I’m spending the long weekend having a clear out. Tomorrow it’s the attic, but this afternoon I have filled a couple of boxes with books and DVDs and gone through my wardrobe selecting suits and ties for the local charity bins.
I used to like a tie to add a splash of colour to drab office wear and have dozens, almost all picked up for very little money from chazzas. My criterion for whether each was kept or added to the reject pile was whether I would be tempted to buy it if I saw it now. About 50 went in the pile and roughly the same number remain. God knows why I have kept so many though. Since the first lockdown more than two years ago I have worn a tie precisely twice, the black (or more precisely very, very dark blue) one, paired with a black suit, at funerals.
Even before lockdown I had more or less given up on suits for the office. I’ve kept a couple, even though unlike the ties I can barely fit into them now, but again I’m not sure why. On the rare occasions I’ve been to the office in the last couple of years the only members of the team wearing suits, or even ties, were the most senior. To be honest, when you haven’t seen people wearing suits for a while they look a bit … odd.
Are suits for men belong like lawyers’ wigs and gowns, specialist garb which is never worn out of context? Are they becoming the preserve of politicians and estate agents? And will it be a cause for any regret if they are?
Wearing a suit was a psychological thing for me – created a clear distinction between work and home.
Been back in the office at least once week recently, but not in the suit. Chinos pared with a proper shirt. Not sure I feel the need to go back to the suit now.
Although I have just had itdry-cleaned, just in case
I dress for ‘the office’ (in my garage) – black chinos and black polo-shirt – for the same work/home reason. I do wear carpet slippers in the garage, which I never did at work. I don’t think I own any other black clothes.
When I come back in the house of an evening, I change into blue jeans and a band t-shirt.
Mrs F and I went to a wedding a couple of weeks ago. I could still get the suit on, but had to empty the pockets, undo the waistband button and lower the flies zip before I could get into the car. Who are you calling a fat bastard?
Are you Steve Jobs?
I mean a Fred Perry-style polo shirt, not a roll-neck. Also, I’m not dead (yet).
Think I wore a suit once at the office. Sept 19th 1983. My first day at Thorn EMI Ferguson in Enfield. Had to wear a tie and smart trousers always there (2 years) but never since
I have precisely one black suit for funerals with one pair of black shoes. I’d be the first to admit I’m a bit of a scarecrow though, never being interested in fashion.
I had to wear a suit in my last job as a registrar at weddings, finished two years ago.
Bought myself a blue three piece tweed suit when I finished.
I like suits and ties as I otherwise look like 6lb of shit in a 5lb bag. But only wear them for formal events now, as I get away with black jeans and a suit jacket when doing assessment visits.
I won’t ask you what “assessment visits” are, because it sound like you work in….”waste management”.
Psych assessments in prisons and hospitals. When they can’t be done over video calls.
I haven’t had a suit for a long time, and can’t remember when I last wore a tie; I don’t own any, that’s what collarless shirts are for. All the jobs I’ve had had no dress code, though I never wore jeans in the office. Shirt, jeans, pair of Merrell walking shoes nowadays if going out, for work or pleasure. Working at home, its microfleece tops and ‘soggy pants’. Weddings, funerals, dressing-up = nice pair of trousers, shirt and waistcoat, with thirty-year old DMs of now indeterminate colour.
You mean “in the U.K.”, right? They’re not worn out here (Bangkok is different) and never have been. No office buildings. Government workers wear a uniform, bank workers wear bank uniform, monks wear monk uniform, teachers wear black trousers/shoes with a white shirt. I wore one to my Dad’s funeral, but that was the last time. I enjoyed some pretty stylish suitings in my time, always with a full Windsor knot in a silk tie, but those days are long gone, which I’m happy about. Watching ‘forties movies – which I do a lot of – makes me regret the passing of the suit and hat combo, but overcoats always looked horrible. Overcoats, eh? Still a thing over there in Blighty?
