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It’s a little bit stringy……

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A sideline discussion piece, really, triggered by @kaisfatdad and his big band thread. String quartets got a mention and set me thinking about the role of string sections in pop, rock, folk, jazz, even blues.(See the vid!) Done well it is glorious, with that glory more often exception than the rule. Think back to just about all pop music of the 60s, where a full orchestra was the norm, bolted on about as subtly and melodically as a fish nailed to a bicycle. So bad I still have a mortal fear of ranked violins in most settings. Yet, when done well, with nuance and care, not just replicating the main theme but louder, it is wonderful. The Walkabouts album with the Warsaw Symphony Orch, as mentioned by @fentonsteve , is one, anything orchestrated by Robert Kirby another. (Nick Drake) There is a Scottish violinist, Senaid Aitken, who I also rate highly for the string arrangements she can lavish upon music, adding way more than just volume. Look out for her name; I think she was responsible for the strings for AW favourite Gretchen Peters. Anothe name always guaranteeing great arrangements is Fiachra Tench, tho I haven’t seen the name recently.

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Comments

  1. The orchestrated blues is pretty dire, btw, lest anyone think it being recommended. I remember a classical loon at school, with the most expensive stereo set up I have still ever seen, who bought everything by Deutsche Grammophon on principle. He used to play the Siegel-Schwall blues concerto to show how hip he really was. He wasn’t.

      • I’d rather hear their “modern classical” than their attempts at pop/rock adaptations…sometimes it works – sometimes it’s “square peg in round hole” territory.

      • As you know I am a huge fan of Costello but I saw his tour with the Brodsky Quartet and it left me cold. I think they are dull and EC is delusional if he thinks the Juliet Letters had any merit . However I do really like North which has much better melodies and Still is a great love song

  3. Tony Visconti, a trained cellist, was rather good at this. I maintain the string quartet and Flo and Eddie backing vocal arrangements for T. Rex are his greatest triumphs.

    Cosmic Dancer is increasingly regarded as one of Marc’s best songs but the strings make it a wonderful record.

    • Such was my loathing of the bopping elf, I am sure I overlooked that. Any enjoyment of his songs, and that is my favourite, has come more from covere versions. Maybe I should revisit my prejudice? Why my hate? All those TOTP performances, with my mother always piping up with “who’s this” whenever he appeared, and I had to pretend I didn’t know, in case she thought it representative of what I liked. I also didn’t like all the Flo and Eddie caterwauling on so many TRex songs, altho I had to temper that opinion when I learnt it was the erstwhile Turtles, who I loved, and Mothers of Invention, who I pretended to love, vocalists.

      • He did a few good singles with T. Rex, but otherwise he was incredibly over-rated. I can’t decide what I hate more; his feyness; his materialism given the affected identity (“hey man, don’t touch the car”), the mannered weak vocals, or the “hippy Showaddywaddy” stuff. Covers are invariably better. I liked the recentish covers album a lot. Maybe this indicates he could write passable songs sometimes.

        • He was a pop genius. Metal Guru blows my mind. I do think more of a singles act than an albums one though, like many from the early 70s. I think his lyrics were generally pretty poor, but it didn’t really matter

    • Is it a coincidence that as Visconti was moving away from production and string arrangements, T. Rex albums gradually reduced in worth?
      (maybe Marc Bolan’s cocaine consumption and growing ego was also a factor)
      Electric Warrior – high point (string arrangements by TV)
      The Slider – commercial high point (string arrangements by TV)
      Tanx – still good, if a little laboured (string arrangements by TV, although there were fewer)
      Zinc Alloy – minor strings involvement from TV, and not in the same league as what came previously
      Bolan’s Zip Gun onwards – no strings, no real sales

    • Tony Visconti posted on FB that he thought the string arrangement on Now And Then was boring and that he should have done it. I’d probably agree. He has worked with Paul – on Band On The Run

      • He did a couple of fairly functional (IMO) arrangements for BOTR but he’s not a patch on George Martin, despite having Donovan-levels of self importance. Not sure what he would have improved with Now and Then’s strings

    • You’d think so, but I have to say her orchestral Lexicon of Love with ABC isn’t that great. Or rather, adds little but volume to the original fairlight washes of sound.

  5. When John Paul Jones (out of The Led Zeppelin Band) orchestrated a couple of songs on R.E.M.’s »Automatic For The People« he provided these songs with extra magic. The strings on »The Sidewinder Sleeps Tonight« are just wonderful.

