tour abroad.
What did he achieve as a musician? He couldn’t write a song. Got a couple of co-credits for financial reasons. I haven’t seen the film, doesn’t necessarily mean it is showing the whole truth.
The stats are notoriously unreliable but Elvis is second only to The Beatles re album sales. As noted in the IP, he was once King of the World.
I think the film portrays an accurate picture of his life but,as always, approach biopics with caution. Great film does not necessarily equate to true film.
You’re saying singers can’t be classed as musicians, seriously? And the old chestnut about not writing songs?
Elvis was integral in the direction and arrangement of his songs, even if he didn’t write them.
Sinatra, as perhaps a more compelling example, was as serious a musician as any member of his bands or orchestras. Nelson Riddle or any collaborator would tell you that.
I classify musicans and singers differently and so do they in many cases, I heard Jim Kerr on a podcast recently declaring himself as a “non-musician”, am sure he is also involved in song arrangements
Frank and Elvis are musicians in every sense of the word.
People who make music = musicians.
The idea that singers aren’t musicians is reductive and offensive. Thankfully they don’t need the approval of armchair critics.
I can sing (not very well), would never call myself a musician though even if I can play the piano a bit and know a few chords on the guitar
I always think of a musician as someone who makes a living from music. Like a plumber makes a living from plums. Lots of people I consider musicians aren’t as good as me at playing an instrument (and I’m rubbish). But ultimately I’m in your differentiate-between-singer-and-musician camp. I think.
Plumbers make a living from their plums? That would explain why all my rude videos begin with women who need their pipes done admitting hunky guys with tools into their house..
Let’s talk about Ella Fitzgerald. She’s no Jim Kerr, I grant you, but if you think she’s not a musician to her fingertips because she didn’t write her own songs there’s no hope for you. Of course she ‘was popular with an aging fan base until he died, but they are all dead now or getting there’ in your immortal words, so it doesn’t matter anyway.
Wow. Having a bad day? No need to be so nasty
Wikipedia:
“Ella Jane Fitzgerald (April 25, 1917 – June 15, 1996) was an American jazz singer”
(Elvis is also listed as a “singer”)
She may well be a musician as well but primarily known as a singer. All I was saying is I differentiate “singers” from “musicians” who play instruments and write songs.
My other comment about fan bases dying out was a statement of fact nothing to do with wish fulfilment or whatever you think it was
Eric Clapton is listed as a guitarist, so presumably he’s not a musician either.
Sorry if you think I’m being nasty, but I find the hill you’ve chosen to die on incomprehensible.
Others agree with me here and even other singers say it. I think Michael Stipe is another one. So it’s not so incomprehensible, it’s just a different opinion to your own
»What did he achieve as a musician? He couldn’t write a song.«
Musicianship isn’t the same as songwriting. (I didn’t expect that I have to point this out on this forum 😉 …but perhaps you rate Ella Fitzgerald and Frank Sinatra as non-musicians.)
Mr. Presley basically produced all his recording sessions since his arrival at RCA (no, Steve Sholes didn’t do anything, as staff producer he just collected the money). Elvis’s involvement in arranging and recording the songs is well documented in the various booklets from the reissues, mostly from interviews with the musicians.
Unlikely to create a career revival for Elvis.
You know what I mean. Johnny Cash became hip a few years ago after his biopic
He was hip anyway, thanks to Nine Inch Nails, Rick Rubin and his one-second appearance on Paul’s Boutique.
He gained popularity before he died but that went up another level with young people when the movie came out
I thought the film was good but not brilliant. The two leads were excellent but the film was a little whimsical for no reason.
Regarding the OP yes I think EP will still be revered long after his current renaining fan base have shuffled off this mortal coil.
No, I don’t think you are Wrong.
In twenty years time Elvis will be as Tommy Dorsey, Bing Crosby, Guy Lombardo and Eddy Duchin are today. Played out from time to time on the nichest of radio shows, but that’s it. More talked about than listened to. His reputation is intact, as Fats Waller, Louis Armstrong and Duke Ellington are from the twenties – but revival? No.
Never trust a Hollywood biopic. They’ll have him capturing the Enigma Machine and inventing punk. Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard, and chitlin circuit types like Ike Turner and Johnny “Guitar” Watson are much more deserving than the redneck Jesus, as Elvis had great moments and miserable years. Screaming Jay Hawkins is far more deserving of the success Elvis had than Elvis himself.
I may well agree with you but not the point. Elvis not Jay was King of the World.