The old ARP greatcoat bought the bullet long ago courtesy of our northern hemisphere moth fauna, which is constantly starving. I do still have the splendid mid-green US Army Officer’s WW2 raincoat that I bought from a surplus shop in 1972, but it’s in the back of the wardrobe, unlikely to experience the daylight unless there’s some form of global cataclysm and I need to look like I have some sort of clue about what’s happening.
These days, if I want to wear a coat because its winter on this side of the planet, I have a choice of leather coats. A long black leather coat that looks like something Jason Statham would wear in a violent movie, and another long leather coat in dark brown that I inherited from my Dad, which looks like something Sean Connery would wear in a Bond film. Either way, once I’m sporting one of my leather coats, it’s blindingly obvious that I am a hard bastard and you speak to me at your peril. Perfect for dropping into stranger’s funerals, unchallenged, and pocketing the collection before nipping into the bookies on the way to the pub.
I used to have a long leather coat that made me look like Mike in a long leather coat. I flogged it because the skirts were so wide that I used to knock things off shelves in shops.
I still miss my Women’s Royal Army Corps greatcoat – that was stolen. It had bust darts and buttoned up the wrong way, but I looked supercool, allegedly.
I found this fantastic looking greatcoat in a Cardiff army surplus store in about 1990. Went down to my shins and looked super sharp, especially when done up. There was a green band on one of the cuffs that said Grenztruppen der DDR, or something similar, which I didn’t pay much attention to at the time. But later I realised that this had been part of the uniform of the East German border guards, including those guarding the Berlin Wall, and I started to feel uncomfortable wearing it in public.
CCCP T shirts likewise. Putin’s probably got a stash of them.
Don’t forget to take flowers.
I bought a very stylish blue overcoat a couple of years ago on a spontaneous whim, and it is great for going out in – perfect over Levis, a pair of brogues and a smart shirt. A bit of a 1965 mod look I’d like to think!
Thirty + years of working in an office, and I think I’ve worn a suit and tie probably half a dozen times. Got rid of two of the three I had in a lockdown clear out, along with half of my shirts and smart trousers. I have to wear one to a work thing in a couple of week, but I can’t say I’m looking forward to it. Surely jeans and a Bowie t shirt is suitable for all occassions?
Last bought a suit – and wore it – at my daughter’s wedding. She marched me off to M&S.
I was never a suit and tie boy in my publishing days, although I occasionally wore one when I had to pretend to be a grown-up publisher, eg to make a speech at book launches.
The marriage progression: first one, morning suit; second, natty Take 6 corduroy suitings; third, Hawaiian shirt and jeans.
I hope you found this as interesting to read as I did to write.
My marriage progression: Lord John pinstripe, flared of trouser. Second, disposable picked up at a street rack on the Ave. de Clichy (much like my second wife, now I come to think of it). Third, Hawaiian shirt and jeans. Hmm.
Its an opportunity to buy one expensive, groovy suit which may be a bit much for a staid office, but great if you want to cut a dash at a nephews wedding or similar. Unfortunately I did just this a couple of years ago, looked great on the occasion if I say so myself, but now too fat to wear it.
This business about getting too fat to wear an old suit is a nonsense. It is a well-known fact that the waistband of a trouser left to hang for any length of time will naturally crimp up.
Why do men wear braces instead of a belt?
Andrew Neil wears them so he can look like a hard-bitten newspaper guy.
Bobby Ball wore them so he could do his “Rock On Tommy!” catchphrase.
Paul Nicholas and Leo Sayer wear them to appear quirky/jaunty.
Apart from these noble exceptions…why?
Allegedly they’re more comfortable once the waistline disappears along with the 6-pack. I’ve occasionally toyed with them but never really got along with them.
Pretty certain they’re a “characterful” affectation, much like a sweater or jacket draped over the shoulders, or sunglasses on top of the head, or a loosely-knotted scarf.
I won’t ask this again – got an overcoat? Wear one? Know somebody who does?