    And we should mention Hannah Peel – her arrangements are usually pretty good and appropriate in a John Kirby kind of way.

  7. ELO did a lot of this (I suppose the clue is in the name? “Orchestra”), but never bettered the debut single 10538 Overture
    (other opinions are available, but they’re probably wrong)

  9. The Who have been touring (and still are I think) an Orchestral show.
    And why not – it’s another way of presenting the songs. I recall Rog getting quite excited about the prospect in his (generally disappointing) autobiography
    And they’ve done it before with Tommy and Quadrophenia

  11. A few top partnerships for me where the arranger is totally tuned into the artist:
    Paul Buckmaster – Elton John notably the eponymous album
    Wally Stott – Scott 1-4
    Bob Alcivar – Tom Waits the Foreign affair, Blue Valentine, One From the Heart period
    Vince Mendoza – Joni Mitchell’s later orchestral albums

  12. Gil Evans’ arrangements for Miles Davis, of course. I’m particularly fond of this one.

    Not very stringy, mind you.

    Nelson Riddle for Frank Sinatra when String-Heavy was required. Gordon Jenkins when a more brassy arrangement was needed.

  13. Jonny Greenwood, erstwhile lead guitarist, now spends more of his time composing and arranging strings. There are days, I believe A Moon Shaped Pool is Radiohead’s best album and there is very little guitar on it and only one solo.

    Burn The Witch

  18. Bluddy hell, how could I forget Tindersticks and their always sumptuous orchestrations. Best heard on Curtains, the strings arranged by their then violinist, Dickon Hinchcliffe, who, fun fact is the son of TV’s Kate O’Mara.

  19. Australian combo Hiatus Kaiyote made a call to Arthur Verocai in Brazil to ask him to do strings for this song with gorgeous results.

    Here’s Arthur doing his own music.

  20. The strings on My Life Story’s 12 reasons why I love her are exhilarating.

    “At the time of their debut single, “Girl A, Girl B, Boy C” (1993) produced by Giles Martin, son of George, the group had a regular line-up of twelve members. Though the membership fluctuated continually, it rarely dipped into single figures until 1999, when their third album credited just four regular members, though most of the former line-up were still used as session musicians. “C (wikipedia)

    Fascinating! I’m addng them to the playlist for the Big Band thread.

  22. Is there not a song that refers to “hearing strings” when one’s beloved walks into the room?

    I found this very catchy modern pop song but I am sure there are others

    Anyone got any suggestions?

    I’m thinking Cole Porter, Gershwin or Irving Berlin, but it could have been later.

    I just remembered that Charlie Parker (perhaps rather unexpectedly) recorded two albums with strings in 1950.

    They sold very well. And quite rightly too! His playing is gorgeous.

    Interesting to read it was Bird’s own idea not something the record company pushed him into.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Parker_with_Strings

  25. As this post lurches hamperwards, let’s bring in a name maybe less well known but whose additions are indubitably more heard. Wil Malone. Mean owt? He has a ridiculous cv encompassing everyone from Massive Attack and Faithless to Kylie and Take That, with a lot more besides. His best known work might be on Unfinished Sympathy.

  26. Other than Hubert’s Dissidenten track with those wonderful strings from the National Orchestra of Morocco, we’ve not really touched on the wonderful orchestras of North Africa and the Islamic world.

    Page and Plant sound magnificent backed by Hossam Ramzi and his Egyptian Orchestra.

    Youssou N’Dour travelled to Cairo to record the album Egypt with an Egyptian orchestra.

    And of course we must not forget the magnificent orchestra who played with Oum Kalsoum.

    Nowadays, the National Arab Orchestra have far better recording facilities.

    Any thoughts @Salwarpe? No pressure but if you have any favourites we should give a listen to, I’d love to hear them. I seem to remember that you’ve listened to a fair bit of North African music.

  28. That late, great, English rose who became a national treasure in France, Jane Birkin, had a great fondness for orchestras. And for the Serge Gainsbourg songbook.

    On Arabesque she rebooted his songs with a North African ensemble.

    In this clip she is doing them with a symphony orchestra. What she lacked in vocal resources, she made up for in charisma and rapport with her audience.

  29. Another favourite is Martyn Ford who arranged and played on a number of prog albums but notably Caravan. I think this piece is my favourite orchestral prog piece and dare I say one of the few that really works

  30. That’s a decent call. By and large, not that keen on old fashioned prog rock and orchestra, Deep Purple, Bloody Mues etc, but Caravan got way with it, as did Camel. I don’t think Procol Harum gained that much from the Edmonton mob, either.