Whether he was a great “musician” or not, he was a brilliant singer, was white and was drop dead gorgeous. This all helped. He possibly could have become a decent actor too if he had worked on it and found the right material and director
I’ve got two out of the three, hasn’t helped me.
If only you were drop dead gorgeous
Keep your breath to cool your porridge and I shall keep mine to swell my song.
I have one
Utter nonsense differentiating between “singers” and “musicians”. Their voice is a singer’s instrument.
If they can bring something that is of themselves to your ears with their voice, then that is musicianship. Same as a guitar player with their own sound and way of playing.
If you can’t understand that, then you can’t understand what music is.
Cheers mate. These are all opinions, no need for snide comments (see above also)
I can’t speak for Dai, but I think that’s reading too much into the discussion. It’s not a question of understanding what music is or not, it’s just simple semantics. I agree that the human voice (and indeed the non-human voice, like lark, aardvark or vampire, for example) is musical, I just don’t think of it as an instrument in the same way as I do the glockenspiel, the wurlitzer and the electric toothbrush.
Apparently I know nothing about music, compared to all the other geniuses here I suppose
When my toothbrush is about to run out of power it makes a very EDM beeping noise. I’m pretty sure it’s intentional, and Philips factories are run by cheerful chaps with dilated pupils and shapeless smiley t-shirts.
Remember to check there’s no Triclosan in the toothpaste.
Bloody hell, if I didn’t have you lot to remind me I’d have completely forgotten the Triclosan Episode (TMFTL)
“you lot”? I think you’ll find I’m very much alone here in caring about your toothpaste. For some reason.
Oh, so you’re effectively my Triclosan sponsor. Expect a crisis call next time I’m in Boots.
I’ve no feeling for Elvis particularly but I would love to have been around to see him on TV doing Hound Dog or Jailhouse Rock the first time. Can you imagine what that felt like?
Though don’t you think most music fans have their moment of “I’d never heard/seen anything remotely like it before! I was completely enthralled!”.? For many of my father’s generation it was Elvis. For many of my generation it was the Sex Pistols. Similar “wowzas!”, I think.
I think Elvis was more of a shock and awe thing due to the contrast with what went before, that was so tame, at least in the mainstream. Pistols were another in a long line of WTF moments. Elvis was first with that.
There was Sinatra also in the 40s, but I guess that was more of a radio thing than television
Yes true. That was also a phenomen with girl fans driven crazy. Elvis was different because of the physical, sexual thing. A white man acting like a negro. Unprecedented and cultural shift. We all know that I guess.
“We don’t like Elvis? Nobody likes Elvis!’
See also JLS, who I don’t expect to meet in Job Centre Plus imminently.
Elvis is still huge – you not thinking much of him won’t change that.
To which “you” are you referring?
No, of course not. And this jabbing accusatory finger is me doing Air Doorbell.
By JLS I meant BLT or whatever those Korean gadgies are called. I think JLS, being an ex Simon Cowell act, are probably in the Marshalsea with William Dorritt.
See, I was merely puzzled not accusatory. Now, if we were standing in a real pub next to each other you would have seen me smiling ( and only then would you have walked away)
Oh, so you weren’t being accusatory about me being accusatory when I wasn’t being accusatory?
Actually the chance of me being able to say that in the pub is very small. We will just have to exchange looks of glaikit glassy-eyed gormlessness as a signal of shared understanding and leave it at that, before I fall through the bar Del-boy style.
Recently you have used “gadger” and “glaikit” on here. We would spell both differently in Aiberdeen but are these kind of words part of the Hull Posse’s everyday vernacular?
Well, if we interpret the Hull Posse as me and Mrs M, yes. She is from what she calls the north, and what everyone else calls Nearly Scotland, so there’s plenty of Auchenshoogle-speak in this hoose. Also, it’s all gadgies up there , as the actress etc
It’s BTS, m’lud. A modern beat combo.
The best Elvis era was with The Attractions
He thought he was the king of America.
This addresses the point of aging fan bases and collectability, albeit being 5 years old
https://www.theguardian.com/music/shortcuts/2017/may/07/elvis-presley-memorabilia-plummeting-in-price
Twenty years from now, young people (OK, ninety nine point nine percent of young people) won’t know what musicianship is at all. They will think ‘music’ is that vaguely pleasant sound that comes from your oblong.
Blimey!
He’s right, you know
There’s not much sound coming out of my oblong.
What’s that dry rasping noise?