I’ll bite.
Don’t like belts as I don’t like the constricting feel about the waist, I do wear braces but hidden under the waistcoat and jacket.
I have an overcoat, had to get rid of my Crombie though as it got the moth.
My wife bought me one of those Michelin man puffa jackets, had to return it as I was never going to wear it. Got a different one but prefer to wear the overcoat.
What’s the difference between a coat and an overcoat? Aren’t all coats overcoats? I have loads of nice winter coats and jackets. All given to me, second hand but good as new. However, my absolute favourite item of apparel that I own is one of the few items in my walk-in wardrobe that I bought myself: a coat I bought from Alcott. Lovely ’tis and I look very handsome in it, as you can probably imagine. But is it a coat or an overcoat? I have no way of telling.
Not if you’re painting the shelves they aren’t. I thangyew.
I have a cheap knockoff Crombie, which looks cheap in good lighting and is thus seldom worn. That’s the only coat I might possibly wear over a suit or a smart jacket. That to me is what an overcoat is. I have a few other winter coats and a light waterproof coat, but they don’t ever get worn over jackets.
I am one of nature’s natural scruffs and have never liked wearing a suit. Or a tie. Fortunately, I’ve never had to wear a suit and tie for work. Last year I had to get rid of my good pinstripe suit (suitable for both weddings and funerals) as it no longer fitted. When I needed a smart suit for my nephew’s posh wedding, I hired one from Moss Bros.
In conversation with jazz saxophonist and writer Simon Spillett last night, as he was leaving after a superb gig, someone admired the light beige raincoat he put on over his smart mid-grey suit.
He said he’d bought it cheap many years ago and that it somehow always looked too clean.
He remarked that he’d been told by someone in the past “Never hire a man in a a clean raincoat. He obviously lacks soul.”
What about a famous blue one?
Or the one that won’t ever let you down?
Or a concrete one?
You got a light, Mac?
Mr Spillett rarely appears on a stage without suit and tie. I think that, because the style of jazz he plays is of the era when musicians were always Suited and Booted, he likes to project that image.
Short neat hair, grey suit, white shirt, narrow black tie, polished black shoes.
@Gary
You fotgot topcoat
And indeed greatcoat
🎼 “Topcoat” – The indisputable leader of the gang. 🎼
Here we go – Singalonga-Afterword!
Top Cat!
The most effectual!
Top Cat!
Who’s intellectual!*
Close friends get to call him “T.C.,”
Providing it’s with dignity!
Top Cat!
The indisputable leader of the gang.
He’s the boss, he’s a VIP, he’s a championship.
He’s the most tip top,
Top Cat.
Yes, he’s the chief, he’s a king,
But above everything,
He’s the most tip top,
Top Cat!
Top Cat!
(*poss. “whose intellectual … close friends …)
Despite the words Top cat appearing innumerable times in every episode, I always.remember how the BBC announcers used to call the show Boss Cat to avoid advertising a best-selling brand of cat food
The original performative cringe from the Beeb.
Imagine if they’d commissioned more programmes with similarly challenging names:
Children’s favourites ‘Bounty the Talking Horse’ and ‘Harpic The Clown’, hard-bitten drama ‘Detective Hotpoint’, charming surreal cartoon ‘Fairy Persil and the Elves’…. etc etc
We always though it was unnecessarily spineless of them – they even printed ‘Boss Cat’ in the Radio Times and everywhere else they licensed the schedule information – because it simply drew more attention to the naming clash.
‘Detective Hotpoint’ sounds brilliant, I’d watch the shit outta that.
Does it ever come up on Talking Pictures?
I preferred his faithful sidekick, Sgt Bendix
No. I’ve got a pea coat though, it comes about halfway down my trim thighs. It’s all the overcoat I’ll ever need, not that I’ve ever felt the need to wear it. I got it in a chazza in Faversham for a tenner – brand new, still had the tags on it with a price of 250 quid. I’ll never understand chazzas.