  31. I just stumbled across this fascinating article about strings are used in film soundtracks. It gives all kinds of memorable examples.

    For instance, Bernard Herrmann’s “strings only” soundtrack for Psycho. Hitchcock had told him that he wanted no music at all. The composer changed his mind.

    And then there’s the soundtrack of Jaws. “When Williams first played Spielberg the now iconic two-note theme intended for cello and double bass he called the composer ‘crazy’.”

    https://www.thestrad.com/debate/strings-in-film-leading-screen-composers-discuss-their-use-of-the-broad-string-palette-/7623.article#:~:text='Strings%20in%20movie%20soundtracks%20are,of%20sound%20without%20excessive%20vibrato.

      • Great stuff @Sniffity. Those strings are splendid.

        But that certainly does not look like a fire engine of the future. And the telephone must have been an antique even back in 1966!

        Hermann had a long, very interesting career but Truffaut is probably the only European director he worked with.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Herrmann

        I suspect that FT’s admiration for Hitchcock’s films may have had something to do with his desire to work with Herrmann. This was what the French auteur had to say when Hermann and Hitchcock fell out over Torn Curtain.

        “in 1966, In Hollywood and elsewhere, it was the practice of the film industry to favor scores that would sell as popular records—the kind of film music that could be danced to in discotheques. In this sort of game, Hermann, a disciple of Wagner and Stravinsky, was bound to be a loser.” Truffaut writes that “Herrmann’s removal is a flagrant injustice, since it is a matter of record that his contributions to The Man Who Knew Too Much, North by Northwest, and Psycho had greatly enhanced the success of these films.”
        That wiki entry is excellent. The stuff I don’t know!!

        “In the mid-1960s, he composed the highly regarded music score for François Truffaut’s Fahrenheit 451. Scored for strings, two harps, vibraphone, xylophone and glockenspiel, Herrmann’s score created a driving, neurotic mood that perfectly suited the film.

        By 1967, Herrmann worked almost exclusively in England. In November 1967, the 56-year-old composer married 27-year-old journalist Norma Shepherd, his third wife. In August 1971, the Herrmanns made London their permanent home.”

        Here’ a very enjoyable interview with Wife no 3!

        http://www.bernardherrmann.org/articles/interview-herrmann/

        Her Hollywood memories are amusing.

        “It was a different world to me. Once, I was newly there and there was a ring at the bell in the early morning. And there was a phalanx of ladies with blue hair and Bermuda shorts and I wasn’t ready to receive them. Benny was working. I said: “Who are you?” “We are the Composers’ Wives Association, and the girls are very miffed you haven’t joined us.” I said I didn’t know about a Composers’ Wives Association and then I said: “What do you do?” And the front one came up to me and put her hand out and picked up a lock of my hair and dropped it in distaste. “Well for instance honey, we could help you with your HAIR.”

        • “And the telephone must have been an antique even back in 1966!”

          You can buy radios that look like old valve jobs with built-in wifi, among other features, so a retro-looking phone oughtn’t be too far out 🙂

          Have to admit that what really got my attention, when I first saw the fillum in my childhood, was that monorail. It was the future!

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poQ25pFXIRg

          This scene was filmed at a 1400m test track in France…it was only after seeing it a few times that I realised that the monorail car passing by is just the same car, going backwards and forwards to give the impression there are several.

          • The monorail is defnitely futuristic. But it’s remarkable how that station is in the middle of nowhere @Sniffity.

            According to that interview with Norma Herrmann, Truffaut spoke very little English, so it must have been difficult directing this film.

  36. The mentions above of bands who played with an orchestra, such as the Moody Blues, Procol Harum, Camel, Yes, Deep Purple etc got me thinking of who else I know who has done likewise.

    That reminded me of seeing Father John Misty at Roskilde in 2017. He had a very decent Danish chamber orchestra with him.

    Here’s a very good quality film of the whole concert.

    Anyway, that led me to this clip of a London concert, where FJM aka Joshua Tillman is singing the Songs of Scott Walker with the BBC Symphony Orchestra and doing a rather decent job of it.

    The guy who is talking about the gig was clearly very impressed.

  40. Given the kerfuffle elsewhere around that new Bill Ryder-Jones platter, I have it a listen. Good string arrangements, right enough. Gavin Bryars on string arrangements, no less, I gather. here’s a live bit, where he forgot to turn on his mike.

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