I have more overcoats than suits. It gets cold in the Winter. Each has its own hat. Being bald, I lose 110% of my body heat through my head. I have a long torso and short legs. I look daft in anything shorter than knee length.
Besides, you need an overcoat to skank like The Clash did to their support act Mikey Dread back in the day.
I’ve had an overcoat for so long I can’t remember buying it. It’s dark grey with a faint herringbone and perfect for a winter commute, though I don’t have to do that any more so it’s been in the wardrobe for quite a while now. I like it with a bright scarf – red wool or silk paisley.
Sounds magnificent, Twang. A bright scarf is essential.
The silk one was made for me by my mum with a piece of silk from Macclesfield which is where we lived back then. Macclesfield being the centre of the silk industry, or used to be.
At my first works medical, the nurse got her measuring tape out:
“5 feet 10 inches tall, 31 inches inside leg. Long back and short legs. Typical Caucasian.”
“But I’ve never been to Corsica!” I replied.
The rest of the medical was conducted in silence. I’ve never cracked a joke in a medical establishment since.
I have to wear one twice a year for conferences. Striding around vast hangars or along lengthy walkways between staff offices and meeting rooms, a suit is a surprisingly easy and straightforward thing to wear, looking reasonably smart without much effort. My only complaint is that either shirts have been designed not to fasten the top button any more, or I’ve developed a bull neck after 10 years of lifting groceries and small children up 66 stairs to our penthouse suite – it’s almost impossible for me to wear a tie without looking like a Derwent Enterprises Executive, dammit!!!
I’m of average height but quite wide in shoulders and neck, so I hear you. There are many sites online who will make a custom-fitted shirt…
Damn it twice round the carpark and back!
They were good – damned good, damn it. “Same game, different rules.”
I haven’t worn a tie since leaving school. And not just cos I’m an anti-conventionalist rebel who never grew up and stuff. I genuinely find them silly. Very silly indeed. A decorative piece of string that has somehow become representative of smartness, for some bizarre reason. (Also, I don’t own any proper shirts, only T-shirts.) I have got four very nice suits though. Especially the Prada one. All four were given to me by friends or neighbours. Out of pity, I guess. Haven’t got any proper shoes to go with them, unfortunately.
You are James “Sonny” Crockett. Do you still roll up the sleeves of your jacket?
He rips the sleeves off all his clothes for that wifebeater vibe.
I don’t like wearing ties.
I don’t like that tight, constricting feeling of something tied around my neck.
It’s like I’m being throttled or something.
I can’t believe that I wore one every day at work between 1986 and about 2004.
This is my take too. It is beyond me how these multicoloured nooses, serving no practical value,
have survived so long.
But survive they will. Even now, Rees Mogg is drafting an amendment to the bill to reintroduce imperial measures, making the wearing of ties compulsory in a variety of settings, including when wearing full hi vis, under a jolly T shirt if at national sporting events and probably while showering too.
Don’t forget the top hat.
Top hat! The indisputable…
[This one’s already been done Jeff, stop wasting everyone’s time. Mod Team]
Oof, harsh.
Wear a shirt that is the correct size, and voila!: it goes round your neck the correct amount! Crazy, I know!
But seriously 🙄 the tie will therefore not strangle you and will also look far better.
My very first performance review (in 1993) went rather well, at least form my managers perspective. He had good things to say. Unfortunately the only thing I remember is the comment that his boss (Technical Director no less) added at the bottom which simply said “looks scruffy”. I remember on my first day I was informed that I was “the only person in the building not wearing a tie”. I didn’t know it was required and I only owned a black one I bought for my grandpa’s funeral. So, I wore it for about 3 or 4 months in combination with the 2 shirts I owned. Fortunately one of the admins took pity on me and took me along to the Harlequin Centre and helped me buy some suitable shirts and matching ties. I have to admit it did boost my confidence but it did reinforce the whole work/non work persona thing with me. I felt like I had to somehow leave my private self at the door on the way in and pick him up when I left work. My career didn’t really take off until I realized I didn’t need to do that.
I have the suit I was married in now and a ‘sport coat’ (as the Americans like to say) which I actually rather like. Usually pairs with some smart jeans and shoes. Don’t wear it often. Couldn’t wear a suit every day, especially in the summer.
I rarely wear them, and the one I had went to the charity shop as it was too small/tight now, but I do quite like the feel of a good quality one when worn out of choice rather than formality. Tie worn loosely of course. Relaxed smart casual, so to speak. Same with a nice outdoor weatherproof coat in winter.
So the general opinion is that they were already obsolete among most of us, if we ever wore them regularly at all. Do you have any opinion when you do see men wearing them? As I mentioned in the OP they look a bit odd when you stop being used to them, although I’m sure the same could be said about any clothing. It doesn’t help that few men wear a suit with the elan of Cary Grant, and many of us look more like Worzel Gummidge whatever we wear.
I’m interested in the idea of the work persona that some mentioned too. I never really experienced that, though I did notice I got called ‘sir’ a lot more often in shops when I wore a suit. It may be because I didn’t wear one regularly until I was nearly 40, having worked in bookshops before that (Gap was my friend for relaxed but presentable work wear then). When I started wfh in lockdown I did wear a ‘proper’ shirt for work at first, but abandoned it pretty quickly. These days I only put on trousers if I’m going to leave the house.
Parklife!
I haven’t worn a suit since mid 2018 when I was in a contract job. Now I am 99.9% of the time on Zoom I wear a t shirt and jeans or possibly an open neck smarter shirt if I’m presenting or something. I liked wearing a suit though. Nice suit, pressed trousers, polished black shoes, well fitting suit, ironed shirt and silk tie. Smart. Probably part of my imposter syndrome hangup. I liked getting home and removing the uniform and donning the knackered jeans and t shirt I live in the rest of the time. The stresses and strains of work seemed to go with it.
Ties are the one way blokes can differentiate themselves in a sea of blue suits. I was a sober-ish patterned guy – dark red or blue or maybe a cheeky purple with a polka dot or fine check. If they are too tight etc, get a shirt which fits and learn to tie your tie properly and you’ll be fine.
I do like a suit and quite fancy one for casual wear, though I can’t, off hand, think of any occasion where I’d wear it. Maybe to the local jazz club. Jazz and a nice suit go well together.
This was the image if you wanted to portray a city gent.
Whither the bowler hat now?
If you see someone wearing one now they look decidedly odd.
Or they’re dancing the Morris!
Cripes – that’s some lughole he’s got. Can’t stop looking at it once you know.
he can pick up Skysports on them.
That’s actually Sir Frederick Radar, whose first job after coming down from Oxford was to sit on the cliffs of the south coast and listen out for incoming enemy aircraft. Well, he soon got tired of that and, wartime being the mother of necessity and all that, he quickly invented binoculars.
After that, the rest was, as they say, all history.
Editor’s note: The technology which came to be known as ‘Radar’ was actually invented by Frederick’s brother, Wilfred Radar, from whom he was separated at birth. It’s surely no coincidence, though, that both boys benefitted from a Classical education.
Bowler Hats you say?
Suits are probably becoming a niche item for most men, and will soon — 20 years or so — only be used for formal occasions. The easy way to look smart is the Stanley Tucci look: dark open-necked shirt and light-coloured trousers, or vice versa, and a separate jacket. That also makes it easier to upgrade your wardrobe over time without looking dated.
Don’t wear suits or ties and haven’t done for a good number of years now. I have quite a number of work shirts that will largely dispose of when I retire. A few years ago on a business trip to USA to see one of my biggest customers (a multi-national pharmaceutical giant) I was politely asked not to wear a tie as they thought it was intimidating.
When I kick it I don’t want any suits.ties or black clothing. Fuck that.
Stoped ties in 2003 and stopped proper shirts at lockdown, as scrubs became the thing. Now I have invested in long sleeve thin wool polo shirts in grey, blue or black, when it is cold, and long sleeve T shirts in the same colours for when it is hot. A waistcoat is enough jacket, tho I have some tweed for when it gets really chilly. I have a pure cashmere black overcoat, bought in a sale in New York, with a matching fedora, neither of which are getting as much wear as I would like . Dead smart are they!
Of course, I also have my ceremonial tartan, hunting Matheson, for when that is the thing.
I’ve never understood the concept of the suit and tie being smart. Maybe as an ‘outfit’ for a special occasion when effort has been applied but most people that wear suits and ties to work always seemed to look like they’d woken up in it! I’ve worked in offices for 40 odd years and I’ve always worn jeans (I did have a brief stint of wearing a jacket but tempered any smartness by adorning it with a kids sheriff badge).
I’ve also always worked alongside fellow engineers so, even though most of the time we’re sitting on out backsides, we have to be ready to lie on our backs to move some cables around or plug some stuff in so jeans are a sensible choice. I think my motto of ‘never trust an engineer in a suit’ has rarely let me down. They’re rarely willing to get their knees dirty.
New graduates always seem to wear suits for the first week and it’s never seen again. The last suits I owned was sold on Ebay unworn after about 15 years because it had ‘gone out of fashion’! Now, if I need a suit, I’ll hire one.
“New graduates always seem to wear suits for the first week and it’s never seen again”
This rings a bell. I turned up on day 1 of my pre-registration job wearing my interview suit (three piece, chocolate-brown chalkstripe, jacket nipped in at the waist, slight flare in the trouser). Jacket off, white coat on, I was set to work in the manufacturing unit. Later that morning, one of the old hands told me never to wear a suit to work.
– Why not?
– Because at some point, you’ll tip a kilo of staining ointment down your front and the trousers will be ruined. You’ll be left with the jacket.
Separate jacket and trousers from that point on, until I retired.
Further to the Good Engineers Never Wear A Suit theme, splashes of solder flux melts holes in the groin/thigh region of suit trousers.
Of all the excuses…
Sounds painful…
You can spot an elderly Electronic Engineer in a crowd of men wearing shorts. He’s the one with small burn marks all over his lap.
I say ‘men’ because there are, like AWers, very few women EEs.
and what better place than The Afterword to discuss men’s fashions?
I’m terrified by how rebellious Afterworders are. Nice also that they all have jobs where they can choose what to wear.
Yes. There are still quite a lot of men in jobs where suit and tie are mandatory. Also women who are required to wear jacket, blouse and knee-length skirt.
I think the only job in Italy where suit and tie are mandatory is Estate Agent, for some weird reason. Can’t think of any others.
One thing I really liked being back in UK this weekend was seeing school kids wearing uniforms. Adorable.
*police sirens*
Unfortunate confession from someone whose boardname is Gary
“Boardname”? Are you inferring that it’s not my real name? How dare you!
Another thing I thought was really sweet was people saying “thank you” to the bus driver as they get off the bus. I love that. Something I’d completely forgotten about.
All that glitters is not gold.
I have three Italianesque knapkins. If I am ever going to be surprisingly shot in the back of the head whilst dining I am prepared.
Do you carry your knapkins in a knapsack?
Faleri falera
Faleri falera ha ha ha ha ha ha
Faleri falera
Beautiful. Like the Cocteau Twins, only better.
Every day I walk past our local ‘gents outfitters’. Its the sort of place where most of the sales are probably to people going to a wedding, or on a cruise, with a sideline in country tweeds ( it being a market town in a rural shire) Everyday I see a number couples looking in the window. The most common scene involves a woman unsuccessfully trying to interest a male partner in the smart clothes in the window. Most of the men Look as if they are wearing someone else’s clothes that they found down the allotment, or picked off the floor at JD Sports.